Why do I feel like a 2nd class citizen?

[Lynne M]

These discussions continue to baffle me. So many people don't seem to get the fundamental differences between being a timeshare owner and a guest of a hotel.

We all signed a contract, that spelled out in very clear terms what DVC would provide to us for our money. And yet, after purchasing, some people seem to decide that the services provided under the contract aren't enough. That DVC should give us extra things that we didn't pay for, so we feel 'appreciated.'

It doesn't work that way. If you enter into a leasing agreement with a car dealer, you don't get to go back 6 months later and say you don't feel 'valued' as a customer, and you want free maintenance. If you sign a contract with a pest control company that includes 5 visits a year to spray your house, you can't decide later that the company should also throw in a free yard treatment to show their appreciation for your business. Well, you can ask for those things, but the business owner is going to show you the contract, and politely say no.

This is not like being a customer of a hotel that needs to compete for your business. You have signed a contract. What other customers without contracts are paying for their lodging is irrelevant. You knew what you were getting for your money, and if it wasn't enough, you should never have signed up.

If you want to feel courted by Disney, if you want to play the discount-watching game, if you're not going to feel valued as a customer unless you can take a percentage off your room rate (even though you're saving more over the long haul with DVC).....you really need to sell the DVC membership and go back to being a cash customer.

And I don't mean that in a mean-spirited way. I prefer knowing that I have a pre-defined discount for the next several decades. Some people would rather gamble and see if they can get better deals. It's all a matter of what makes you happy.

 

[PBB]

Of course you need to pay immediately. The contract isn;t between you and the cruise line, it is between DVC and the cruise line, and that contract likely calls for DVC to pay any cash portions upfront. Why should DVC then lose $ by paying upfront and waiting for you to pay...that cost and additional accounting/bookeeping would be paid by all members through additional dues.

Nobody asked DVC to pay upfront......DCL isn't asking for the money upfront why would DVC have to pay anything upfront ? Why cant dvc members be awarded some terms and conditions ? I should pay up front because I choose to use points and pay cash ?? Gee, I gave pretty hefty deposit giving all my points upfront.......I can't be trusted like the rest of the DCL cruise guest ??

We DO get special rates on APs and PAPs. We used to get 10% of Length of Stay passes...people weren't satisfired and wanted more...they always want more.

In fact, our DVC AP price is only $20 more than a FL resident AP.

I should have said we should get the same ticket media as a Florida Resident.

There is no "tourist sales tax," you pay the same sales tax as Fl residents pay. Sales tax is sales tax. Nor did you "invest" in Disney, those people are called stockholders, and they receive no discounts or perks whatsoever. We do not pay room occupancy (hotel) taxes...we own the property.

I am a stockholder and I do invest in them both with my retirement account and I paid upfront for a hotel commodity for 42 years. You have a very narrow view of the term "investment". Investment is not tied to to just stocks/bonds. There are other commodities that you can invest in including real estate. If I sold my asset today it would provide me a return of money and I would have gotten a gain of personal pleasure.

It is doubt that on a per room night basis, we DVCers are "their best customers," we likely spend more as individuals over the course of our membership, but there is no way we spend the same amount per week of stay as a cash guest, even with discounts.

You can take a short term approach or long term approach. Disney has MADE plenty on all of us every time a property is sold out. I can promise you it is more than they make at a hotel. Hence, why no new hotels since 9/11.

As a businessman, a customer who pays me 40-50 years in advance for my product is my best customer. If you can't see that ........then you and I have a different view of a good customer. I don't believe you take someones money and run to the next customer and forget to service an existing customer. This short term approach will kill your product. Hence, why so many timeshares fail.

We are a captured audience. I believe ticket prices are crazy in today's economy. My son was down at WDW last week and he said the crowds were non existent. Would Disney be better to cut the price of admission and fill the parks up or would they be better raising the prices and watch park attendance go further down. This is like raising taxes during a recession........Oh, we will argue that in another forum. http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[PBB]

If you want to feel courted by Disney, if you want to play the discount-watching game, if you're not going to feel valued as a customer unless you can take a percentage off your room rate (even though you're saving more over the long haul with DVC).....you really need to sell the DVC membership and go back to being a cash customer.

And I don't mean that in a mean-spirited way. I prefer knowing that I have a pre-defined discount for the next several decades. Some people would rather gamble and see if they can get better deals. It's all a matter of what makes you happy.

The last time I looked I did not sign a contract that barred me from expressing my opinion. I am entitled to express the opinion that I believe the ticket media pricing has gotten out of hand. I love the if you don't like it then leave attitude that so many people state here. I like Disney.....I like DVC.....Neither are the same as they were 12 years ago. That does not mean I should lie down and say nothing nor does it mean I should just pack my bags and leave. I am sorry you don't like to hear people express their displeasure of DVC.

 

[Chuck S]

Nobody asked DVC to pay upfront......DCL isn't asking for the money upfront why would DVC have to pay anything upfront ? Why cant dvc members be awarded some terms and conditions ? I should pay up front because I choose to use points and pay cash ?? Gee, I gave pretty hefty deposit giving all my points upfront.......I can't be trusted like the rest of the DCL cruise guest ??

You know the wording of the reservation contract between DVC and DCL, and that DCL doesn't require DVC to pay upon booking?

In fact, our DVC AP price is only $20 more than a FL resident AP.

I should have said we should get the same ticket media as a Florida Resident.

Why? We aren't Florida residents. Paying property taxes in a geographic area does not, by default, make you a resident of the area. They need to encourage the locals to visit often, locals, like cash guests, can simply choose not to visit in bad economic times. DVCers pretty much have their vacation habits set, dictated by the number of points an individual owns.

I am a stockholder and I do invest in them both with my retirement account and I paid upfront for a hotel commodity for 42 years. You have a very narrow view of the term "investment". Investment is not tied to to just stocks/bonds. There are other commodities that you can invest in including real estate. If I sold my asset today it would provide me a return of money and I would have gotten a gain of personal pleasure.



You can take a short term approach or long term approach. Disney has MADE plenty on all of us every time a property is sold out. I can promise you it is more than they make at a hotel. Hence, why no new hotels since 9/11.

As a businessman, a customer who pays me 40-50 years in advance for my product is my best customer. If you can't see that ........then you and I have a different view of a good customer. I don't believe you take someones money and run to the next customer and forget to service an existing customer. This short term approach will kill your product. Hence, why so many timeshares fail.

We are a captured audience. I believe ticket prices are crazy in today's economy. My son was down at WDW last week and he said the crowds were non existent. Would Disney be better to cut the price of admission and fill the parks up or would they be better raising the prices and watch park attendance go further down. This is like raising taxes during a recession........Oh, we will argue that in another forum. http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Except we as individuals, have not truly guaranteed them we would be a captive audience or loyal customers until the end of our contract term. We can find other individuals to buy our contracts. We can sell the membership, and the new buyer would simply take our place paying the resort operating expenses, there is no "new income source" in that for Disney. There is no guarantee that additional perks to existing members equals substantially more income for the company. For instance, if they gave existing members free passes when we stay on points, would that guarantee a comparable increase in new point sales? Surely they have enough data from the original incentive to see if that were true, and if so, they'd find a way to give us passes.
DVC is an immediate return on the investment for Disney, at least it was when they were able to bundle and sell of the mortgages. It has evolved into a longer term investment, now that Disney has assumed the roll of long-term lien holder, and giving them more long-term debt.

The cash resorts are a long-term investment...one that requires marketing and constant sales that DVC does not require. They need the constant influx of cash from the cash resorts to pay the resort operating expenses. Not so with DVC resorts, as the our annual dues pay the operating expenses...I think the building spree for both cash resorts and DVC may be over for a while, once Hawai'i is completed. At least until the economy improves significantly, or unless they find less expensive locations to build.

It still boils down to basic differences between the economics of cash resorts and timeshares. Timeshares aren't for everyone, and especially not for those that need reward programs or "special offers" to make it seem like it is a viable choice for their vacation needs..

 

[Dean]

Nobody asked DVC to pay upfront......DCL isn't asking for the money upfront why would DVC have to pay anything upfront ? Why cant dvc members be awarded some terms and conditions ? I should pay up front because I choose to use points and pay cash ?? Gee, I gave pretty hefty deposit giving all my points upfront.......I can't be trusted like the rest of the DCL cruise guest ??

I don't see it as a trust issue but as a simplicity issue. IF they did deposits instead of full price they'd ultimately need more people than they have now. I'd guess that would translate to at least 2 or more FTE to deal with the extra phone calls, follow up the accounting, notify DCL, etc. I suspect they could do it a different way but the decision is theirs. To me I think their decision is more why bother at all and offer the perk than not since DVD does not make money on these exchange programs.

In fact, our DVC AP price is only $20 more than a FL resident AP.

I should have said we should get the same ticket media as a Florida Resident.

I've long said that DVC members should get the same benefits. We're not FL residents (well I am) but they could chose to offer the same perks to DVC members as they do FL residents and I think they should. However I also don't see it as a problem if they don't because it's their business decision.

I am a stockholder and I do invest in them both with my retirement account and I paid upfront for a hotel commodity for 42 years. You have a very narrow view of the term "investment". Investment is not tied to to just stocks/bonds. There are other commodities that you can invest in including real estate. If I sold my asset today it would provide me a return of money and I would have gotten a gain of personal pleasure.

I would agree that in some ways DVC members are invested in Disney but not in the sense of being a stock holder and I don't see that it should alter their decisions one way or another. You'll see the idea thrown around that DVC is not an investment, certainly it is. It may not be a good one from a financial standpoint and DVC has to represent that one should not expect gain from sale or rental, this is the reason in the POS it says you should not buy DVC as an investment, because FL law says they must. The reason for the FL law says that is that companies will falsely promise you big gains in rentals and sales to make a sale so this is protection from that by including a disclaimer in the POS.

As a businessman, a customer who pays me 40-50 years in advance for my product is my best customer. If you can't see that ........then you and I have a different view of a good customer. I don't believe you take someones money and run to the next customer and forget to service an existing customer. This short term approach will kill your product. Hence, why so many timeshares fail.

Not many timeshare fail, it's actually been quite few over the years. It sounds like you're made the assumption that DVC is about the only good timeshare and I'd dispute that idea if so. Actually for many situations DVC is a poor choice. I do feel you and I have a fundamental difference on how someone who's already locked in should be treated. All you really need to do for that customer is provide what you contracted you would and do it well. IF they paid for 50 years and you run a special of half off for this year, would you give them a refund of that amount? It's like bribing kids, you have to keep escalating the bribe so that eventually you're giving them a car to do something. One other area I think you're missing is that we're really talking several different issues. Disney didn't sell us a timeshare, DVD did. Disney and DVD don't manage the timeshare, DVCMC does and we own it for the RTU period. While I realize those are fairly small distinctions, they are VERY important ones. Ultimately we bought time at a single resort and all they owe us is that time at a well kept and appropriately managed resort. That is all we have the right to expect all else is a bonus.

We are a captured audience. I believe ticket prices are crazy in today's economy. My son was down at WDW last week and he said the crowds were non existent. Would Disney be better to cut the price of admission and fill the parks up or would they be better raising the prices and watch park attendance go further down. This is like raising taxes during a recession........Oh, we will argue that in another forum. http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

They actually have some great specials for FL residents and military right now with a 4 day pass of $99, add park hopping for $26 and add water park options for $26. We were down several times in 2009 during slower times and the crowds seemed as much as ever for those times of the year.

 

[dmoore22]

This is probably not the best analogy but what the hay. I was one of those folks years back that fell in love with the PT Cruiser when it first came out. I was discouraged because of the long wait due to the backorders. Supply could not keep up with demand. Well, to make a long story longer, my DW and I happened to be at a Chrysler dealership at just the right time. A fellow had pre-ordered a PT with all the bells and whistles when, lo and behold, when it finally arrived, he couldn't get approved for a loan. We test drove it, loved it, wanted it. However it was selling at a premium price because they, the dealer could get the price. We purchased a vehicle with bells and whistles I would never have ordered if times had been different. As the supply of Cruisers was able to keep up with demand the base prices dropped and more dealer/manufacturer incentives were available to promote sales. Of course I would look at those deals and think what a sucker I was for not waiting until all the hoopla died down to purchase one. However I really have no regrets. My employer, a subcontractor for a state agency, requires us to use rental vehicles as opposed to our own when we have to travel long distances throughout the state. They figure it is cheaper than paying us the going state mileage rates. What's nice about that is the opportunity to sort of "test drive" different vehicles for an extended period. Of course I'll request a Cruiser just so I can compare it to my now "Old Faithful." The ones I've rented do have some different bell and whistles than my trusty first generation Cruiser. But there is a certain amount of cheapness about the construction that quickly evaporates any of my "if I had it to do over again" second thoughts. Each additional mile I get out of my car the cost of ownership goes down. Only time will tell if the same can be said about the newer, inexpensively made models. So far, by comparison, I'm a first class Cruiser owner. I feel the same way about our DVC ownership.

We are also Disney shareholders. We've held shares for a very long time. Years back Disney did provide its shareholders with various promotions to either purchase products or visit the parks. Sometimes these promotions were offered to the shareholders prior to being eventually opened to the general public. Sometimes it was something as simple as a "shareholder only" comemorative watch. They varied each year and were included in the shareholder materials that accompanied the invitation to the shareholders' meetings. Those days have been long gone as Disney, like many corporations, is attempting to cope with the current economic "correction." This year we didn't receive the slick, glossy, company report with cover photos that are suitable for framing. Should I be upset or should I consider that the cost for these bells and whistles is being reinvested, hopefully wisely, back into the company to assure quality products and maximize shareholder return?

Years ago, before DVC existed, we invested what was to be our retirement savings in shares of Disney and Pixar plus some tech stocks and mutual funds among others. Of course we live our lives as if we don't have this nest egg to fall back on. When we found out about DVC we debated the pros/cons and what kinds of things we would like to do when we retire. In the meantime our shares in Disney appreciated, split, appreciated, split, appreciated, and split again. Finally the stars were in alignment and we found a DVC resale at a very nice price that included a years worth of banked points (MF already paid on banked points) and an add-on in which the seller paid the first year's MF. We sold some of our Disney shares to pay for the points. Even with selling the shares the value of our Disney stock was still more than our initial investment. We considered an appreciation over 10% a gift. However, since we sold the shares at an appreciated value we would have to claim capital gains. Since we saw the dot-com bubble had sprung a leak we moved some of our poorly performing tech positions into cash thus creating a capital loss that more than offset the capital gains thus creating a refund on our income taxes. Since the money spent to purchase into DVC was not money we earned the old fashioned way (blood, sweat & tears) and the portfolio value, after the stock sale/DVC purchase, maintained a positive capital appreciation, we considered our DVC purchase a freebie since the value is only on paper anyway. Hence our only cost for accommodations has been the MF without having to further touch our retirement savings/investments. We could also consider the cost to actually be less than the MFs we have paid over the years since we started off with a full year in which we did not have to pay the MF. Less than $80 bucks a night for accomodations frees up a lot of cash for us to enjoy many activities at WDW. And, like our trusty old Cruiser, the cost of ownership diminishes each year we use it. Unlike the Cruiser, the points value has actually appreciated over what we initially paid. As for all the dialogue regarding perks we find, unlike the shareholder incentives of old, there has been some stability in the DVC perks/benefits in that whenever one has been lost or changed there is a new one to replace it. Over the years of our ownership interest we find that the perks that we have lost were generally not any that we took advantage of very often. We could take it or leave it. The ones that we have gained, generally, have been ones we actually use. What is certain about this issue, as with many things in life, is it's all relative. There are no absolutes that can be generalized to all DVC owners. We are among the group that feels like VIPs when we use our DVC membership.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Value is another relative term. If its cheap, and you don't want or need it, is it really a bargain? Does it have value (rhetorical question)? We prefer TIW because we can eat what we want, when we want, and where we want. And, of course, we find the best, and most important value is in the discounts!!

Fair point. Although I used to get SSP when it did include tip and App because I enjoyed trying some of the more expensive items I might not get if I was using TIW, etc. Of course, if it came down to two menu choices that were far apart in price, I chose the more expensive.

The app was what I enjoyed most. Usually the most creative dishes by a chef are found in the appetizer section. I think this is especially true at Disney, where there are a lot of cookie cutter entrees...even at signature dining, but many of the apps are amazing.... Sometimes, some treasures are in the bar... The spring roll with peanut sauce at the wave is AMAZINGLY good but is only on the bar menu. I learned about it from an F and W demo this year. The chef you can order off menu for it but most people will never experience this.

Honestly, there have been times where I just do a few apps for my dinner. I did this at Citricos once and had an amazing meal from the apps.

The other minor issue with TIW is you HAVE to have an AP (assuming the person is out of state like us). So that does lock in your trip to get your value from the AP. Otherwise, if you are only going for a week trip and not planning on going anytime else within that year, then the TIW is probably a bad value as you'd have to make up the AP price difference for one person and the TIW price just to break even on the card. Of course, Heavy drinkers and a V and A visit can do this quick...

Don't get me wrong, I love TIW (even if I hate the name) and we actually do get APs... we usually go for 8-10 days each trip and use the AP for the first trip and schedule trip 2 to end within days of the AP expiration.

 

[yitbos96bb]

what about when someone gets upgraded from a value to a dvc resort its nearly always a 1 bedroom, if your staying in a studio thats a better room. yet no dvc member would get that upgrade.

That's not really a common occurence though. I mean, What if I won a free DVC membership by getting first prize for America's Funniest Home Videos? There will always be mitigating factors... for this discussion, its best to stick with the common occurences... such as assuming you won't be upgraded.

 

[PBB]

They actually have some great specials for FL residents and military right now with a 4 day pass of $99, add park hopping for $26 and add water park options for $26. We were down several times in 2009 during slower times and the crowds seemed as much as ever for those times of the year.

Wow....$99 for a 4 day pass......What a great price! So, you can live close by and go to the parks for $ 25 per day. That is a great rate.

Which pass do you own ? DVC AP or a Florida Resident one ?? My guess is you have a Fl. Resident one.....I don't blame you if you do.

I just think that is a shame that Disney does not equate us to a Florida Resident. I believe a 4 day park hopper MYW pass is around $ 280 +/- now. So, for a family of 4 that is $ 720 more for being a privileged DVC member.

I feel that Disney should provide the same opportunities to some of their "Best Customers" that they provide to someone who lives close by is all.

Maybe Disney should give the Florida Residents full time fast access passes next for all rides. Maybe they should make a DVC line that lets everyone else goes first.......LOL.....Sorry, sometimes Mr. Sarcasm comes out.

 

[yitbos96bb]

The referenced upgrades come from cash inventory that is not (or no longer) owned by DVC members.

As I've said before, someone else getting a benefit is not hurting a DVC member in any way. There are many groups that have historically gotten discounts that are not open to other including most DVC members unless they fit into the other group AND often they have to forego a DVC stay to take advantage of the other options. Certainly it does reduce the dollar value of DVC by reducing the potential costs on the cash side of the ledger. Still I'm confident that DVC will still end up being a value IF it was a reasonable option for that person to start with. I think the problem is that some people bought in without a clear benefit and now they are realizing DVC didn't make as much sense for them as they thought it did.

Such as TIW only being available to Residents and Annual Pass holders. In fact, the reason many DVCers GET TIW is because of the awesome AP discount we get. Otherwise, I have a feeling we'd see a lot less DVC people using TIW.

 

[yitbos96bb]

In the grand scheme of global injustices, worrying about a handful of cash guests who get upgraded instead of me just isn't high on my list.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Every time one of these threads is started, it ends up the same way. Yes, as DVC members, we much prefer studio rooms over the Values. Yes, we would much prefer having a 2 bedroom DVC Villa than 2 rooms at even a Deluxe WDW Resort. Yes, we understand that as DVC members we've already prepaid for our future trips. However, we still have the annual maintenance fees to figure in. Yes, we understand that as DVC members, we're free to book the offers Disney is putting out there. BUT.......our money is already committed to Disney. This would mean paying them ADDITIONAL money. Many of us are not so fortunate as to have that extra money. (and please, don't bring up how we could rent the points) We hear from all the happy members who state that perks were never guaranteed. And from all those who have figured out the $ facts.

But there are many others, such as the OP, and my husband & I, who would like Disney to show us some appreciation. Do they have to? Probably not, as many have mentioned, Disney is a business. However, for the OP and our family, it would be nice if we could get a little something as a Thank you. A special fastpass for DVC members staying on points would be nice.

As others have mentioned, how about negotiating a discount on MYW tickets? We bought in to DVC for our family to use. However, not even the AP discount can be used for our grown children or our grandchildren. As grandparents, we want to use our DVC membership for trips with them. We can't always go twice in 1 yr to make the AP worthwhile even for us. Yes, discounts are offered for special ticketed events (parties).......but not for every day.

What we're talking about here is a feeling. We love Disney. We love our DVC rooms. But........we don't feel so great when we're at the pool at SSR and see how crowded it is AND then overhear all the people talking about how they received their 1 bedroom when they had booked, and paid for, a value room at POP. OR when we're waiting outside a TS restaurant that we're paying OOP for and overhear everyone around us talking about how they've received free dining. (yes, I've heard the no such thing as free speech)

As someone trained in customer service, I know how an unhappy customer can effect a business. Disney is a business. Many of us DVC members are not happy that perks (which we know were never guaranteed) are taken away. (For those owners at BWV, I feel for you! That has the worst parking ever!) Most businesses, even Disney, will give their customers discounts & special offers to not only bring them thru the doors.....but to keep them coming back. The OP, myself & many others, feel that Disney already has our money, and no longer cares about how we feel. Yes, the free internet is good..........but doesn't effect my husband or myself. We're happy for those of you who use it.

We don't want to pay higher dues for discounts we as members receive. We would like Disney to want to give us some discounts (dining, shopping, tickets, etc) to encourage us to feel better about our situation. Maybe we'll eat less in the room then? Maybe we'll do more shopping. Maybe we'll tell everyone just how great DVC really is. But for those members who are feeling left out &/or not appreciated.......that probably won't happen. Again, DVC fastpasses would go a great way in making us FEEL better, without costing them money.

What it comes down to is this is how we feel, and not something that can be dismissed by jotting down a purchase price, etc on a piece of paper. We love Disney, we love DVC, but we're feeling under-appreciated and not very happy. Please try to understand that many DVC members feel this way, and don't attack the OP or any other members for this.

Thank you.

If you are feeling underappreciated, then why do you keep your membership? I mean, if I was upset with the treatment I received and this was a long term issue for me, I'd sell my membership.

Sure there are things that would make sense for them to do... a loyalty program would be super intelligent... this would be for all people, not just DVC, but the more you go, the more points you get to use toward fast passes, tickets, meals, gift cards, etc.

They have done things in the past, just not what you were probably looking for... the Glicle a few years ago is an example of member appreciation... yeah, I know its not as cool as the fast passes, etc, but it is an effort.

 

[Dean]

Wow....$99 for a 4 day pass......What a great price! So, you can live close by and go to the parks for $ 25 per day. That is a great rate.

Which pass do you own ? DVC AP or a Florida Resident one ?? My guess is you have a Fl. Resident one.....I don't blame you if you do.

I just think that is a shame that Disney does not equate us to a Florida Resident. I believe a 4 day park hopper MYW pass is around $ 280 +/- now. So, for a family of 4 that is $ 720 more for being a privileged DVC member.

I feel that Disney should provide the same opportunities to some of their "Best Customers" that they provide to someone who lives close by is all.

Maybe Disney should give the Florida Residents full time fast access passes next for all rides. Maybe they should make a DVC line that lets everyone else goes first.......LOL.....Sorry, sometimes Mr. Sarcasm comes out.

We are 4 hours away and I have several different passes. Often I get seasonal passes and we use them for several trips, that's what we have right now. I enjoy the convenience and park hoping without having to worry about whether I'm using a day or not. I also have several partially used passes from the past 8-10 years that I'll use when the time is right.

As I said and have a number of times on DIS, I think Disney should offer the same benefits to DVC members as they do to FL residents, not because they are obligated but just that I see it as a win-win situation for both groups. I would agree they should provide benefits they already provide to others when there is little risk/cost for them to do so and the infrastructure is set up for those options. IMO that means yes to the same perks as other FL residents and no to the free dining, room discounts, etc.

I do respect the rights of a company to offer selected benefits as a business model and that seems to be the ultimate question of most of these type threads.

 

[yitbos96bb]

But that is precisely the deal. Disney markets hard to get you to sign up for a lifetime of vacations. After that, you are already "sold". Disney must market to the cash guest each and every year. The resulting differences should be obvious.

As I wrote above, though, that doesn't mean the cash guest gets the better deal, and the Member gets the worse one. On average, you're getting the better deal. It "feels like" the cash guest is doing better, because of all these "discounts"---but the discounts are off of rack rates that are (to put it charitably) exhorbitant. So, it might feel like you're getting the short end of the stick. But, if you sit down and really work it out, you're not---not by a longshot.


I get this. But what this really says is that Disney's marketing is effective. They are creating a sense of value by "discounting", and you are feeling left out of that. But, if you really compare apples to apples, a "discounted" cash reservation vs. a DVC reservation, the "discount" really isn't much of a value in most cases.

As a concrete example, consider the Dining Plan. I am convinced that most guests, left to their own devices, wouldn't quite eat one table service meal per day. Sure, a few do, but *most* do not. Indeed, I'd bet my last Mickeybar that *most* guests who just eat what, where, and when they want spend less than the dining plan costs. Again, there are exceptions, but I think they are exceptions rather than the rule. Yet, you'll hear over and over how much the plan "saves"---sure, it saves compared to the menu price of what you order while you are on the plan, but that's NOT what you would have ordered or where you would have eaten if you weren't on the plan. So, while the plan appears to be a discount opportunity, I suspect that on average it's actually an upsell program in disguise. We see several posts on the dining boards every single day that say "I have two credits left that I need to use, where should I eat?"

In fact, even when I actually hit one TS meal per night, I still end up spending less than the Plan costs in aggregate, because many of my meals are less expensive for one reason or another. I recall one light lunch for the two of us at Brown Derby that came to $60. It was excellent, but certainly would not have been worth four TS credits.

Now, it's true that this year, you can find some deals where Disney's cash price is competitive with the true cost of booking as a Member. But, this year and last---where they are giving 40% discounts during peak summer---are extraordinarily unusual. Most years, the discounts are much less generous, and the member is coming out even more to the good.

The other thing you left out with the DDP... IF not for the DDP, many of those people would probably also be going off property to eat at much cheaper prices... further strengthening your argument. heck, right down from DTD there is pretty much every chain restaurant you can imagine.

 

[yitbos96bb]

We are 4 hours away and I have several different passes. Often I get seasonal passes and we use them for several trips, that's what we have right now. I enjoy the convenience and park hoping without having to worry about whether I'm using a day or not. I also have several partially used passes from the past 8-10 years that I'll use when the time is right.

As I said and have a number of times on DIS, I think Disney should offer the same benefits to DVC members as they do to FL residents, not because they are obligated but just that I see it as a win-win situation for both groups. I would agree they should provide benefits they already provide to others when there is little risk/cost for them to do so and the infrastructure is set up for those options. IMO that means yes to the same perks as other FL residents and no to the free dining, room discounts, etc.

I do respect the rights of a company to offer selected benefits as a business model and that seems to be the ultimate question of most of these type threads.

Can we put you in charge of this at Disney? ;-) I'd love the Resident perks!!

 

[Dean]

Can we put you in charge of this at Disney? ;-) I'd love the Resident perks!!

Only if I get to be in charge of everything.

 

[going/again]

Of course you need to pay immediately. The contract isn't between you and the cruise line, it is between DVC and the cruise line, and that contract likely calls for DVC to pay any cash portions upfront. Why should DVC then lose $ by paying upfront and waiting for you to pay...that cost and additional accounting/bookkeeping would be paid by all members through additional dues.QUOTE]

The interesting word in the above is LIKELY, do you know this, or is this just an assumption on your behalf, because if its not true then DVC can be gaining interest on this money if its paid in full up front. if so is this paid back to members to offset dues?

 

[going/again]

That's not really a common occurence though.

you do read the disboards? with that statement i'd guess not much

 

[Dean]

Of course you need to pay immediately. The contract isn't between you and the cruise line,The interesting word in the above is LIKELY, do you know this, or is this just an assumption on your behalf, because if its not true then DVC can be gaining interest on this money if its paid in full up front. if so is this paid back to members to offset dues?

To me it doesn't matter. They first decide on how they are going to administer this perk and then you and I decide whether to participate or not knowing those rules. I doubt income on the float is the reason for the decision. This is a very simple issue to avoid, simply don't use DVC for cruises either cash or points.

 

[dmoore22]

The other thing you left out with the DDP... IF not for the DDP, many of those people would probably also be going off property to eat at much cheaper prices... further strengthening your argument. heck, right down from DTD there is pretty much every chain restaurant you can imagine.

For us DDP became a ball and chain that guaranteed we would stay on property and, of course, spend our money on property. A rather sly marketing scheme which provides corporate Disney with a nice return on every "free" DDP handed out.