Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[RobDoc]

So does 'good faith' mean we just trust the timeshare company with no explanation required.

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Many in this thread have already tried to provide "reasonably available evidence" along with corresponding FL law and DVC documents.

If that "reasonably available evidence" does not coincide with another DVC Member's personal level of comfort there are other options available.

 

[freediverdude]

This thing about DVD (or whichever body does this) being able to change the POS to anything they want, apparently without being required to notify us, to me is more concerning than a one time reallocation.

I know we all have a certain trust with Disney, but you should never give anyone carte blanche, even a family member, lol. So I'll have to see what their reaction is to this, and think about it and make a decision about continuing. Their explanation to this will tell me a lot about whether to continue trusting them.

 

[hakepb]

I don't understand if the purpose is to push people to 2 bedrooms. Most people booking especially the studios would not even need a 2 bedroom, so it's not going to accomplish that. I'm at least partially not buying that theory.

There needs to be balance in a points system.
The system needs some that will only stay in a 2BR, as much as it needs people that would only stay in a studio.
The 60 day availability seems to mostly have 2BR+ availability, so there might be an imbalance in the DVC system.

A lot of old-timers talked about using a 2BR as a family of 4. Buying OKW at $50/point with minimum 250 point contract for $12500 made staying in a 2BR relatively affordable.
But now DVC is trying to sell $200 points in resorts that need 400 points for a week in a 2BR ($80000 contracts) ... they probably messed up the balance.

Anyway, I almost start wondering about a SSR standard 2BR with these new charts..when I used to be staying studio and 1BR.

 

[DSLRuser]

DVC have published the new point charts for 2020 and many members have been negatively impacted. This caused many of us to go and (re)read the POS and possibly discover that the reallocation done may not be legal in its current form.

How can you help?
Members reading the DISboards and informed about what's happening are a very small minority of the membership base. I am ready to bet that most people don't even know that the 2020 charts have been published, let alone that a reallocation happened.
So it is important to raise awareness in any way. Please post on Twitter, Facebook and other social media a link to this page. If you belong to any other forum or Facebook group, please post a recap of this post. Send a letter to the press. I have had a journalist interested in the topic and he's going to contact DVCMC management for an official position.

LOL....this is funny. NO I wont help. Disney can do what they want with points. Anyone who bought, listened to the sales pitch, and read the documents would understand that.

Plain and simple. Supply and demand. there is too much demand for studios and even 1 bed rooms, and not enough for 2 bed rooms. So you make studios more expensive to lower the demand. seems very natural and part of the intended design of DVC.

My suggestion is to buy more points instead of wasting time and money with lawyering up for something you have no chance at winning.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

LOL....this is funny. NO I wont help. Disney can do what they want with points. Anyone who bought, listened to the sales pitch, and read the documents would understand that.

Plain and simple. Supply and demand. there is too much demand for studios and even 1 bed rooms, and not enough for 2 bed rooms. So you make studios more expensive to lower the demand. seems very natural and part of the intended design of DVC.

My suggestion is to buy more points instead of wasting time and money with lawyering up for something you have no chance at winning.

LMAO!!! There it is folks. With a nice little red bow on it just a few days late for Christmas.

 

[DSLRuser]

LMAO!!! There it is folks. With a nice little red bow on it just a few days late for Christmas.

just saying the truth.

disney....in theory could take do what ever they want with the points as long as the totals dont change.

legally...it is within their power to do so.......and yes....it is all designed to get you / us to buy more points. the free market will bear what the free market bears. until people stop buying contracts, disney will keep milking the system to get people to buy more then small contracts.

 

[Madame]

it is all designed to get you / us to buy more points.

Yeah. That’s a problem. Charts should NOT be manipulated in order to sell more points. If that is the case, then there exists a conflict of interest between DVC & DVD.

 

[DSLRuser]

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered or I'm missing something obvious but what is Disney really gaining by the reallocation? Aren't DVC rooms operating in the high 90% occupancy range already? They can't just create more points to sell on a property and they don't gain anything by making us spend more points for fewer nights.

no...they cant create more points....but....if trends show families are only buying 75 point contracts so they can stay in a studio for 6 days a year......they can reallocate points to make it so you need at least 100 points for the same studio.

in the long run....those with large contracts who already can afford 2 and 3 bedroom units....they get a little discount.....or more for your money.

I see this as a win for everyone.

people will think twice about going so often...more points would get banked...making it easier to find rooms at 7 months

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

just saying the truth.

disney....in theory could take do what ever they want with the points as long as the totals dont change.

legally...it is within their power to do so.......and yes....it is all designed to get you / us to buy more points. the free market will bear what the free market bears. until people stop buying contracts, disney will keep milking the system to get people to buy more then small contracts.

If that were true then it definitely would be an issue.

 

[DSLRuser]

Yeah. That’s a problem. Charts should NOT be manipulated in order to sell more points. If that is the case, then there exists a conflict of interest between DVC & DVD.

Then i suggest you design and build a vacation club and run it the way you want to run. Disney answers to share holders...not vacation club owners.

sorry...not trying to be a jerk...just the facts here

 

[skier_pete]

I have to say I've really enjoyed this thread - while I myself still red flag the (mostly) raising of 1-bedroom point requirements via the lock-off premium that make me want to call "Shenanigans" on Disney, I can now see the other side of the argument that they are trying to rebalance to more 2-bedrooms and lower costs in magic season. Perhaps the feel was this could not be done by simply shifting points from 2-beds to studios, and therefore they had to shift some to 1-beds.

I still say that raising lock-off premiums is shady business.

 

[Jerry5788]

Yeah. That’s a problem. Charts should NOT be manipulated in order to sell more points. If that is the case, then there exists a conflict of interest between DVC & DVD.

The conflict has always existed - you are just being more aware of it now. They are also not selling more points these resorts are mostly sold out. Resales get more demand and you see more consolidation of points and less turn so probably increases the value or stabilizes it as the economy slows. Could also be because Riveria will come at BWV points chart - wouldn't that be awesome!

 

[skier_pete]

Then i suggest you design and build a vacation club and run it the way you want to run. Disney answers to share holders...not vacation club owners.

sorry...not trying to be a jerk...just the facts here

Wow. Are you a Disney executive? That's only a step from "Screw the buyer - only Disney matters."

This is good corporate think - but there's a point if you ignore your customers badly enough - they WILL desert you. (Let's talk to American automotive industry about "who cares what our buyers think".)

 

[Jerry5788]

Wow. Are you a Disney executive? That's only a step from "Screw the buyer - only Disney matters."

This is good corporate think - but there's a point if you ignore your customers badly enough - they WILL desert you. (Let's talk to American automotive industry about "who cares what our buyers think".)

At the end of the day the point chart change and maintenance change does not change the economics of owning DVC. Unfortunate change yeah but they are within their right. Disney has over 52 million people visit them a year it would take more of a structural brand shift to really become the automotive industry.

This more just sheds the corporate governance risk of owning a DVC timeshare (or any timeshare really). Which owners should have already been aware of.

 

[glamdring269]

At the end of the day the point chart change and maintenance change does not change the economics of owning DVC.

How does it not change the economics of owning DVC if you now get less days than you did before? With higher maintenance fees?

 

[glamdring269]

One thing I find interesting is how this could bite Disney a bit on the park end of the equation.

Example:
Someone who may have previously afforded 5 nights a year in a studio can now only afford 4. That’s potentially 1 less day a year of guaranteed people in the parks and spending money while on property.

 

[Bing Showei]

Plain and simple. Supply and demand. there is too much demand for studios and even 1 bed rooms, and not enough for 2 bed rooms. So you make studios more expensive to lower the demand. seems very natural and part of the intended design of DVC.

Your response is devoid of an understanding of the central issue that people are taking exception to, namely that 2BR demand is not lower than 1BR demand; that in fact 1BR is consistently the among the last rooms to book up, but DVCMC still raises the prices on the one one bedrooms... contrary to your simple understanding of the supply/demand model.

Plausible theories expressed in this thread behind the push to 2BR has NOT been based on a simple supply/demand issue, but rather a shift in DVCMC policy to move the membership towards higher point contracts and potentially a minimum LOS that would, in theory, benefit the system as a whole.

As fun as it is to tell people to go pound sand, perhaps you should spend a little more time understanding the issue members are taking with this shift absent any clarification from DVCMC. Otherwise, stating that DVCMC has no responsibility as a fiduciary agent and is in fact an agent of Disney Corp, who’s sole mission is to leverage DVC to raise dividends, you’re conceding that these actions are in fact a violation of the very POS that you said we should all read.

 

[Jerry5788]

How does it not change the economics of owning DVC if you now get less days than you did before? With higher maintenance fees?

It changes the economics but not drastic enough that it blows it out of the water. The case can still be made to own DVC - albeit less but still works.

I agree the lock-off premium is bad change but glad that DVC offers lock-offs as it allows more studios to exist than would normally. I think people would be more mad if DVC decided to do construction and change the room layouts. That is another way they can push people towards bigger contracts and bigger rooms but would be much more worse for studio holders

 

[ParkHoppers]

It is interesting that even though it seems that 1 bedroom book after 2 bedrooms there are more 2 bedrooms available in the inventory after say the 7 month window. Can we flesh this out a bit to understand what is going on here. Thanks in advance.

 

[hakepb]

One thing I find interesting is how this could bite Disney a bit on the park end of the equation.

Example:
Someone who may have previously afforded 5 nights a year in a studio can now only afford 4. That’s potentially 1 less day a year of guaranteed people in the parks and spending money while on property.

But now a studio can get (91) families with 4-day stays vs (72) families making 5 day stays per studio. The 5th day is a cheaper, less profitable ticket.
At Disneyland, they stopped selling 6+ day tickets, they want a new family in the parks vs a longer stay.