White NAACP Leader Who Passed As Black

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What is "black"? What is "white"? Scientists have found no real DNA differences. "Race" is a purely social classification based on certain physical attributes that we associate with certain "peoples". e.g. a certain combination of skin type, hair type, nose shape etc. But with all the mixing between ethnic groups that has been happening for many years, there are so many people that if you see them outside of their normal social context (and you knew nothing about their lineage), and you have only pure looks to go by, you wouldn't know how to classify them. And I wish we had reached the enlightened age where it wasn't necessary to classify anyone. We are all just part of the human race.

That may be true.

BUT, our DNA determines all of our characteristics and skin color is included in that. Now is there anything else that is different in the physical make up between two people of a different color on the basis of color? No.

But I think you are referring to culture. She wanted the culture, but she lied about her race/ethnicity (as well as her upbringing).

 

[EMom]

I am not attempting to defend her actions, but consider this... To those that didn't know her "back story", she appeared "black" and when asked said she was "black". We cannot speak to childhood history, but in recent years whenever she walked into a retail store, sat for a job interview, filled out any application that contained a racial check box, or was pulled over by the police, etc. the people she interacted with didn't have a copy of her birth certificate nor would have asked to see a photo of her parents. So, it's really hard to say exactly what her racial "experience" has been since transitioning.

As for people that are hung up on their fact that she's used lies and deceptive actions to cover her transition to being "black", consider this... before "transgender" became a relatively accepted status in our society, it was not difficult to find examples of transgender people who similarly resorted to living deceptive lives in order to be able to express themselves as they self-identified.

She didn't transition to being Black. She transitioned (very successfully) to being a liar.

 

[Geoff_M]

Yes, I will "poo poo" them. It's a white person in black face. This is back pedaling plain and simple.

Just as one might argue that Jenner is merely a guy in a dress. How do we decide which "self-identities" that contradict our physical attributes are valid and which ones aren't?

 

[gwynne]

Just as one might argue that Jenner is merely a guy in a dress. How do we decide which "self-identifies" that contradict our physical attributes are valid and which ones aren't?

Good question. Have you made a determination about whether you're a Red Wing player, or just a Red Wing fan? It's your call.

 

[U2_rocks!]

That may be true.

BUT, our DNA determines all of our characteristics and skin color is included in that. Now is there anything else that is different in the physical make up between two people of a different color on the basis of color? No.

But I think you are referring to culture. She wanted the culture, but she lied about her race/ethnicity (as well as her upbringing).

Yes, she did lie. I just wish it weren't so important to declare yourself as one or the other. My daughter's skin is darker than some people who consider themselves "black", but she is seen as white, so it's more than skin colour. It's also more than eye colour - her eyes are so dark that they are almost black. She gets her skin from her paternal grandmother, whose lineage includes one of the native tribes of South America (as opposed to the later Spanish settlers). She gets her blond-ish hair from me. Her facial features aren't typical of what people expect from native South Americans - they are more typically "Caucasian". So I suppose that and the hair have caused people to see her as "white". But she is a mixture, like so many of us. I just the pigeon-holing.

I suppose in a country where they are minority, "black" may be considered a culture; where I am from black is the vast majority, and there are many cultural differences. So I don't really equate ethnicity with culture necessarily.

 

[Hrhpd]

Just as one might argue that Jenner is merely a guy in a dress. How do we decide which "self-identities" that contradict our physical attributes are valid and which ones aren't?

Who cares what she identifies with. She could identify with being purple. That part doesn't matter. If she had said that she was born caucasian, but felt purple her whole life so finally made the transition to purple I think people would have been very understanding and supportive.

It is the lying and making up a whole whackadoodle life that did not exist that makes her deceptive. And I mentioned it before, but the faking of hate crimes is despicable and that alone to me points to some mental imbalance.

 

[barkley]

I am not attempting to defend her actions, but consider this... To those that didn't know her "back story", she appeared "black" and when asked said she was "black". We cannot speak to childhood history, but in recent years whenever she walked into a retail store, sat for a job interview, filled out any application that contained a racial check box, or was pulled over by the police, etc. the people she interacted with didn't have a copy of her birth certificate nor would have asked to see a photo of her parents. So, it's really hard to say exactly what her racial "experience" has been since transitioning.

As for people that are hung up on their fact that she's used lies and deceptive actions to cover her transition to being "black", consider this... before "transgender" became a relatively accepted status in our society, it was not difficult to find examples of transgender people who similarly resorted to living deceptive lives in order to be able to express themselves as they self-identified.

you're correct-the didn't have her birth certificate or photos of her parents, so when she filled out those applications that contained a racial check box the recipients (my local county) was reliant on her BEING HONEST. SHE WAS NOT. when she provided our local naacp chapter with a photo she identified of her and her father to promote an event they were being reliant on her BEING HONEST. SHE WAS NOT. when my daughter's classmates attended her classes and she presented as part of her lectures photos of her "father" and "son", and used as a basis for much of what she was "teaching" stories of her personal experiences and struggles from birth as a black person the students did not have a copy of her birth certificate and were reliant on her being not only honest, but providing the courses they paid to take, and upholding the ethical standards of our local university-SHE DID NOT.

deception is one thing- falsifying government applications, providing false identity photos to a public group, and depriving my child and all of the other students of the education they have paid for is NOT deception-it is illegal, immoral, unethical and a violation of human decency.

 

[Geoff_M]

deception is one thing- falsifying government applications, providing false identity photos to a public group, and depriving my child and all of the other students of the education they have paid for is NOT deception-it is illegal, immoral, unethical and a violation of human decency.

Would you say the actions of Billy Tipton also violated human decency?

 

[EMom]

You can drink this Kool Aid all you want. I'm abstaining.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hite-subordinates-tried-kill-three-times.html

 

[Wishing on a star]

Who cares what she identifies with. She could identify with being purple. That part doesn't matter. If she had said that she was born caucasian, but felt purple her whole life so finally made the transition to purple I think people would have been very understanding and supportive.

It is the lying and making up a whole whackadoodle life that did not exist that makes her deceptive. And I mentioned it before, but the faking of hate crimes is despicable and that alone to me points to some mental imbalance.

Exactly...
Jenner has not spent his lifetime in lying and insanity, trying to 'represent' woman.

If he wants to represent a transgender man-to-woman person or community.
Have at it.
No problem with that.

But, don't tell me "I am a woman, I was born a woman, and I represent women."

This woman is way way way off-balance, and her lies and misrepresentations, and the purposes of her own benefit.
Sorry, not okay, any time any way, any how.

 

[gwynne]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hite-subordinates-tried-kill-three-times.html

She was quite adept at gaining attention, fame and good jobs, with her steady stream of ugly, vicious lies.
Appreciate the heads up on that article. Shocking.

 

[EMom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hite-subordinates-tried-kill-three-times.html

I'll say this for her. She can spin a yarn worthy of Paul Bunyan.

 

[Geoff_M]

You can drink this Kool Aid all you want. I'm abstaining.

I'm not sure if you think I'm advocating for Ms. Dolezal, but I can assure I'm not. It's more of an attempt to understand the thought processes that our society goes through as it faces different, but arguably similar, issues.

 

[barkley]

Would you say the actions of Billy Tipton also violated human decency?

I'm familiar with this because billy tipton also lived and died in Spokane, and our local courts were tied up for years dealing with the aftermath of the illegal adoptions that were perpetuated because of the falsified and perjured documents done by billy tipton. that the youngest son had to experience learning of his father's non male anatomy while watching the paramedics futily attempting to save billy's life is a horrific event I believe no parent who cares for their child would in any way consider humanly decent. how billy wanted to live was billy's business-that 3 children only found out after losing their father that they were illegally adopted and much of what they were told for the entirety of their lives was a lie-yes I believe it does not rise to the level of human decency.

 

[EMom]

I can at least buy the argument that a person realizes very early on that they were born the wrong gender and are thus trapped in the wrong body. I've seen that happen. If someone suddenly comes to that realization at nearly 30, I'd be a lot less likely to believe it.

In RD's case, she is simply a liar. She never thought she was Black and only pulled off an elaborate con as an adult, getting others to "not blow her cover." The two situations are not remotely similar. I am not buying what she is selling.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just as one might argue that Jenner is merely a guy in a dress. How do we decide which "self-identities" that contradict our physical attributes are valid and which ones aren't?

Some might say that. But he went through means to legally create his identity. And he didn't lie about it.

He also isn't walking around claiming how hard it was to grow up as a little girl either.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Would you say the actions of Billy Tipton also violated human decency?

Yes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not sure if you think I'm advocating for Ms. Dolezal, but I can assure I'm not. It's more of an attempt to understand the thought processes that our society goes through as it faces different, but arguably similar, issues.

Lying is not okay.

People keeping secrets is on them.

She didn't keep a secret.

 

[livie1205]

The story just gets worse by the minute with all the lies.. Seems like she sued Howard for discrimination in 2002 because she said they discriminated against her for being WHITE... so I guess she is whatever race gets her what she wants.