Worried about Pre-school

[maznorm]

I have 2 kids, DS almost 4 and DD almost 3. I'm looking for a pre-school for them to start. Unfortunately, it looks as though they are both going to be in same school year. This has concerned me since I found out. However, there is more to it than that.

DD is a very energetic child. She has never, and I mean never sat still in her life. We have to restrain her when absolutely necessary (just holding her tightly). Even when I was pregnant with her she was constantly moving. The nurses never managed to get an accurate heart bbeat from her when I was carrying her which results in many trips to the hospital. When she was born they struggled to weigh her accuractely also.

She cried for the first 10 months of her life, solid. She slept roughly 2 hours a night and that was broken.

Now she is doing a little better and she sleeps, albeit mostly getting into our bed in the night, for around 5-6 hours.

When I say sleep, I really mean pass out. The other day she fell asleep with her head hanging off the sofa mid stunt.

We have recently joined a family gym to try to focus some of her energy somehow. We put her in a class of kids her age, including DS, that was about running around and kicking balls and stuff. DS enjoyed it but DD just ran around the tennis courts until one of the instructors had to come and fetch us. The worst thing is because DD was running DS thought it would be fun as well. This is what I worry about with pre-school. If they are together she will be running around and DS, who I really think will enjoy school, will be lead astray with her.

The rest of that day continued as follows. She ran arounds those tennis courts for about 20 minutes. Then I took her into a play area until DS had finished. Then we took them both swimming. Then back to the play area for half an hour.

DS fell asleep in the car on the way home after eating some sandwiches. DD climbed out of her car seat (which is as tight as can be), so we had to pull over 3 times. Then when we got home she jumped on our bed until 2am in the morning, when she passed out. She was up at 5:15am the next morning.
This is an average day for us. I was really hoping that joining the gym would help her.

I really am worried that she is going to make it difficult for DS. I am also worried that the teachers won't be able to cope with her and I'll be getting phone calls at work telling me to pick her up.

Swimming has helped a little. We have been several times this week and the day after she is a little calmer. But it is not a massive change by any means and we can't go swimming every single day. I think it helps because it burns out her energy a little and she can't run in a swimming pool so she has no choice but to focus.

Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle this situation when they start pre-school? Even when we have looked around pre-schools, the kids there are just not the same as her. They are sitting and listening, not climbing up the walls and throwing things around.

Also, she still isn't talking or potty trained because I can't seem to keep her focus enough.

 

[indimom]

I have 2 kids, DD almost 4 and DD almost 3. I'm looking for a pre-school for them to start. Unfortunately, it looks as though they are both going to be in same school year. This has concerned me since I found out. However, there is more to it than that.

DD is a very energetic child. She has never, and I mean never sat still in her life. We have to restrain her when absolutely necessary (just holding her tightly). Even when I was pregnant with her she was constantly moving. The nurses never managed to get an accurate heart bbeat from her when I was carrying her which results in many trips to the hospital. When she was born they struggled to weigh her accuractely also.

She cried for the first 10 months of her life, solid. She slept roughly 2 hours a night and that was broken.

Now she is doing a little better and she sleeps, albeit mostly getting into our bed in the night, for around 5-6 hours.

When I say sleep, I really mean pass out. The other day she fell asleep with her head hanging off the sofa mid stunt.

We have recently joined a family gym to try to focus some of her energy somehow. We put her in a class of kids her age, including DS, that was about running around and kicking balls and stuff. DS enjoyed it but DD just ran around the tennis courts until one of the instructors had to come and fetch us. The worst thing is because DD was running DS thought it would be fun as well. This is what I worry about with pre-school. If they are together she will be running around and DS, who I really think will enjoy school, will be lead astray with her.

The rest of that day continued as follows. She ran arounds those tennis courts for about 20 minutes. Then I took her into a play area until DS had finished. Then we took them both swimming. Then back to the play area for half an hour.

DS fell asleep in the car on the way home after eating some sandwiches. DD climbed out of her car seat (which is as tight as can be), so we had to pull over 3 times. Then when we got home she jumped on our bed until 2am in the morning, when she passed out. She was up at 5:15am the next morning.
This is an average day for us. I was really hoping that joining the gym would help her.

I really am worried that she is going to make it difficult for DS. I am also worried that the teachers won't be able to cope with her and I'll be getting phone calls at work telling me to pick her up.

Swimming has helped a little. We have been several times this week and the day after she is a little calmer. But it is not a massive change by any means and we can't go swimming every single day. I think it helps because it burns out her energy a little and she can't run in a swimming pool so she has no choice but to focus.

Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle this situation when they start pre-school? Even when we have looked around pre-schools, the kids there are just not the same as her. They are sitting and listening, not climbing up the walls and throwing things around.

Also, she still isn't talking or potty trained because I can't seem to keep her focus enough.

Is your daughter the almost 4yo or almost 3yo?? (Your post first called both children DD, so I wasn't sure.) Have you considered having her evaluated? Particularly if this is the almost 4yo. I don't want to scare you or throw out on-line diagnosis, but you listed three red flags: CONSTANT physical movement/the inability to "sit still" even for short periods of time, not talking, not potty training. Just being busy or just not potty training wouldn't worry me, but those cobined with a biggie "not talking" sounds like she may need some assistance. If this is the almost 3yo, this is less worrisome, but even at that age, she should be talking to some degree.

Assuming that this is NOT an issue, (maybe you are just frustrated right now or didn't really mean "not talking") could you find a preschool with more than one classroom where they could be seperated? Or (I know this is a transportation nightmare, but I'll throw it out there) take them to completely different preschools. I know in my town we have a couple preschools within four blocks of each other. A parent could probably swing drop off and pick up at both if their job is accomodating/flexible. Or maybe one of the children could be transported by a friend/family member? If you were talking about the almost 3yo, you could also elect to hold off a year, and put her in pre-school next year. Some people really stress about this, but it's not that big of a deal, even if it means waiting for K until they are 6. Most preschools I know of require the child to be potty trained, so this may be an issue as well.

Sorry I couldn't be more help, hope things work out for you and your DD.

 

[maznorm]

Thank you for your response. She is the almost 3 year old. I mean she is 3 in 3 weeks.

I know what you mean about red flags. People mention these to me all the time.

As for not talking when my DS was 2 we spoke to a community helper about him as he was not talking. We eventually ended up getting speech therapy and last summer just before he turned 3 he started talking after a lot of work on ours and the speech therapist's part.

Now, DD didn't say anything other than baby jabber when she was that age but as we knew what to work because of DS we haven't consulted a speech therapist about it. However, now she is nearing 3 and not talking I am a little concerned. She communicates and has recently starting saying "Mummy" and "Areyouok", said as one sentence. Other than that she talks in jabber. It is not that she is quiet or non communicative (sp). We just don't seem to be able to hold her attention long enough t help her to talk the way we did with DS.

Potty training wise, she has sat on the potty once or twice but never done anything in there and to be honest she doesn't sit on it long enough to do anything.

We are in the UK, so next September (not this coming one) is when they will both be starting school. I have been considing holding her back as I can't see it working. I thought that maybe just me not giving her enough credit but she is the same with everyone. Actually she is a little better with me than others as she will occasionally sit on my knee as long as she can move around bit. She really struggles with being seperated from me and when she is left at my grandmas or my mother in laws (which is where they go when DH and I are at work, both work full time) she screams for at least an hour.

My grandma lets her play in the garden where she just runs all day and she is ok doing that, but my MIL keeps them inside all the time except for a short walk and she finds DD to be really hard work and often says that she can't keep having her.

These are the people that will taking them to pre-school so having the kids attend different schools is really something I'll need to discuss with them.

She loves dolls and they do manage to hold her attention so she is capable of holding focus, if only on them. I have tried sitting with her and talking to her and playing with her dolls but she just throws them and runs off when I do that.

I just don't know what to do for the best and how we can help her.

 

[The Hendies]

It is time to begin looking into some solutions. Yes, a professional evaluation, but also, start tracking her food intake including artificial dyes, additives, etc. From what you are describing, she isn't so far away from target behavior, but you'll want to have a better sense of where she is headed before long. Keep up your patience, sounds like you'll need it!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I really think you need to have your child evaluated. I am not trying to be mean but that is not typical behavior. Even for that age. Start with an evaluation and go from there. Good luck.

 

[maznorm]

Thanks for the responses so far.

We have started to track her food habits, but to be honest if she had a choice she would live on bread and fruit. She has never really been into junk food and the closest thing to it she eats is fries on occasion.

She does love fruit juice however, so starting tomorrow we are going to get everyone to stop giving it to her for a week and see how she goes from there.

I am also trying to get her to concentrate for short periods. So far this only works in the swimming pool because she has no way of getting away and she does focus a little in the pool.

I don't think you're being mean. I really am trying to establish if her behaviour is normal or not. Every bit of insight is helping. I think part of the problem is that when DS wasn't talking at aged 2 they made me feel like he could have something seriously wrong with him because he wasn't talking at that age. That is why I wasn't so worried about DD not talking at that age but now I'm not so sure with the rest of her behaviour combined.

 

[Julia Says]

I could have written your post, except that I have a boy. We have a folder just for pictures of DS asleep (or more accurately, passed out, as you said) in weird places/positions. I had to have a c-section with him and the doctor had to stand there and wait because he was moving so much. As an infant, he would cry All.The.Time. It was awful. He weaned himself from the breast at 5 months, and the bottle at 7 months, because it was easier to sit up and look around with a cup. He refused to lay down.

I don't want to scare you, but I feel the need to tell you this. My son was diagnosed with autism a few months after he turned 4. He is 5 now and about to start Kindergarten. He can't be in a regular classroom because he requires special assistance and very specific teaching techniques. He has been in a preschool program for special needs kids for the last 2 years and has thrived! He still has very little functional language, but he managed to sit through 15 minute circle times by the end of this year (it took 2 full school years to get there!).

My son sleeps a lot more now, because he takes melatonin. He takes a full adult dose every night (as directed by his dr). There is a Rx that some autistic kids take for sleep issues, but his doctor won't prescribe it.

I don't know how it works in the UK, but please get your DD evaluated. It took us a long time to get into a specialist (over a year, and I live in a major metropolitan area) and as hard as it was to hear the word "Autism," I wish we could have been doing appropriate therapies sooner.

As for school, I would think about holding her back a year, especially if your kids would be in the same year. Holding back a kiddo with a late birthday is pretty common here in the US, but I don't know about where you're at. However, if there are programs that she could be in through the school, I would start her as soon as she is eligible- every day makes a difference for my son.

I wish you much luck.

ETA: Here is a list of symptoms from the Mayo Clinic.

 

[MSSANDRA]

I am a preschool teacher and do see a lot of red flags. One point to mention is that different people care for her on a regular basis. Some children do not handle that well and react strongly to it. I strongly recomend elvaluation. In the us she , at 3 , would fall under your district school for evaluation but not sure about where you live.

The preschool situation might be a blessing. I can not image a school not allowing her to remain in the two year old class. Most schools will not allow a untrained 3 year old in the 3 year old program anyway and it sounds like she will not be able to handle a three year program.

Getting her into a preschool should also open up some means to testing and evaluation as they should be able to guide and refere you.

I agree that putting them both in the same classroom would be a bad idea even if she did not have issues.

Blessing and prayers that you can find some answers.

 

[maznorm]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. What you are saying sounds exactly like DD, I still can't imagine her sitting in a circle for 15 minutes straight though. It's great that your son is getting the help he needs. It sounds as though he is really making progress.

I have to say though, we went through all of these thoughts with DS as well with regards to his speech and I know his speech therapist was very concerned, especially as he had started talking and then stopped. Then all of a sudden he started talking and he just kept improving. With that, he also became more sociable towards others and now he is a happy, well adjusted and sociable little boy.

After reading the Mayo Clinic info, I'm not sure DD has many of the symptoms. Granted, she barely talks, rarely sleeps and is always moving, but she is very affectionate although usually only towards me. That said, I have known her to give almost every family member a kiss and a cuddle. Yesterday, at the swimming pool she kept going over to a man there with his kids and trying to kiss him.

I just keep wondering if I do need to speak to a professional about her behaviour or I just need to call Supernanny to tell me what I am doing or not doing to cause her to behave this way.

ETA: Mssandra, you must have posted at the same time as me. Thank you for replying. I agree that the fact that different people care for regularly may be making things more difficult for her. Especially regarding her speech etc. I am trying to get everyone that cares for her to work together to help her but it has been hard. I think I will give pre-school in seperate classes a try. Maybe the consistent routine will help her rather than hinder her.

 

[Sadie22]

I do believe that thorough, professional evaluation of each child is important if that has not already been done. As far as having them in the same classes, right now your DD does not sound ready for preschool. When she is ready, make every effort to have your children in different classes.

I know of one set of fraternal twins (girls) whose parents had one start kindergarten but waited a year to enroll the other so that they would not be in the same classes. The second child had some problems which manifested in academic difficulties and the parents did not want her to constantly compare herself to her sister. This worked well for this family.

 

[Srackangast]

My son was like this at this age, except for the speech. He talked a mile a minute. His ended up being sleep deprivation. He just would not sleep and then came the endless energy. One being fed by the other. He also couldnt take some meds(allergy) as they added to the problem. He had to play hard to sleep at all. He eventually got a little better. He is now 14 and still doesnt sleep great and can be very grouchy without it. Melatonin is great to help and lots of exercise also cut all sugar. My DS is also very intellegent, you think hes not paying attention and not hearing but he has proved us wrong many times.

 

[Julia Says]

It is entirely possible that your DD is just a bit of a late talker, and hyper. I am by no means a doctor (nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ). I think you just have to ask yourself, "What harm would it do to speak to a professional?"

The lack of sleep and constant movement seem like sensory seeking behavior to me. We thought DS just had some sensory issues and a speech delay when we took him to be evaluated by the school district. We were seated behind a 2-way mirror to watch the eval, and we were shocked at the things he did in that room that we had just never noticed before- but we noticed afterward. It's hard to explain. But I never knew what to look for, either. I wish I had seen a list like the one from the Mayo Clinic long before I did.

My son is very affectionate with me, and has just recently started latching on to his Daddy more. But he gets a lot of sensory input from us, in the form of hugs/squeezes and tickles. He doesn't really care about other people. He has had to switch speech therapists several times, and it never bothers him. And believe me, he still doesn't sit still for 15 minutes at home! He only does it at school, where they have a very set routine, and his original goal was something like 2 minutes- it took a lot of work on his teachers' part!

It honestly doesn't sound like a discipline problem, though. I keep going back to the sleep pattern and activity level- that's just not something that is taught. If she were staying up until 2 and sleeping until 10-11 am, I would suggest working on a new bedtime routine, but it just doesn't sound to me like that's the issue.

 

[maznorm]

Thanks so much "Julia says". I used to think that kids that behaved this way were just naughty children with lazy parents. Awful, I know but what did I know.

The more you say about your son, the more it sounds like my DD, which scares me. No offense intended, it's just Autism is a scary word for parent. A view I am sure you will appreciate more than others.

I think I will try to get her in to see the one doctor at our practice who is good with kids. We don't have pedeatricians here, just general practitioners who see everybody. I just don't really know what to say when I walk in there, but he will probably get what I'm saying when she starts climbing out the window or finding a tight spot under the desk or something.

 

[tinkerbelletreasure]

I want to echo what the others have said! I have a non verbal just turned 3 year old who is just starting a developmentally delayed preschool in a few weeks. We have reason to believe he may just be a late talker because his sensory and social problems are pretty mild compared to the standard Autism and Aspergers profile, but the earlier you get intervention, the better the chances they can catch up or learn to assimilate with their peers! My son has had a home therapist for 6 months and has made remarkable improvement in just that short amount of time.

 

[mjkacmom]

Please call your health department or school system and have her evaluated! As a parent of two ADHD kids (one confirmed and medicated, one suspected), she sounds way more hyper than my boys, and the lack of speech is alarming (ds7 had no speech at 18 months and had weekly ST). As someone certified in special education, I know that if she qualifies for services, the early she gets intervention, the better the outcome.

 

[mjkacmom]

Okay, after reading your other posts, PLEASE get an evaluation ASAP. Don't wait until next month if you don't have to. It really does sound like your dd is going to need a lot of help. I'm very surprised her doctors haven't said anything, and doctors here are usually very conservative in situations like ADHD, autism, etc.

 

[h518may]

Another though is sensory processing disorder.

My DD is 4 1/2, she sounds just like your DD except she sleeps more. Some of the reason she sleeps more is we have learned ways that work for her. For me to get her asleep I hold her still until she falls asleep, if I let her get herself to sleep it takes her hours.

Also most kids with Autism have some degree of SPD, but not every child with SPD has autism. SPD also shows up a lot in children with ADHD.

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/ has a checklist.

I would never say she has this, but it is a thought, and if it is SPD an OT can help you find things to help calm her. As for swimming we even thought of using Aqua therapy with out DD for OT.

I hope you can find some answers before preschool.

 

[bellarella]

Oh wow. I'm sorry you are going through this.

I totally understand your concern with having a label attached to your DD's behavior. The thing to remember, though, is that she is who she is. Getting her diagnosed will in no way "make" her anything that she is not. What it will do is put you on the path of getting her the services she may need to reach her own potential.

Comparing your son's progress at age 2 with your daughter's at age three isn't really a good baseline. At 2 there is still a lot of variance in communication skills. While professionals start getting concerned then, they do so out of an abundance of caution, knowing that a number of children are just on their own time schedule. By age 3, though, there is a much narrower range of "normal" on communication skills. At this point, getting your daughter evaluated would be an excellent first step. The sooner you do it the better. The earlier she can work with the proper professionals, the better the outcome, and the easier it will be for her to transition to school and interact with her peers.

Again, I know how scary labels are, but it can often help to remember that they really don't change anything. They just give names. You're dealing with the scary part now. Knowing is empowering.

Good luck!

 

[Dr_Finkelstein]

Contact your Health Visitor rather than your GP intially (your GP will more than likely refer to HV anyway). Your daughter should be due an assessment about age 3 anyway.

Your HV should assess your daughter, will refer to Audiology to check there is no hearing problems, then will probably refer to Speech and Language Therapy. They'll also more than likely start off (with the GP) a referral to Community Paediatrics to assess behaviour.

I'm from the UK (Scotland), but shouldn't your son have started his ante-pre school place at his 3rd birthday?

Maybe it's totally different in England (but pretty sure it's not), but they shouldn't be in the same year at school. Your son should start the year before his sister, at about age 5.

 

[MyDizneyBoyz]

I totally understand your concern with having a label attached to your DD's behavior. The thing to remember, though, is that she is who she is. Getting her diagnosed will in no way "make" her anything that she is not. What it will do is put you on the path of getting her the services she may need to reach her own potential. ...
Again, I know how scary labels are, but it can often help to remember that they really don't change anything. They just give names. You're dealing with the scary part now. Knowing is empowering.

Ditto this! She is who she is and having a label or diagnosis for her behavior is a GOOD thing as it will help you plan the best way to help her reach her potential.

We all want our child to to be the perfectly normal, average, neighborhood kid. But sometimes they're not and that's when we need to accept that they are who they are and start knocking on doors to get them the tools they need to flourish. You are your daughter's best advocate.

Schedule an evaluation and see what they say. If it comes back with a diagnosis of a sensory issue or some varying degree of autism, you give yourself time to mourn the loss of your dream of having a "perfect" child and then you give that beautiful girl a hug, take a deep breath, and start learning new ways and gathering new tools to help her flourish.