Why have you NOT bought DVC?

[Ka-chow!]

Keep in mind, they're talking % here. The dues rate starts lower, annually, than the annual cost for most of the room types (especially deluxe). So while the % increase is roughly equivalent, the hotel rate will increase more in overall $'s.

Still, the lodging % increases are equivalent across all resorts.

But lodging is only one aspect of the vacation. But given continuous Disney perk reductions over time with their AP, DDP, etc, Disney keeps on whittling away the value of non-lodging areas, like food, which, by and large is much more expensive / lesser value than off-site. For example the 2008 DDP excludes a tip, which it included in 2007. That's a 18% increase. Yikes! Yes, off-site doesn't have the theming, but I'm a grown-up and I don't need Donald Duck hugging me when I eat my tiramisu.

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

As an example, I think Mama Della's at the Portofino is a wonderful Italian restaurant - certainly better than anything I've had at Disney so far, with the exception of Palo's on the cruise, of course. I wonder what % of DVC'ers have gone to Mama Della's?

And personally, I try to plan vacations around conferences, which allow me to write off trip/meals/travel. That's a bargain! "Vacation club dues" are not deductible. Sorry!

 

[Ka-chow!]

Oh puleeze....let's not go there with that sort of comment. If you are going to call us "zealots" for pointing out the positive aspects of DVC (and clarifying some misconceptions), then in the reverse, some of you could be considered just as zealot in your attempts to put DVC down for whatever reasons (some of them a bit far-fetched) you can.

I don't think anyone's saying all DVC defenders are zealots. Some make good points. But there are some fanatics out there. Whenever in-group slogans, like "Welcome Home", it makes me think of multi-level marketers slogans like "If you can dream it, you can do it" non-sense. But alot of wrong or selective information, half-truths, and bad arguments get used to support the contention that DVC is a great deal. One even used an appeal to patriotism argument to suggest that crushingly high gas prices may/will significantly harm DVC value. Thus, I think that otherwise intelligent people who are on the outside get shouted down because don't see the claimed $ value in DVC when everything is factored in.

 

[MiaSRN62]

For example the 2008 DDP excludes a tip, which it included in 2007. That's a 18% increase. Yikes! Yes, off-site doesn't have the theming, but I'm a grown-up and I don't need Donald Duck hugging me when I eat my tiramisu.

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

I've got over 40 visits to WDW logged in. Been a DVC'er for 9 years. We don't do the DDP. We actually have AP's and do the DDE. We order and get only what we want and save 20% even on alcoholic beverages. Also, having DVC makes it so much easier to eat some of our meals in our villa too. And, just because we own DVC and stay onsite does not mean we don't/can't go offsite to dine (which we do !). So no DVC'er is tied to DDP or even meals strictly onsite for that matter. And, "no", I don't need a disney character hugging me either. We book only one or maybe two character meals during our entire stay and this is whether we are staying on or offsite. DVC's/onsiters have more choices than you care to let on. Alot of DVC'ers drive. I know when I stay at OKW, I see car license plates from all over the country and even Canada. Lots of us have free reign to go offsite for meals and do just that. You make it out like DVC'ers HAVE to have the entire "magical" package. I find it quite the contrary. DVC'ers tend to log in many more stays than the usual disney tourists because we have flexible points that can be used all during the year and lots of us have AP's. SO I find, as a DVC'er, we actually take a more laid-back approach because we know we're coming back in 6 months.....and next year.......and the next. We don't feel the need to do commando-style any more. Take time to smell the roses more with DVC.....eat some meals in our villa......stretch out in the living room and relax during the heat of the day.

I don't think anyone's saying all DVC defenders are zealots. Some make good points. But there are some fanatics out there. Whenever in-group slogans, like "Welcome Home", it makes me think of multi-level marketers slogans like "If you can dream it, you can do it" non-sense.

Well I often extend a "welcome home" to fellow DVC'ers myself over the years. Does not make me a zealot by any means. Just a fun little traditional salutation. And some of the people who argue/debate against DVC can come off just as zealot----grabbing at any excuse/reason (not matter how far from truth it may be), to knock it down or discredit DVC. So I think there are two sides of the coin here and one can't point a finger when the other is doing the same thing essentially. So if some people feel the need to call some DVC'ers zealots because they feel it helps their arguments....so be it. But I think it can be fairly said, that there are a few "extremes" being argued on BOTH sides.

It still comes down to what works for each individual. What works for me, may not work for you. I can still assure you that we, personally, would be spending more money for onsite accomodations every year for the next 30-40 years if we just paid cash for two rooms values or two mods (and we actually prefer mods/deluxes when we stay onsite). The year before we bought DVC I could get a moderate (stayed at Dixie Landings back in 1999) for $110/night. Actually, we had gotten a $95 AP rate for Dixie Landings in '98 too. I just stayed at POFQ last year and paid $160/night (multiply that by a 7-10 night which is our usual stay). My DVC dues have not gone up even close to that rate since I bought.
So, for US, DVC works. Not being a zealot about it or anything.....just know the facts as they pertain to us and as I can forsee in the future. We can stay at DVC more economically than we could at a wdw mod or deluxe (we only stay at values for stays less than 3 nights).

SO I respectfully disagree with a several points you are trying to make Ka Chow.

 

[eliza61]

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

As an example, I think Mama Della's at the Portofino is a wonderful Italian restaurant - certainly better than anything I've had at Disney so far, with the exception of Palo's on the cruise, of course. I wonder what % of DVC'ers have gone to Mama Della's?
!

A whole lot!! Ask that question on the dvc board.

Most DVC'ers do not do the DDP or at least not after the first time. Most of the ones I know generally have cars and are pretty familiar with the Orlando area from visiting so often. We have no problem going off site to eat. Generally we stay 9 days + so we hit universal and seaworld. The few young dvc'ers with young children wouldn't venture off site to eat no matter where they stayed Deluxe, moderate or value and many will use the full size kitchen to save money on meals. I will admit, the point of buying the dvc was to stay on property. I don't like to stay off and whether or not I owned I would not stay off site and all dvc'ers will tell you that if you like the values or are happy off site, DVC is not for you. The DVC'ers on this board will definitely tell you the truth about it as much as they can.

 

[MiaSRN62]

A whole lot!! Ask that question on the dvc board.

Most DVC'ers do not do the DDP or at least not after the first time. Most of the ones I know generally have cars and are pretty familiar with the Orlando area from visiting so often. We have no problem going off site to eat.

eliza,
We're thinking and posting similarily and at the same time.
Some of Ka Chow's statements just go on to prove the many misconceptions/untruths/half truths that exist out there about DVC'ers. I sure have seen alot of them on this thread.

 

[Ratpack]

Whenever in-group slogans, like "Welcome Home", it makes me think of multi-level marketers slogans like "If you can dream it, you can do it" non-sense.

Just a correction on this, Welcome Home is not DVC, that is the term used to welcome guests at the resorts. Every stay I have had, the guard would always say "Welcome Home" and that was even before I bought into DVC. Also, the quote "If you can dream it, you can do it" came from Walt himself, not sure why you are aligning it with multi-level marketers. Maybe some have adopted it, but that was one of many quotes from Walt.

I just wish all the arguements over DVC or not would end. I would never try to convince someone to buy DVC unless it fit their travel habits and needs / wants. It did for us and will save us a lot of money over the course that we have it, but others it may not and may even cost more. Really all everyone is doing is trying to justify their decision to everyone else, but if you are happy with the decision on DVC you have made, that is all that counts.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Ratpack says : I just wish all the arguements over DVC or not would end. I would never try to convince someone to buy DVC unless it fit their travel habits and needs / wants. It did for us and will save us a lot of money over the course that we have it, but others it may not and may even cost more. Really all everyone is doing is trying to justify their decision to everyone else,

I'm not trying to convince anyone at all. Never have. I could really care less if someone else buys. I don't do referals or anything with DVC. But it's when misconceptions/untruths pop-up that I feel the need to clarify for those who may not know a thing about DVC. I just don't think it's fair for someone to make some of the blanket statements about DVC I'm seeing on this thread. I just state the facts as I know them to be as a Member so maybe it helps someone to either make a decision to buy or, even if it convinces them that DVC is not for them. I'm fine either way. Just like to see the truth about the system reported.

 

[Ratpack]

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have made that statement.

 

[pilferk]

Still, the lodging % increases are equivalent across all resorts.

But still more $-wise than any WDW DVC resorts dues increase, right? Even looking at the max $ increase in dues at the DVC's located at WDW, it is MUCH smaller than the equivalent "across the board" $ increase at deluxe (and even mod, I think) resorts.

But lodging is only one aspect of the vacation. But given continuous Disney perk reductions over time with their AP, DDP, etc, Disney keeps on whittling away the value of non-lodging areas, like food, which, by and large is much more expensive / lesser value than off-site. For example the 2008 DDP excludes a tip, which it included in 2007. That's a 18% increase. Yikes! Yes, off-site doesn't have the theming, but I'm a grown-up and I don't need Donald Duck hugging me when I eat my tiramisu.

We drive a car. We have a full kitchen in our 1BR or 2BR.

There are certainly as many opportunites for a DVC member, who wants to realize even MORE value from off site offerings, to eat elsewhere and save some money.

In addition, you have...if you choose to use them or find value in them...the opportunity to take advantage of the Disney perks you find useful. I don't have to do MYW tix...I can do discounted AP's. I don't have to do the DDP...I can pay OOP, or with my AP buy into the DDE. I don't see how DVC lessens your off site options in anything except lodging.

I like the theming, especially at places like AKL. You can't find anything like AKL anywhere else in the US, IMHO. I also like the relative proximity and ease of transportation (both Disney and my own) to the parks. I also like ACCESS to the Disney perks like EMH, 180+10 dining ressies (which is a godsend given the DDP), the different incarnations of the DDP (at times..depends on the trip), and a whole host of others. Were those factors in my decision? Sure, but ultimately it came down to numbers for us. And FOR US they made sense. They might not for everyone.

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

Again, how does buying a DVC membership have anything to do with your selection of off site restaurants or food choices? How does it prevent you from "getting good deals" in any category except lodging. Nobody is holding DVC members hostage on property!

On Lodging? Maybe, right now. But if you think that in 20 years, or even 10 years, the comparison will be as favorable, I invite you do do the comparison of the buy in price of DVC back in 1998 vs the lodging costs off site vs that same buy in price back in 1998 vs the lodging costs off site TODAY. Make sure you compare apples to apples, too, in terms of points used for DVC room type vs amenties at "outside lodging type".

You're prepaying for vacations for 50-ish years. You can't JUST compare today vs today. You should make that comparison, but you also have to do some projecting.

Again, DVC might not be right for you. There are TONS of reasons NOT to do DVC...many of them mentioned here. But, if you travel to WDW every year, prefer deluxes (and in maybe mods...I've not done that comparison), and prefer to stay on property....it seems to provide a VERY good value.

As an example, I think Mama Della's at the Portofino is a wonderful Italian restaurant - certainly better than anything I've had at Disney so far, with the exception of Palo's on the cruise, of course. I wonder what % of DVC'ers have gone to Mama Della's?

I have. But the question isn't "what % of DVC'ers HAVE gone""...it's "what % could choose to go". The answer is 100%, of course. You just need transportation and a reservation.

And personally, I try to plan vacations around conferences, which allow me to write off trip/meals/travel. That's a bargain! "Vacation club dues" are not deductible. Sorry!

Actually, a portion of my vacation club dues ARE tax deductible...the property tax portion.

 

[DVC Mike]

I'm not trying to convince anyone at all. Never have. I could really care less if someone else buys. I don't do referals or anything with DVC. But it's when misconceptions/untruths pop-up that I feel the need to clarify for those who may not know a thing about DVC. I just don't think it's fair for someone to make some of the blanket statements about DVC I'm seeing on this thread. I just state the facts as I know them to be as a Member so maybe it helps someone to either make a decision to buy or, even if it convinces them that DVC is not for them. I'm fine either way. Just like to see the truth about the system reported.

 

[pilferk]

Just a correction on this, Welcome Home is not DVC, that is the term used to welcome guests at the resorts. Every stay I have had, the guard would always say "Welcome Home" and that was even before I bought into DVC. Also, the quote "If you can dream it, you can do it" came from Walt himself, not sure why you are aligning it with multi-level marketers. Maybe some have adopted it, but that was one of many quotes from Walt.

I just wish all the arguements over DVC or not would end. I would never try to convince someone to buy DVC unless it fit their travel habits and needs / wants. It did for us and will save us a lot of money over the course that we have it, but others it may not and may even cost more. Really all everyone is doing is trying to justify their decision to everyone else, but if you are happy with the decision on DVC you have made, that is all that counts.

Exactly.

It "worked" for our family of 5, both financially (which was the biggest consideration) and as an "acceptable vacation choice" in terms of what the accomodations offered (amenites, location, room choice, etc).

It will not "work" for everyone. If you're happy in a value....don't even look at DVC as it's probably not for you. If you're happy off site, DVC might not be for you either. Depends on what happens over the next 10 to 50 years in lodging prices and "deals", but for the short term...you're better off off-site. If you don't want to travel to WDW every year, or at least every other year, DVC is not for you. If you want flexibility in vacation options (NOT WDW), you might not want to consider DVC because options outside Orlando might not be the most efficient use of points...if that matters to you. If you want housekeeping every day, DVC might not be the best value for you.

There are lots of caveats. But I don't think you can blanket DVC by saying it's not a good idea for ANYONE. Or to paint it as a universally "bad deal" to make.

It's a big purchase. Do your homework. Make sure you have a good grasp on the numbers, how the system works, and what you really need out of the system. Then decide.

 

[jodifla]

KA-CHOW, a few points:


I stayed at BC when it opened for $99 a night in 1990. It's showing on Expedia in September....a slow month... for $400 a night.

To me, that's skyrocketing! My dues haven't increased much at all in the 12 years I've owned...in fact, some years they've gone down.

But, if you are a conference person, then yeah, DVC doesn't make much sense.

Also, Europeans didn't just start traveling when the dollar got strong. Theyve ALWAYS traveled...just ask my Swedish relatives, who traveled over here even when the dollar was doing great 10 to 12 years ago. They also travel all over Europe all the time, even with high gas prices.

Your doomsday scenarios just don't add up. If gas remains high, public transportation, like trains, will come on the scene...just like in Europe.

If, for some reason, you couldn't pay your Disney dues (even though they are capped at 15 percent a year....) you just sell it, or in a doomsday market, you turn it back to WDW. Nobody makes you declare bankruptcy if you go into foreclosure on your house...the bank just takes over your house.

So enjoy your hotel rooms at WDW.

Me, I'll be in my two-bedroom suite, sipping champagne on the balcony after a nice long soak in my hot tub!

 

[jodifla]

Still, the lodging % increases are equivalent across all resorts.

But lodging is only one aspect of the vacation. But given continuous Disney perk reductions over time with their AP, DDP, etc, Disney keeps on whittling away the value of non-lodging areas, like food, which, by and large is much more expensive / lesser value than off-site. For example the 2008 DDP excludes a tip, which it included in 2007. That's a 18% increase. Yikes! Yes, off-site doesn't have the theming, but I'm a grown-up and I don't need Donald Duck hugging me when I eat my tiramisu.

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

As an example, I think Mama Della's at the Portofino is a wonderful Italian restaurant - certainly better than anything I've had at Disney so far, with the exception of Palo's on the cruise, of course. I wonder what % of DVC'ers have gone to Mama Della's?

And personally, I try to plan vacations around conferences, which allow me to write off trip/meals/travel. That's a bargain! "Vacation club dues" are not deductible. Sorry!

Where are you getting this from?

Never done DDP. We have a kitchen with our DVC, and we use that quite a bit. Saves a lot of money of vacation to have a kitchen, particularly with a family.

 

[jodifla]

I'm not trying to convince anyone at all. Never have. I could really care less if someone else buys. I don't do referals or anything with DVC. But it's when misconceptions/untruths pop-up that I feel the need to clarify for those who may not know a thing about DVC. I just don't think it's fair for someone to make some of the blanket statements about DVC I'm seeing on this thread. I just state the facts as I know them to be as a Member so maybe it helps someone to either make a decision to buy or, even if it convinces them that DVC is not for them. I'm fine either way. Just like to see the truth about the system reported.

Me too!

I'm not trying to justify my position....this thread has actually made me pretty happy now that I've actually punched through the numbers and realized how much I've saved with DVC over the years!

But to have folks who NEVER set foot in DVC properties, or been through the presentation, or looked through the paperwork, rattle off a bunch of total falsehoods about it to scare off potential DVCers, well, that needs to be confronted.

 

[Ka-chow!]

But to have folks who NEVER set foot in DVC properties, or been through the presentation, or looked through the paperwork, rattle off a bunch of total falsehoods about it to scare off potential DVCers, well, that needs to be confronted.

My obsession with scaring off potential DVC'ers has finally been exposed. LOL!

 

[VMK_Mouse]

I am not real happy with the way that Disney Corporation is replacing magic with money, therefore I am not so sure I want to commit to a relationship with them long-term.

When I see the magic come back into Disney Corporation as it once was I will certainly be doing DVC, but not until then.

 

[Ka-chow!]

So enjoy your hotel rooms at WDW.

Me, I'll be in my two-bedroom suite, sipping champagne on the balcony after a nice long soak in my hot tub!

Wow! You mean you can really sit in a real hottub? Gosh - that's just too classy - And I'm just too envious. You've changed my mind.

 

[Ratpack]

Come on folks, this thread is destined to be locked at this pace. Can't we just all agree that DVC works for some and not for others. Then we can all go to WDW and fun together!!

 

[dvczerfs]

Still, the lodging % increases are equivalent across all resorts.

But lodging is only one aspect of the vacation. But given continuous Disney perk reductions over time with their AP, DDP, etc, Disney keeps on whittling away the value of non-lodging areas, like food, which, by and large is much more expensive / lesser value than off-site. For example the 2008 DDP excludes a tip, which it included in 2007. That's a 18% increase. Yikes! Yes, off-site doesn't have the theming, but I'm a grown-up and I don't need Donald Duck hugging me when I eat my tiramisu.

So locking into DVC prevents DVC'ers from getting potentially very good deals, better values, and sometimes better quality at off-site hotels and restaurants. Many DVC'ers ***must*** do the whole "Disney experience" thing and get a MYW + dining plan. So they stay on property and think they are saving big money with the lodging, but they may not be getting it with food.

As an example, I think Mama Della's at the Portofino is a wonderful Italian restaurant - certainly better than anything I've had at Disney so far, with the exception of Palo's on the cruise, of course. I wonder what % of DVC'ers have gone to Mama Della's?

And personally, I try to plan vacations around conferences, which allow me to write off trip/meals/travel. That's a bargain! "Vacation club dues" are not deductible. Sorry!

wow! i know this is off topic but, were in the tax law did you find that you can write off trip/meals/travel for your vacation if you attend a confr. while on your vacation? you can write the whole thing off?

 

[jodifla]

Wow! You mean you can really sit in a real hottub? Gosh - that's just too classy - And I'm just too envious. You've changed my mind.

Again, the hot tubs in the 1-bedrooms on up that DVC have are a perk for a lot of us. Maybe you have one at home -- I don't, so it's a nice luxury for me.

They're not offered in any other WDW room I've been in, although I imagine some of the high end suites there have them.