What's your feeling about getting a medal without finishing Princess?

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I used to be of the thought that finishers medals were just for that. I am to an extent as well. No, I do not respect those that apparently walk barely anything, quit and still get a medal. I despise those that brag about it or even look at the bus as an option before they even start a race. It is never acceptable to me to even have that thought in your head. You start, you plan on finishing.

My view now is that if that medal inspires that person to come back next year and kick butt and actually finish, then give them a medal. If they actually expect to get a medal, no way. I faced the conundrum this year at the Marathon.

I started the Goofy feeling okay, but it was oh so hot and humid. Even Atlanta had been cold, so apparently, Florida didn't get the memo. I finished the Half but definitely felt a little affected by the heat and humidity. I had a bit of a headache and just took a nap and hoped for the best. It did make me feel better, so I was ready for the Marathon the next morning and honestly felt tired and a bit sore as anyone would going for that. I was fine up until the point that the sun came up. With the changes in the course, the part that affected me the most was the area in WWOS. Hardly any shade and the sun beating down was not fun. I realized that I wasn't sweating anymore, and I couldn't seem to drink enough or cool down. So, at Mile 20, I visited the medical tent with the hope that they would have a thermometer to make sure I wasn't dealing with heatstroke. But, they didn't. They covered me in many bags of ice and gave me 15 minutes to decide if I would continue. I don't think it was five minutes and I opted to continue with my friend. But, after Mile 21, I still felt weird, honestly can't remember the conversations I was having with my friend and saw the sweeper buses sitting around a corner. I knew that although physically I could finish the last five miles, that I had to make a decision and opted to ask the Guest Relations castmembers if I could get on the bus. It was easily the most difficult decision ever. The hardest part was knowing that I wouldn't be able to donate two medals to Medals4Mettle (the Marathon and Goofy) and it still bugs me. I did get a Marathon medal, but passed it on to my other half. He has always liked the medals, supports me all the time with my race schedule and won't ever be running anything over a 5K, so I thought it was good to give that to him. I have heard that some were able to get Goofy medals, but I didn't even try that.

I will say that when they finally did sweep, that I felt that all of those people did deserve those medals. It was hot, and very dangerous. There are rumors that two people died, and if giving someone a medal to get off the course is what it takes to keep someone safe, then I am all for it. I guarantee that none of those people were the types to wear a medal as though they did cross the finish line. I really do hope to see every single one of them next year. The common theme was that no one was ever going to run another Marathon, but I think we have all had those thoughts and changed our minds.

So, the moral of the story is that I could care less now if people get a medal or not. I donate all of my earned medals, and none of them are worth any less to the people receiving them because people at the same race I crossed the finish line got medals for not doing that. I would be angry if everyone who registered for a Disney race got a medal regardless of if they were there or not. But, I have yet to ever hear of any race that does that, thankfully.

Perhaps if we all witnessed people being swept, instead of just listening to rumors, we would all have a different view.

 

[Lawyer Mommy]

I like this thread. It is a tough issue. I don't really understand why someone wants the medal if they didn't finish. I wouldn't want it as it would have no positive meaning for me at all. I would absolutely turn it down. But a part of me says what does it hurt for someone to get the medal if it would mean something to them. That doesn't downgrade my accomplishment in finishing.

And I think that's where I'd normally come out EXCEPT that in the case of the Disney races there seem to be abnormally large amounts of people who are completely ill-trained. The PHM last weekend was my first Disney race, and I was stunned by that. I'm even more stunned by the blog linked above.

Clearly there are people who have done NOTHING to train and show up to get the medal. To discourage them, perhaps medals should only be given to the finishers. That would probably help. It's a safety issue for the people who have trained and are trying desperately to get around the untrained people, and it's a safety issue for the untrained. No one who hasn't trained properly should get out on a course and try to go 13.1 miles. That's insane.

Perhaps one solution would be to require registrants to show proof of completion of a 10k in a time that demonstrates that you can complete the 1/2 marathon within the 16 minute per mile pace. That would discourage people who simply don't want to put in the training time. And it would preserve the medal for not finishing option for those who want a medal regardless of whether they finished or not and who did train hard but had something unforeseen happen on the course.

 

[Phdmama06]

I can go either way with this.

For me personally, I know I finished and that medal is priceless to me as it serves as a reminder of an accomplishment. If others are satisfied with not finishing and get a medal it may represent something different or they may be happy with that.

On the other side (don't hate me for this) I get a little irritated because the RunDisney events seem to be attracting quite a few people who are no where near ready to complete the races. I personally don't care how you complete them run / walk / run-walk but those who aren't ready for it are getting in the way of others trying to go around them during the ratce as well as eating up spots for sold out races.

If Disney starts cracking down on non-finishers (no medal), people may be a little deterred from signing up if they aren't ready or in training to complete the race. I'm all for everyone trying but it seems like there are quite a few people not finishing and with each year/race the number is growing.

This post sums up how I feel about it. I am all for people getting off the couch and being active, but I worry that Disney is enticing people to attempt long distances before they are truly ready. That not only poses a safety hazard for these participants, but also potentially endangers other runners as numbers of participants swell and courses get more crowded, particularly with people not familiar with race etiquette and safety. Sure, I understand that any runner or walker might have a bad day, in spite of training, and may not finish. It could happen to anyone. I just worry a lot about those who don't seem to have even prepared at all, and I feel bad to see so many people in such a bad way at a typical Disney finish line. I would prefer that Disney discontinued their practice of giving medals to everyone.

I personally don't think I would accept a medal if swept just because I wouldn't feel comfortable with it, although admittedly I can't know for sure what I would do without ever having been in that situation, the decision to accept one, or not, when offered is personal, and I don't judge other's decisions. Whatever others do doesn't hurt me, and doesn't change how I feel about my finish or the value of the medal to me. In the end, it's a material thing that sits on a shelf. If something happened and I lost all my finishers medals, i wouldn't have the hunk of medal but would always have the sense of accomplishment from the races I've finished.

 

[FFigawi]

I'm not judging--just wondering how most of you feel about this. I know somebody who got swept at Mile 5 of the Princess Half. The race officials loaded those who were behind pace at that point onto a bus, drove them to the finish line, and gave them the medal. So really, it's more of a participant's medal and not a finisher's medal. Are you okay with this?

No, not at all.

 

[rmgreenesq]

Disney has a strong incentive to give the finisher's medal to those who are swept. They purchase a finishers medal for everybody who enters the race, even though they know a certain percentage of entrants will not finish.

Disney buys too many metals for two reasons: 1. Their prediction as to how many entrants will finish is just a prediction, and 2. Disney is so show/guest oriented, they don't want to run out of medals. They want a medal for the last person who finishes the race. They buy more than they really need, because they don't know how many they will need.

So now what do you do with the left over medals? Can't sell them in the parks or online. Why not give them to the people who were swept? Otherwise they just take up space in a warehouse.

Rick

 

[PrincessV]

This post sums up how I feel about it. I am all for people getting off the couch and being active, but I worry that Disney is enticing people to attempt long distances before they are truly ready.

I agree with this 100%. Personally, the medals don't mean much to me; for me, it's the journey that gets me to a race that means the most and, for whatever reason, the medal doesn't serve as a visual reminder of that. For me. I completely understand that many others see it differently, so I tend to feel that medals should be for finishers for that reason alone. Because it's really not all about me, lol!

Would eliminating medals for non-finishers help reduce the number of totally unprepared racers at Disney events? IDK. Maybe. I can't really think of any better way. I wound up running a ridiculously slow TOT due to injury, so, even though I'd put in the training and was more than prepared for a faster race, I wound up spending much of it in the far back with a whole lotta folks I imagine weren't adequately prepared. It was downright scary, how bad some looked. I lost count of how many times I asked in passing, "Are you okay?" Now, heat was a major factor in that one, so it's hard to say how much was due to that vs. undertraining, but still - scary.

 

[Danhockey04]

So now what do you do with the left over medals?
Rick

Donate them to that medal organization. Much better cause than giving to those that did not earn the medal, no matter how much you trained, you only earn the medal if you finish.

 

[JCH]

Disney has a strong incentive to give the finisher's medal to those who are swept. They purchase a finishers medal for everybody who enters the race, even though they know a certain percentage of entrants will not finish.

Disney buys too many metals for two reasons: 1. Their prediction as to how many entrants will finish is just a prediction, and 2. Disney is so show/guest oriented, they don't want to run out of medals. They want a medal for the last person who finishes the race. They buy more than they really need, because they don't know how many they will need.

So now what do you do with the left over medals? Can't sell them in the parks or online. Why not give them to the people who were swept? Otherwise they just take up space in a warehouse.

Rick

If the concern is space in a warehouse, why not just hand them out to random spectators? That's pretty much the same thing. The spectators also got up early and are spending money at Disney!

I just don't buy that logic. They can always donate them to a charity that gives the medals to kids with illnesses. There are several of them, some of which don't care if the medal was earned and would take the donation.

 

[sissy_ib]

I will say that when they finally did sweep, that I felt that all of those people did deserve those medals. It was hot, and very dangerous. There are rumors that two people died, and if giving someone a medal to get off the course is what it takes to keep someone safe, then I am all for it. I guarantee that none of those people were the types to wear a medal as though they did cross the finish line. I really do hope to see every single one of them next year. The common theme was that no one was ever going to run another Marathon, but I think we have all had those thoughts and changed our minds.

I am in a few FB groups for Princess and one woman told us she was swept but her profile pic is of her wearing her medal in the parks. Don't get me wrong, I think that going out there and getting to mile 8 of a half or like you mile 21+ of a full (Especially after a half the day before) is a great accomplishment. Each race is a different experience and I'm sure there were plenty of people who trained hard but were not used to the heat/humidity and that stopped them. I know it slowed me down. But,IMO, that woman should not have been wearing the medal in the parks.

Disney has a strong incentive to give the finisher's medal to those who are swept. They purchase a finishers medal for everybody who enters the race, even though they know a certain percentage of entrants will not finish.

Disney buys too many metals for two reasons: 1. Their prediction as to how many entrants will finish is just a prediction, and 2. Disney is so show/guest oriented, they don't want to run out of medals. They want a medal for the last person who finishes the race. They buy more than they really need, because they don't know how many they will need.

So now what do you do with the left over medals? Can't sell them in the parks or online. Why not give them to the people who were swept? Otherwise they just take up space in a warehouse.

Rick

Send them back and have them melted down or destroyed in some other way?

 

[bwolfe]

To me it's a finisher's medal. DW and I trained hard for this race. It was my first race of this distance and I'm hooked. To be quite frank, it bothers me more to see medals on EBAY and people bidding on them. This I just don't understand.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

Donate them to that medal organization. Much better cause than giving to those that did not earn the medal, no matter how much you trained, you only earn the medal if you finish.

We don't take donated medals that have not been earned at Medals4Mettle. It makes absolutely no sense to give a medal to someone, telling them to continue pushing on when the medal you have in your hand isn't from someone that pushed on.

I can say that Disney doesn't give you an option when giving medals for being swept. Those volunteers are the best around and it makes them feel better to give the medals. Most people took them off immediately after receiving them. Of course there are going to be those few that parade around with an unearned medal. Disney isn't the only race series that does this. I agree that no one has any business wearing a medal they didn't earn from crossing a finish line.

On that note, if you do want to donate your earned medals, this is a local news story about our visit with these medals on Wednesday and proof of why earned medals are only accepted by Medals4Mettle:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/280334/40/Race-medals-recycled-for-sick-kids-

 

[Rose&Mike]

I think IF they are going to give them out, they should at least take them off the lanyards. Honestly, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. It does bother me that so many people are showing up undertrained. Only by putting in the miles do you learn to listen to your body and respect the miles, the heat, and the humidity.

 

[timmac]

Been a while since I've frequented this board, but stopped by as a result of a discussion I was having on facebook, where I pointed out that the runDisney races have gotten pretty bad regarding untrained individuals. To the original point, I would say that if you don't finish, you don't get a medal.

A statistic to consider, make of it what you will: 19% of finishers of the princess didn't meet the 3:30 pace requirement, at least 1500 of whom were over the 3:45 mark. I realize some stuff can happen with regards to crowd, weather, injury, etc, but that's an awful lot of people substantially slower than the requirement. Of course, it's up to each individual's personal recognizance to decide what issues may have been present or whatever. That said, I look at that as a pretty strong indicator that a lot of people don't take it seriously and don't train properly. That so many successfully finished anyway suggests things like corral jumping were taking place as well. All in all, it feels like something of a disservice to the sport.

 

[sissy_ib]

Been a while since I've frequented this board, but stopped by as a result of a discussion I was having on facebook, where I pointed out that the runDisney races have gotten pretty bad regarding untrained individuals. To the original point, I would say that if you don't finish, you don't get a medal.

A statistic to consider, make of it what you will: 19% of finishers of the princess didn't meet the 3:30 pace requirement, at least 1500 of whom were over the 3:45 mark. I realize some stuff can happen with regards to crowd, weather, injury, etc, but that's an awful lot of people substantially slower than the requirement. Of course, it's up to each individual's personal recognizance to decide what issues may have been present or whatever. That said, I look at that as a pretty strong indicator that a lot of people don't take it seriously and don't train properly. That so many successfully finished anyway suggests things like corral jumping were taking place as well. All in all, it feels like something of a disservice to the sport.

I think part of it is all the stops. I talked to a few people who can run a half in 2:30 but it took them 3:30 because of stopping for character pics. I only stopped a few times with characters but I also stepped off course a few time to take photos and I was 20 minutes slower than my last half. That said worked hard to come in at 3:11. I did not want to be over the 3:30 limit even though I was far from the sweepers.

 

[timmac]

I think part of it is all the stops. I talked to a few people who can run a half in 2:30 but it took them 3:30 because of stopping for character pics. I only stopped a few times with characters but I also stepped off course a few time to take photos and I was 20 minutes slower than my last half. That said worked hard to come in at 3:11. I did not want to be over the 3:30 limit even though I was far from the sweepers.

I don't doubt that's part of it. And certainly the general crowding doesn't help either. But again, it still ties into the overall preparation. At risk of sounding a bit hard-nosed, I lean towards thinking that one should plan for the time they may lose stopping for pictures and the like.

Either way, it still remains that a lot of people simply aren't trained. Though it's hard to judge accurately from numbers alone, I'm sure many of us know the anecdotal references of those who've pointed out that "wow, I have only done three miles at a time, and it was like 17 minutes a mile, but I'm still doing this race" or something similar.

 

[JCH]

Been a while since I've frequented this board, but stopped by as a result of a discussion I was having on facebook, where I pointed out that the runDisney races have gotten pretty bad regarding untrained individuals. To the original point, I would say that if you don't finish, you don't get a medal.

A statistic to consider, make of it what you will: 19% of finishers of the princess didn't meet the 3:30 pace requirement, at least 1500 of whom were over the 3:45 mark. I realize some stuff can happen with regards to crowd, weather, injury, etc, but that's an awful lot of people substantially slower than the requirement. Of course, it's up to each individual's personal recognizance to decide what issues may have been present or whatever. That said, I look at that as a pretty strong indicator that a lot of people don't take it seriously and don't train properly. That so many successfully finished anyway suggests things like corral jumping were taking place as well. All in all, it feels like something of a disservice to the sport.

I am one of those, because I stopped for 8 pictures. I only stop at Disney races. MANY of the people with higher times are 2:30-3 hour halfers who spent 30 minutes or more in picture lines, and ended up with times above 3:30.

Edit: And yes, we do account for time. We know what corral we are in, and therefore how much extra time we have for pictures. I know I run a 3 hourish half on a normal day, so a 3:15 on a day that hot and humid, so in Corral E, I can spend no more than 45 minutes on pictures and bathroom stops in order to finish. It's highly calculated.

 

[kanadar]

This was my first half marathon and I wasn't sure how I felt about this topic UNTIL I finished the race. I worked my butt off to finish, had to walk more than I wanted to but I made sure I was keeping a fast walking pace, passing people who were slow jogging. When I finished I was proud of myself. I see the medal and think to myself you EARNED that you did it!

If I had been swept I can't say with 100% certainty but I think I would turn down the medal. I wouldn't want it knowing that I didn't finish the race. I agree, I don't know if making the 5k medals smaller, similar versions would help but I know I ran passed several people who did not look like they should have been there. Its dangerous.

 

[andrea9873]

It truly did bother me to find out that they were going to hand over a medal to me if I would have been picked up by the sweeper vans.

Before mile 6 (Frontierland bathrooms to be exact) I started feeling sick, dizzy, nauseous, short of breath. As a relative newbie runner I began training for Princess Half in mid-November never missed a run and stuck to my schedule in sub30 temps and did NOT prepare to meet the villainous humidity. I was on track to finish PHM at or right under 3:00.
However, my already slowed down 13-14mm pace fell to a ridiculous walking pace of 18mm + by mile 7. I continued to pull off at each medic tent to get checked out. I ended up at the tail end of runners and watched many people get picked up as I made it up the over pass over World Drive. I hadn't planned to stop for many photos but after realizing that I was completely missing my normal 3 hour finish time along with the medic stops I also stopped for Genie and the mile markers.

When I heard they were still being given a medal I felt so angry but even more determined to finish the 13.1. Here I was almost passing out from heat exhaustion, dehydration, basically crawling to the finish, but damn it I was going to EARN that medal.

Handing a medal over to someone who didn't complete the 13.1 miles in its entirety cheapens it for those of us that DID finish and it really pisses me off. So my question to runDisney is, did the pain sweat and tears I had to endure to EARN my medal doing the entire 13.1 miles was for nothing? Really?

I would NOT have accepted any medal if I had come in on the van.

 

[cimrk01]

I think part of it is all the stops. I talked to a few people who can run a half in 2:30 but it took them 3:30 because of stopping for character pics.

I don't doubt that's part of it. And certainly the general crowding doesn't help either. But again, it still ties into the overall preparation. At risk of sounding a bit hard-nosed, I lean towards thinking that one should plan for the time they may lose stopping for pictures and the like.

Either way, it still remains that a lot of people simply aren't trained. - See more at: http://www.disboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=47666112#sthash.N0x6I6Zv.dpuf

Me and my running partner were trained to run a half between 2:15-2:25. We were able to land in "B" corral. Weeks leading up to the race we knew we weren't going to finish in the expected 2:30 mark for our corral due to her IT band flaring up. Being her pacing leader I introduced running intervals to accommodate her and estimated during our final long run a week before the race we could finish in 2:53 easily.

Having said that, this was to be our first half running together and decided days before the race to stop for only three photos along the course. The Pirates, Mickey and Minnie at the Castle, and the Villains. We expected a 5-10 minute wait per photo.

Each line ended up taking roughly 20minutes. You can guess as to when we finished.

Every time we resumed running after each photo we attempted to gain back some of the time we had lost while waiting by weaving between crowds and running mostly on the grass after mile 8+ trying to avoid walkers but the lines for the photos killed our final time. It is what it is. But knew going into our first half this wasn't the race to do photos and expect to PR. We enjoyed it and we were certainly not under trained. Just didn't expect the lines to have been as long as they were.

 

[Stitch_lover_Sith]

I think at the end of the day what this debate comes down to is how you feel about a medal. I have personal experience, I did not have an official finish time for Hawaii 70.3 three years ago. They were nice enough to give me my medal and finisher shirt. I did finish and quite frankly I would be pissed if anyone had said I did not deserve the medal they gave me. People are getting out of bed at 3am and doing a Disney race. If they started then they deserve something to show for that.

What the question really is when you are in that situation will you take the medal or not. No one else has the right to decide for you or look down on your decision.