Why all the union bashing?

[yasmina]

I'm starting this thread so that the thread on teacher's strikes does't get hijacked on this issue. And it's not just this thread. I've seen other threads about teachers where the unions are taken to the wood shed.

The fact is that, without unions, teachers would still be making starting salaries of $8,000/yr. (or it's equivalent in '07 $'s) or when I started 20 yrs. ago $12,500. My then dh (well, maybe not so d) - my age, same level of education, started at $36,000 in a different profession. Hmm, where's the difference?

Teachers would still be fired at the end of each school year, then MAYBE rehired for the next year if someone better didn't come along.

These are just 2 examples of what unions have done for the teaching profession. And NO, at least in PA, we are not FORCED to join the union. We do have to pay "fair share", which is the local's portions of the dues in exchange for the benefits the union has negotiated. If there is a strike, no one prevents the non-union members from going to work, but who would they teach?

Maybe - just maybe - if MORE professions organized, they wouldn't see their wages stagnate and their healthcare costs rise while their employers demand more work out of them in less time.

Quit whining and UNIONIZE!

 

[MoniqueU]

Well firing the bad teachers at the end of the year if something better came along would not be a problem for me. Neither is asking teachers to pay a portion of their healthcare costs. Neither is the fact that they get raises not every year, Welcome to the real world where that is common place. And the teachers in CA have some of the best retirements around. MY MIL was a GOOD teacher for 30 some odd years and her retirement fund keeps her going on many exotic trips a year. Add to that all the time off for a full time salary and I don't really feel too sorry for teachers. I wouldnt want to do their job ever but I am not snowballed by the teachers make such low pay arguement either.

 

[Honu]

There was a time when unions were needed. Those were the days before employment laws.

If you don't like your pay, benefits, etc., go find another job. Or go back to school and learn to do something else. When enough employees leave, employers start to grasp the whole competitive wages and benefits thing. Plenty of people are making very good livings without the assistance of a union.

Holding an employer hostage with demands of what you think you are worth, is beyond obnoxious IMO.

 

[Cool-Beans]

It is my opinion that if you don't like your job you should go get another one. If you don't like what you're paid, go find a job that will pay you more.

The unions make me especially pissed off when they take money from people who make very little to begin with, like hotel maids. Those people need their money.

And tell the folks who worked in the steel industry how great the union is.

 

[C.Ann]

In some professions they can be a good thing - in others, a disaster.. I watched a company that had been in business since the late 1800's go under due to unrealistic demands by union reps.. In the end the unionized workers lost as much (if not more) than the company did when they had to shut down.. Many, many workers lost not only their jobs, but their health insurance, their homes, their spouses, and careers that easily would have remained intact until the day they died.. Some turned to drugs and alcohol - many became seriously depressed - and several even committed suicide.. To make matters worse, this wasn't a profession where they were an abundance of careers in the same field so the workers could just go out and get a new job.. A small number were able to snatch up the few available jobs in the same field, but the majority had to retrain for entirely new careers at an age where employers weren't jumping through hoops to hire them.. It took most of the formerly unionized workers a minimum of 3 to 5 years to retrain, be hired by new employers, and even attempt to rebuild their lives..

 

[yasmina]

My dad died 2 years ago a retired steel worker and he thought it was great.

 

[kennancat]

And NO, at least in PA, we are not FORCED to join the union. We do have to pay "fair share", which is the local's portions of the dues in exchange for the benefits the union has negotiated.

Born and raised in Florida (a right-to-work state) so I admit to being ignorant about how union laws work in other states. When you mention "fair share", are you saying that even if I choose not to join the union, I still owe them money?

 

[Sleeping~Beauty]

I completely disagree with the OP. I am speaking about the teacher's union only though. I live in NJ, and was a teacher, and this is how I feel. I think there was a time they were needed, but now a lot of them have gone way too far.

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

Well firing the bad teachers at the end of the year if something better came along would not be a problem for me. Neither is asking teachers to pay a portion of their healthcare costs. Neither is the fact that they get raises not every year, Welcome to the real world where that is common place. And the teachers in CA have some of the best retirements around. MY MIL was a GOOD teacher for 30 some odd years and her retirement fund keeps her going on many exotic trips a year. Add to that all the time off for a full time salary and I don't really feel too sorry for teachers. I wouldnt want to do their job ever but I am not snowballed by the teachers make such low pay arguement either.

Very well said!!
(how about those CHARGERS!!)

 

[Nancy]

I'll stay non-union thank you.

 

[RitaZ.]

Maybe - just maybe - if MORE professions organized, they wouldn't see their wages stagnate and their healthcare costs rise while their employers demand more work out of them in less time.

Quit whining and UNIONIZE!

If unions have done so much good for teachers, how come one of the most frequent complaints from teachers is that their salaries are too low?

 

[helenabear]

At a job I was at, we were being forced into the union. If we opted out, we still had to pay into it. And then if something happened to us as non-union we were screwed. So we had to pay, got no benefits of it other than if they strike we didn't have to strike.
We were going to get a salary cut, but a better health insurance price OOP. The crappy thing is if you opted out of insurance like many of us did, we'd take a $5-10K pay cut in the end.

Not all unions are good for people. I was glad that it was ruled that what they were doing was illegal.

Unions can be good, but they can be very detrimental to both the workers and the company they are working for. Personally I would never want to join one. I like the freedom to do what I want and don't need anyone to "fight" for me. It sucks for non-unions in companies who wind up getting laid off quicker just because they aren't "union" as well. I find that to be horrible (and yes, I witnessed that first hand). I also think it sucks when they strike, management has to pick up for them. In one personal case I know of, the managent was making less money than some of the union and were doing a far better job on the line. So I don't think they are all that great.

 

[yasmina]

Born and raised in Florida (a right-to-work state) so I admit to being ignorant about how union laws work in other states. When you mention "fair share", are you saying that even if I choose not to join the union, I still owe them money?

Yes, but a much smaller amount than if you join the union. Like I said, it is for the benefits that the union has already negotiated. When you are hired by a school district, you and the district are obligated to abide by the terms of the contract even if you choose not to join the union.

 

[yasmina]

If unions have done so much good for teachers, how come one of the most frequent complaints from teachers is that their salaries are too low?

Because we have a long way to go. I'm not complaining now about my salary, but it's only taken me 20 yrs. to get there. I would accept a lower salary IF I had been paid more equitably (to starting salaries in other professions) when I was younger. We're talking about life-time earnings here.

 

[FayeW]

Unions out lived their usefullness a long time ago.

 

[yasmina]

Unions out lived their usefullness a long time ago.

Why do you say that?

 

[Cool-Beans]

Born and raised in Florida (a right-to-work state) so I admit to being ignorant about how union laws work in other states. When you mention "fair share", are you saying that even if I choose not to join the union, I still owe them money?

You don't owe them money. If your question is, "Will they take it out my check against my will?" the answer is: Yes.

 

[firstmickey]

OP...if you live near Pgh...then I'm sure you have heard of the SV teachers strike going on right now. Our kids have been on strike for 3 weeks and it's solving NOTHING. There are NO negotiations going on right now. No meetings. No bargaining. The only thing it is doing is causing anger, pain, and turmoil. It's affecting many people financially and emotionally.

The union's demands are completely ridiculous. They bring nothing in writing to any of the previous meetings that have occurred. The school board brings 3-4 written proposals and the union brings nothing then they all storm out. They are asking for a 6.3% raise (they started at 7.8%) and they don't wish to PAY ANYTHING for their healthcare. Their union rep makes his big show on the radio...big media blitz blah blah blah. When he receives an offer from the school board ...he doesnt even take it back to the teachers for a vote.

We've eaten through Thanksgiving and Christmas vacation so far and extended the end of the year to June 15th. The teacher will be forced to go back to school Nov 16th and then they can go on strike again next semester. This will finish off the last of our vacation for the school year and make us go to school until June 30th.


as a parent, I am FURIOUS over this. I'm not saying teachers should not get a raise or fair salary but the offered 4% increase with $10 a pay towards healthcare is more than reasonable IMO. Most parents in the school district feel the same way as I do also.

In fact, we are so angry that we have all been working to pass a bill to make PA a no strike state along with one of our state reps. We have petitions meetings, etc going on to help this along.

so ....teachers union?...no thank you! I'll pass.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Obviously, some of you haven't worked for a company that would replace you as soon as look at you as soon as you made "too much money". Almost everybody in my department is at top scale. We have almost ALL been here 15+ years. If not for my union, absolutely ZERO people would be at top scale.... ZERO. They would have fired us way before we could get there.

That said, we do have some people who SHOULD be fired, and are not because of union protection. That sucks too. Why? Because it makes so many people who are not in unions angry about unions in the first place.

So, IMO, you can't make a blanket statement pro or con UNLESS you know both sides.

 

[firstmickey]

I am a union RN employee. I see the good and the bad in it. But if I had my choice...I'd rather NOT be union.