What's your Focus point 'strategy'?

[WilsonFlyer]

Excellent read.

http://www.canonrumors.com/tech-articles/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/

 

[Marlton Mom]

Thanks for all the info.
I do you use photoshop...not sure if I can find the focus point on that...I do KNOW that I either shot it with the top center point or midddle point selected though. Thats why I don't get why it does her shoulder so focused. It might be the lens then. It seems to focus there the most I find in most of my pictures.
I have a lot of reading to do and so much more to learn.

On my NIKON D90 there is an auto focus mode that let's you choose the focus bracket of your choice BUT if YOU OR THE SUBJECT Moves, the camera chooses the auto focus point. Is it possible that your Canon is set to something like this?

~MM

 

[disneyboy2003]

Thanks for all the info.
I do you use photoshop...not sure if I can find the focus point on that...I do KNOW that I either shot it with the top center point or midddle point selected though. Thats why I don't get why it does her shoulder so focused. It might be the lens then. It seems to focus there the most I find in most of my pictures.
I have a lot of reading to do and so much more to learn.

I don't think Photoshop can show you what focus point was used in a photo.

If you're using Canon, your camera came with a software program called "Digital Photo Professional" (or, DPP), which is Canon's software to read their RAW files. Because Canon RAW files are proprietary, some photographers might argue that DPP is the best program available to read Canon's own RAW files. DPP is FREE, and should have come with your camera.

Sure, you can use Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture, etc. to read your camera's RAW files. But these companies "reverse-engineer" RAW files (ex. Canon's RAW files, Nikon's RAW files, Sony's RAW files, etc), so it is theoretically possible that not all 100% of the data in a RAW file is presented in Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture, etc.

For example, you can actually use Canon's DPP to view the focus point you used for a picture. However, this information is not available in Lightroom / Photoshop / Aperture. Also, I'm not sure if this is only for RAW photos, or whether you can view the focus point in a JPEG photo, too.

You can also use DPP to organize your photos and make edits / adjustments to your photos, like you would in Lightroom, Aperture, or Adobe Camera Raw.

However, I think many people (including myself) prefer using Lightroom or Aperture because it feels easier to use.

 

[disneyboy2003]

Thanks..but with a trip in 4 days. I wil lhave to wait til lI get back to look that over.
Ok, I have figured out how to actually make the adjustment on the camera...I just don't get how you know if you have the RIGHT adjustment. I see patterns, etc to take pics of, but what is my goal on these patterns? then I have no clue if I need to move it forward or backwards.

It talks about distance moving on your screen? What is that? I don;t have anything on my screen that shows distance

There are micro-focus test images available on the Internet that you can download and print on your own printer.

Here's an example I found on the Internet of someone testing his camera's focus (link):

You take this test image, and focus on the center black line. If your lens & camera are focusing properly, then everything on that line should be in focus.

If you're really anal and do a lot of "pixel peeping" in the example above, you'll see that the "This text should be perfectly in focus" line is actually slightly out-of-focus.

In fact, the camera/lens was actually front-focusing, meaning it was actually focusing a couple millimeters in front of where it was supposed to focus. You can see that a little more of the numbers in front of the target are in focus, compared to fewer numbers behind the target.

The user went ahead and did a microfocus adjustment on his camera, and got this result:

Here are some focus test charts you can download from the Internet:

• http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
• http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/focus-chart

Or, if you'd rather pay money for a focus test chart (and who DOESN'T like spending extra money on photography?), you can buy a product called LensAlign for $80-$250 (link to LensAlign).

Microfocus adjustment is a LOT of trial and error. Hope that helps.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Pandora's box has been opened.

Take some advice from a friend. Run away from these charts and alignment templates. Run Forest, RUN!

They will drive you crazy. You will hate your equipment. You will hate your life. You will hate your dog. It will all be your mama's fault.

Been here. Done this. Got the bloody t-shirt.

Just learn to use your camera the best you can and enjoy it and understand it has limitations. Most can be compensated for and some simply cannot. Most photography problems lie behind the viewfinder and not with the equipment.

I think if we'd all come to grip with those three things above, we'd all enjoy this hobby a lot more, myself included.

 

[disneyboy2003]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

I couldn't view the EXIF data for this image. Can you post the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO for this image?

A few ideas have already been mentioned. Make sure you're weren't too close to your subject. All lenses have a minimum focusing distance, meaning that the lens can't focus on anything closer than this minimum distance. I'm not sure if this was the case with your photo.

Others mentioned microfocus adjustment. I'm not sure if this is the case either, especially since you mention that all your other non-people photos are nice & sharp. You should certainly do one of those focus tests using a focus test chart, just to double-check & make sure your camera isn't front-focusing or back-focusing. At least you can quickly rule this out.

If you're only using the center focus point, I wonder if your focus point was place right on your daughter's cheek. If that's the case, it might be really hard for your camera to determine the correct distance for focus.

Autofocus works by detecting an area of contrast. If you have a black line right next to a white line, the camera easily uses this sharp contrast to autofocus an image.

Here's an example of what the camera sees and how it autofocuses (from this link). Here are a series of black and white lines. Your camera initially sees that everything is blurry.

However, the camera sees that there are several areas of high contrast (ex. black right next to white, or dark right next to bright). The camera uses this sharp contrast area to help it autofocus:

What if you have a scene with ZERO contrast? For example, try taking a picture of ONLY the blue sky without clouds, or a picture of your blank white wall, or a picture of a completely snow-covered field. There is no area of contrast because the entire scene is all the same tone. So there's nothing for the camera to focus on.


How does this all apply to your image? Well, your daughter's cheek has very little change in contrast, so the camera can't figure out how to focus here. Instead, the closest area that has a sharp change in contrast is your daughter's black collar. Here, there's a sharp line of contrast from the black collar to the light skin. In fact, the collar appears to be the sharpest part of the photo. So I wonder if that's what your camera actually focused on.

In general, try to put the focus point on your subject's eye(s). As viewers, we're all drawn to a subject's eyes, and we want to see the eyes tack sharp. Oftentimes, there's a nice area of contrast around the eyes, so the camera can use this area to autofocus. You may have to focus on the eyes first, and then recompose the picture (ie. the "focus and recompose" method described in detail ad nauseum earlier in this thread ).

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't quite see the focusing problem with this photo. It could be that the photo is small enough that it looks fine to me...similar to seeing how all your photos look nice and sharp on the tiny LCD screen in the back of your camera.

Can you post a larger version of this picture? Maybe we can do some pixel-peeping and figure out what the focus issue is.

However, I see that you used an aperture of f/4.0 in this photo. I think that should have been a good enough aperture to get your daughter's face in-focus. Plus, it appears that you were at a good enough distance from your daughter, too.

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens. If you're really nerdy, you can use a depth of field calculator, many of which are found online (such as this one).

I plugged in your numbers, based on the EXIF data in your photo:

1. aperture: f/4.0
2. distance from subject: I guessed 6 feet?
3. camera: Canon 50D, which has a "crop sensor"
4. focal length: 28mm

Based on the above numbers, your total depth of field should have been about 2.2 feet: the range spans from 0.9 feet in front of the subject to 1.3 feet behind the subject. Anything within this 2.2-feet range should have been in-focus. So that should have been enough range for your daughter to be in-focus, assuming you focused directly on your daughter. Again, it's a little harder to tell from a smaller-sized photo.

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on-and-on-and-on-and...

 

[disneyboy2003]

Pandora's box has been opened.

Take some advice from a friend. Run away from these charts and alignment templates. Run Forest, RUN!

They will drive you crazy. You will hate your equipment. You will hate your life. You will hate your dog. It will all be your mama's fault.

Been here. Done this. Got the bloody t-shirt.

Just learn to use your camera the best you can and enjoy it and understand it has limitations. Most can be compensated for and some simply cannot. Most photography problems lie behind the viewfinder and not with the equipment.

I think if we'd all come to grip with those three things above, we'd all enjoy this hobby a lot more, myself included.

Yes, microfocus adjustment can CONSUME you, especially if you've got a very very very VERY anal personality.

My wife shakes her head and walks away, every time I whip out the focus test chart.

 

[jenseib]

I couldn't view the EXIF data for this image. Can you post the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO for this image?

I'm not sure if I can find it. It no longer is on my computer. The only way I know how to find that info is in bridge. I guess I could try and find the CD it's on.

A few ideas have already been mentioned. Make sure you're weren't too close to your subject. All lenses have a minimum focusing distance, meaning that the lens can't focus on anything closer than this minimum distance. I'm not sure if this was the case with your photo.

Others mentioned microfocus adjustment. I'm not sure if this is the case either, especially since you mention that all your other non-people photos are nice & sharp. You should certainly do one of those focus tests using a focus test chart, just to double-check & make sure your camera isn't front-focusing or back-focusing. At least you can quickly rule this out.

If you're only using the center focus point, I wonder if your focus point was place right on your daughter's cheek. If that's the case, it might be really hard for your camera to determine the correct distance for focus.

Autofocus works by detecting an area of contrast. If you have a black line right next to a white line, the camera easily uses this sharp contrast to autofocus an image.

Here's an example of what the camera sees and how it autofocuses (from this link). Here are a series of black and white lines. Your camera initially sees that everything is blurry.

However, the camera sees that there are several areas of high contrast (ex. black right next to white, or dark right next to bright). The camera uses this sharp contrast area to help it autofocus:

What if you have a scene with ZERO contrast? For example, try taking a picture of ONLY the blue sky without clouds, or a picture of your blank white wall, or a picture of a completely snow-covered field. There is no area of contrast because the entire scene is all the same tone. So there's nothing for the camera to focus on.


How does this all apply to your image? Well, your daughter's cheek has very little change in contrast, so the camera can't figure out how to focus here. Instead, the closest area that has a sharp change in contrast is your daughter's black collar. Here, there's a sharp line of contrast from the black collar to the light skin. In fact, the collar appears to be the sharpest part of the photo. So I wonder if that's what your camera actually focused on.

In general, try to put the focus point on your subject's eye(s). As viewers, we're all drawn to a subject's eyes, and we want to see the eyes tack sharp. Oftentimes, there's a nice area of contrast around the eyes, so the camera can use this area to autofocus. You may have to focus on the eyes first, and then recompose the picture (ie. the "focus and recompose" method described in detail ad nauseum earlier in this thread ).




Maybe it's just me, but I can't quite see the focusing problem with this photo. It could be that the photo is small enough that it looks fine to me...similar to seeing how all your photos look nice and sharp on the tiny LCD screen in the back of your camera.

I think the problem with this to me is that is is so soft withour editing and then when I sharpened it her face still seemed too soft to me. But I know I don't have a top quality lens either and that could be my problem more than anything.

Can you post a larger version of this picture? Maybe we can do some pixel-peeping and figure out what the focus issue is.

However, I see that you used an aperture of f/4.0 in this photo. I think that should have been a good enough aperture to get your daughter's face in-focus. Plus, it appears that you were at a good enough distance from your daughter, too.

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens. If you're really nerdy, you can use a depth of field calculator, many of which are found online (such as this one).

I plugged in your numbers, based on the EXIF data in your photo:

1. aperture: f/4.0
2. distance from subject: I guessed 6 feet?
3. camera: Canon 50D, which has a "crop sensor"
4. focal length: 28mm

Based on the above numbers, your total depth of field should have been about 2.2 feet: the range spans from 0.9 feet in front of the subject to 1.3 feet behind the subject. Anything within this 2.2-feet range should have been in-focus. So that should have been enough range for your daughter to be in-focus, assuming you focused directly on your daughter. Again, it's a little harder to tell from a smaller-sized photo.

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on-and-on-and-on-and...

Thanks for the info. Also part of the problem is that I just don't have enough time to "practice" and read up on things like I should. I will get some great pictures and go at it for awhile and then put the camera down for a few months...and my brain seems to forget everything I had learned.

 

[jenseib]

One other problem...I am always confused which AF mode to use. I generally keep it in AI Focus, should I try One shot or AI Servo instead?

 

[Marlton Mom]

One other problem...I am always confused which AF mode to use. I generally keep it in AI Focus, should I try One shot or AI Servo instead?

If you are having focusing problems it's time to read up on the focusing modes offered by your camera and learn about what each one does. This will give you the best understanding of what is going on and why. Then you can choose different strategies and options that will help you to remedy the problem.

You still have time before your trip. Break out that manual and read up!

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

 

[boBQuincy]

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens.

Depth of field also depends on a very subjective measurement, the circle of confusion (aptly named but not for the obvious reason). The COC was formulated based on a certain size print viewed from a certain distance after a certain amount of enlargement. Where this may break down is that we now often view at a much larger magnification since it is so easy, thus the accepted formula for COC may be outdated. With modern lenses and cameras (and sharpening software) our expectations for sharpness may also be higher.

In other words, depth of field is not what it used to be and following the typical DOF calculators/markings may leave us with an image that we find to be too soft.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Depth of field also depends on a very subjective measurement, the circle of confusion (aptly named but not for the obvious reason). The COC was formulated based on a certain size print viewed from a certain distance after a certain amount of enlargement. Where this may break down is that we now often view at a much larger magnification since it is so easy, thus the accepted formula for COC may be outdated. With modern lenses and cameras (and sharpening software) our expectations for sharpness may also be higher.

In other words, depth of field is not what it used to be and following the typical DOF calculators/markings may leave us with an image that we find to be too soft.

Wow Bob. I never thought about that but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting that. COC really doesn't corrolate well with the old 35mm film/print days, yet I have always continued to think about it that way.

Great post!

 

[jenseib]

If you are having focusing problems it's time to read up on the focusing modes offered by your camera and learn about what each one does. This will give you the best understanding of what is going on and why. Then you can choose different strategies and options that will help you to remedy the problem.

You still have time before your trip. Break out that manual and read up!

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

I read it over and over. Just read it Friday too!

 

[Marlton Mom]

I read it over and over. Just read it Friday too!

Try this:

From http://www.learnslr.com/cs-canon-50d-guide-faq/11-50d-basic-features

AI Servo / AI AutoFocus / One Shot
A quick press of the Focus Mode button on the top of your 50D will allow you to use the top dial to quickly change from One shot to AI Focus, or AI Servo mode.

1. One Shot: Canon’s default focus mode, the camera will not take a photo until the camera locks onto its subject matter. Once the red light in the view finder lights, the photo can be taken. Appropriate for non-moving subject matter, portraits, landscapes and other NON-moving subjects.

2. AI Servo: The 50D constantly refocuses attempting to calculate the moving subjects next movement and based on that prediction focus the lens on the subject. This mode should be used when shooting sports, moving objects, or any type of image where the subject matter is constantly changing location. This mode can be combined with continuous shooting to capture 6.3 frames per second while following a subject. If the auto focus is able to perform adequately, you will get 6.3 frames per second in focus while your subject matter is moving.

3. AI Auto focus: Mode where the 50D determines whether One Shot or AI Servo should be used. In general this is not a good mode to be in, and I avoid it at all times. Its quite quick and easy to switch between one shot and AI Servo – do that when switching is necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm thinking for the narrow depth of field pictures that you are taking (Either by virtue of a large aperture, shallow DOF due to shortened distance of subject) you should be in one shot focus mode.

Do the Canon people agree with the Nikon Mom???

I'd really like to help Jenseib get a handle on her problem before she leaves on her trip....

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

 

[mom2rtk]

Try this:

From http://www.learnslr.com/cs-canon-50d-guide-faq/11-50d-basic-features

AI Servo / AI AutoFocus / One Shot
A quick press of the Focus Mode button on the top of your 50D will allow you to use the top dial to quickly change from One shot to AI Focus, or AI Servo mode.

1. One Shot: Canon’s default focus mode, the camera will not take a photo until the camera locks onto its subject matter. Once the red light in the view finder lights, the photo can be taken. Appropriate for non-moving subject matter, portraits, landscapes and other NON-moving subjects.

2. AI Servo: The 50D constantly refocuses attempting to calculate the moving subjects next movement and based on that prediction focus the lens on the subject. This mode should be used when shooting sports, moving objects, or any type of image where the subject matter is constantly changing location. This mode can be combined with continuous shooting to capture 6.3 frames per second while following a subject. If the auto focus is able to perform adequately, you will get 6.3 frames per second in focus while your subject matter is moving.

3. AI Auto focus: Mode where the 50D determines whether One Shot or AI Servo should be used. In general this is not a good mode to be in, and I avoid it at all times. Its quite quick and easy to switch between one shot and AI Servo – do that when switching is necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm thinking for the narrow depth of field pictures that you are taking (Either by virtue of a large aperture, shallow DOF due to shortened distance of subject) you should be in one shot focus mode.

Do the Canon people agree with the Nikon Mom???

I'd really like to help Jenseib get a handle on her problem before she leaves on her trip....

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

Look at you trying to help out us Canonites............ What a sweetie! Not at all what I had been told to expect from you Nikonians!

I did try to get WilsonFlyer to send you a free Canon. Did it get there yet?

I generally stay in one shot mode unless I'm shooting sports. I'll be curious to see if any of the Canon experts handle it any differently.

 

[Marlton Mom]

I did try to get WilsonFlyer to send you a free Canon. Did it get there yet? .

Nope! He skunked me!
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! )

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Nope! He skunked me!
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! )

WELL! If you're going to have THAT kind of attitude!

5D Mk II? Well I never!

I issued a callback with UPS. At least now you won't have to worry about being bothered by having to learn the 1DS. It was probably beyond you anyway!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Since I got my 60D, I'm actually starting to play with AI Servo mode a lot more. I'm seeing that it suits my style a lot more.

As with a lot of other things, I tend to assume that the "defaults" will always be best unless I know what I'm doing. It's generally a good rule of thmb, but as I have progressed and gotten more comfortable with my camera, AI Servo seems to be a much better catch-all for me.

I'd play with it some. I even like it for static scenes.

 

[mom2rtk]

Nope! He skunked me!
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! )

WELL! If you're going to have THAT kind of attitude!

5D Mk II? Well I never!

I issued a callback with UPS. At least now you won't have to worry about being bothered by having to learn the 1DS. It was probably beyond you anyway!

And I was going to send her one of those fancy long white lenses. Guess I'll have to cancel that!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

And I was going to send her one of those fancy long white lenses. Guess I'll have to cancel that!

Oh Maaaaaaaaan!