What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[lovethattink]

Very well said! I believe God created us to be his children and not his pets. I believe he hears and answers all prayer.

It's interesting to note that when God created us he did it in two ways,

1. He created (bara-meaning to create something out of nothing). created us in his own image and gave us a soul. (our soul that reflects him)
2. He created (yatsar-to create from something already there) using dust, in a sense, he got his hands dirty making us, but the point being he did it from something already there.

Seems to me he could have said, let there be man, and been done with it, but instead He put more effort into it.

 

[orljustin]

Im sorry to hear about you mother. I too lost my mom. I was 15 yrs old at the time and it was hard but I have seen such wonderful things come of it. At the time my sister was a drug addict,flunkingschool, and altogether on the worng track and this death woke her up so to speak. she is now in her late twenties, married , serves in our church, and a wonderful mother to a beautiful 2 yr old. I dont know where she would be today had it not been for that tradegy in our lives. Everything happens for a purpose. we might not see it now but I know everything happens for a reason. God has a plan for all of us as individuals and collectively as a whole. One day in heaven I beleive we are gonna go "oh so thats why that had to happen". Bottom line my children dont always understand everything I do and sometimes they thing Im being just plain cruel in my decisions but I am wiser than them. I see the big picture where they dont sometimes and I make decisions based on what is best for them even we they dont realize it is all for their good.

Maybe your sister would be in an even better place. You look back and rationalize that what happened was the "right thing to happen", even though you have no way of knowing that. That could have been the wrong thing to happen.

What if you get to heaven, and you ask "Why did that happen", and god says "oh, I was just in a pissy mood that day, so I wreaked some havoc." Then what are you going to do? You can always see interconnected events and say "Oh, that's why that had to happen". But it didn't "have" to happen at all if something happened differently. You just don't know.

 

[lovethattink]

I believe that God is just and fair. I have only my faith in the Word of the Bible, but if I don't cling to that, then I have no hope.

 

[cardaway]

What if you get to heaven, and you ask "Why did that happen", and god says "oh, I was just in a pissy mood that day, so I wreaked some havoc." Then what are you going to do? You can always see interconnected events and say "Oh, that's why that had to happen". But it didn't "have" to happen at all if something happened differently. You just don't know.

IMO it all boils down to the fact that since they are sure to not put any weight behind their belief in prayer, it always comes to an acceptable conclusion.

It's like going to thetrack and puting down money on every horse in the race so you'll always "win".

 

[orljustin]

IMO it all boils down to the fact that since they are sure to not put any weight behind their belief in prayer, it always comes to an acceptable conclusion.

It's like going to thetrack and puting down money on every horse in the race so you'll always "win".

That's a good metaphor. If you pray, and someone lives, it's because you prayed. If you pray and someone dies, it's because god wanted it that way, and you aren't all-knowing enough to know what's good for you. And looking back, you can rationalize the events that followed as proving you didn't know what was good for you.

 

[jimmiej]

That's a good metaphor. If you pray, and someone lives, it's because you prayed. If you pray and someone dies, it's because god wanted it that way, and you aren't all-knowing enough to know what's good for you. And looking back, you can rationalize the events that followed as proving you didn't know what was good for you.

I've asked this question several times (on other threads) & never gotten a straight answer. Do you ALWAYS say yes to your children's requests?

 

[lovethattink]

As I said before, God listens to our prayers AND answers them. Even when the answers are not what we want.

 

[jamimb]

That's a good metaphor.

If you pray, and someone lives, it's because you prayed. If you pray and someone dies, it's because god wanted it that way, and you aren't all-knowing enough to know what's good for you. And looking back, you can rationalize the events that followed as proving you didn't know what was good for you.

you're finally making some sense

 

[jamimb]

::

]I've asked this question several times (on other threads) & never gotten a straight answer. Do you ALWAYS say yes to your children's requests?

[/QUOTE]

i'll answer your question of couse we don't. We would be bad parents if we did. For example my kids wouldn't have a tooth in their heads. (cavities and all

 

[cardaway]

That's a good metaphor. If you pray, and someone lives, it's because you prayed. If you pray and someone dies, it's because god wanted it that way, and you aren't all-knowing enough to know what's good for you. And looking back, you can rationalize the events that followed as proving you didn't know what was good for you.

Exactly. They have created a scenario that never has to backed up.

Somebody who goes to the track and bets on every horse in every race can say they "win" 100% of the time, but upon futher analysis, they win nothing since they never actually risked anything. Their prayers are always answered.

 

[Buckalew11]

That's a good metaphor. If you pray, and someone lives, it's because you prayed. If you pray and someone dies, it's because god wanted it that way, and you aren't all-knowing enough to know what's good for you. And looking back, you can rationalize the events that followed as proving you didn't know what was good for you.

No, if you pray and someone lives, then it was God's will for them to live. Obviously, it wasn't their time to go and there is still work for them to do here.

Prayer isn't about having a wish list fulfilled. Prayer is about talking with God and asking for help in accpeting His will that shall be done.

Y'all are so off base on what prayer even is.
If you think Christians (and some non-Christians) sit around and pray for certain things to happen for them or for certain things to come to them, then your idea of prayer is askewed.

 

[Groucho]

The coincidence is too great to end up at just the right hospital at just the right time with just the right surgeon, when he was just hours before diagnosed as having flu!

I'm very glad that things worked out OK with your father, and I'm glad to you're able to talk about this.

But if you start talking about coincidences, you need to put that into prospective - there are thousands or hundreds of thousands of people in similar situations every year, and simple odds dictate that some of them will have everything work out just right. Fortunately, your Dad was one of them.

Chances are that the majority of patients in critical condition are desperately prayed for by their friends and family... yet so many don't make it. Usually the key ingredients are competent doctors, a strong will to live, and a little bit of luck doesn't hurt either. Prayer can comfort the person praying (especially by making them feel like they're doing something when they feel powerless) but it won't change what's going to happen in the other room.

Put it this way: let's say that everything happened exactly as it did, but that you did NOT pray. Do you really, truly think that he might not have made it?

 

[jamimb]

No, if you pray and someone lives, then it was God's will for them to live. Obviously, it wasn't their time to go and there is still work for them to do here.

Prayer isn't about having a wish list fulfilled. Prayer is about talking with God and asking for help in accpeting His will that shall be done.

Y'all are so off base on what prayer even is.
If you think Christians (and some non-Christians) sit around and pray for certain things to happen for them or for certain things to come to them, then your idea of prayer is askewed.

Very well said. God is not a magic genie in a lamp. Ther is absolutely nothing wrong with making your request known to him but it is not the purpose of prayer. Prayer is like picking up the phone and calling someone it is simply a means of communicating with God when you have a relationship with him. What kind of a relationship could you have with someone without communication.

 

[phillybeth]

If you think Christians (and some non-Christians) sit around and pray for certain things to happen for them or for certain things to come to them, then your idea of prayer is askewed.

Can you please tell that to the Christians then? Too many of them pray for things, not for strength. Nice weather, football games, low gas prices- heck, Catholics even have a saint who finds lost things!

 

[Groucho]

No, if you pray and someone lives, then it was God's will for them to live. Obviously, it wasn't their time to go and there is still work for them to do here.

Prayer isn't about having a wish list fulfilled. Prayer is about talking with God and asking for help in accpeting His will that shall be done.

Tell that to the people praying for sick people to get well, to hit the lottery, or to reconcile with their philandering husband.

The whole "we don't know his plan" is really a cop-out. Was the Vietnam War his plan? Is it his plan for Iraq to be on the verge of civil war? What about genocide in Darfur? What about rampant worlwide poverty? What about corrupt politicians? What about the Mayans dying out? What about 9/11? What about rape, murder, poisonous spinach, tainted Tylonel, Enron, pornography, legal abortion, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, hurricanes, tsunamis, nuclear weapons, drunk drivers, the "God hates f*gs" family, child-molesting priests, big-name evangelists who turn out to be gay, drug addicts, wh*re-mongerers, or all of the above? What about AIDS? What about heroin? What about Mel "Passion of the Christ" Gibson revealing himself to be a drunk anti-Semite? What about the author of a pro-prayer scientific study turning out to be a criminal? What about the rise of the USA, a country specifically founded to NOT promote religion?

Etc, etc, etc. That's some plan. Oh, that's right - he "works in mysterious ways" (in other words, we're too dumb and child-like to understand.)

I myself have found my life going much better as I've become more of a skeptic, both in measurable ways (good job, lots of nice things going my way) and emotional ones (have a wonderful wife and a terrific child) - I don't credit my chance in religious outlook at have made a change, but it sure hasn't hurt. Can that help offset those who talk about how their life has improved after getting into the god of their choice?

 

[orljustin]

Prayer is like picking up the phone and calling someone it is simply a means of communicating with God when you have a relationship with him. What kind of a relationship could you have with someone without communication.

Ummm, communication sort of requires someone that communicates back with you.

 

[jamimb]

Tell

that to the people praying for sick people to get well, to hit the lottery, or to reconcile with their philandering husband.

The whole "we don't know his plan" is really a cop-out. Was the Vietnam War his plan? Is it his plan for Iraq to be on the verge of civil war? What about genocide in Darfur? What about rampant worlwide poverty? What about corrupt politicians? What about the Mayans dying out? What about 9/11? What about rape, murder, poisonous spinach, tainted Tylonel, Enron, pornography, legal abortion, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, hurricanes, tsunamis, nuclear weapons, drunk drivers, the "God hates f*gs" family, child-molesting priests, big-name evangelists who turn out to be gay, drug addicts, wh*re-mongerers, or all of the above? What about AIDS? What about heroin? What about Mel "Passion of the Christ" Gibson revealing himself to be a drunk anti-Semite? What about the author of a pro-prayer scientific study turning out to be a criminal? What about the rise of the USA, a country specifically founded to NOT promote religion?

Etc, etc, etc. That's some plan. Oh, that's right - he "works in mysterious ways" (in other words, we're too dumb and child-like to understand.)

I myself have found my life going much better as I've become more of a skeptic, both in measurable ways (good job, lots of nice things going my way) and emotional ones (have a wonderful wife and a terrific child) - I don't credit my chance in religious outlook at have made a change, but it sure hasn't hurt. Can that help offset those who talk about how their life has improved after getting into the god of their choice?

My advice to you is enjoy that good job and wife and child now beacuse its all you got. I have this life and the promise of joy everlasting. Which by the way I also have a wonderful spouse and children. are you trying to say that only no-believers have good lives? It is my experince that Christians lives are actually better and they are not measured by things which can be taken away. I dont want this to ever happen to you but you can always loose your job or your wife and child could die but the joy I have in my relationship with God and my home in heaven can never be taken from me.

 

[jamimb]

Ummm, communication sort of requires someone that communicates back with you.

I Knew that was gonna come up and almost addressed it in my original post. I am not a quack and cannot claim to have ever heard the audible voice of God. But I do hear from him in prayer, through circumstances, and in his Word. If you stop long enough and seek it you could hear it too.

 

[cardaway]

Ummm, communication sort of requires someone that communicates back with you.

Some will say they hear him, but then lock up somebody else because he says he hears him.

 

[orljustin]

I Knew that was gonna come up and almost addressed it in my original post. I am not a quack and cannot claim to have ever heard the audible voice of God. But I do hear from him in prayer, through circumstances, and in his Word. If you stop long enough and seek it you could hear it too.

I assume those are the circumstances that can either go your way, or go some different way, but either one works because god is smarter than you?