why buy dvc vs other timeshares

[the-boss]

hi, this is my first post, so apologies if this has been discussed already. i've read through pages of threads and done some searches and couldn't find this...but if it's discussed somewhere, please point me in the right direction.

earlier this year i did the research on dvc, spending time here going through the forums a couple of months ago and talking to some people i know who bought in. we were pretty close to buying at SSR in june while dvc was running the $87/point special. we have an 8 and 6 year old and have been to disney twice, though would like to go more frequently.

i was talking to a buddy of mine recently and he's in a marriott timeshare - i think one in south carolina and one in california. he convinced his parents and uncle to buy marriott timeshares. he told me i was crazy to buy into the dvc (and he had looked into it before buying marriott). his comments included:

1. dvc share expires depending on the property (which i knew), marriott timeshares don't expire (which i didn't know)
2. many more marriott resorts than dvc resorts = easier exchangability
3. advantage of marriott rewards benefits
4. he believes that out of network points transfer better from the marriott program

so it got me thinking, why exactly am i buying dvc...obviously the disney world experience is a big factor. but i could buy or trade into a marriott resort in orlando and go to disneyworld (granted you lose the benefits of being on a disney property).

i don't want to keep rambling but my question is, for those of you who explored other timeshare programs, particularly marriott, what made you choose dvc, and how would you assess the relative pros/cons of each?

thanks for your help.

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

We own other timeshares and we have been able to trade into DVC with those timeshares. However, there is no guarantee that we will get our trade and if do, it will probably be off season and not in a 2 bedroom. We did decide to purchase some DVC points, because my husband grew up staying onsite and no timeshare no matter how close to Disney property and no matter how beautiful will not do for him. He is an onsite Disney person or bust. So for us it was DVC.

Now will we use our DVC to travel other places? No, because using those points any place but Disney is not the best use of them nor the most economical. We have other timeshares for that purpose.

I am not good at putting links in this posts, so I won't even try, but if you do a search for the Timeshare Users Group, you will find lots of information on timesharing and the different systems.

My advice is to take your time and do your research and then no matter what you end up with you'll know its right for you.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Sorry, I don't sales pitch.

DVC was a good thing for me!

 

[Dean]

1. Partly true. Most Marriott's are deeded but not all. If this is important to you, consider something else. IMO, buying where you will use most of the time is the best choice as long as it has a reasonable useable life. I doubt I'll want to own any of the timeshare I do now if they were 50 years old.

2. Also partly true. Certainly more resorts and more exchange options. But you have to do a real timeshare exchange of a week to a week, pay the yearly II fee and pay for each exchange of between $79 and $149 depending on specifics. With DVC you can do a direct reservation at the 7 month window for any of the other resorts.

3 & 4. More like disadvantage of the marriott rewards points. Paying extra by buying from the developer to get Marriott reward points is almost always very stupid. But it depends in part on how you will use them. They are FF miles type points, for all the good and bad that comes with them. And you have to pay a fee to trade your week for the reward points. It's true that if you only use them for high cost options, you can do OK, but most people will get far less in value from their Marriott Rewards points than a DVC member would using them for the other exchange options. It's nice to have options but the value of reward points is usually very OVER RATED.

I love Marriott and own 3 weeks currently on HH for Platinum time. But like DVC, I'd only trade them for the cream of the crop options, otherwise I use or rent. Actually the two complement each other nicely so owning both can be a great choice. What's best for one isn't the same as another. DVC is a specialty purchase and reasonable ONLY for the following group. Those that will go to WDW most years, be neutral or light on using weekend points, and feel that staying on property has real value. It's an especially good value if you can do Sunday to Friday, need to go different times of the year and need different unit sizes over time. Marriott will work out far better for other exchanges, full week stays and if you always need a 2 BR. Even then all Marriott's are not created equal.

And there are very many other choices, some of which might be far better for some than either DVC or MVCI, depending on the specific needs of the family.

 

[JimC]

We also own both DVC and MVC.

Agree with most of what Dean says. Exception is I get very good value out of Marriott Rewards Points. But I get most of those from other travel, not the timeshare exchange. We bought developer for one week, and resale for the other two.

We bought Marriott for non-Disney vacations and use our DVC for Disney.

 

[Dean]

We also own both DVC and MVC.

Agree with most of what Dean says. Exception is I get very good value out of Marriott Rewards Points. But I get most of those from other travel, not the timeshare exchange. We bought developer for one week, and resale for the other two.

We bought Marriott for non-Disney vacations and use our DVC for Disney.

I do the same with the Marriott VISA but trading units for points are not a good value in general, still, it's good to have choices. It's funny that I bought 2 resale then 1 developer and in the developer purchase was able to change my two resale units into points units. I've been told it couldn't be done including by a couple of Marriott sales people but I did and have the paperwork to prove it. To me it was gravy as I'd likely never trade them for points.

 

[tamu91]

I was in your shoes this time last year before purchasing DVC. The biggest factor for us was WDW and flexibility but I'm sure everyone has their own needs so you do your homework and see what's best for you.
Frr DVC to make sense, you have to like going to WDW on a regular basis. Do you or would you make WDW your regular vacation destination? If the answer is NO or MAYBE, you should look elsewhere.

1. dvc share expires depending on the property (which i knew), marriott timeshares don't expire (which i didn't know)

TRUE, most timeshares (Marriott, HGVC, Westin, etc.) don't have deeds that expire but here is a question for your friend. How many people does he know that has owned a timeshare for more than 50 years? There are no absolute guarantee that Marriott resort you purchase today will be Marriott tomorrow. Same for DVC but even if DVC were to be sold, it will still be the only timeshare property within WDW.

2. many more marriott resorts than dvc resorts = easier exchangability

Again True but most people buy DVC because we like going to WDW and don't care to trade out all that often

3. advantage of marriott rewards benefits

Isn't this case only if purchased directly from Marriott. I wonder what the difference is between direct purchase and resale.

DVC and Marriott are both great products and you can't really go wrong with either one so good luck on your purchase.

 

[Caskbill]

We own both DVC and Marriott and both are good programs. However there are a few other things you might want to know:

1. dvc share expires depending on the property (which i knew), marriott timeshares don't expire (which i didn't know)
2. many more marriott resorts than dvc resorts = easier exchangability
3. advantage of marriott rewards benefits
4. he believes that out of network points transfer better from the marriott program

1.True, but do you want to own a 50 year old resort? Do you want to stick your heirs with an ownership they don't want and may have trouble selling. Would you buy a resort today that was built in 1955? As resorts age if the management wants to update everything, there will be special accessments for the owners to pay.

2. True, but there is a $79 fee to change between Marriott resorts. There is no fee with Disney to use a non Home-Resort DVC unit. Marriott also charges a $79 fee to split your room. If you own a 2-B/R and want to split it into a 1-B/R for one week, and a Studio for another week, there is a fee. Disney has no fees and you can get a Studio, 1-B/R, 2-B/R 3-B/R as your needs change. Also, if you change to a Marriott resort that is outside the US, the fee is even higher. So if you own a 2-B/R unit for a week in the Midwest, and want to use it as a 1-B/R unit in Orlando for a week, and as a Studio in California for another week, it will cost you $237 in fees.

3. You can exchange your regular week for Marriott reward points and stay in regular Marriott hotels. If you compare the annual maintenance fees you pay and how many Marriott reward points you can get for trading in your unit, you'll find you're actually paying quite a bit per point, much more than you get for equivalent points such as airline miles, etc.

4. Marriott uses II just like Disney uses. You trade a week for a week. Disney uses a weeks worth of points for the trade. Marriott uses your regular week for the trade. Not much difference in my opinion.

Some other things to consider:
1. Disney allows any length of stay from a single day on up. Marriott you own a week and so get a week at a time. You do have the option to split it in some cases to a 4-day week and a 3-day week. Applicable additional fees apply. So Disney is anything from 1 day on up. Marriott is 3-days, 4 days, 7 days. BTW, the 4-day is M-T, and the 3-Day is Fri/Sat/Sun. No other choices.

2. Depending on where you buy, Marriott can be a lot more expensive than Disney. On the flip side, buying Marriott resale can be quite a bit cheaper since Marriott timeshares have not held value near as well as Disney DVC. Keep in mind if you buy Marriott resale, you are not eligible to ever change your regular week into Marriott reward points making resale purchasers slightly different from direct purchasers. When you buy Disney resale, you are no different than any other DVC member.

3. With Disney you can bank points into the next year. There is no banking with Marriott. If you can't use your points one year with Marriott you actually deposit them into an exchange, even if you want to exchange into your home resort. Fee applies.

4. Marriott does have more timeshares so if you really want to stay at different places that's a plus. Remember fees apply.

5. For Disney all points cost the same and you just buy as many as you want. You can 'spend' them in different seasons, thus conserving points in Adventure season, or going all out in Premier season. With Marriott you buy a specific color week. The off-seasons are cheaper than the high seasons. Some places such as Hawaii are considered high season year round. If you save money by purchasing a low season resort somewhere, remember your trading power is diminished, even for trading to other Marriotts. Don't expect to buy a little out of the way place in off-season and expect to trade it for highly desirable exclusive places in high season.

6. With Marriott, if you want to trade at all, you must join II which is I think is still $79/year. (We purchased multi-year a couple of years ago which is a slight discount). With Disney you are not a direct member of II.

7. A plus to owning II is you can purchase member getaways as they are available. Some can be quite cheap being less than maintenance fees might be for a particular resort, while others are much higher. If you want decent quality expect to pay $700-$900 for a week which is about what maintenance fees would normally run. The nice thing about getaways is you can buy as many as you want, or none at all. I have noticed though that they are hard to find during high and summer seasons. If you can travel off season there are much better deals. Keep in mind this is an II thing and not a Marriott thing.

Can't think of anything else, so now here's my 2 cents: If you want to go to Disney then buy DVC and don't mess with Marriott. If you consider all the ways you can use DVC for stays, resorts, seasons, accommodations, plus the benefits of being on property so you have busses, free parking at the parks, numerous discount programs, etc, then DVC is the only way to go.

However if you will only be going to WDW on occassions and really want to go to numerous other resorts around the country or around the world, then Marriott would give you more options. Just keep in mind that Marriott has lots of fees to exchanges to other Marriotts, whereas Disney has none. Actually to clarify, all the fees are II fees and not Marriott fees. All Marriott exchanges are done through II. If you want a Marriott that you will never exchange and will stay at the same resort every year, then you don't have to join II and there would be no fees. (No fees at all to book and stay at your home resort).

Don't know if I covered everything but it's probably the lion's share. I may have quoted some fees incorrectly ($79, or $75 or something like that. And somewhere around $119 or $129 to exchange overseas)

 

[DonnaL]

One point I haven't seen yet is renting or transferring your points during a year you may decide to vacation elsewhere and use any monies received toward that vacatioin. I don't know if you are allowed to rent/transfer with Marriott as you are with DVC. We have never rented or transferred yet, but,
who knows if we will 10 or 15 years down the road.

 

[Dean]

Don't know if I covered everything but it's probably the lion's share. I may have quoted some fees incorrectly ($79, or $75 or something like that. And somewhere around $119 or $129 to exchange overseas)

Current DVC exchange fees are $75 & $95 depending on the option though some have NO fees. Marriott II fees are $79 internal exchange, $129 to non Marriott's and $149 international. It's interesting that they charge you on what you request, not what you get. For example, if you list 3 resorts, 1 Marriott, one USA non Marriott and one Intl. non Marriott, the exchange fee is $149 even if you get the Marriott.

One point I haven't seen yet is renting or transferring your points during a year you may decide to vacation elsewhere and use any monies received toward that vacatioin. I don't know if you are allowed to rent/transfer with Marriott as you are with DVC. We have never rented or transferred yet, but,
who knows if we will 10 or 15 years down the road.

You can rent and exchange privately with Marriott (and other timeshares as well. How easily depends on what you own. I own DVC 565 points and the 3 Marriott's. I never exchange them, I only rent them or use them. I'd only exchange for top choices or if I got additional considerations for lessor options.

 

[Pootle]

Buying into Marriott is something I consider from time to time (I did join TUG too) and I found the information here really useful. So thanks to Caskbill and Dean in particular for taking the time to answer the OP so thoroughly.

 

[gjw007]

hi, this is my first post, so apologies if this has been discussed already. i've read through pages of threads and done some searches and couldn't find this...but if it's discussed somewhere, please point me in the right direction.

earlier this year i did the research on dvc, spending time here going through the forums a couple of months ago and talking to some people i know who bought in. we were pretty close to buying at SSR in june while dvc was running the $87/point special. we have an 8 and 6 year old and have been to disney twice, though would like to go more frequently.

i was talking to a buddy of mine recently and he's in a marriott timeshare - i think one in south carolina and one in california. he convinced his parents and uncle to buy marriott timeshares. he told me i was crazy to buy into the dvc (and he had looked into it before buying marriott). his comments included:

1. dvc share expires depending on the property (which i knew), marriott timeshares don't expire (which i didn't know)
2. many more marriott resorts than dvc resorts = easier exchangability
3. advantage of marriott rewards benefits
4. he believes that out of network points transfer better from the marriott program

so it got me thinking, why exactly am i buying dvc...obviously the disney world experience is a big factor. but i could buy or trade into a marriott resort in orlando and go to disneyworld (granted you lose the benefits of being on a disney property).

i don't want to keep rambling but my question is, for those of you who explored other timeshare programs, particularly marriott, what made you choose dvc, and how would you assess the relative pros/cons of each?

thanks for your help.

I don't own a Marriott and others who own Marriotts have responded so I will not comment directly on Marriotts. Unless you enjoy going to Orlando on a yearly or every-other-year basis, it makes no sense to purchase DVC. It was designed to provide vacation lodging for those who regularly go to Disney.

Issue 1, deeded versus non-deeded property. Ultimately this becomes a wash. The first time I came across a right-to-use (RTU) rather than a deeded property, there was 5 years left in the contract. Needless to say, my response was why would anybody buy something that expired. I then became acquainted with vacation clubs (and DVC follows a lot of this format) where you were allowed to use the available property within the stipulations of the contract agreement for so many years and had no obligations at the end of the period. In effect, you were prepaying for your vacations at a given rate without the long-term obligations. The advantage was that you were given multiple choices of where to stay but at the end, you could have paid for a timeshare and owned it at the end. So the question, other than the initial do you travel to Orlando, is what is the value of the timeshare during the contract term. DVC is very long, 50 years from the start with ending dates of 2042 for most of the resorts except SSR which is 2054. How does this compare with the value of the timeshare during the same period? I'm not looking at prices (and we can haggle over this figure til the cows come home) but value and only you can determine the value based on how you use the property. The only person that can detemrine this value is you.

It has been suggested that who would want to own a 50 year old resort. Ironically, I think DVC members would based on the desire by many DVC members on this board to have DVC at the Contemporary which is somewhere around 35 years old. The positives and the negatives of a 50 year old resort can be seen by looking at two timeshares in Orlando, Sheraton's Vistana Resort and Orange Lake. Vistana started in the late 70s and Orange Lake in '82 so both resorts are mature, both resorts have an older section which gets negative reviews and newer sections which get great reviews. The appeal of the newer sections is obvious because they are new while the problems with the older sections reflect the concerns that have been expressed by others. For Orange Lake, the older section can be seen in the picture below. I have stayed in them without issues. All the newer units are high-rise and lose some of the appeal, in my opinion, but this is getting off track. Still, the maintenance fees were suppose to keep these properties up-to-date but the schedule is also designed to lower the cost of ownership. While on paper, it may appear that doing a major remodeling every 15 to 18 years is enough, many vacationers are rough on the property and this time may need to be shorten. This is true for DVC as well as traditional timeshares. A result of shortening the time would be higher maintenance fees. You know where this is going as most owners try to keep the fees down. This can be seen by things such as not having daily maid service.

The problems of an older timeshare can also be seen by a timeshare that I went to last summer. It was okay, nothing fancy but it was clean and convenient to the lake and my family. The original developers lost money on the project and quit dropping everything on the existing owners. They have picked the ball and kept it running but clearly they don't have the resources for any major project. There can't be more then 50 or 75 units on the property so it is quite small. If the estimates for the maintenance fees are correct, they should be able to keep up with maintaining the units but in 50 years, who knows what it will be like. I don't think there is a concern with DVC (or Vistana or Orange Lake for that matter) during this period, but not all timeshares have the necessary resources. This can also be seen by the various timeshares that experienced difficulties following last years hurricanes (Alhambra being assisted by the Berkley Group is an example - the resort was closed 8 months for rehab)

Marriott Rewards may have some value but you get this when you buy direct. I could be wrong (Dean will correct me) but I don't think many resales come with the rewards program. So the question then is the value of the rewards program worth $10,000 or $15,000, the difference between buying directly from the developer or from the resale market? Most people would say no.

My response is longer than intended but Dean had made a comment a while back and I think it is wise. Spend 6 months educating yourself before making a decision. A finance instructor of mine suggested setting up a portfolio of stocks and play with them over the course of a year. If you make a mistake, it costs you nothing but provides excellent teaching. If you had purchased the portfolio, the losses could hurt. Do the same thing with timeshares and determine whether it is right for you. The right thing might not be to purchase a timeshare at all given skyauctions and other sites where you can get your vacation for roughly what owners pay for the maintenance fees (sometimes less, sometimes more).

 

[tjkraz]

but i could buy or trade into a marriott resort in orlando and go to disneyworld (granted you lose the benefits of being on a disney property).

That pretty much says it all. If you're satisfied with staying off-site, so be it. I may one day buy another TS for trips elsewhere. But for Disney, DVC was the only option, IMO.

 

[Man_Of_Leisure]

I agree with tjkraz. We travel to WDW twice annually. DVD offers the flexability both in time, by allowing for various lengths of stay, and in accommodations, by offering several resort choices. And they are on-property. A big plus for us becuase we enjoy WDW.

We just purchased at SSR in March and our first trip home will be New Years. I've requested a DTD view so that we can enjoy the holiday lights and sounds from across the lake. I can't wait to go.

But back to your question regarding which one to buy. I looked at Fairfield back in 2000 and purchased a trial one-year membership. We went to Gatlinburg for our presentation and then visited Star Island and Cypress Gardens in Orlando as well as Patriots Place in Williamsburg. We loved it but I didn't buy. We were saving for a new house and were not ready for that commitment. We also looked at Disney, but at the time the DVD 40 year ownership did not appeal to me.

Five years and over a dozen trips later to Orlando I am now a SSR owner. I will say though that I am strongly considering a Fairfield resorts puchase to supplement our vacation needs. We do like to travel on long weekends and there are several places that we would like to go. Fairfield also offers the flexiabilty in length of stay (you don't have to stay a week), room size, and location (there are resorts all over the US, many within driving distance from my home). Also, there are some great resale deals on many of their resorts.

Remember, if your vacation plans are like many of us here, then you could go with a smaller DVC purchase, direct or resale, and if necessary bank and borrow points to stay on-properties every other year. Then you could purchase in another timeshare program to cover your other vacation needs.

Bottom line, as tjkraz said, if staying off-site will do then go with whoever and whatever program you feel comfortable with; however, if you want the whole Disney experience and you're in the market for a timeshare I highly recommend DVC.

Man_Of_Leisure

 

[CarolA]

I bought because I wanted to stay ON Disney property every time (not near) and I really liked the point system. (When I bought that was not real popular, the closest I could find was the Marriott seasons program)

As for ownership. I'll be in my 80's when OKW expires and 90's when SSR. Who cares? It is not my job to leave anyone ANYTHING! (My goal is to run out of money as I die!)

 

[laceemouse]

We own another T/S that we trade through RCI to go all over. When we go to WDW we want to stay on property, so we bought DVC to be sure that we get what we want when we want it. Works beautifully!!!

 

[LisaR]

I do not know much about Marriott's program. We looked at it briefly when we were deciding what to buy. It came down to two very simple things when we were looking for a timeshare:

1. We wanted to stay ON Disney property. You can't do that with Marriott and for us, that wasn't a good thing.

2. We wanted to travel whenever we wanted to. We did not want to commit to a certain week. Schedules change all the time for us. We have kids that get sick, have recitals and tournaments and other commitments. We didn't want to have to go for one week in April every year when that may not work out for us.

I would say that if you do not care about staying on Disney property, then DVC probably isn't right for you. Good luck!

Lisa

 

[stingmom]

Is Marriott the same as the rest of the timeshares where you are purchasing a specific week of every year? With DVC, you purchase points that can be used any time. So, if we decide to go during spring one year and summer the next and winter the next, it doesn't matter. We use our points where (a nice list of options!) and when we want to. We love that flexibility!

 

[1000th happy haunt]

I was most impressed with the flexibility of DVC. DH and I like to attend Disney events (like the Happy Haunts Event), and the package we normally buy comes with a room for a couple of days. With DVC we'll be able "fill out" the week without losing anything. And we're hoping to take a vacation next year with some friends, and we'll be able to share a two-bedroom villa. But when it's only the two of us, we can choose a studio or one-bedroom instead.

It was also important to us that we can stay on Disney property and take advantage of the extra magic hours. And a big selling point for us was that DVC members get a discount on AP purchases.

I don't know anything about other timeshare programs, so I don't know what kind of flexibility they have. But I do like the way the DVC is set up.

 

[iankh]

As for ownership. I'll be in my 80's when OKW expires and 90's when SSR. Who cares? It is not my job to leave anyone ANYTHING! (My goal is to run out of money as I die!)

I thought about this a lot before I bought a resale and I second what Carol says. I'll be 50 this summer, when my share of VWL expires I'll be about 85, who really cares? I'm not living what time I have on earth based on what benefits someone gets when I die.