What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[lovethattink]

Lovethattink, I hope you give the doctors who saved your Dad's life some credit too. It's heartbreaking to read the stories of people who refuse a doctor's care and rely only on prayer.

Trust me, we all expressed our gratitude for everyone at the hospital. They were all fantastic.

The point is, I was a 15 year old kid when this happened. The surgeons who operated on my dad had very little hope for him. They themselves said it was a miracle. Each one who came up to us the days following the surgery said they expected him to die on the table.

When he first presented to the ER he was diagnosed with flu and sent home! He passed out on the way to the car. So they admitted him for observation. During the night his vitals went crazy, so they transported him by ambulance to another hospital (45 minutes away) for tests. It was at this 2nd hospital where he was diagnosed with an aneurysm. One of his surgeons was one of the docs called to operate on Kennedy when he was shot. He had never made it in time to operate on Kennedy. So for sure my dad was in able hands. But look at that. The coincidence is too great to end up at just the right hospital at just the right time with just the right surgeon, when he was just hours before diagnosed as having flu!

 

[orljustin]

For every "miracle" that happens in a hospital, there's someone else who was "praying" for a happy life, and ended up getting hit by a car that morning. Things happen, and just because you can't explain them doesn't mean a spaghetti monster is running around pulling strings.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Thanks for sharing that story, lovethattink. When something like that happens it is hard to deny or forget, isn't it?

 

[cardaway]

For every "miracle" that happens in a hospital, there's someone else who was "praying" for a happy life, and ended up getting hit by a car that morning. Things happen, and just because you can't explain them doesn't mean a spaghetti monster is running around pulling strings.

And further more, I'm living proof that not every "miracle" survivor, or their family, goes on to pray to the big noodle in the sky.

 

[lovethattink]

Maybe if I didn't keep a prayer journal I would not see the how powerful the "spaghetti monster" is. The coincidences in my life are just too numerous. You can say it's just dumb luck, but I prefer to call my dumb luck as the power of God.


cardaway---just because you don't pray to him doesn't mean that he hasn't touched your life. He does see the needs of everyone, not just believers

 

[orljustin]

cardaway---just because you don't pray to him doesn't mean that he hasn't touched your life. He does see the needs of everyone, not just believers

So, then what's the point?

 

[jamimb]

I know my child loves candy. this information is with me all the time but I dont make a habit of giving to her unless she asks for it. I think sometimes God just wants us to ask. I can see a huge difference in my life since i have become a Christian. God had his hand over me before now but now my prayers have been answered in such marvelous and surprising ways. God's timing never ceases to amaze me. think of it this way my child's teacher is very much a part of my child's life but not to the extent that I am as her parent. God is always involved in all our lives but when we trust him and commit our lives to him we become more like children to him and he becomes much more involved in our lives.

 

[lovethattink]

So, then what's the point?

Because He wants us to ask. He made us to have a relationship Him.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

doesn't mean the reward will be the answer you want to that prayer, could be a different blessing. (Could be something as simple as Peace and Joy in hard times. To help us get through those sticky situations.) Might not be what or how we think He should handle it.

Here are two great books written by atheists who in their pursuit of proving that God doesn't exist, they ended up proving opposite.

The Case for Christ by Lee Stroebel

The Source by John Clayton and Nils Jansma

 

[orljustin]

Because He wants us to ask. He made us to have a relationship Him.

Like a puppy? He's got nothing better to do than create humans as sea monkeys?

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

What about the rest of us that get plenty of rewards?

doesn't mean the reward will be the answer you want to that prayer, could be a different blessing. (Could be something as simple as Peace and Joy in hard times. To help us get through those sticky situations.) Might not be what or how we think He should handle it.

So, you can pray all you want, and you either get what you want, or you don't. Works out pretty nice. Either way, you get to keep believing.

 

[jamimb]

Like a puppy? He's got nothing better to do than create

monkeys?

do you have any children? Why do we have children?? Because we want someone to love and someone that will love us right back. We want a relationship with that child. God wanted the same thing a child to love and one that would love him by choice. sure he could have made all of us to be puppets on a string but he didnt he wants us to choose to love him choose to have a relationship . You woulndt want to think your child loved you because it was made to would you. This is the beauty of the free will God has given to us all. i dont want someone to be made to love me i want it to be a choice they make. My husband didnt marry me beacuse I held a gun to him and made him.
What about the rest of us that get plenty of rewards?



So, you can pray all you want, and you either get what you want, or you don't. Works out pretty nice. Either way, you get to keep believing.[/QUOTE

 

[lovethattink]

Like a puppy? He's got nothing better to do than create

monkeys?

do you have any children? Why do we have children?? Because we want someone to love and someone that will love us right back. We want a relationship with that child. God wanted the same thing a child to love and one that would love him by choice. sure he could have made all of us to be puppets on a string but he didnt he wants us to choose to love him choose to have a relationship . You woulndt want to think your child loved you because it was made to would you. This is the beauty of the free will God has given to us all. i dont want someone to be made to love me i want it to be a choice they make. My husband didnt marry me beacuse I held a gun to him and made him.

.[/QUOTE

Nicely said.

 

[SuBeat]

I had a well thought out post all ready to send when the wind knocked my power out. Now I'm just going to cut to the chase.

While I've enjoyed reading this thread, I had no desire to get involved. But, I did wonder about this...

If you believe that God chooses to answer the prayers of some with miraculous recoveries, do you also believe that He ignores the prayers of others by allowing their loved ones to die?

I just can't believe that He is up there, picking and choosing who lives and dies. Even worse is the theory that He will only bless those that are "right" with Him by granting their prayers. That just seems kind of petty to me.

When my mother died almost 5 months ago, my son asked me why God let that happen. I told him that God didn't cause her to have that heart attack, and He didn't decide to let her die...that isn't how it works. She died because of several contributing causes that she just couldn't overcome anymore, not because of what God did or didn't do.

 

[orljustin]

do you have any children? Why do we have children?? Because we want someone to love and someone that will love us right back. We want a relationship with that child. God wanted the same thing a child to love and one that would love him by choice.

I'm not all powerful, all knowing, etc. I would assume that my desires as a parent do not mimic those of what you believe god wants. God was lonely, so he created people as pets? No thanks. It's funny how the more you guys post of your beliefs, the more it makes me adverse to ever agreeing with them.

 

[jamimb]

[

QUOTE=orljustin]I'm not all powerful, all knowing, etc. I would assume that my desires as a parent do not mimic those of what you believe god wants. God was lonely, so he created people as pets? No thanks. It's funny how the more you guys post of your beliefs, the more it makes me adverse to ever agreeing with them.

[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
Now your just not making sesnse. So what if I was all knowing would that make me want someone to love and love me in return any less. One has nothing to do with the other. If you are a parent how can you not see the parrallel (spelled wrong) Why would you assume that your desires as aparent would'nt mimic God's desire as a parent. Lets not forget that it was God who designed the parent-child relationship. If I believe what the Bible says (which I do!!!!!!) We were made in his image. Does that mean that we are God like NO but we have to conclude that we have possess traits that God also possess. Maybe one of those similarities is the need to love and nurture and be loved in return.

 

[jamimb]

I'm not all powerful, all knowing, etc. I would assume that my desires as a parent do not mimic those of what you believe god wants. God was lonely, so he created people as pets? No thanks. It's funny how the more you guys post of your beliefs, the more it makes me adverse to ever agreeing with them.

By the way what would make you think God created people as pets?

 

[orljustin]

By the way what would make you think God created people as pets?

Well, according to typical religion, he provides all, and gets some licks on the hand in return.

 

[jamimb]

I had a well thought out post all ready to send when the wind knocked my power out. Now I'm just going to cut to the chase.

While I've enjoyed reading this thread, I had no desire to get involved. But, I did wonder about this...

If you believe that God chooses to answer the prayers of some with miraculous recoveries, do you also believe that He ignores the prayers of others by allowing their loved ones to die?

I just can't believe that He is up there, picking and choosing who lives and dies. Even worse is the theory that He will only bless those that are "right" with Him by granting their prayers. That just seems kind of petty to me.

When my mother died almost 5 months ago, my son asked me why God let that happen. I told him that God didn't cause her to have that heart attack, and He didn't decide to let her die...that isn't how it works. She died because of several contributing causes that she just couldn't overcome anymore, not because of what God did or didn't do.

Im sorry to hear about you mother. I too lost my mom. I was 15 yrs old at the time and it was hard but I have seen such wonderful things come of it. At the time my sister was a drug addict,flunkingschool, and altogether on the worng track and this death woke her up so to speak. she is now in her late twenties, married , serves in our church, and a wonderful mother to a beautiful 2 yr old. I dont know where she would be today had it not been for that tradegy in our lives. Everything happens for a purpose. we might not see it now but I know everything happens for a reason. God has a plan for all of us as individuals and collectively as a whole. One day in heaven I beleive we are gonna go "oh so thats why that had to happen". Bottom line my children dont always understand everything I do and sometimes they thing Im being just plain cruel in my decisions but I am wiser than them. I see the big picture where they dont sometimes and I make decisions based on what is best for them even we they dont realize it is all for their good.

 

[jimmiej]

I had a well thought out post all ready to send when the wind knocked my power out. Now I'm just going to cut to the chase.

While I've enjoyed reading this thread, I had no desire to get involved. But, I did wonder about this...

If you believe that God chooses to answer the prayers of some with miraculous recoveries, do you also believe that He ignores the prayers of others by allowing their loved ones to die?

I just can't believe that He is up there, picking and choosing who lives and dies. Even worse is the theory that He will only bless those that are "right" with Him by granting their prayers. That just seems kind of petty to me.

When my mother died almost 5 months ago, my son asked me why God let that happen. I told him that God didn't cause her to have that heart attack, and He didn't decide to let her die...that isn't how it works. She died because of several contributing causes that she just couldn't overcome anymore, not because of what God did or didn't do.

I believe God answers ALL prayers. Yes, no, or wait. Just like a parent would do with their child.

 

[jamimb]

[

QUOTE=orljustin]Well, according to typical religion, he provides all, and gets some licks on the hand in return.

[/QUOTE]

Yes he does provide all just like a parent does for their children. there is not a need in my child's life that I dont meet . I meet their needs because I love them and they love me also. Where are you getting confused? I dont know what religon you are speaking of but there is no licking going on here. I love God, obey God and trust God just as I do my earthly parents.

 

[jamimb]

I believe God answers ALL prayers. Yes, no, or wait. Just like a parent would do with their child.

Well said! I dont give my child a cookie everytime she asks for it. I am her parent and I know what is best for her even when she dosent! Sometimes we ahve to say no and sometimes God has to say no. i agree he always answers prayer it just might not be the answer we wanted.