What's your Focus point 'strategy'?

[boBQuincy]

I find it interesting that most of us (who are mostly fairly advanced photographers) tend to use the single center focus point almost all of the time, while the camera manufacturers spend a lot of effort and $$$ to add more focus points (that we, and I imagine many others, do not use). About the only time I use a different focus point is when I am using a tripod and the center point is not aimed at the subject, pretty rare.

One issue of the center point is that when I hand my camera to someone else (like a CM) to take a photo of us, they expect the camera to figure out where to focus. As often as not the center point is aimed at something distant...

Tracking focus can be good for motorsports, wildlife, and stage shows *except* for when someone walks in front of the intended subject. Then the camera quickly tries to lock in on the new subject. Still, I have used tracking focus to good effect for "Festival of the Lion King" and "Beauty and the Beast".

 

[mom2rtk]

I find it interesting that most of us (who are mostly fairly advanced photographers) tend to use the single center focus point almost all of the time, while the camera manufacturers spend a lot of effort and $$$ to add more focus points (that we, and I imagine many others, do not use). About the only time I use a different focus point is when I am using a tripod and the center point is not aimed at the subject, pretty rare.

One issue of the center point is that when I hand my camera to someone else (like a CM) to take a photo of us, they expect the camera to figure out where to focus. As often as not the center point is aimed at something distant...

Tracking focus can be good for motorsports, wildlife, and stage shows *except* for when someone walks in front of the intended subject. Then the camera quickly tries to lock in on the new subject. Still, I have used tracking focus to good effect for "Festival of the Lion King" and "Beauty and the Beast".

Isn't the center point supposed to be the strongest, or most accurate?

I really wish the photopass people would learn better how to focus their OWN cameras. I was really disappointed with how many pictures were out of focus on our last photopass CD.

Good idea for using the tracking focus on FOTLK. I will try that next time. I have been very happy using it for my track and cross country running son, but hadnt' considered any applications at Disney. I can see this being especially useful in a low light setting when I might be using a pretty wide open aperture.

 

[Marlton Mom]

Hey, didn't you just get a new Canon? I say send the old one to Marlton Mom as a gift and maybe she'll do the research for all us Canon shooters. Come on over to the dark side MM!

THAT'S all I need! Can you imagine the brain paralysis involved in moving from 1 camera system to another fast enough not to miss any shots? My family would ABANDON ME!

I've given up on the camera manual. It's so dry and one track and it never seems to synthesize the information all together, which is especially tragic when you have an "If this, then that" type of scenario.

Right now I'm reading David Busch's Nikon D90 book which is getting me 80% of the way there. I'm also relying on the Nikon Digitutor site for the rough spots not covered well by Mr. Busch. (like 3D tracking)

I'm making notes on the especially grisly parts like the Focusing System. I don't think I'm going to have trouble with anything else so I basically skipped ahead and dove in to the focus stuff first. Now I'll go back and read and notate the rest of the book.

Once you understand that you have 3 variables for exposure (ISO, Shutter speed and Aperture) and you comprehend the focusing system, the rest should be a piece of cake if you have basic photography knowledge, at least that's where I think I am.

Next it's off to conquer photography software, for example HDR and Photoshop.

As for the Canon systems I think the best course of action would be to purchase a good book explaining your camera and DIVE IN!

You really become proficient at understanding when you:
See one, Know one, Teach one.

This took me some time to get through but it was totally worth it because now I have an understanding of what the camera is doing and where I need to have it. Now I can experiment with 3D tracking and Dynamic area and experience for myself what their downfalls may be when photographing a Disney Parade, especially one at night.

I think I'm going to post a new thread letting all those new Nikon owners know about the Digitutor site. I think a ton of people are in the weeds with their new Digital SLR's.

Umm.... does CANON have a site like that? If they do then for God's sake share it with those poor Canon souls.

~ Marlton Mom

 

[mom2rtk]

Umm.... does CANON have a site like that? If they do then for God's sake share it with those poor Canon souls.

~ Marlton Mom

Ummmmmm......... over here!!! Anyone???

It probably wouldn't be the same though. We need it translated into MM-ese.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Hey, didn't you just get a new Canon? I say send the old one to Marlton Mom as a gift and maybe she'll do the research for all us Canon shooters. Come on over to the dark side MM!

I have a 6 month-old T2i and a 2 day-old 60D and I can't reliably and consistently focus either one of them and they aren't my first two cowboys in the rodeo.

 

[Marlton Mom]

Isn't the center point supposed to be the strongest, or most accurate?

On my Nikon D90, (and probably in SOME of the Canon's) the center focusing point has 2 focus sensors at right angles to each other. They call this the "Cross Type Focus Point". This basically means that image contrast, which is what the camera uses to determine focus is measured in 2 directions (Horizontal and Vertical) versus just one direction that exists with the focus points that are surrounding the center focusing point.

I don't think my D60 had a Cross Type Focus Point so that may have been part of my problem with it....

I really wish the photopass people would learn better how to focus their OWN cameras. I was really disappointed with how many pictures were out of focus on our last photopass CD.

I had so many pictures taken by them where the image was unfocused. I'd bet a million Disney Dollars that their cameras are on Full auto for focus and then the camera seeks out the (Empty) center spot between 2 people posing and THAT'S WHY the images come out blurry!


As for using other focus points I could basically see where I'd choose a focus point other than the center when I'm using a large aperture and my depth of field is tiny AND the subject needs to be off center in the frame.

I have a nifty depth of field calculator on my smart phone which I use extensively when I'm using my 35mm F1.8 lens. This lens is BRUTAL for lack of Depth of field at short distances so it always amazes me when some one says that they will be using this lens on the dark rides.

Ok, I'll stop now.... I have to say all this camera talk is making me happy because I really need to get a handle on the D90 before my trip in 85 days.

Tick, tick, tick, tick,.......
Marlton Mom

 

[My2Girls66]

Maybe from the days of my 35mm slr's- I always focus and recompose. I don't recall any of them having more than the center focus point. I never even think to use any other focus point.

 

[disneyboy2003]

Wow, MarltonMom! Great write-up on the Nikon focusing system! And colorful, too!

Boy, if you all thought focusing on your current dSLR is confusing, wait 'til you get a hold of the Canon 7D, with 19 focus points! PLUS, there are soooooo many auto-focusing options on it:

• Single point autofocus
• Spot autofocus
• Autofocus point expansion
• Zone autofocus
• 19-point autofocus - the camera "randomly" selects an autofocus point...j/k!

Here's an animated GIF that shows all these different options (from Imaging Resource):

Oh, soooo many autofocusing choices!

It's funny that this topic would come up because I am spending a ton of time reading up on my Nikon D90 focusing system and trying to understand it.

I know I HATED my old Nikon D60 and it's 3 puny focusing points and I was thinking that that was the cause of my focusing problems. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was letting the camera pick the focus points.

I'll summarize what I've learned so far for the Nikon D90 in hopes that others can benefit from the info.

The D90 has 2 focusing control systems. (I'm not talking about Manual focus at all here.)

The first one AUTO FOCUS MODE - AFM tells the camera WHEN to focus.

The second focus control AUTO FOCUS AREA - AFA tells the camera WHERE to FOCUS.

AFM WHEN to FOCUS has:

AFS = auto focus single = when focus is set it stays that way and the camera will not auto refocus if YOU or the SUBJECT moves.

AFC = auto focus CONTINUOUS = camera keeps focusing until shutter release button depressed fully and picture is taken.

AFA = combo of above, 1st the camera uses AFS to lock focus but if the camera senses movement of SUBJECT OR PHOTOGRAPHER the focus control defaults to AFC.

AFA WHERE to FOCUS has:

Single point- you choose one of 11 D90 focusing points and the camera sticks with that focus bracket no matter what.
Dynamic Area- you select focus point BUT....
if Camera set to AFA or AFC AND subject moves, camera defaults to choosing focus. If camera set to AFS and Dynamic area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is movement (subject or photographer)
Auto Area - Camera chooses focus point NOT YOU.
3D Tracking - When in AFA or AFC focus mode you can select the focus point but movement will cause the camera to refocus based on new measurements. When using AFS the camera will stick with the first focus area and not correct for movement.


I can think of 2 primary shooting situations that I will need to adjust my focus parameters between.

Stationary subject = camera set to AFS-single point (slows shutter release because camera will only take picture when subject is in focus and this could take small amt of time)

Moving subject = camera set to AFA-Dynamic area ( I can select focus point but if Subject/Photographer moves camera overides my focus selection and calculates new focus point.

My only question is how well the focusing system will work snapping pictures of the Disney parades at night utilizing my Moving Subject scenario especially in such potentially tough lighting and movement situations. I guess it's just one of those things I will have to experience and see for myself.

I will be purchasing a 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus Lens for my next trip to the parks in June. I chose this lens primarily for it's tested sharpness across all ranges as opposed to it's bigger sister the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II Zoom Lens. I wanted a lens that would cover my range (18 -105) so I wouldn't have to keep swapping out between my 18-55 and 55 to 200 Nikon kit lenses.

My # 1 thing when taking pictures is that I want them to be SHARPLY focused...... so hopefully between understanding the D90's focusing system and using the proper lens I will achieve my goal!

I hope all this helps (somebody)

Marlton Mom

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Bump.

We git no love. Canon users .

 

[Groucho]

On my Nikon D90, (and probably in SOME of the Canon's) the center focusing point has 2 focus sensors at right angles to each other. They call this the "Cross Type Focus Point". This basically means that image contrast, which is what the camera uses to determine focus is measured in 2 directions (Horizontal and Vertical) versus just one direction that exists with the focus points that are surrounding the center focusing point.

I think that pretty much every DSLR has cross-type AF points in the center, and most in the few surrounding the center, and outside ones are single. In the Pentax world, nearly every one they've ever made has been 9 cross-types and two non-cross (I think vertical only) way off to the sides. Some of the AF systems with a high number of focus points have the majority non-cross-types - for example, the Nikon D7000 has 39 AF points but only 9 cross-type. The 7D does have all 19 cross-type. IMHO the only real-world advantage to these is for continuous autofocus tracking of a very small moving object. Note that most of us are shooting center-only or using just a few off-center. The only time I might want more precise control is on a tripod - and there, I can use liveview and have virtually infinite AF points. Either one - this is a feature that looks good on paper but I don't think makes such a difference in the real world. As long as the center point works well, what more do you need?

I have a nifty depth of field calculator on my smart phone which I use extensively when I'm using my 35mm F1.8 lens. This lens is BRUTAL for lack of Depth of field at short distances so it always amazes me when some one says that they will be using this lens on the dark rides.

This reminds me of what I just read that Samyang wrote about their about-to-be-released 35mm F1.4 lens... "Due to your recommendations we decided to add the focusing scale..." this is a great feature, almost mandatory IMHO for a prime lens.

35mm F1.8 should be fine for dark rides. The Sigma F1.4 is popular for this, and I've had very good luck with my Pentax 31mm F1.8.

Back to the original question - if you're shooting several shots in one burst and one is out of focus, then you probably have the camera in continuous autofocus mode. If you have it in the normal AF mode, it will only focus once in a burst, and all the photos will focus on the same point as the first one.

As for what do we use... I was center-point-only for a long time, no doubt because of years shooting with a manual-focus film camera where you had to focus and recompose because of the microprism focus assist in the center of the viewfinder. As I moved to the higher-end DSLRs with more controls, including an external selector for the focus type, I eventually began using "select your own"; usually on the center but sometimes to one side to avoid losing focus when recomposing with a small DoF. My current one lets you choose 5-pt or 11-pt for "auto", so I will sometimes put it in 5-pt auto if I'm doing something like taking a picture of a quick-moving child.

 

[MinnieForMe]

It doesn't take much to confuse me these days! I, too, have kids that don't want to stop for pictures just get them to the action!

So, I'm heading to Disney in a month. Tell me, Pentaxians, when should I move the focus to 11 points (if ever) or should I just continue to leave it on center point?

I'm going to reread the entire thread when I don't have someone saying "mommy, I need water', "mom, where's my homework", and the dogs jumping on me to go out!

 

[disneyboy2003]

It doesn't take much to confuse me these days! I, too, have kids that don't want to stop for pictures just get them to the action!

So, I'm heading to Disney in a month. Tell me, Pentaxians, when should I move the focus to 11 points (if ever) or should I just continue to leave it on center point?

Let me tell you a story that convinced me to NEVER let the camera select the autofocus point (ie. don't use the 11-point autofocus option).

My wife and I bumped into Edward James Olmos at Disney World, and we were stunned! Mr. Olmos was gracious enough to take a picture with us, so I whipped out my camera (Canon 30D at the time) to take a pictures of him & my wife.

Because I was new to dSLRs and because it was nighttime, I had no clue what camera settings to use, especially since I needed flash. I figured that the camera was smarter than me, so I set it on auto-everything, including letting the camera select the autofocus points.

Even though Mr. Olmos & my wife were just a few feet in front of me, my camera "decided" to focus on the bushes in the far background!!! The camera chose bushes in the upper right corner of my viewfinder as the focus point!!!

You'd think that the camera would "know" that my subject is the one that fills the frame, is closer to me, and is on the center autofocus point. Given all this, I'm baffled at why the camera chose to focus on those far away bushes!

Of course, I didn't realize all this until I got back to the hotel room to look at the photo. Ever since then, I have vowed NEVER to allow my dSLR to "guess" the autofocus point for me.

From then on, I have ALWAYS set my camera to focus ONLY on 1 autofocus point, and for a great majority of time, it's always the center autofocus point.

 

[MinnieForMe]

DisneyBoy:

Thank you for sharing that story! It makes me feel so much better as my 9 year old received an award from the Governor a month ago. I had the 11 point focus on, took a picture of my son and the governor and it didn't focus on them. I feel like a dummy more than I want too with my DSLR!

Although, I finally learned to run it with good results on TV mode. I'm loving my clear, action shots. Now, I'll change it to one point focus and hopefully I'll get a picture of the basketball player and not the ball in focus. LOL.

Michelle

 

[handicap18]

Maybe from the days of my 35mm slr's- I always focus and recompose. I don't recall any of them having more than the center focus point. I never even think to use any other focus point.

I never thought of that, but that makes a lot of sense. In high school I learned on a Canon AE1 Program and that had manual focus with just a single center focus point. Same with my dad's old Pentax which I used a lot in high school before I got my own slr.

 

[handicap18]

I'll post a few examples. These are 2 pictures I took back in 2006 just after I got my first dSLR, Nikon D50. It has 5 focus points. When I first got it I only used the default settings which were set up for the camera to choose the focus point...

There actually have been a few times where I have used the 21 point focus option on my D300 (it actually goes up to 51 points ). Usually when I'm in the picture, but right now I can't find any. If I come across any that show more than 1 focus point I'll post them.

 

[denise]

best thread I've read in a long time. Thank you...I have learned so much...

 

[jenseib]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

And this one I took just the other night. All the pics I took seem to just have a blah face, not details.

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

 

[Marlton Mom]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

And this one I took just the other night. All the pics I took seem to just have a blah face, not details.

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

We need more information in order to help you.

What kind of camera are you using?
What kind of lens?
What are the settings that you are using?

Generally speaking the wider open you have the aperture open (which means the smaller f stop numbers like 2.8, 3.5 etc) the narrower your depth of field will be. Depth of field refers to a zone of clarity and focus that changes with each F stop and focal (subject) distance.

This site hopefully will explain the concepts more eloquently than I can.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Good luck cracking your camera problems and I hope that you have a fantastic trip!

Marlton Mom

 

[jenseib]

We need more information in order to help you.

What kind of camera are you using?
What kind of lens?
What are the settings that you are using?

Generally speaking the wider open you have the aperture open (which means the smaller f stop numbers like 2.8, 3.5 etc) the narrower your depth of field will be. Depth of field refers to a zone of clarity and focus that changes with each F stop and focal (subject) distance.

This site hopefully will explain the concepts more eloquently than I can.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Good luck cracking your camera problems and I hope that you have a fantastic trip!

Marlton Mom

Canon 50D is what I am using. I use a couple of lenses. I think my best is the 50mm, but that one is not my favorite as I am either too close or too far from the object. But picture wise it takes the best. I probably need to use a smaller aperture to start with.

Which settings do you mean?

 

[Marlton Mom]

Canon 50D is what I am using. I use a couple of lenses. I think my best is the 50mm, but that one is not my favorite as I am either too close or too far from the object. But picture wise it takes the best. I probably need to use a smaller aperture to start with.

Which settings do you mean?

Do you use auto mode, manual mode, one of the program modes, like sports? Amongst other things this is what I meant by settings.

I am not really a Canon person so hopefully one of the Canon people will come to your rescue with more specific info.

Let's hear it Canonites! Can you help out Jenseib???

~MM