Rutt and Tuke
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ITA that the policy should be abolished.
will the draft be reininstated?
- Thread starter Arabella Figg 2003
- Start date
ITA that the policy should be abolished.
My2Girls66
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This came from Congress.org
Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005
There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.
$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.
The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.
Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.
College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft.
The public has a right to air their opinions about such an important decision.
Please send this on to all the friends, parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, and cousins that you know. Let your children know too -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change!
Please also contact your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and contact newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.
Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005
There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.
$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.
The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.
Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.
College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft.
The public has a right to air their opinions about such an important decision.
Please send this on to all the friends, parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, and cousins that you know. Let your children know too -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change!
Please also contact your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and contact newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.
AirForceRocks
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Earlier in this thread there is a link to snopes that debunks this silly story. You might want to go take a look at it.
ToriLammy
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Congress.org is not an official government website.
Congress.org allows users to:
Identify and contact elected leaders in Congress, the White House, and state legislatures
Post letters online in Letters to Leaders and read what other Americans are saying to elected officials
Create and post Soapbox action alerts to enlist others on your issue.
Have letters printed and hand-delivered to Congress (there is a fee for this Extra Impact service)
Find and contact local and national media by ZIP code or by state with Media Guide
Have your representative's votes sent to you weekly via e-mail with MegaVote
Search alerts and take action in the Issues and Action area (contact Capitol Advantage to get your organization's alerts on Congress.org, Yahoo!, MSN, AOL and more sites).
Congress.org allows users to:
Identify and contact elected leaders in Congress, the White House, and state legislatures
Post letters online in Letters to Leaders and read what other Americans are saying to elected officials
Create and post Soapbox action alerts to enlist others on your issue.
Have letters printed and hand-delivered to Congress (there is a fee for this Extra Impact service)
Find and contact local and national media by ZIP code or by state with Media Guide
Have your representative's votes sent to you weekly via e-mail with MegaVote
Search alerts and take action in the Issues and Action area (contact Capitol Advantage to get your organization's alerts on Congress.org, Yahoo!, MSN, AOL and more sites).
My2Girls66
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Thanks for the info. I assumed it was their site.
It doesn't make sense to send people that don't want to fight off to war. I for 1 couldn't fight. Hopefully- after this- this kind of mess won't happen again.
Make Love- Not War
It doesn't make sense to send people that don't want to fight off to war. I for 1 couldn't fight. Hopefully- after this- this kind of mess won't happen again.
Make Love- Not War
AirForceRocks
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Where in the world do you get the idea that people that volunteer for the military WANT to go fight in wars? Be willing to do something and wanting to do something are two totally different things.
My2Girls66
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Excuse me! I'll should have said willing.
I don't agree with this war so I would not be willing.
I don't agree with this war so I would not be willing.
AirForceRocks
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Then you're right, you would never make it in the military.
jennyanydots
<font color=blue>'Their behavior's not good and th
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I found this:
BTW, the military is using stop loss orders to keep people in the military and not pushing them out. See http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...un17,1,2049220.story?coll=la-headlines-nation
On June 2, the Army announced a so-called stop-loss order that extended the enlistments of thousands of soldiers by up to 18 months. Stoner and Ponciano canceled their flights home, went to see their supply sergeant for a new consignment of gear and prepared for another tour of combat duty.....
The stop-loss order - which Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has referred to as a "back-door draft" - prevents soldiers from leaving the Army if their unit is within 90 days of deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan. Soldiers also must remain on active duty for 90 days after their unit completes its scheduled yearlong combat tour. The Army Reserve and National Guard have been under a similar order since 2002......
"There's no doubt the Army is stretched thin today," said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va. "But I think the real question the stop-loss order raises is, how voluntary is the all-volunteer force? The whole notion behind an all-volunteer force is that people commit to a certain tour of duty" - and both enlistees and the military honor the commitment.
The U.S. military, facing a more tenacious insurgency than it had anticipated, had planned to reduce troop strength in Iraq this summer to 105,000.
Instead, the Pentagon will increase it by 5,000 soldiers and Marines, to 145,000. In addition to the stop-loss order, the military has maintained its ranks by tapping into the National Guard and Army Reserve and extending units in Iraq beyond their yearlong tours.
Also see http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/24/104815.shtml (Dawnct's favorite sourse)
Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year....
On June 2, the Army announced a so-called stop-loss order that extended the enlistments of thousands of soldiers by up to 18 months. Stoner and Ponciano canceled their flights home, went to see their supply sergeant for a new consignment of gear and prepared for another tour of combat duty.
"Todd was real depressed when he called to say the Army wasn't going to let him out," Stoner's father, Ken, said. "He had plans for college, plans with his girlfriend. But he'll go with the flow. What I don't understand, though, is if we're so short of manpower in a volunteer Army that soldiers can't get discharged, why don't we have a draft? I don't like a draft, but maybe we need one."
The stop-loss order - which Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has referred to as a "back-door draft" - prevents soldiers from leaving the Army if their unit is within 90 days of deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan. Soldiers also must remain on active duty for 90 days after their unit completes its scheduled yearlong combat tour. The Army Reserve and National Guard have been under a similar order since 2002.
Army commanders did not cite a manpower shortage as a reason for the order. They said the rationale for delaying retirements and other discharges was to ensure the Army had "cohesive, trained units going to war together." In the Vietnam War, units often were more or less patched together with soldiers who did not know one another.
"There's no doubt the Army is stretched thin today," said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va. "But I think the real question the stop-loss order raises is, how voluntary is the all-volunteer force? The whole notion behind an all-volunteer force is that people commit to a certain tour of duty" - and both enlistees and the military honor the commitment.
The U.S. military, facing a more tenacious insurgency than it had anticipated, had planned to reduce troop strength in Iraq this summer to 105,000.
Instead, the Pentagon will increase it by 5,000 soldiers and Marines, to 145,000. In addition to the stop-loss order, the military has maintained its ranks by tapping into the National Guard and Army Reserve and extending units in Iraq beyond their yearlong tours.
BTW, the military is using stop loss orders to keep people in the military and not pushing them out. See http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...un17,1,2049220.story?coll=la-headlines-nation
On June 2, the Army announced a so-called stop-loss order that extended the enlistments of thousands of soldiers by up to 18 months. Stoner and Ponciano canceled their flights home, went to see their supply sergeant for a new consignment of gear and prepared for another tour of combat duty.....
The stop-loss order - which Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has referred to as a "back-door draft" - prevents soldiers from leaving the Army if their unit is within 90 days of deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan. Soldiers also must remain on active duty for 90 days after their unit completes its scheduled yearlong combat tour. The Army Reserve and National Guard have been under a similar order since 2002......
"There's no doubt the Army is stretched thin today," said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va. "But I think the real question the stop-loss order raises is, how voluntary is the all-volunteer force? The whole notion behind an all-volunteer force is that people commit to a certain tour of duty" - and both enlistees and the military honor the commitment.
The U.S. military, facing a more tenacious insurgency than it had anticipated, had planned to reduce troop strength in Iraq this summer to 105,000.
Instead, the Pentagon will increase it by 5,000 soldiers and Marines, to 145,000. In addition to the stop-loss order, the military has maintained its ranks by tapping into the National Guard and Army Reserve and extending units in Iraq beyond their yearlong tours.
Also see http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/24/104815.shtml (Dawnct's favorite sourse)
Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year....
On June 2, the Army announced a so-called stop-loss order that extended the enlistments of thousands of soldiers by up to 18 months. Stoner and Ponciano canceled their flights home, went to see their supply sergeant for a new consignment of gear and prepared for another tour of combat duty.
"Todd was real depressed when he called to say the Army wasn't going to let him out," Stoner's father, Ken, said. "He had plans for college, plans with his girlfriend. But he'll go with the flow. What I don't understand, though, is if we're so short of manpower in a volunteer Army that soldiers can't get discharged, why don't we have a draft? I don't like a draft, but maybe we need one."
The stop-loss order - which Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has referred to as a "back-door draft" - prevents soldiers from leaving the Army if their unit is within 90 days of deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan. Soldiers also must remain on active duty for 90 days after their unit completes its scheduled yearlong combat tour. The Army Reserve and National Guard have been under a similar order since 2002.
Army commanders did not cite a manpower shortage as a reason for the order. They said the rationale for delaying retirements and other discharges was to ensure the Army had "cohesive, trained units going to war together." In the Vietnam War, units often were more or less patched together with soldiers who did not know one another.
"There's no doubt the Army is stretched thin today," said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va. "But I think the real question the stop-loss order raises is, how voluntary is the all-volunteer force? The whole notion behind an all-volunteer force is that people commit to a certain tour of duty" - and both enlistees and the military honor the commitment.
The U.S. military, facing a more tenacious insurgency than it had anticipated, had planned to reduce troop strength in Iraq this summer to 105,000.
Instead, the Pentagon will increase it by 5,000 soldiers and Marines, to 145,000. In addition to the stop-loss order, the military has maintained its ranks by tapping into the National Guard and Army Reserve and extending units in Iraq beyond their yearlong tours.
AirForceRocks
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Senator Kerry's protestations aside, stop loss is most certainly not a "back door draft". Everyone that enlists knows that enlistments can be extended at "the convenience of the government". If a person chooses to enlist knowing this, then they can hardly cry "foul" and "draft" when it happens.
As for the newsmax piece, just because you're quoting it doesn't make it any more reliable than when DawnCt1 quotes it. A radio talk show host is their source for an impending draft? Please.
As for the newsmax piece, just because you're quoting it doesn't make it any more reliable than when DawnCt1 quotes it. A radio talk show host is their source for an impending draft? Please.
jennyanydots
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It's nice to have the perspective of someone who's actually serving in the armed forces.
But what if the government can't recruit enough replacement troops? What then?
AirForceRocks
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Before they institute a draft, they'll do what they've always done when recruitment is lagging - they'll offer bonuses to enlist, pump up benefits, etc.
kbeverina
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I've lived minutes from Quantico, close enough to Fort Belvoir, Pentagon, etc., for 11 years--have tons of military friends all over the world (you make a lot of them when they move in and out so much). Not one is in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm puzzled by the idea that we're running out of troops to serve in Iraq.
Lisa F
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Also a stop-loss is not an indication that the military is stretched too thin (as the article seemed to imply) or that a draft is looming. I know when my husband was due to separate from the inactive reserves right around the time of Kosovo, he received a stop-loss order and obviously at that point the military was not considered to be stretched too thin nor did a subsequent draft occur.
It does seem both prudent and like standard procedure for the military to put the brakes on trained soldiers leaving the military while the US is involved in a conflict where they could potentially require their services for longer than was previously anticipated.
It does seem both prudent and like standard procedure for the military to put the brakes on trained soldiers leaving the military while the US is involved in a conflict where they could potentially require their services for longer than was previously anticipated.
jennyanydots
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The problem I had with the draft as it was used in the Vietnam era -- the rules were set up in such a way that the end result was that the poor and minorities wound up being drafted in disproportionately high numbers, as compared to white middle class and wealthy young men. I think that led to problems that the military didn't see in WWII. If the draft were to become necessary again, I'd hope that the rules would be changed.
GeorgeG
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I think the daft is always a possibility.
There's no way we can know what will happen over the next few years, no matter who gets elected. I suspect this war will become more global, not because any particular president or congress wants it to be, but because that's where the threat will be.
So many people don't see a threat until it lands on our soil and then they raise a stink because it wasn't prevented. We've had the luxury of fighting the enemy on foreign turf in so many wars that people tend to lose grasp of the fact that we do have enemies.
It's hard for people to understand why we're fighting all over the world, but if we don't do it there, it will surely be brought to us here... again!
I agree there shouldn't be a draft in that there shouldn't need to be a draft. I wish there were no wars, but since there are, we should have enough volunteers to fight them.
I'm a Vietnam veteran (not a draftee) and my grandson is a United States Marine due to arrive in Iraq by the end of summer. Of course I'm concerned, but as he puts it, it goes with the job.
Who knows, maybe Canada will be getting another generation of cowards...
There's no way we can know what will happen over the next few years, no matter who gets elected. I suspect this war will become more global, not because any particular president or congress wants it to be, but because that's where the threat will be.
So many people don't see a threat until it lands on our soil and then they raise a stink because it wasn't prevented. We've had the luxury of fighting the enemy on foreign turf in so many wars that people tend to lose grasp of the fact that we do have enemies.
It's hard for people to understand why we're fighting all over the world, but if we don't do it there, it will surely be brought to us here... again!
I agree there shouldn't be a draft in that there shouldn't need to be a draft. I wish there were no wars, but since there are, we should have enough volunteers to fight them.
I'm a Vietnam veteran (not a draftee) and my grandson is a United States Marine due to arrive in Iraq by the end of summer. Of course I'm concerned, but as he puts it, it goes with the job.
Who knows, maybe Canada will be getting another generation of cowards...
Rutt and Tuke
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Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Senator Kerry's protestations aside, stop loss is most certainly not a "back door draft". Everyone that enlists knows that enlistments can be extended at "the convenience of the government". If a person chooses to enlist knowing this, then they can hardly cry "foul" and "draft" when it happens.
As for the newsmax piece, just because you're quoting it doesn't make it any more reliable than when DawnCt1 quotes it. A radio talk show host is their source for an impending draft? Please.
Knowing that something can happen (extension of enlistment at the convenience of government) is not necessarily the same as expecting it to happen. It is a bit of a gamble with the odds increasing as we have seen.
Evil Princess
<font color=green>I'm going through coaster withdr
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I understand that you enlisted, but maybe not everyone is like you. I'm a 5'1 19 year old girl who wouldn't last two seconds in war, combat or not. Count me in as a coward!-
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