Who's Being Unreasonable?

[Imzadi]

Why did this thread become about all of YOU? And what YOU would do?

The OP didn't ask:
What would YOU do?
What is YOUR Christmas situation like?
Would YOU leave your spouse on Christmas?

Most of YOU didn't even read the OP right. She is not spending Christmas alone, she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD , plus her 2 kids.

DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine. (Or so he says.) Just no out of the country. So Canada is out, too.


Most of you are arguing amongst yourselves, and it isn't even about the OP. But what each of YOU said YOU would do, or what the other poster would do, NOT about what the OP said.

I don't think what I would do or "So and so" would do really matters. It just depends on your family dynamics.

I grew up in the restaurant business - The Christmas Holidays' was one of the busiest week's of the year. My parents worked non stop, from morning to night and once we reached the age of 13 we worked from morning till night during the Christmas week as well. So while we enjoy Christmas, it's not as big a deal to us as it is to many others.
Obviously the OP's family feels the same way about it. Unless you've worked that type of lifestyle, it's hard to understand - but honestly, there are many families out there that don't consider it a big deal. He's going to be working long shifts and coming home wanting to sleep so the kids are going to have to tip toe around so as not to disturb him. Yes, the 6 year old may remember the trip as the one daddy wasn't there - or the 6 year old may remember it as the trip that he got to play with cousins/aunts/uncles etc.... on a cruise. OP has already said that they will be celebrating Christmas with her DH and his family the week before.

Finally the first two sane replies. Acklander post was #95.

But this is not about you.

Yes, another person who can read!

What I have learned from this thread-

1. Traveling w/out a spouse is sad.
2. Traveling with a spouse is sexist.
3. Traveling at Christmas is sad.
4. Not traveling at Christmas is sad.
5. Passports are easy to renew.
6. Passports are difficult to renew.
7. If you think something is irrational everybody must think it is irrational or they are irrational.
8. The Bahamas seem like a nice place to travel to at Christmas.
9. When a spouse doesn't want you to travel out of the country with the kids they are controlling.
10. When a spouse doesn't mind if you take the kids to the moon they don't care.
11. It is a horror to leave anyone at Christmas.
12. It is a horror if you don't want to leave anyone at Christmas.

I am sure I am forgetting something but I think I covered it.

OP- whatever your setup for the holidays is is irrelevant.

IRRELEVANT to most DISers who posted.


Can you tell I have my period? Oops! I posted about ME instead.

 

[ICF]

Why did this thread become about all of YOU? And what YOU would do?

Since nobody here knows the OP or her husband, how can anyone offer input besides saying what THEY would do in the situation???

 

[goofy4tink]

Thanks for asking your DH...interesting answer! I'm actually a little surprised my DH freaked out like he did.

To answer your question...older DD has been to the Bahamas and on a cruise, so he's not really missing a "first" for her, maybe the baby. My daughter has experienced plenty of things/places without Daddy, and although I'm sure they'd love him to be there, she loves telling him all about her "adventures" when she gets home.

BUT, I did ask him about the possibility of going earlier in the week so he could go with us, and he wasn't too interested - just kept suggesting we do something else. Spending any length of time on a ship with my family isn't exactly his idea of relaxing, I guess!

And by the way, my passport is expired as well, and the kids don't have them. We don't need them to cruise (I know it's a good idea to have them...but that's another debate we don't need started on here!)

No need for a debate, but....if your dh is concerned about being able to get to you and the kids if there were to be an emergency, there could also be an issue with you or the kids getting out if there were to be an emergency. Passports aren't so much needed on 'loop' type cruises...but, if you found you needed to get home, from say Nassau, you wouldn't be able to since you don't have a passport...at least that's how it was explained to me. If you are flying out of another country, back into the US, you need a passport. That would be my concern...you should have something in hand that will enable you to return to the US if you have to do it in some other way than the cruise.

I have to say that if your dh has a huge issue with the kids not leaving the country, without him, then it may be time to look into another type vacation without him. Surely there is something else you could do.

 

[Imzadi]

Since nobody here knows the OP or her husband, how can anyone offer input besides saying what THEY would do in the situation???

You go by the info given. Or you ask for clarification about HER situation.

People projected their OWN cr*p onto this situation and it was even real to the OP.

She didn't ask what was reasonable for you (general you.) She asked SPECIFICALLY whether HER DH, not YOUR DH (general yours) was being reasonable.

Oprah had a whole episode on how education was degrading in America yesterday. Judging by this thread, as no one seem literate enough to read the actual OP, pick details about the OP, analyze the OP's situation, and not insert your own stuff, I guess Oprah was right. I learned to read and pick stuff out of the reading material to support arguments & theories in 6th grade. You guys can't do that? 10 pages, and about only 7 posters who can do this.


I REPEAT:

In case people do not understand, the words between " " are actual sentences of the OP.

She is not spending Christmas alone, "she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD, plus her 2 kids."

"He doesn't care if we go somewhere without him - he just wants it to be "in the country"."
He didn't say don't go anywhere. I want you home or within 20 miles. That's all your projection/insertion/reinterpretation.


DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine.

"He's suggested Atlanta, Key West, the mountains."


"I'm not sure I need to defend my choice about taking the kids away from home w/out DH on Christmas since that's not the issue, but FWIW, we were originally planning on going somewhere else ("in the country") and he had NO problem with that at all."

They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"My husband has to work over the holiday,"
"If you've never worked a nightshift before or had a family member that did, it's hard to appreciate just wanting to sleep, whether it's Xmas or not!"

DH has to work, then sleep, so he will NOT be spending time with the family ON Christmas.

"I know it's not a matter of him "covering up" his real feelings about being left behind - it's strictly a safety issue for him."

"I did ask him about the possibility of going earlier in the week so he could go with us, and he wasn't too interested - just kept suggesting we do something else."


They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"His concern is that if something happened to me or the kids, he wouldn't be able to get to us (his passport is expired)."

"He did bring up 9/11 and people being stranded."


What part of the OP's EXACT words do people not get?

 

[mjkacmom]

You go by the info given. Or you ask for clarification about HER situation.

People projected their OWN cr*p onto this situation and it was even real to the OP.

She didn't ask what was reasonable for you (general you.) She asked SPECIFICALLY whether HER DH, not YOUR DH (general yours) was being reasonable.

Oprah had a whole episode on how education was degrading in America yesterday. Judging by this thread, as no one seem literate enough to read the actual OP, pick details about the OP, analyze the OP's situation, and not insert your own stuff, I guess Oprah was right. I learned to read and pick stuff out of the reading material to support arguments & theories in 6th grade. You guys can't do that? 10 pages, and about only 7 posters who can do this.


I REPEAT:

In case people do not understand, the words between " " are actual sentences of the OP.

She is not spending Christmas alone, "she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD, plus her 2 kids."

"He doesn't care if we go somewhere without him - he just wants it to be "in the country"."
He didn't say don't go anywhere. I want you home or within 20 miles. That's all your projection/insertion/reinterpretation.


DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine.

"He's suggested Atlanta, Key West, the mountains."


"I'm not sure I need to defend my choice about taking the kids away from home w/out DH on Christmas since that's not the issue, but FWIW, we were originally planning on going somewhere else ("in the country") and he had NO problem with that at all."

They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"My husband has to work over the holiday,"
"If you've never worked a nightshift before or had a family member that did, it's hard to appreciate just wanting to sleep, whether it's Xmas or not!"

DH has to work, then sleep, so he will NOT be spending time with the family ON Christmas.

"I know it's not a matter of him "covering up" his real feelings about being left behind - it's strictly a safety issue for him."

"I did ask him about the possibility of going earlier in the week so he could go with us, and he wasn't too interested - just kept suggesting we do something else."


They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"His concern is that if something happened to me or the kids, he wouldn't be able to get to us (his passport is expired)."

"He did bring up 9/11 and people being stranded."


What part of the OP's EXACT words do people not get?

Because obviously the OP doesn't really know her DH. If she did, she would clearly see that he want the family home for Christmas, and the OP is very bad and selfish for not seeing this. Every single person on this planet knows that Christmas is a very important family holiday, not to be missed. Everyone but the OP. It can't be scheduled on another day. If the OP chooses to take her kids away, during the holiday, they will be scarred for like, and the marriage will end. How can a marriage survive if they family is not together on Christmas day?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You go by the info given. Or you ask for clarification about HER situation.

People projected their OWN cr*p onto this situation and it was even real to the OP.

She didn't ask what was reasonable for you (general you.) She asked SPECIFICALLY whether HER DH, not YOUR DH (general yours) was being reasonable.

Oprah had a whole episode on how education was degrading in America yesterday. Judging by this thread, as no one seem literate enough to read the actual OP, pick details about the OP, analyze the OP's situation, and not insert your own stuff, I guess Oprah was right. I learned to read and pick stuff out of the reading material to support arguments & theories in 6th grade. You guys can't do that? 10 pages, and about only 7 posters who can do this.


I REPEAT:

In case people do not understand, the words between " " are actual sentences of the OP.

She is not spending Christmas alone, "she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD, plus her 2 kids."

"He doesn't care if we go somewhere without him - he just wants it to be "in the country"."
He didn't say don't go anywhere. I want you home or within 20 miles. That's all your projection/insertion/reinterpretation.


DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine.

"He's suggested Atlanta, Key West, the mountains."


"I'm not sure I need to defend my choice about taking the kids away from home w/out DH on Christmas since that's not the issue, but FWIW, we were originally planning on going somewhere else ("in the country") and he had NO problem with that at all."

They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"My husband has to work over the holiday,"
"If you've never worked a nightshift before or had a family member that did, it's hard to appreciate just wanting to sleep, whether it's Xmas or not!"

DH has to work, then sleep, so he will NOT be spending time with the family ON Christmas.

"I know it's not a matter of him "covering up" his real feelings about being left behind - it's strictly a safety issue for him."

"I did ask him about the possibility of going earlier in the week so he could go with us, and he wasn't too interested - just kept suggesting we do something else."


They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"His concern is that if something happened to me or the kids, he wouldn't be able to get to us (his passport is expired)."

"He did bring up 9/11 and people being stranded."


What part of the OP's EXACT words do people not get?

Good for Oprah and her infinite wisdom.
People were responding to her question of "Who is being unreasonable?" They are using their own experiences to offer a different perspective as to why perhaps her DH may be feeling the way he does. Many time people have posted that perhaps he really doesn't want them away for the holidays but doesn't know how to say it. That is a possibility you know. We do "get" what the OP is saying but if she was so sure of his reasoning she wouldn't be asking here. Maybe someone here pointed out something she didn't think of. Yes, some cannot imagine leaving their spouse on a holiday with the kids so you will have some people who will be perplexed by it. That doesn't make them illiterate. Message boards aren't about just making a statement. You have conversation back and forth. Some good and valid points were brought up here.

Because obviously the OP doesn't really know her DH. If she did, she would clearly see that he want the family home for Christmas, and the OP is very bad and selfish for not seeing this. Every single person on this planet knows that Christmas is a very important family holiday, not to be missed. Everyone but the OP. It can't be scheduled on another day. If the OP chooses to take her kids away, during the holiday, they will be scarred for like, and the marriage will end. How can a marriage survive if they family is not together on Christmas day?

Again, why do you have to make it so nasty? Nobody said they knew the OP's DH at all. People made suggestions that perhaps her DH really didn't want them to be away and didn't want to or didn't know how to tell her. You've never seen that happen? It doesn't mean anything other than that. It was something to consider to get to the root of the issue. I think we can all agree that not having a valid passport is something that an adult knows can be easily remedied. No? So wouldn't you think that there might be another reason? People suggested as much.
I wish you the best but I seriously don't understand why you are ridiculing people's suggestions.

 

[Imzadi]

Good for Oprah and her infinite wisdom.

Well, you do know this is her last season.

You have conversation back and forth. Some good and valid points were brought up here.

But. . .but, then you guys started arguing amongst yourselves whether what each other does in your own homes & situations was right.

It was like, if we were all in the same room and the OP asked a question, then you started arguing among yourselves and the OP is standing off to the side, ignored, saying, "Hello??? Hello??? What about DH & me? WE really don't have a problem with him being alone on Christmas? Can we get back to MY real situation?"

 

[Scurvy]

Why did this thread become about all of YOU? And what YOU would do?

The OP didn't ask:
What would YOU do?
What is YOUR Christmas situation like?
Would YOU leave your spouse on Christmas?

Most of YOU didn't even read the OP right. She is not spending Christmas alone, she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD , plus her 2 kids.

DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine. (Or so he says.) Just no out of the country. So Canada is out, too.


Most of you are arguing amongst yourselves, and it isn't even about the OP. But what each of YOU said YOU would do, or what the other poster would do, NOT about what the OP said.






Finally the first two sane replies. Acklander post was #95.

Yes, another person who can read!

IRRELEVANT to most DISers who posted.


Can you tell I have my period? Oops! I posted about ME instead.

Goodness. I was going to assume that you got up on the wrong side of the bed but given the time this was posted maybe you just hadn't slept yet and were overly tired. You seem to be taking this much more personally than the OP for some reason.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread, but there were several "sane" (by your criteria) replies within the first few pages. And I'm sure that everyone on here can read. Posters were answering the OP's question. Maybe they didn't answer the way you would have but that doesn't mean they are illiterate or insane. Do you really expect people do completely discount their own experiences when offering opinions on who in the original post was being unreasonable? What would be the point in that? If everyone only has to post using the point of view of the original poster, clearly everyone would have to agree with her. That's ridiculous. People can only respond using their own opinions and experiences to shape their answer. Obviously some people got sidetracked by the Christmas thing, because for them it would be a big deal. Maybe those responses were less than helpful to the OP but they weren't insane, and they certainly weren't any excuse for rudeness. In fact, weren't you one of the people who was giving unsolicited advice to Sandra on a different thread the other day? Why is it okay for you to do that but not for everyone else to do the same thing on this thread? (If it wasn't you I apologize.)
ETA - I went and looked and it was you. You posted a very long, well thought out post giving Sandra very good advice that she didn't ask for, and hopefully she found it helpful. But according to your posts on this thread, you never should have posted those things.

Are you really suprised that this thread has branched into a side discussion? You've been on here long enough to know that threads do that, especially when the OP isn't really participating much. That's what happens on message boards. If the OP wants to completely control the topic, a blog is a better choice.

 

[jrmasm]

You go by the info given. Or you ask for clarification about HER situation.

People projected their OWN cr*p onto this situation and it was even real to the OP.

She didn't ask what was reasonable for you (general you.) She asked SPECIFICALLY whether HER DH, not YOUR DH (general yours) was being reasonable.

Oprah had a whole episode on how education was degrading in America yesterday. Judging by this thread, as no one seem literate enough to read the actual OP, pick details about the OP, analyze the OP's situation, and not insert your own stuff, I guess Oprah was right. I learned to read and pick stuff out of the reading material to support arguments & theories in 6th grade. You guys can't do that? 10 pages, and about only 7 posters who can do this.


I REPEAT:

In case people do not understand, the words between " " are actual sentences of the OP.

She is not spending Christmas alone, "she will be with her family: parents, sister, BIL, and their DD, plus her 2 kids."

"He doesn't care if we go somewhere without him - he just wants it to be "in the country"."
He didn't say don't go anywhere. I want you home or within 20 miles. That's all your projection/insertion/reinterpretation.


DH said he didn't mind her taking the kids anywhere IN the U.S., on Christmas, so she could take them to CA, HI, AK, and he'd be fine.

"He's suggested Atlanta, Key West, the mountains."


"I'm not sure I need to defend my choice about taking the kids away from home w/out DH on Christmas since that's not the issue, but FWIW, we were originally planning on going somewhere else ("in the country") and he had NO problem with that at all."

They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"My husband has to work over the holiday,"
"If you've never worked a nightshift before or had a family member that did, it's hard to appreciate just wanting to sleep, whether it's Xmas or not!"

DH has to work, then sleep, so he will NOT be spending time with the family ON Christmas.

"I know it's not a matter of him "covering up" his real feelings about being left behind - it's strictly a safety issue for him."

"I did ask him about the possibility of going earlier in the week so he could go with us, and he wasn't too interested - just kept suggesting we do something else."


They already made some plans earlier AND HE WAS FINE BEING ALONE ON CHRISTMAS!!!!

"His concern is that if something happened to me or the kids, he wouldn't be able to get to us (his passport is expired)."

"He did bring up 9/11 and people being stranded."


What part of the OP's EXACT words do people not get?

Dang you're cranky!!

 

[Imzadi]

Goodness. I was going to assume that you got up on the wrong side of the bed but given the time this was posted maybe you just hadn't slept yet and were overly tired. You seem to be taking this much more personally than the OP for some reason.

Dang you're cranky!!

I said earlier I'm having my period!

And I haven't been able to sleep much in the last 3 days. You guys know me so well.

Anyways, I took a chill pill. Literally! I'm feeling better now.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Well, you do know this is her last season.



But. . .but, then you guys started arguing amongst yourselves whether what each other does in your own homes & situations was right.

It was like, if we were all in the same room and the OP asked a question, then you started arguing among yourselves and the OP is standing off to the side, ignored, saying, "Hello??? Hello??? What about DH & me? WE really don't have a problem with him being alone on Christmas? Can we get back to MY real situation?"

That was pretty funny! You made me laugh out loud!
I get what you are saying now.

 

[phorsenuf]

It was like, if we were all in the same room and the OP asked a question, then you started arguing among yourselves and the OP is standing off to the side, ignored, saying, "Hello??? Hello??? What about DH & me? WE really don't have a problem with him being alone on Christmas? Can we get back to MY real situation?"

Then I would say "I wouldn't go." then go find a drink and a hot guy to talk to.

 

[mjkacmom]

Again, why do you have to make it so nasty? Nobody said they knew the OP's DH at all. People made suggestions that perhaps her DH really didn't want them to be away and didn't want to or didn't know how to tell her. You've never seen that happen? It doesn't mean anything other than that. It was something to consider to get to the root of the issue. I think we can all agree that not having a valid passport is something that an adult knows can be easily remedied. No? So wouldn't you think that there might be another reason? People suggested as much.
I wish you the best but I seriously don't understand why you are ridiculing people's suggestions.

Because there are some people who can't understand that people might not feel the way they do. Again, I would be upset if my family travelled without me at Christmas. However, my DH would be fine with it. If the OP, who actually knows her DH, believes he's okay with it, he's okay with it. He is suggesting other vacation destinations. Why wouldn't he just come out and say he wants them to stay home? It's not an unreasonable request. Maybe he doesn't want to spend the money on a new passport, or go through the hassle if it's been expired too long? The OP has said, over and over, it's not about being away at Christmas, and yet people can't let that go. To some people, it's just a date on the calendar. Too many are trying to make the OP feel guilty over something she shouldn't feel guilty about.

 

[Imzadi]

Then I would say "I wouldn't go." then go find a drink and a hot guy to talk to.

Note to self: Follow phorsenuf around at the next party to find the hot guys.