What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[JennyMominRI]

Wow, this is still going on? Hi Jenny! I'll throw in a word and then I have to go to bed! If Jesus was not God, then all the good He did was worth nothing! His very name, Immanuel, means "God with us". In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." I know it is a leap of faith to believe in Jesus and all He is. Jesus is that Word. The difference is the written Word of God came to life. He fulfilled God's plan to redeem or purchase back mankind. God wanted a family. It is what we all want really. To have someone to love and to be loved. Love you Jenny, I think about you often! I have been too busy to get on the boards. Should calm down after Thanksgiving and then again after Christmas! Holidays, busy times for us Christians! God bless!

Hi joyce

 

[KikiFan]

LOL! Okay!
I was thinking Ricky Martin.

I wondered if that's who you meant! Mmmmm Ricky.

I guess that it could be that Kiki too!

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

ETA: Isn't it funny that we spend so much time debating what a Christian is? When the fact is that Jesus never intended to start the whole new religion of Christianity. He intended to simply teach us to be better people.[/QUOTE]

Well Christians do believe Jesus intended to start a Church not a religion. Church meaning a Body of Believers not a denomination or a building. He said Peter would be the Rock the church would build on. Jesus was to be the head of the church and believer's the Body. To go into all the world and tell them the good news that Jesus has come to bridge the gap between God the Father and mankind.

 

[jamimb]

Okay let me try to clarify here. We all seemed to get caught up in the word God. God himself has three personas the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father. This is the trinity and they are all under the heading of God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Yes Jesus was God but still different than the Father . Most of us when we say God are probably referring to the Father but it could apply to all three.

 

[Saxsoon]

Okay let me try to clarify here. We all seemed to get caught up in the word God. God himself has three personas the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father. This is the trinity and they are all under the heading of God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Yes Jesus was God but still different than the Father . Most of us when we say God are probably referring to the Father but it could apply to all three.

C.S. Lewis (though I am sure his reputation has now been tarnished here) thought of it like a cube. There are six squares, but those six squares help form the whole, or the cube. I would like to think of the Trinity like that.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

It was mentioned in an earlier post that Jesus did not claim to be God. The Jewish leaders believed He claimed that, according to scripture. I know scripture is the "hinge" on which Christianity is hung, but many have said that Jesus was a good man and a great example. Where did that information come from? If the Bible is inaccurate or not totally believable, how could we even think there was accurate information for anything about Jesus. Here is a quote from John 5:18 - 23

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Matthew 26:64 says that Caiaphas asked Jesus if He was the Son of God which in this instance means by nature not by association and Jesus did not deny it.

 

[ford family]

It was mentioned in an earlier post that Jesus did not claim to be God. The Jewish leaders believed He claimed that, according to scripture. I know scripture is the "hinge" on which Christianity is hung, but many have said that Jesus was a good man and a great example. Where did that information come from? If the Bible is inaccurate or not totally believable, how could we even think there was accurate information for anything about Jesus. Here is a quote from John 5:18 - 23

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Matthew 26:64 says that Caiaphas asked Jesus if He was the Son of God which in this instance means by nature not by association and Jesus did not deny it.

So, when you do the "Our Father, who art in heaven" routine does that mean you all think you are God ?

ford family

 

[KikiFan]

<shrug> It's all in interpretation. I read these quotes and there is nothing in them that makes me think he is saying he is God. Only that he was equal to God.

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
equal to does not mean the same as

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
To me this just means that when we work in partnership with God we have the power of God

For the sake of the people who hate reading the Quotes, I'm not going to dispute each and every quote. And as I said, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to show that for every bible quote that is thrown out there there can be more then one possible interpretation.

 

[salmoneous]

You've met one now. Poking out your eye or chopping off a hand would be ways of preventing particular sins. It would indeed be better to find a way to prevent committing sin than to commit sin. Actually, to be honest, I don't know any Christians who would disagree with that.

And, yet, no Christian I know has ever chopped off their hand or poked out their eye.

As I suggested, Christians give lip service to believing everything in the Bible, or everything Jesus said. But they don't really believe it. NOTE: I'm not saying this is a bad thing. We all pick and choose and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with Christians who get upset with other Christians for picking and choosing, but don't realize they do it themselves.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

<shrug> It's all in interpretation. I read these quotes and there is nothing in them that makes me think he is saying he is God. Only that he was equal to God.

You are right it is in the interpretation and that is why you have to go to the original greek/hebrew for the translation. The proper translation for what was said was in essence by nature, (being totally from the very nature of) the same meaning that Isaac said he came from Abraham.

For the sake of the people who hate reading the Quotes, I'm not going to dispute each and every quote. And as I said, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to show that for every bible quote that is thrown out there there can be more then one possible interpretation.

It is important to get the proper meaning and interpretation. English lacks so much as opposed to Hebrew and Greek. But there are lots of Lexicons out there on line that you can check and get a more accurate interpretation.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

So, when you do the "Our Father, who art in heaven" routine does that mean you all think you are God ?

ford family

No, verse 23 says if we do not honor the Son then we do not honor God. We are not God nor are we equal to Him.

 

[Aidensmom]

And, yet, no Christian I know has ever chopped off their hand or poked out their eye.

As I suggested, Christians give lip service to believing everything in the Bible, or everything Jesus said. But they don't really believe it. NOTE: I'm not saying this is a bad thing. We all pick and choose and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with Christians who get upset with other Christians for picking and choosing, but don't realize they do it themselves.

I think you are missing my point.

Those scriptures don't say "Go cut off your hand if you sinned." They say that it is better to cut off your hand than to sin, which means that if your hand is what is causing you to sin, do something about it. I don't know about anyone else, but the existence of my HAND doesn't tempt me to do anything. However, there are things that do, and I should "cut" those out of my life to try to prevent sinning.

I am not "picking and choosing" here what I believe. I am using my God-given brain to go beyond concrete thinking.

 

[salmoneous]

Immanuel, means "God with us".

So does that mean Emmanuel Lewis is God too??? (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

I think you are missing my point.

Those scriptures don't say "Go cut off your hand if you sinned." They say that it is better to cut off your hand than to sin, which means that if your hand is what is causing you to sin, do something about it. I don't know about anyone else, but the existence of my HAND doesn't tempt me to do anything. However, there are things that do, and I should "cut" those out of my life to try to prevent sinning.

I am not "picking and choosing" here what I believe. I am using my God-given brain to go beyond concrete thinking.

Yes!!! If I lie, I need to get that out of my life, not literally cut out my tongue, I could continue to lie even if I had no tongue, by my expression, by writing it, etc. If I steal; cutting off my hand may hinder my ability to steal some things, but it doesn't change me. I could still pick up $$ with my toes or mouth or something! The change needs to come from within. That is why we needed a Savior. The power to change was not ours!

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

So does that mean Emmanuel Lewis is God too??? (sorry, couldn't resist)

That is funny!!!

 

[Mugg Mann]

So does that mean Emmanuel Lewis is God too??? (sorry, couldn't resist)

And when I stopped laughing, I started to think about, and yanno, there's a lot to that theory.......

 

[Saxsoon]

So, when you do the "Our Father, who art in heaven" routine does that mean you all think you are God ?

ford family

The Bible says that Jesus was the only BEGOTTEN Son of God. God only begets God, as man only begets man. God created us, like a man creates a statue. Jesus came to turn the statue (us) into man (pure to stand before God).

A better way of putting it is Pinocchio and Gepetto. Pinnochio called Gepetto father, but not in the same sense that we put it. Gepetto did not beget him.

 

[salmoneous]

I am not "picking and choosing" here what I believe. I am using my God-given brain to go beyond concrete thinking.

I think the words on the paper are pretty clear - if cutting off body parts will prevent you from sinning, you should do so. Speaking as a guy, I can say without question that plucking out my eyes would cut down on my sinning (going by the lust in heart = adultery rule).

And yet, I'm 100% on your side here. You've used your God given brain to come to the conclusion that cutting off body parts in not what God wants us to do.

To me, that's exactly the task that has been laid out for us. We haven't been given a clear, cut-and-dried rulebook. We are supposed to use our brains and try and understand what we should and shouldn't to; what we should and shouldn't believe.

But as a result, we aren't all going to find the same answers. And since God set the whole thing up this way, I don't think we are all supposed to find the same answers. Which is why I find it sad when one group of Christians tells another that they aren't "real" Christians because they have come to a different answer.

 

[KikiFan]

It is important to get the proper meaning and interpretation. English lacks so much as opposed to Hebrew and Greek. But there are lots of Lexicons out there on line that you can check and get a more accurate interpretation.

All I'm trying to do is explain my point of view and where it comes from. And all you're trying to do is prove that you're right and I'm wrong. Fine if that's what floats you're boat. But as long as I am a moral and decent person why does it matter to you the details of what I believe? It's that constant need of some Christians to prove that they are right and everyone else is wrong that drives more people away from Christianity then anything else.

And for the record, I am familiar with the translations and the inconsistencies of translations. I've attended seminars and read books by scholars of the Aramaic/ Hebrew customs and I'm familiar with the effects of cultural, idiomatic differences. And yes I'm still comfortable in what I believe.

But I find it ironic that when someone points out an alternative POV to scripture, your primary defense is that the text is "mistranslated" Sort of a shifting sands defense isn't it? Either the Bible is perfect or it's tainted by human flaws. Which is it? Can't be both.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

All I'm trying to do is explain my point of view and where it comes from. And all you're trying to do is prove that you're right and I'm wrong. Fine if that's what floats you're boat. But as long as I am a moral and decent person why does it matter to you the details of what I believe? It's that constant need of some Christians to prove that they are right and everyone else is wrong that drives more people away from Christianity then anything else.

And for the record, I am familiar with the translations and the inconsistencies of translations. I've attended seminars and read book by scholars of the Aramaic/ Hebrew customs and I'm familiar with the effects of cultural, idiomatic differences. And yes I'm still comfortable in what I believe.

But I find it ironic that when someone points out an alternative POV to scripture, your primary defense is that the text is "mistranslated" Sort of a shifting sands defense isn't it? Either the Bible is perfect or it's tainted by human flaws. Which is it? Can't be both.

I am not trying to push my beliefs on you, all I was trying to do was to allow everyone to search for themselves, what the true translation was. Sorry you took it so defensively.