Why wait times have gotten crazy

[dlavender]

They also haven't raised ticket prices to $106. Does that mean they have an objection to $106 ticket prices?
They have EMH on Mondays but not on Tuesdays (or whatever), does that mean they have an objection to EMH on Tuesdays?
Do they "object" to letting on site guests book their FPs 61 days in advance and letting off site guests do it 29 days in advance? Is that an objection, of have they simply opted to do 60/30?

Yes. It means that as of right now, they have an objection to it.

 

[dlavender]

Personally, I'd be very upset if the only option was 9-7. Because I like the parks at night, I usually arrive at 6 and stay till 10 or 11.

That wasn't one of the choices I asked about..
$500 for everyone, with everyone getting equal treatment.
Or $100 for basic entry for everyone, but $200 as a price that includes extra FPs.

In other words, I'm wondering which is more important to you: Equal experience for all, (option 1, where it is $500 for everyone), or simply the more affordable option for you personally (option 2).

Why do I have to choose two experiences that you pick out. I could ask you:

Do you prefer eating dirt or drinking sour milk?

Not very productive....

Why cant option 1 be where it is today, $105 for everyone - equal experience?

 

[havoc315]

They don't do this, though. Does Cinderella leave the M&G because she needs to visit the people eating lunch? - No

Yes, if they wanted to create "Premium" rides - build two of everything - Go for it. That would take people out of line, improving the base experience, IMO.

They already have 2 of almost everything. Soarin has 2 theaters. Tower of Terror has multiple elevators. Dumbo has 2 spinners. Toy Story Mania and Test Track each have 2 tracks (I believe).

So it sounds like we have our compromise -- take half and make it standby only. Take the other half, and make it premium reservation only.

I'll fully agree with that compromise!

 

[dlavender]

They already have 2 of almost everything. Soarin has 2 theaters. Tower of Terror has multiple elevators. Dumbo has 2 spinners. Toy Story Mania and Test Track each have 2 tracks (I believe).

So it sounds like we have our compromise -- take half and make it standby only. Take the other half, and make it premium reservation only.

I'll fully agree with that compromise!

No, I said double what they currently have. If they want to build another Dumbo for the rich with cushions - I say do it.

 

[havoc315]

Why do I have to choose two experiences that you pick out. I could ask you:

Do you prefer eating dirt or drinking sour milk?

Not very productive....

Eating dirt. I can't stand sour milk. A very productive question if you are trying to learn my preference between sour milk and dirt.

My question to you, is very relevant to determine if you are talking about a personal preference (keeping a certain Disney experience affordable for you personally), or if you are talking about principle (having a universal price that gives everyone the exact same experience, even if that price hurts you personally).

 

[GreatLakes]

Surge pricing

They also haven't raised ticket prices to $106. Does that mean they have an objection to $106 ticket prices?
They have EMH on Mondays but not on Tuesdays (or whatever), does that mean they have an objection to EMH on Tuesdays?
Do they "object" to letting on site guests book their FPs 61 days in advance and letting off site guests do it 29 days in advance? Is that an objection, of have they simply opted to do 60/30?

There mere fact they haven't yet tried something, doesn't mean they "object" to it. Just means they haven't done it.

My thought exactly.

I suspect there will be a lot more line-iteming out of experiences once MM+ is a little more mature. Before they had a good CRM system in place it was too hard to manage the removal of things from the base experience and into optional line item experiences. The system in place now will be able to do much more of exactly that if Disney decides to do so and I can't think of a good reason why they wouldn't.

 

[havoc315]

No, I said double what they currently have. If they want to build another Dumbo for the rich with cushions - I say do it.

Then that's personal preference, not principle.

From a principle perspective, doubling the number of rides is the exact same as cutting the current rides in half.

 

[dlavender]

Id go a step further. Build an entirely duplicate MK, except make all the rides cushier. Dessert parties everywhere. Fireworks that are made out of real gold (is this possible?).

Then, charge $5000 a ticket. No lines, La Croux and Perrier coming out of the water fountains

Then, the premium experience can be had by those who want it, and the rest of us can enjoy shorter SB times....

Which park would you choose?

 

[dlavender]

Then that's personal preference, not principle.

From a principle perspective, doubling the number of rides is the exact same as cutting the current rides in half.

Not really, its giving the elite the "first class" experience, just like on an airline....You wouldn't choose First Class if it had Coach seats, would you?

It also doesn't affect other guests who don't choose to pay the premium. It takes people out of line. - Again, the whole crux of my view point - actions that don't adversely affect others.

Let's give them what they deserve, a cushioned seat!

 

[Enjoying Life]

I'm still on line from the summer of 2003!!!!

 

[havoc315]

Not really, its giving the elite the "first class" experience, just like on an airline....You wouldn't choose First Class if it had Coach seats, would you?

It also doesn't affect other guests who don't choose to pay the premium. It takes people out of line. - Again, the whole crux of my view point - actions that don't adversely affect others.

Let's give them what they deserve, a cushioned seat!

Nonsense. If First class was the same seats, but included faster entry/exit from the plane, and a better meal... then people would still be willing to pay more for it. Of course, the more it offers, the more people would be willing to pay.

Dumbo used to have just 1 spinner. Then they doubled it. By your logic, since they doubled the Dumbo capacity, you have no problem if 1 of those spinner is reserved for those who pay for a reservation (and get to avoid lines), while the second spinner has a 30-40 minute standby line.

Id go a step further. Build an entirely duplicate MK, except make all the rides cushier. Dessert parties everywhere. Fireworks that are made out of real gold (is this possible?).

Then, charge $5000 a ticket. No lines, La Croux and Perrier coming out of the water fountains

Then, the premium experience can be had by those who want it, and the rest of us can enjoy shorter SB times....

Which park would you choose?

Depends on which I could afford at the moment.

But stop building extra stuff. Seems like you're saying, "if they build extra stuff, I don't care about principles... but they better not take away anything I currently have."

If your argument is based on principles, then the same principles should apply to anything new they build. If you are just talking about your personal preference, then you are saying, "as long as it doesn't affect me PERSONALLY, I don't care."

 

[dlavender]

Nonsense. If First class was the same seats, but included faster entry/exit from the plane, and a better meal... then people would still be willing to pay more for it. Of course, the more it offers, the more people would be willing to pay.

Dumbo used to have just 1 spinner. Then they doubled it. By your logic, since they doubled the Dumbo capacity, you have no problem if 1 of those spinner is reserved for those who pay for a reservation (and get to avoid lines), while the second spinner has a 30-40 minute standby line.



Depends on which I could afford at the moment.

But stop building extra stuff. Seems like you're saying, "if they build extra stuff, I don't care about principles... but they better not take away anything I currently have."

If your argument is based on principles, then the same principles should apply to anything new they build. If you are just talking about your personal preference, then you are saying, "as long as it doesn't affect me PERSONALLY, I don't care."

Disagree....My principal is that one experience shouldn't adversely affect another's...not sure how that doesn't translate.....

 

[ArwenMarie]

I suspect that they will eventually try different possible arrangements.

There were already rumors of seasonal pricing for tickets, just like for hotels. They are adding more and more and more price differentiation as time goes on.

They already have a luxury FP option for those who want it.

Whether they can roll out FP price differentiation to a larger group is the question. Right now they can't, they hardly have enough FPs to spread around as it is.

Maybe once they get more rides built.

 

[havoc315]

Disagree....My principal is that one experience shouldn't adversely affect another's...not sure how that doesn't translate.....

1.. It already does.
2.. It all affects. You are just arbitrarily choosing current lines as the baseline. And you don't want anything that negatively affects the CURRENT baseline.

As I said, they already doubled the number of Dumbo spinners. So what would be wrong with giving 1 of those spinners to premium guests only? because it would "negatively" affect the "current" baseline? Though it would be neutral, compared to the 2010 baseline!

They are CURRENTLY building a 3rd Soarin theater. Not conjecture. It's happening. So you don't object if this NEW 3rd theater is reserved for premium guests only? And non-premium guests can still enjoy 60-90 minute waits at the existing 2 theaters.
Of course, they could open the 3rd theater for everyone, and give everyone a 40 minute line, instead of a 60 minute line.

So you don't object if they build new stuff, and treats the new stuff under a whole new set of rules, as long as they don't change any of the rules for the old stuff?

 

[havoc315]

They already have a luxury FP option for those who want it.

Whether they can roll out FP price differentiation to a larger group is the question. Right now they can't, they hardly have enough FPs to spread around as it is.

Maybe once they get more rides built.

They can. Lots of ways to do it. (just reduce the number of FPs you give as general access) Whether they will or not.. whether they deem it worthwhile or not... that we don't know.

 

[Planogirl]

They can fawn and coddle their deluxe hotel visitors as much as they want to as far as I'm concerned. I'm totally against cutting back the experience that others are used to though. I will never agree that it's fair that offsite visitors get one fastpass and value resort visitors get two when they have been getting three.

It's interesting that people are against Universal selling unlimited express when their tickets already cost less and adding these really doesn't make them THAT much more expensive than Disney's regular passes. It's even closer if people are happy with the limited express. At least there is a way to deal with crowds if they materialize.

 

[ArwenMarie]

They can fawn and coddle their deluxe hotel visitors as much as they want to as far as I'm concerned. I'm totally against cutting back the experience that others are used to though. I will never agree that it's fair that offsite visitors get one fastpass and value resort visitors get two when they have been getting three.

I agree. Even beyond the idea of being fair, it just won't work because many people won't come. We do onsite Deluxe and offsite trips. If offsite only gets one FP, I will just cancel those offsite WDW trips, not worth it.

Disney needs the offsite people in the parks too or they would have already done something like this.

 

[dlavender]

1.. It already does.
2.. It all affects. You are just arbitrarily choosing current lines as the baseline. And you don't want anything that negatively affects the CURRENT baseline.

As I said, they already doubled the number of Dumbo spinners. So what would be wrong with giving 1 of those spinners to premium guests only? because it would "negatively" affect the "current" baseline? Though it would be neutral, compared to the 2010 baseline!

They are CURRENTLY building a 3rd Soarin theater. Not conjecture. It's happening. So you don't object if this NEW 3rd theater is reserved for premium guests only? And non-premium guests can still enjoy 60-90 minute waits at the existing 2 theaters.
Of course, they could open the 3rd theater for everyone, and give everyone a 40 minute line, instead of a 60 minute line.

So you don't object if they build new stuff, and treats the new stuff under a whole new set of rules, as long as they don't change any of the rules for the old stuff?

1. No it doesn't (not in a measurable way)
2. I'm not arbitrarily choosing current lines ( the title of this thread, I believe, is
Why wait times have gotten crazy

Furthermore, I will concede to allowing the second half of dumbo to be purchased, as well as the 3rd Soarin theater. That will take people out of the regular SB lane, improving the experience for the other two theaters. No objection there. It would still lower the waits from 60 to 50, for the other two, so, great move, IMO.

Yes, no objection if they build new stuff. That's really what everyone is clamoring for. Please, build new stuff...The waits will take care of themselves at that point. You won't have to worry about trying to pay your way to the front, if they built more stuff....

 

[dlavender]

Also, think about it from Disney's view....

Using your arbitrary example, would you rather have 20000 people paying $500 in your park, or 100000 paying $100? Same money upfront, better ride experience for the 20000, however....with the latter, you have 80000 more people that get hungry, thirsty, want a keepsake.....I think we already know what they prefer.

 

[MrInfinity]

Disney needs the offsite people in the parks too or they would have already done something like this.

They ARE doing something like this. In 2012, all FastPasses were equal. Onsite, Offsite. Today, onsite gets dibbs at 60 days, offsite gets them at 30. Disney has essentially taken away that equal chance of getting the most desired FastPasses, from offsite guests. Some will move to onsite, others will stop going altogether. So while they haven't taken away FastPass altogether from offsiters, they certainly have taken away the best FastPasses from them.