What's your feeling about getting a medal without finishing Princess?

[John VN]

I'm extremely internally motivated, so for me wearing a medal for a race I didn't finish and pretending I had would make me feel dishonest.

That said, I don't hold anything against those who got a medal but didn't finish as to that specific issue. It does nothing to diminish my accomplishment because I know what I did. Perhaps I'm used to the similar (but certainly not the same) argument that walkers shouldn't be considered finishers because it's a "run." People are entitled to their opinion, and if they don't consider my 3:21 1/2 or 6:47 full "legitimate" because I walked, that's fine with me. I know what I accomplished in my first races ever.

I realize that the arguments are not truly analogous but my point is that there will always be those who don't think someone else's performance in a race isn't worthy of a medal. There are those who think only the winner should get a medal. There are probably some who think even the winner shouldn't get one. That's OK. This is America. Truth be told, if we're honest all of us have that line where we would say "OK, that's too far. It's not a legitimate performance to warrant a medal." For me, I would call it the halfway point of the race. I would think if you make it to halfway you've put in a moderate amount of training and are more likely to be a victim of bad luck (injury, heat, etc.) and not in the crowd blogging about how great it is to be a "start and park" (yes, a NASCAR reference).

But ultimately it's Disney's race and they'll set their policies. Would I take a medal after getting swept? Yes I would. As I said, I'm internally motivated. I'm also motivated by negative emotions. So I would carry that stupid medal with me on every single training session for the next race, letting it mock me and remind me of past failure and pushing me to work ever harder. Once I finished the next race, I'd take the failure medal and chuck it off the tallest bridge I could find. Or maybe find a friend with a gun who would let me shoot it. Or introduce it to a table saw. Whatever. The point is it would die badly.

In the meantime it doesn't hurt me to have non-finishers get a medal, so I'm OK with it, though I do see the point of the crowd complaining about the "participant trophy" state of the country.

FT, I like your reply.

McFlurry not a Blizzard..... and thinking that there is an implication might be just as dangerous as assuming

 

[timmac]

These races are something that you have to plan out well over 6 months in advance. You pay good money to be there.

You're hitting on a huge point, which (at least relative to undertrained participants) I think explains a lot. People plan for the event way out, and pay money for it, then do it anyway even if they shouldn't.

I will never tell you that you do not deserve something because you did not finish. That is not the RunDisney way or quite frankly the WISH way.

As you pointed out, there is definitely a difference between someone not properly trained, and someone who literally tried their best, but didn't finish. A key point several of us have been hinting at though, is that "undertrained" and "didn't finish" are two groups with a huge overlap. If you're a non-finisher because of being unprepared, then that case certainly isn't the WISH way at all. Nor is it the runDisney way. (In fact, the waiver you sign says that you certify you are trained and capable of the event.)

Though I personally wouldn't want the medal if I didn't finish, I do agree that it's up to each individual whether or not they take it.

 

[cewait]

FT, I like your reply.

McFlurry not a Blizzard..... and thinking that there is an implication might be just as dangerous as assuming

Yeppers, I was going to correct then my post was quoted.

The confusion comes from the fact that every town in Texas has a First Baptist Church and a Dairy Queen. My hometown did not get a McD until after 2000.

 

[timmac]

Back in Nov I did a 10k...got lost and totally missed about 1 1/2 mi of the course. Got back on track and finished...my posts time said 8.32 min miles and the winner of my division. I told the race officials what happened and therefore would not accept any award. Also didn't turn the time in to rundisney...would not have been right to do just to get in an earlier corral. Maybe it's just me...

Sounds like all the right decisions

 

[tcmata]

The confusion comes from the fact that every town in Texas has a First Baptist Church and a Dairy Queen. My hometown did not get a McD until after 2000.

That is so very true!! A lot of the DQ's in the DFW area have closed. We took the kids on a road trip this summer from North TX to San Antonio/Austin. We lost count of how many DQ's we passed!

 

[Gryhndmom]

Yeppers, I was going to correct then my post was quoted.

The confusion comes from the fact that every town in Texas has a First Baptist Church and a Dairy Queen. My hometown did not get a McD until after 2000.

You know us TX baptist folks like to eat and run over to DQ before the Methodist get there !

Got DH and I registered for DL 1/2...,so not looking forward to training in the TX heat !

 

[timmac]

But it's not up to me to judge others and we each have our own story. runDisney got me off the couch and I felt undertrained for both my first half and my first full (but I finished both in respectable times). i learned from my training errors and did better the next time.

I think there are a lot of great stories, and particularly on a board like this, those are the folks we find here.

Just to be clear on my own opinions, and to avoid accidentally painting with too wide a brush, when I speak about being undertrained, I don't mean someone who just missed a few workouts, or who realizes they could have done better. I don't mean someone who is on the slower end of the pack. I also don't mean someone who has done plenty of races but just didn't prepare as well this time.

I'm talking solely about those individuals who have never done a major distance race (or only very rarely do them, and at that, only a Disney event), have never gone more than 3 miles, and/or knowingly can't keep close to the required pace. Anecdotally, there are definitely several who fall into this category. I'm hesitant to post exact quotes or twitter links, but things basically acknowledging literally having never run more than 3 miles, or imbibing liquor mid-course to "survive" the event. Things like that.

A slightly tangential question for anyone who attended any of the recent events: how many people wore their brand new Mickey shoes for the race? I really wonder how many people purchased them even if they aren't a good fit of shoe.

 

[MoonFaerie]

I know that WDW is very clever to avoid negative press but I didn't find any info on deaths from the race. I would hate to think that two people did in fact pass away resulting from these races and the heat and nothing was mentioned (that I could see).



Some years back I lived in London. A colleague (we didn't work together so I never knew him) from the same company had ran the race and collapsed at the very end and died. Very sad as he was quite young and at that time they had reported he had no health issues anyone was aware of.


This past race was certainly very hot and esp for a 26.2 mile journey. My brother felt aweful and it might have been the worse race he had ever done.He finished it though but not without feeling horrible for quite a while afterwards. I think people should just call it day if you feel terrible.

Right now sane me agrees with you. Feeling terrible at mile 10 of the princess half me clearly doesn't agree.

 

[jenelope]

I had a pretty horrible experience with the Princess this year. I trained at a 30/30 run/walk interval and though I didn't miss any long runs, I could have been better trained for the race. I knew I would be pushing the 3:30 time limit when I registered. Accordingly, I started in Corral G. It was 67 degrees at 5:00 AM and I was already sweating before the start line because of the humidity. The air was wet and heavy. I did my usual intervals until I got to the underpass leading into the Magic Kingdom when I ran into my first impassable bottleneck. I ended up walking through the Magic Kingdom because of the crowds (and because I hate running on concrete more than any other surface). When we got to the other side and the course widened up a bit, I started to run and both calves immediately cramped up. Biofreeze helped, but they came back every time I tried to run. At a certain point, I just decided to walk the rest and pray that I didn't get swept.

And I have to tell you, it was a real concern. As it turned out, the balloon ladies caught up to me around mile 10. I managed to pull ahead of them for about a mile, then kept pace with them for another mile or so. I actually had a conversation with one of them, confessing I'd been having nightmares about her for weeks. When we got into Epcot, they announced "Speed up, ladies, we're behind pace!" That's when a couple of us said, "We have nowhere to go!" Even if I had been able to run the last couple of miles, I was stuck with other walkers in front, behind and to all sides of me. It was all I could do to not step on people. At that point, I lost the balloon ladies and didn't care if I never saw them again.

I finished with a 3:42 which I am NOT happy about. Don't get me wrong- I'm happy I finished, but that was not the race I trained for. And if I had been swept and gotten a medal, it would have gone in the recycling. Probably the shirt, too. I trained as well as I could (illness and work travel did play a bit of havoc with my training) and I stopped for exactly one photo (Mickey- five steps from the finish line). I have new goals for Disneyland and Wine and Dine. The first is to improve my time and overall fitness level. I need to see a doctor about the leg cramps and foot issues. The second is to enter a half before Disneyland and obtain a proof of time that will get me out of Corral G. I'm not doing myself any favors by hanging out back there.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You know, believe it or not, I thought about this post long and hard.

I'm currently training to do the Food and Wine Half, going from couch to half marathon in about a year. I've given myself time and set up a training schedule that I've been following religiously since December. I've seen dramatic improvement, but I'm still not marathon-ready (despite being better then I was before I started training)... I understand good runs, bad runs, days where it comes together and days where it doesn't, being too tired to run but making a go at it anyway, and I've learned the difference between pushing myself and REALLY pushing myself... Since December, I've gone from power-walking three miles 20-minute miles, to doing a 15 minute mile with 30/30 run/walks over five miles. I know to you seasoned runners, that's really nothing... But for somebody like me, who was born with a heart condition that held her back her whole life, who at the age of 32 is finally tired saying "I can't" and is doing something about it, I feel like Lightning McQueen. I've changed everything in order to be able to do this marathon, everything from a healthier diet so I can do this safely (since I don't need to lose weight), to medications, to even finances so that I can afford to do all I want to do with my training and the marathon.

So the part of me who's working really, really hard to be able to do this gets really, really irritated at the idea that people meander an obligatory mile, get picked up by a bus, get handed a medal, and are turned lose to enjoy the post-run party while I'm running my butt off for 13.1 miles. It honestly doesn't seem fair that somebody who treated it as a joke gets the same recognition that I get after training for a year, then has the advantage of being the first to enjoy the event after the race for the racers. It makes me a little bitter about the whole process, honestly, from that perspective. I mean, run the Boston Marathon, play at the Olympics, they don't hand you a medal at the end because you invested a ton of time and money in something, didn't win, but were still a good trier. They just don't.

Then there's the other part of me that worries about what'll happen once I run at night, outside, in Florida weather (dramatically different from my NH training weather). I worry that heat or humidity will trigger a heart problem and I'll only be able to run part of it, have to walk the rest, and be in danger of being swept. If I were swept halfway through the race after all the work I've done, I'd be crushed. A part of me would honestly feel like, after spending all that time and effort to train, even though I didn't cross the finish line, I still deserve a medal for at least truly, and I mean truly, slamming my all at it for the better part of a year. And for those who do the same as me and don't make it, I don't begrudge them that.

In truth, if that were to happen, I probably wouldn't accept the medal regardless. It'd be a crushing, heartbreaking thing... But I wouldn't take it. For me, the accomplishment would be earned by finishing.

In the end... I reconciled the whole thing like this... By running the race, I get to see some magical, amazing things that I'd never have gotten to see if I hadn't gotten off my butt, trained, entered, and ran. Things that I can't do any other time. The distinct pride of knowing that I trained my best and either honorably didn't finish, or exuberantly crossed that line and got my medal... That's something that can't be taken away from me, no matter how somebody else earned their medal, either by work or by essentially paying for it then leisurely strolling until being scooped up and swept to the finish. And I get that other events don't hand out medals under such circumstances, but you know, it's a Disney marathon. It's not your typical marathon... And I have to tell you, if I cross that finish line at 3 hours, 29 minutes, 59 seconds, you will see me and I will be over-the-moon as if I'd won the whole shebang. I really won't care in the slightest how somebody else got there's, and it certainly won't make me less excited about my accomplishment.

In the end, I can hold mine up and say "I earned it," and that very fact alone is enough for me... Even if an hour before the race they stood out on the side of the road and handed them out to transients. I can still say that I worked for mine, that I earned it, I didn't "get it" from somebody. Would it be nice if it said "participant" or there was some designation on it that said they didn't finish? Sure, I guess. But in the end, it still doesn't matter to me enough to be overly bitter for very long about it. And when I cross that finish line, I won't care in the slightest or even think about or wonder if somebody else earned their medal or if they just got it.

You'd think after reconciling all of that and not really being worried one way or the other about it, it'd me I don't care about the medal itself... But I'm almost ashamed to say that, of everything I've ever wanted in my whole life, I've never wanted anything in the world as badly as I want that medal. I'm actually dressing up on race day as Vanellope Von Schweetz because all I want to do is cross the finish line and earn my medal. I don't need to be first, don't care if I'm last, I just want to finish.

 

[John VN]

Yeppers, I was going to correct then my post was quoted.

The confusion comes from the fact that every town in Texas has a First Baptist Church and a Dairy Queen. My hometown did not get a McD until after 2000.

That is so very true!! A lot of the DQ's in the DFW area have closed. We took the kids on a road trip this summer from North TX to San Antonio/Austin. We lost count of how many DQ's we passed!

You know us TX baptist folks like to eat and run over to DQ before the Methodist get there !

Got DH and I registered for DL 1/2...,so not looking forward to training in the TX heat !

You-all are soooo funny. Our town's DQ also disappeared but McD's is doing GREAT!

Tell you what, if I have an event in a town with a DQ adjacent to the race course, I'll stop for a Blizzard and if there is a DQ and a McD's, I'll stop at both places.

 

[Stitch_lover_Sith]

You're hitting on a huge point, which (at least relative to undertrained participants) I think explains a lot. People plan for the event way out, and pay money for it, then do it anyway even if they shouldn't.

As you pointed out, there is definitely a difference between someone not properly trained, and someone who literally tried their best, but didn't finish. A key point several of us have been hinting at though, is that "undertrained" and "didn't finish" are two groups with a huge overlap. If you're a non-finisher because of being unprepared, then that case certainly isn't the WISH way at all. Nor is it the runDisney way. (In fact, the waiver you sign says that you certify you are trained and capable of the event.)

Though I personally wouldn't want the medal if I didn't finish, I do agree that it's up to each individual whether or not they take it.

Hmm interesting point of view on the point I was trying to make. Someone starting an endurance event undertrained is not a good idea though I have done it myself many times. Life sometimes gets in the way and I do not want to waste my money. This being said I have finished each event I started that way.

RunDisney has you sign that waiver so you can't sue them, and it is required for their insurance. Every race director knows that at least some of the field will be undertrained at the start. Now after years of backlash from people who spent $$$ for their races and did not get given a chance to finish they give them a chance for the finisher medal.

At the end of the day it is someone's personal responsibility to train and we cannot tell someone that taking the medal they are offered is wrong.

 

[KippWade]

I'm currently training to do the Food and Wine Half, going from couch to half marathon in about a year. I've given myself time and set up a training schedule that I've been following religiously since December.

I'm about to go
I started C25K in March 2011 with the motivation that I signed up for the 2012 WDW Half Marathon. I spent most of the summer with C25K. I progressed into B210K (Bridge to 10K) and then started my Novice Half Marathon training right after that.

I was off pace and feared the worst for quite a while. When I came up and over the overpass coming off of World Drive, the END of the line was right behind me. I made it. It was my first race of any kind.

This year I thought I would do much better, but the heat got me on the back half of the race. By the time I was going through Epcot, I thought I was going to drop. I made it with an EXTREMELY disappointing 4 hours.

My next race kit purchase is going to be a hydration belt. I never want to experience that again. I have my 4th 1/2 coming in May and I've kinda/sorta committed to doing the Full in 2014.

And to bring this back into context of this topic...

If I would have been swept, I do not think I could have brought myself to take a medal. If I did, I probably would have given it to the Children's Hospital here in Indy to give to the kids.

Do I think it's right that others do? That's not for me to decide I think. I would hope that they would do as I would and just donate it to a worthy cause since I wouldn't have felt that I had earned it.

 

[aliron]

Everyday I check the boards and wonder why this is such a heated topic to warrant 7 pages. But here it is, I finally had to post to thank Tropical Wilds for such a great story.

At the end of the day, it is your own race, your own journey, your own medal. No one else's.

I thought that knowing that other people got medals for not finishing would be an insult. Does it really matter? I say no because it is truly: my race, my journey, my medal. No one else's.

Running my first marathon, changed my life. The run was truly an experiance.

Disney says to train at a 15 minute mile. Only each runner knows if they can reach that goal. Everyone signs a waiver and we all start the race. Some try to jump corrals for what ever reason but deep down, only each runner knows what they are capable of doing.

I understand the fear of the balloon ladies. I had the same fear but I was training at 13 min mile. If someone is straight with themself and they can not do the 15 min mile pace, I say they have no reason being in the race. They are a danger to themselves and to the other racers. Unfortunately, no one knows the truth until the race begins.

It will be a fact of all furture Disney races, there are going to be people who think they can but are lying to themself. They need Disney to validate their journey. Just hope that Disney limits the number or racers in a way that keeps those dangers to a minimum. Maybe actually validating the time submitted or having runners submit proof of time. If Disney can not validate, then put them in the back or out of the race.

At the end of the day, everyone has to look in the mirror or look at the medal. What ever they look at, they have to remember how or why they got there. Sure, there may be those that pay all that money just to get the medal. But at the end of the day, that was their race, their journey, their medal. Not mine.

Today, I am proud to call myself a marathoner. Finishing the journey within the required time limts. Next marathon, the only thing I need to prove is that I can be better then I was before. But still my race, my journey, my medal.

 

[EMHDad]

No one should be too unsure if they can complete a marathon on race day. There are some factors that can affect you. (illness, temperature, injury). However, completing a marathon is hard, but not impossible. Its a predictable process. It takes usually 4-6 months. 2 weeks before a marathon a person can say if they can run it or not.

When a person puts in FAR too little training runs, not enough miles, and basically putting in the time and effort.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I'm about to go
I started C25K in March 2011 with the motivation that I signed up for the 2012 WDW Half Marathon. I spent most of the summer with C25K. I progressed into B210K (Bridge to 10K) and then started my Novice Half Marathon training right after that.

I was off pace and feared the worst for quite a while. When I came up and over the overpass coming off of World Drive, the END of the line was right behind me. I made it. It was my first race of any kind.

This year I thought I would do much better, but the heat got me on the back half of the race. By the time I was going through Epcot, I thought I was going to drop. I made it with an EXTREMELY disappointing 4 hours.

My next race kit purchase is going to be a hydration belt. I never want to experience that again. I have my 4th 1/2 coming in May and I've kinda/sorta committed to doing the Full in 2014.

Thank you for the advice! I'll admit, I hadn't thought too much about what I'll need other then a good pair of shoes, a great pair of socks, and clothing that won't suffocate me... I'm almost entirely focused on the conditioning/training aspect right now. I will for sure though, based off your advice, probably get a hydration belt. My birthday is between now and the race, so I'll put it on my list. LoL!

Everyday I check the boards and wonder why this is such a heated topic to warrant 7 pages. But here it is, I finally had to post to thank Tropical Wilds for such a great story.

Glad you posted. It's nice to see others opinions on it.

 

[reagansmom]

It truly did bother me to find out that they were going to hand over a medal to me if I would have been picked up by the sweeper vans.

Before mile 6 (Frontierland bathrooms to be exact) I started feeling sick, dizzy, nauseous, short of breath. As a relative newbie runner I began training for Princess Half in mid-November never missed a run and stuck to my schedule in sub30 temps and did NOT prepare to meet the villainous humidity. I was on track to finish PHM at or right under 3:00.
However, my already slowed down 13-14mm pace fell to a ridiculous walking pace of 18mm + by mile 7. I continued to pull off at each medic tent to get checked out. I ended up at the tail end of runners and watched many people get picked up as I made it up the over pass over World Drive. I hadn't planned to stop for many photos but after realizing that I was completely missing my normal 3 hour finish time along with the medic stops I also stopped for Genie and the mile markers.

When I heard they were still being given a medal I felt so angry but even more determined to finish the 13.1. Here I was almost passing out from heat exhaustion, dehydration, basically crawling to the finish, but damn it I was going to EARN that medal.

Handing a medal over to someone who didn't complete the 13.1 miles in its entirety cheapens it for those of us that DID finish and it really pisses me off. So my question to runDisney is, did the pain sweat and tears I had to endure to EARN my medal doing the entire 13.1 miles was for nothing? Really?

I would NOT have accepted any medal if I had come in on the van.

I had a very similar experience. I am slow, but have been training since last summer. The heat/humidity killed me, but I was determined to finish.

 

[Gryhndmom]

No one should be too unsure if they can complete a marathon on race day. There are some factors that can affect you. (illness, temperature, injury). However, completing a marathon is hard, but not impossible. Its a predictable process. It takes usually 4-6 months. 2 weeks before a marathon a person can say if they can run it or not.

When a person puts in FAR too little training runs, not enough miles, and basically putting in the time and effort.

Totally agree with you....come race day you know if you have trained enough for the race..IMP if your not sure, you haven't trained right.

I had a very similar experience. I am slow, but have been training since last summer. The heat/humidity killed me, but I was determined to finish.

Good for you for finishing! DH and I were somewhat use to the humidity living in San Antonio but I can tell you it definitely slows you down on race day!

 

[EMHDad]

Totally agree with you....come race day you know if you have trained enough for the race..IMP if your not sure, you haven't trained right.

Exactly!! I have'nt run even a half yet myself. I am working towards the Dis Marathon 2014. ALready booked the room. However, I have run (in the fall) a 7 mile mud run on a mountain. Now, 30 seconds into the race I thought 'what did I get myself into?' (The race started by running down a mountain, through giant mudpits, and then crawling on hands and knees back up the mountain - about .1 miles total out of 7.0 miles) However, I had trained and made it up to 9 miles so I knew I could make it. It was hard, but I did it.

Barring injury/unique ground conditions, if you are unsure about a race you didn't train and being a fool.

 

[MoonFaerie]

No one should be too unsure if they can complete a marathon on race day. There are some factors that can affect you. (illness, temperature, injury). However, completing a marathon is hard, but not impossible. Its a predictable process. It takes usually 4-6 months. 2 weeks before a marathon a person can say if they can run it or not.

When a person puts in FAR too little training runs, not enough miles, and basically putting in the time and effort.

Do you mean pre-race you are unsure? Because I always hit that wall of doubt during any race, even shorter distances. It doesn't matter how trained and ready I am.

At the PHM, I was very confident going into it. I knew I wouldn't be super fast, but I wasn't worried about not finishing or getting swept. I didn't even expect to see the sweepers at all. At mile 9, I started getting overheated, and I really doubted that I could finish. I actually almost called it a day. Mile 10 I was so slow, getting my body temp down a little, and I was constantly watching over my shoulder for the sweepers. By the time we got to the green army man, I was feeling much better and much more confident. I did indeed finish without seeing the sweepers, but I hit that wall of doubt.

The 10k I did 2 weeks before the PHM went like this:
Mile 1: Woo-hoo! Look at me! I'm gonna own this race!
Mile 2-4: Whoops! Went out to fast. Where's the water stop? Why does it smell like skunk? Darn super rural race! Oooh, look horses! Man the lady behind me is breathing so loud. Wish I had music.
Mile 5: What was I thinking? I'm not a runner! Can I just quit now?
Mile 6: Woo-hoo! Look at me! PR baby!