Why does it take 4 years to get a college education?

[nuttylawprofessor]

If one's college courses are not more rigorous than high school courses or are a review of high school work, your college is inferior and/or you made a poor choice in picking your school.

I fully support requiring a BA or BS for law school admission. In addition to the education one should receive in college, there are very important life lessons one learns between the ages of 18 and 22. I don't want my students to be any more immature. I'm having a hard time getting my 22 and 23-year-old students to grow up. I don't need them to get any younger.

Finally, I have to laugh at the numerous posts slamming the need for English composition classes. Every fall, I meet 400 college graduates who can't pass a basic, multiple-choice English grammar exam. And these are students who did well in college.

 

[freckles and boo]

You are so right. The trouble with school is they always try to teach the wrong lesson. Believe me, I've been kicked out of enough of them to know. They want you to become less callow less shallow. But I say: why invite stress in? Stop studying strife, and learn to live the unexamined life.

 

[wickedstepmother]

And this should be in our schools before we graduate high school. There should be a diverse education in our elementary, middle, and high schools. Maybe this would also help people to learn more about what they might want to do after school and would help to curb the drop out rates in colleges and curb the debt incurred by these people.

Also, an English class is required to take in college. Why? I would imagine that all American's at least have already taken English courses throughout their previous schooling. It's superfluous in college unless your first language is not English. Not to mention, Math is also required. Unless your major/minor involves these two areas of studies, why are they required?

Yeah! Life is less painless for the brainless. Why think too hard? No need to tough it, when you can sluff it off as I do.

 

[punkin]

Yeah! Life is less painless for the brainless. Why think too hard? No need to tough it, when you can sluff it off as I do.

Then you just end up qualified to scare crows in a field.

 

[wickedstepmother]

Then you just end up qualified to scare crows in a field.

My point exactly!

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

Because you can't. Every student in the college has to take three english comp courses. The rest of the english requirements are yours to pick. If you do not test into the 100 level they have a "center for access and transition" you can get into, for students who are quite ready for college level work.

I find it a bit out there to assume that I am not good enough to "test out" of the english comp classes. I am a good writer, have been told by many teachers that I am a good writer. I know there are idiots in college who can't write proper sentences but I am not one of them.

ETA: Here are the requirements for the major I am in. As you can see I am REQUIRED to take English Comp 101, 102 and English Comp 289to fulfill the degree requirement. No testing out. http://www.uc.edu/degreeprograms/Program.aspx?program=15BA-HIST

I am new to all this college information, so I did take your recommendation and clicked through to your school, this is what I found with English... Doesn't this mean you can opt-out or be placed in an advanced class if you tested and or took the course in H.S.?

Note to students: College-level courses in standard arts and sciences disciplines (English, math, sociology, biology, etc.) from a previous institution(s) WILL count toward the "from A&S" requirement listed below.

English Composition - 9 credits: All students, prior to beginning English Composition, are given a diagnostic writing examination to determine whether developmental work in composition is required prior to enrollment in English Composition or, on the other hand, whether they may be placed in Advanced Freshman English. Students generally take two quarters of English Composition during their freshman year and one quarter during their sophomore year.
Foreign Language - 15-18 credits: All students are placed at the appropriate level in the introductory or intermediate sequence for any languages previously studied during high school. Enrollment for credit or audit in courses below the placement level is not permitted. Students who place out of foreign language must still meet the General Education Diversity and Culture (DC) requirement with 3 credit hours that may also count toward another requirement for the degree.
Enrollment in other foreign languages at the appropriately identified level is permitted. Students for whom the language requirement is not waived through placement enter at the appropriate level in a language previously studied, or begin a new language, and attain the required level of competence in either of two ways:

 

[FireDancer]

Yeah! Life is less painless for the brainless. Why think too hard? No need to tough it, when you can sluff it off as I do.

 

[brerrabbit]

My previous post in this thread tried to offer an explaination using economic theroy but as many have said why the need for college and the classes offered and required.

Based on those questions I would offer an alternate social theroy that suggests what I refer to as the dumbing down of our society. In our land of equal opportunity for all we have come to believe that everyone has a right to a college education, home ownership and a piece of the American dream. After all it's what our forefathers fought for and guarenteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The problem is we tend to ignore our history classes and forget the part about the need to work hard to achieve these goals. Every one can go to college, at least community college. They are open enrollment institutions that take all comers with a HS diploma or a GED. As a result HS's have dumbed down for students that in the past would not have been considered college material. I am a parent and I will freely admit that the hardest thing to ever accept in your life is the fact that your child will not succeed in everything they try in life. It breaks your heart but the reality is that some kids are not ready for college and the fact that some will never be ready for college. But here is the proof if on a micro level. My kids HS brag every year about the percentage of graduates that will move on to college. Granted they include Jr College and Community Colleges, but that percentage has hovered around 80% for a number of years. When I look at the number of people with 4 year degrees, Masters, and PHD's the numbers do not bear out the fact that 80% are finishing college. I don't have the exact numbers but I think that within six years of a graduating HS class something like only 15 to 20% have degrees. That means that a lot of them do not make it because they really should not. What it also does is in some regards lessen the acheivement of a 4 year degree.

In another way to think about it, many believed that home ownership was the same guarenteed right. Given the mortgage crisis and meltdown I think we can see that in the end there in fact are some people who really weren't ready for home ownership.

 

[wickedstepmother]

I am new to all this college information, so I did take your recommendation and clicked through to your school, this is what I found with English... Doesn't this mean you can opt-out or be placed in an advanced class if you tested and or took the course in H.S.?

Note to students: College-level courses in standard arts and sciences disciplines (English, math, sociology, biology, etc.) from a previous institution(s) WILL count toward the "from A&S" requirement listed below.

English Composition - 9 credits: All students, prior to beginning English Composition, are given a diagnostic writing examination to determine whether developmental work in composition is required prior to enrollment in English Composition or, on the other hand, whether they may be placed in Advanced Freshman English. Students generally take two quarters of English Composition during their freshman year and one quarter during their sophomore year.
Foreign Language - 15-18 credits: All students are placed at the appropriate level in the introductory or intermediate sequence for any languages previously studied during high school. Enrollment for credit or audit in courses below the placement level is not permitted. Students who place out of foreign language must still meet the General Education Diversity and Culture (DC) requirement with 3 credit hours that may also count toward another requirement for the degree.
Enrollment in other foreign languages at the appropriately identified level is permitted. Students for whom the language requirement is not waived through placement enter at the appropriate level in a language previously studied, or begin a new language, and attain the required level of competence in either of two ways:

Awesome detective work!

Tinker'n'Fun-1

Chisnpeke- 0

jk....lol

 

[FireDancer]

My previous post in this thread tried to offer an explaination using economic theroy but as many have said why the need for college and the classes offered and required.

Based on those questions I would offer an alternate social theroy that suggests what I refer to as the dumbing down of our society. In our land of equal opportunity for all we have come to believe that everyone has a right to a college education, home ownership and a piece of the American dream. After all it's what our forefathers fought for and guarenteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The problem is we tend to ignore our history classes and forget the part about the need to work hard to achieve these goals. Every one can go to college, at least community college. They are open enrollment institutions that take all comers with a HS diploma or a GED. As a result HS's have dumbed down for students that in the past would not have been considered college material. I am a parent and I will freely admit that the hardest thing to ever accept in your life is the fact that your child will not succeed in everything they try in life. It breaks your heart but the reality is that some kids are not ready for college and the fact that some will never be ready for college. But here is the proof if on a micro level. My kids HS brag every year about the percentage of graduates that will move on to college. Granted they include Jr College and Community Colleges, but that percentage has hovered around 80% for a number of years. When I look at the number of people with 4 year degrees, Masters, and PHD's the numbers do not bear out the fact that 80% are finishing college. I don't have the exact numbers but I think that within six years of a graduating HS class something like only 15 to 20% have degrees. That means that a lot of them do not make it because they really should not. What it also does is in some regards lessen the acheivement of a 4 year degree.

In another way to think about it, many believed that home ownership was the same guarenteed right. Given the mortgage crisis and meltdown I think we can see that in the end there in fact are some people who really weren't ready for home ownership.

Excellent post. It should be hard to own a home or get a degree. Everyone shouldn't get a A for effort when the results are barely D worthy. It is one aspect of the larger "there are no losers" mentality that seems to be prevalent now. Everyone doesn't win and they shouldn't. The winners win and the loser get to A) learn how to lose (which is important) and B) try again next time to be the winner.

It isn't something to be proud of when 90% of your school is on the honor roll, it is an indication that your curriculum is far too easy.

 

[wickedstepmother]

Excellent post. It should be hard to own a home or get a degree. Everyone shouldn't get a A for effort when the results are barely D worthy. It is one aspect of the larger "there are no losers" mentality that seems to be prevalent now. Everyone doesn't win and they shouldn't. The winners win and the loser get to A) learn how to lose (which is important) and B) try again next time to be the winner.

It isn't something to be proud of when 90% of your school is on the honor roll, it is an indication that your curriculum is far too easy.

You mean we can't just all dance through life...mindless and careless?

Let's make college really easy....that way it will be fair and everyone can have a college degree. Let's get rid of math and english requirements! Who needs math and english anyways.

 

[FireDancer]

You mean we can't just all dance through life...mindless and careless?

Let's make college really easy....that way it will be fair and everyone can have a college degree. Let's get rid of math and english requirements! Who needs math and english anyways.

Then how else is people gonna talk good English?

 

[wickedstepmother]

Then how else is people gonna talk good English?

Hey! Whatchu mean? I bin speakin American my hole life. I need no learnin in speakin and writin american.

I represent your statement!

lol

 

[Deb in IA]

Also, an English class is required to take in college. Why? I would imagine that all American's at least have already taken English courses throughout their previous schooling. It's superfluous in college unless your first language is not English. Not to mention, Math is also required. Unless your major/minor involves these two areas of studies, why are they required?

English is also taught in elemenatary school. And junior high. So why take it in high school?

Same with math.

Heck, why take anything at all?

(I am being facetious, and pointing out the illogic of your argument.)

 

[ThanksForNoticingMe]

And this should be in our schools before we graduate high school. There should be a diverse education in our elementary, middle, and high schools. Maybe this would also help people to learn more about what they might want to do after school and would help to curb the drop out rates in colleges and curb the debt incurred by these people.

Also, an English class is required to take in college. Why? I would imagine that all American's at least have already taken English courses throughout their previous schooling. It's superfluous in college unless your first language is not English. Not to mention, Math is also required. Unless your major/minor involves these two areas of studies, why are they required?

You have got to be kidding.

College is a privilege not a right. Each individual needs to choose whether they want to pursue a college education (which includes taking classes outside their major)...or if they would be better suited in a trade school setting.

Those who put in the work to obtain their college degree exit college with a well-rounded knowledge base.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Finally, I have to laugh at the numerous posts slamming the need for English composition classes. Every fall, I meet 400 college graduates who can't pass a basic, multiple-choice English grammar exam. And these are students who did well in college.

Right here is proof of how bad our educational system is from Kindergarten all the way up through college.

How on earth does a person who was born and raised in this country have problems with English unless they are mentally challenged?

You mean we can't just all dance through life...mindless and careless?

Let's make college really easy....that way it will be fair and everyone can have a college degree. Let's get rid of math and english requirements! Who needs math and english anyways.

I never said to get rid of them altogether and I never said to make college easier. I think you need to go back and read my post. Or is it you just read into it what you want because I'm inferior to you?

My point was that you should have already learned English and Math prior to college. If you didn't you certainly couldn't even get in to college. Not a real one anyway. And if you didn't, it's just further proof of how bad our educational system is in this country.



This thread has also been proof of the elitest thoughts and attitude of some people who seem to think they're better than everyone else just because they have a college degree.

English is also taught in elemenatary school. And junior high. So why take it in high school?

Same with math.

Heck, why take anything at all?

(I am being facetious, and pointing out the illogic of your argument.)

What exactly is illogical about it? Supposedly you should have learned what you need to before graduating high school to be able to either go on to a career or go on to college to get a more specialized career such as medicine or law.

You have to take an exam which is heavily based on math and english just to apply to colleges. If you don't do well, then you don't get in or you go to a crappy one.

You have got to be kidding.

College is a privilege not a right. Each individual needs to choose whether they want to pursue a college education (which includes taking classes outside their major)...or if they would be better suited in a trade school setting.

Those who put in the work to obtain their college degree exit college with a well-rounded knowledge base.

As I've stated, I've known plenty of college graduates (even those with masters and doctorates) who know nothing outside of their careers. They simply can't think for themselves and can only quote what they learned in college.



A well rounded education should start with Kindergarten and continue up through high school. Before I graduated high school, I took classes in art, music, French, Spanish, Chinese, world history, as well as math, english, American History, etc. I graduated on the honor roll from the best (at that time) public high school in my state.
I didn't flunk out of college (actually a University) my first year. I attended for 3 years before I dropped out. I didn't really learn much that was new while there either. In fact, I've learned a lot more on my own (not just experience either) in the years since I was there and wasted my money.



But then, I guess I'm too stupid for all of you and my opinions are only worthy to be made fun of.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[tar heel]

cteddiesgirl -- I can't resist... More English classes might have led to you spelling "English" with a capital "E" and not putting that apostrophe in "American's."

I'm not trying to be mean and pointed this out only because you're arguing against education that isn't professionally oriented. I'm one of those people who believes a broad education enhances your life. I learned a lot in college -- some of it had to do with my majors and some of it didn't. The older I get -- and I'm old -- the more I believe that my education truly enabled me to live a fuller, happier life.

 

[Deb in IA]

I didn't flunk out of college (actually a University) my first year. I attended for 3 years before I dropped out. I didn't really learn much that was new while there either.

Ah, now I see the problem.

That's too bad, cteddiesgirl.

You know, I have 14 years of post high school education and I am sure I could find things to learn for the rest of my life if I were to go back to college.

 

[Judy from Boise]

Deb beat me by 1 year....13 years post HS education here.....but I was faculty for 3 .5 years beyond that. I could enroll in college, even the lowliest community college and learn something new every day till I die, and pass on a happy women.

Each student has the personal responsibility to make sure their college is a good fit. If you chose to attend a college where you don't take any courses within your major until year 3, it was a choice. My DD is starting her college career this July as she is doing the 3 year tract to earning her BFA in film. She has 3 of 5 courses her first semester in her field of study. We researched to find a school that fit her needs.

 

[Sparx]

Deb beat me by 1 year....13 years post HS education here.....but I was faculty for 3 .5 years beyond that. I could enroll in college, even the lowliest community college and learn something new every day till I die, and pass on a happy women.

Each student has the personal responsibility to make sure their college is a good fit. If you chose to attend a college where you don't take any courses within your major until year 3, it was a choice. My DD is starting her college career this July as she is doing the 3 year tract to earning her BFA in film. She has 3 of 5 courses her first semester in her field of study. We researched to find a school that fit her needs.

I'm still a college student (BSW) and I agree with this. A lot of my gen ed was completed when I was in high school (dual enrollment at a local community college) and I learned things there. I read literature that I wouldn't have otherwise picked up and even in my "random" gen ed classes like philosophy or art appreciation I learned interesting things. I think a lot of these people who "didn't learn anything" didn't want to learn anything. Gen ed sucks sometimes but its something EVERYONE has to do (barring clep tests) so why not at least try to make the best of it? I had a lot of flexibility when I chose my gen ed classes and I chose ones that I was already interested in anyway.

ETA:
As I said earlier in this thread, I think that some of the general ed could be exchanged for more major specific classes. I had to take two english comp (I wrote about five essays in each one) and one english lit class. I would've traded one of those comp classes for another three hours of my major. I think if one comp class was made to be a little more work heavy we could get rid of the other one. I also had to take 8 hours of natural science I chose astrology and geology. Neither of those are exactly terribly relevant to my major course load, and I think I would trade at least four of those hours for a more relevant lecture. But its just the requirements that I and everyone else with this degree has/had to go through.