Why all the union bashing?

[mickeysgal]

After 25 years on the job, they made him work overnights and weekends, AND took him off the job that he was so good at. So, now, he hardly ever sees his wife and kids. But the union has no control over this, so the employer did what it wanted to him. But he is at top scale, and he was making good money.... so he felt like he had to stay.

My DB is 43 years old and has been working his union job all his life. He has never worked a day shift, he never gets a full weekend off. He works a complete backwards schedule from his wife. He has yet to have a holiday off or a premium summer vacation week because after all these years he still lacks the senority.

 

[Papa Deuce]

My DB is 43 years old and has been working his union job all his life. He has never worked a day shift, he never gets a full weekend off. He works a complete backwards schedule from his wife. He has yet to have a holiday off or a premium summer vacation week because after all these years he still lacks the senority.

Pretty close to the same for me. Though I only have 15 years seniority,

 

[Banshee]

Obviously, some of you haven't worked for a company that would replace you as soon as look at you as soon as you made "too much money". Almost everybody in my department is at top scale. We have almost ALL been here 15+ years. If not for my union, absolutely ZERO people would be at top scale.... ZERO. They would have fired us way before we could get there.

That said, we do have some people who SHOULD be fired, and are not because of union protection. That sucks too. Why? Because it makes so many people who are not in unions angry about unions in the first place.

So, IMO, you can't make a blanket statement pro or con UNLESS you know both sides.

Thank you! My DH is in the Union (not teacher) and the industry he is in is a tough one if not for the Union he we would have no benefits or benefits that were terrible. His pay would most definitely be at the bottom of the scale, and there would be no job security for him. I am thankful every day that my Dad got my DH in the union and paid for his book. We have excellent benefits my Dh has a wonderful pension plan and he receives a fair wage for a job well done. He also can get laid off he doesn't though unless the Co. has absolutely nothing for him to do. We have seen plenty of Union guys get laid off. And those that say "so you don't like it get a new job or go back to school" that is not possible for all people. That and my DH loves the industry he is in. He went to college he worked for my dad while he was in college but enjoyed doing what he was doing for my dad so much he decided to do it full time. I also agree with other poster's not all unions are the same. Some are bad such as state employee's here in NJ and some like my friends husband he can't get the time of day from his union they do not represent him. So I am not defending all Unions just the ones that actually do work and care about their members.

 

[Charade]

Obviously, some of you haven't worked for a company that would replace you as soon as look at you as soon as you made "too much money". Almost everybody in my department is at top scale. We have almost ALL been here 15+ years. If not for my union, absolutely ZERO people would be at top scale.... ZERO. They would have fired us way before we could get there.

But do those people deserve to be at top scale? Are they worth that much? Are they only worth that much because of the union contract? Could you get a non-union job doing exactly the same thing that paid the same amount?

I'm near the top of my pay scale and I'm not union. Been at my company for over 25 years. Am I worried that my company could replace me with a lower paid worker? Sure. I make sure I show my worth to the company. But more than likely, they would move me into a lower paying "dept" and stagnate my pay. In some cases they could move me to another division and reduce my pay. Or I could leave and find another job.

My dif's company just went union (glazers) and what a mess. The attitude of the union workers in eye opening. They've "fired" so many union workers in the past few months it's shocking. They are then replaced with other boneheads.

 

[Charade]

Not really in this case... Bottom scale... $375ish a week. Top scale... $1200ish a week. They would make that up in no time at all. That's a difference of $42,900 a year per employee. I'm thinking you might have been in a union once and didn't like that someone you thought should be fired, wasn't, because of union protection. Maybe I am wrong.

Let me give you another scenario. And this is 100% true.

We have an UNBELIEVABLY talented guy who works for us. He was in 4 car accidents while on the road / job. All 4 were not his fault, as per police reports. He also had a van broken into and all his equipment was stolen. He was the only one in the truck. He had to leave ( to go in a building for the job ) and so he locked the doors and went to do part of his job. Our employer tried to fire him. The union stuck up for him and he retained his job.

But what DID happen after that is reprehensible, IMO. After 25 years on the job, they made him work overnights and weekends, AND took him off the job that he was so good at. So, now, he hardly ever sees his wife and kids. But the union has no control over this, so the employer did what it wanted to him. But he is at top scale, and he was making good money.... so he felt like he had to stay.

ETA: This guy also was in his van, doing his job one time, when angry people FLIPPED HIS VAN OVER, with him in it. He was chastised for not leaving the scene quickly enough. According to him, things seemed somewhat peaceful, just prior to the incident, and then it all exploded around him.

Man, that guy has some bad juju surrounding him.

 

[mickeysgal]

Pretty close to the same for me. Though I only have 15 years seniority,

What I don't like is that no matter how good you are at your job or conversely no matter how bad you are at the job, none of that seems to matter. The only driving force is senority for pay, vacation bidding, etc. Where is the incentive to be an outstanding, steller employee when you are rewarded on the same pace as the average worker? I think in many cases (not all!), unions breed complacency among workers.

 

[DVC Sadie]

My grandfather was a union laborer who felt his union stood up for him.

My dad was a teacher (when teachers made very little) who became a negotiator for the treacher's union, and he says it has gone way to far.

My BIL is a union grocery worker who pays plenty of dues and can't get a return call from his union. Sometimes he works 21 days without a day off, gets grief for taking a lunch break (he's a diabetic), so his union is pretty useless.

That being said, I have no problem with unions for private sector employees. I can choose not to buy products if the price is too high.

However, unions for professions funded by taxpayers have been a recipe for fiscal disaster in NJ. The only party who has no say in the negotiations here in NJ is the taxpayer. The Governor is (or was) in bed (literally) with the state employees union. The unions give HUGE bucks to political campaigns. The unions make their demands publicly, make their deals privately, the politicians line their pockets and the taxpayers get screwed.

When we vote down another outrageous school budget here, the school board takes off a couple of dollars and submits it to the state department of ed who "passes" it. I have no idea why we waste money (more taxpayer dollars) to vote on school budgets.

Those we know who are state workers (several friends and family) have truly been brainwashed by their union. They seriously believe that everyone in the private sector makes high six figures, gets months of vacation time, fully paid health benefits, pensions, flexible hours, etc etc etc. They claim they are paid so little that they must have guaranteed pensions and healthy care for life (at taxpayer expense). In reality, state employees in NJ are in many cases paid more than private sector workers. When the bennies are factored in, the state workers are living large. And now they are whining because the Governor has decided to make them work the day after Thanksgiving. Boo hoo hoo.

My brother works for a state agency (part of the handicapped program). In the 20 years he has been there, he has been harrassed and threatened by a co-worker, seen a supervisor held at knifepoint by another worker and watched others eat snacks for a living. None of those people have been fired yet, thanks to the union.

When NJ (already in dire fiscal condition) has to come up with more billions for public employee pensions and health care next year, taxpayers may finally revolt.

Great post and I agree. The teachers unions have "gone too far".

The reason why the teachers unions get away with striking and holding up states such as NJ (by tax increases) is that the Teachers Union is one of the biggest and strongest lobbyists in the country.

Why doesn't the union cough up some of the collected dues to help the teachers pay for their healthcare or collect less dues to allow teachers to keep some of the money they already earned?

 

[mickeysgal]

Most corporations live & die by the current quarter earnings, long term goals & responsibility are not even thought of any more.

Very true.

Many companies no longer value loyalty and turn over management routinely all the way up and down the management chain. What I've seen are management folks that know that they're not going to be around in 5 or 10 years, so the decisions being made are short-sighted with the only goal being this year's bonuses and stock options.