What would you do if...

[Colleen27]

Because some of us have no intention of allowing a 15 year old to make life changing decisions for us or for the rest of the family.

If she screws up, there are other options besides expecting me to raise her kid. What we're teaching her is that she cannot expect her poor choices to dictate the living conditions and financial situation for the other family members.

Exactly. I'm not as hard-line as some - I would very strongly encourage abortion with adoption as a distant second best, but I wouldn't force the issue under threat of homelessness or anything quite that extreme - but I also would not readily accept my young teen effectively trapping me into parenting a child that I did not conceive and do not want. I've got 15 years in on this parenting thing with 15 more to go before my last reaches adulthood, and that's enough for me. We don't have the time, the money, the space, or the energy for another baby, not now and certainly not 5-10 years from now when our girls are teens.

 

[sbell111]

And they should not be stuck with a kid that they did not have but now because of an irresponsible child are now forced to raised?

You act as if you would be on the hook for 18 more years. In reality, it would simply be more work (or different work, depending on how you looked at it and managed it) for a few years.

It should be noted that you hypothetically raised that 'irresponsible child'. Her mistakes are your mistakes. Welcome to Parenthood 101.

 

[sbell111]

No she won't. CPS will call you to court and you will appear before a judge. Tell them exactly the situation and when girl turns 18 have her become a ward of the state. She can apply for state aid, apply for welfare and can get public housing.

like I said, call me an evil mother but you made the decision to have a kid, better figure out how to raise that kid.

Once again it's very easy to say I'm not having an abortion when you're happily not paying for a thing.
I am also not just a "throw your kid out" but a decision like this does not only effect the young lady. It's royally screwing up every body who is living in that house life.

Your post is all over the place. I can't figure out what your point or position is and how it ties into my post.

 

[luvsJack]

The hard truth is, though, that it isn't his life that will be ruined. He will dictate the terms of his involvement with the child, and if he so chooses he can walk away with at most a financial cost. He won't be the one who is kicked out/faces pressure to drop out of school. He isn't the one who will have to quit extracurriculars or give up dreams of a traditional college experience. He isn't the one who will need babysitters to date or hang out with friends. He's not the one who will lose friends or have a hard time finding a suitable mate when he is ready to marry because of his "baggage". Not only does the entire physical toll of pregnancy and birth rest with the mother, the vast majority of the social and emotional toll does as well. It is only fitting that the mother should have the final word on whether or not to assume that responsibility.

If he is in on the front end of the decision though, the girl will KNOW what she is getting into with him. If he doesn't want to take responsibility then like, FireDancer says, he gives up his right to the child or the right to choose what happens as far as abortion or adoption. IMHO, we can't have it both ways. We can't say to these guys "its your responsibility to take care of this child by providing" but oh, by the way, you get no choice as to whether the pregnancy is aborted or the child is given up for adoption or she keeps the child. And so, we have so many that do walk away.

I know that all males are not going to step up and take care his child; but then neither are all females. He should at least be given the opportunity to do so.

My younger son was 25 before his first child came along, so not a teen-ager, but an unplanned pregnancy. And when she found out they were not even dating. Fortunately, she came to him and let him know that she was pregnant. THEY decided what would happen. At the time, they decided to keep the baby and they would raise it together but not as a couple. Things changed and they are married now, but because she came to him in the first place, he had the opportunity to let her know he would step up and take care of his child. I thank the heavens above that she gave him that choice.

You mention being pressured to drop out of school, only the parent can do that. The school system can NOT do that, its against the law. Nor can they make her give up extra curricular activities unless it is something that is dangerous for the baby. For a young man that does step up to take care of his child, then yes he will have to give up as much as she does for the child. Hard to play baseball, go to school and keep a job to pay for diapers, clothes, food, etc.

Many, many, many males will, in fact, have the same emotional baggage as the girl when it comes to the pregnancy being aborted or their child being given up for adoption.

I don't think we give enough credit to young men and their feelings toward their own child.

 

[eliza61]

Both of these posts are rather shocking. I realize it's your opinion but I was still surprised to read the vehemance. I understand that a 15 year old getting pregnant is a mistake but why turn against them in such a crisis? If it were my daughter, I'd be very disappointed but I would do all in my power to help her and my future grandbaby. People make mistakes all the time but she's only 15 and this is a life changing event for her. I don't see how turning your back on her, tossing her over to the state or refusing to help is in any way helping the situation. Talk about kicking someone while they're down, man. What you're teaching her is that if she screws up, she can't count on her family for help or support.

I guess probably because every situation like this that I've seen the Grandparents are the one's who suffered.

I've seen aquitances (sp) devestated by it. We're not taking about a screw up. A screw up is when you wreck the car. We are talking about a major life changing event.
I wish the cases I saw where like on TV where girl and guy get married and both go one to graduate for college and girl is sunshiney pretty and boy is star athelete but that is not the reality I see.

The reality I see:

Girl barely finishes high school.
Father of the baby, is no where to be found 2 years after birth.
Girl is in a dead end, minimum wage job so the chance of her moving out EVER is slim to none.
Now the girl is 18 with an attitude because she has no money, no job and a baby living with her parents.
Grandparents,my acquitances look depressed all the time because they have come to the realization that the dream of retirement they had is effectively done the drain. I talk to the husband and he so darn depressed that all he can think of is being 75 with a freakin 18 year old teenager in his house.


I'm not saying I would not help as much as I could but no sorry this would not and will not be me, and it would not have been my parents either. I had birth control stuck in every limb and body part in college because I knew, no way in heck was I even remotely getting pregnant, and there wasn't a man even thinking of doing the "wacky, wolly" dance with me without protection.

Now I'm a bit older so we didn't have much teen pregnancy in my day and luckily my sons are now in college. my youngest will be in September and he knows full well, what we expect if he comes home saying "I got my girlfriend" pregnant. because the first thing out of our mouths will be "How do you intend to support it?" and "where will you be living".

Flame away.

 

[Elinor Dashwood]

Because some of us have no intention of allowing a 15 year old to make life changing decisions for us or for the rest of the family.

If she screws up, there are other options besides expecting me to raise her kid. What we're teaching her is that she cannot expect her poor choices to dictate the living conditions and financial situation for the other family members.

I understand that the situation was out of the parent's control. But what is your solution then? Turn her and the baby out of the house to live on the streets?

Yes, she made a very poor choice and yes it does have consequences. But what I'm flabbergasted with is how callous some of you are. This is your daughter, someone you love who made a poor decision. And your response is what? Punish her apparently? She will have to deal with having a baby by taking care of it. I'm not advocating she just pop the kid out and hand her over to her parents while she goes back to her carefree teenager life. What I am advocating is using this to teach her responsibility but not by throwing her out. What on earth is she supposed to do on the streets? Take herself and your grandbaby to the homeless shelter? Start a life of prostitution to provide for them? I just can't imagine.

 

[eliza61]

Your post is all over the place. I can't figure out what your point or position is and how it ties into my post.

Sorry.

 

[sbell111]

If she screws up, there are other options besides expecting me to raise her kid. What we're teaching her is that she cannot expect her poor choices to dictate the living conditions and financial situation for the other family members.

You're not the first person to suggest that the options are that the daughter terminate the pregnancy, give the child up for adoption, or the grandparent raises that child.

The daughter remaining in the home with reasonable assistance from family does not mean that she isn't 'raising the child' nor does it put the grandparent in the position of raising it. It doesn't even require long-term involvement of the grandparent.

 

[Colleen27]

Would you have given the teen a pass on doing the dishes or taking out the trash or any other assigned chore before she got pregnant?

Not me. I'd either wake up the teen so she could care for the baby or simply deal with the baby. I'm not seeing the big deal.

Of course you can 'set limits' on those things. You handle them exactly as you would handle her responsibilities before she got pregnant.

No, my kids don't get pass on neglected chores. But they do still forget or things sometimes get done later than they should or half-heartedly because someone is in a rush, but rather than fixing the situation myself I have them rectify it. My son is 14 and a pretty good kid, but if I had a dollar for every time I had to remind him to do one thing or another I'd own enough DVC points to move to WDW full-time. That's typical of that age, and a very good reason young teens parenting is a terrible idea.

With a baby in the house there are many more tasks that can't be easily put off; I'm not going to accept a bathroom that smells of dirty diapers while waiting for my child to get home from school to take out the trash, or buy more bottles when the irresponsible teen (who is too young to have a job, remember) can't get the one she ignored clean. And sure, I would wake my teen when the baby wakes me but that means my sleep is still being interrupted every night; that's not something I would readily accept, not for myself, not for DH, and not for the other kids in the house who didn't make an epic mistake and shouldn't have to struggle with sleep deprivation at school/activities/work.

 

[mhsjax]

You act as if you would be on the hook for 18 more years. In reality, it would simply be more work (or different work, depending on how you looked at it and managed it) for a few years.

It should be noted that you hypothetically raised that 'irresponsible child'. Her mistakes are your mistakes. Welcome to Parenthood 101.

Thank you. And for anyone kicking their child out with a baby, you are continuing the problem of prostitution and drugs and all sorts of illegal activity because they have to do what they need to , to survive.

And for the girl that got pregnant by a drug pusher, or whatever evil the man was, the parent failed the child, long before the child failed the parent.

IMHO opinion, anyone that would kick their pregnant child out has no business being a mother in the first place. If you don't want to raise your grandchild for 18 years then grow a back bone, the one that you should have had from the beginning, and don't. Establish rules so your child can finish school and support herself and the baby.

 

[luvsJack]

I couldn't disagree with this more.

In your scenario, a man can simply spread his seed with wild abandon and have no obligations. "You're pregnant? Get an abortion, <expletive deleted>."

So, its more fair for the girl to be able to say "hey, I having this baby and you have to cough up the child support" and he just gets to pay?

Sure, he can do things to prevent it, but so can she.

Unless she was raped, the decision to have unprotected sex is a decision they made together. So, he should have at least the opportunity to have a voice in the decision on what to do with the outcome of the first decision.

I don't mean that he should be able to say "I want her to have the baby" and then walk away. I just mean that he and his parents should at least be consulted.

 

[eliza61]

Thank you. And for anyone kicking their child out with a baby, you are continuing the problem of restitution and rugs and all sorts of illegal activity because they have to do what they need to , to survive.

And for the girl that got pregnant by a drug pusher, or whatever evil the man was, the parent failed the child, long before the child failed the parent.

then maybe they will take that into account BEFORE having a kid. Maybe if they start learning exactly what they have to do to keep a child, and we stop sugar coating it, pretending likes it's an episode of teen mom and coming to their rescue, they'll think long and hard if they want to have a kid in their teens.

 

[mhsjax]

then maybe they will take that into account BEFORE having a kid. Maybe if they start learning exactly what they have to do to keep a child, and we stop sugar coating it, pretending likes it's an episode of teen mom and coming to their rescue, they'll think long and hard if they want to have a kid in their teens.

I guess you have never made a mistake. I guess everyone here never had sex before they were married or could afford and raise a child. If this is you then fine I will listen, but I highly doubt it pertains to many of us. and There but by the grace of God go I. Anyone can get pregnant when having sex, the only way is to NOT have it, but since most people think that is just a silly thing to talk about then we have to deal with the consequences. BIRHT CONTROL FAILS PERIOD.

WE need to stop sugar coating lots of things, to start, birth control, it isn't fool proof yet the kids are taught to put on a condom and everything will be rosy. WRONG.

 

[eliza61]

So, its more fair for the girl to be able to say "hey, I having this baby and you have to cough up the child support" and he just gets to pay?

Sure, he can do things to prevent it, but so can she.

Unless she was raped, the decision to have unprotected sex is a decision they made together. So, he should have at least the opportunity to have a voice in the decision on what to do with the outcome of the first decision.

I don't mean that he should be able to say "I want her to have the baby" and then walk away. I just mean that he and his parents should at least be consulted.

what's so ironic LJ is that we have an epidemic of "fatherless" children now. that's exactly what men are saying today. I was watching the NBA draft last night and darn near every player had the same song and dance. Heck Terril Owen was just on Dr. Phil last month, what 7 kids all different baby mama drama. not taking care of a single one of them, hasn't seen most of them in years AND he's a grown man.

Raised by a single mom, hasn't seen dad in years.

So these guys are walking away without so much as a see you later. I'm a minority and it's a huge problem in my community. Young girl gets pregnant, within 2 years young girl and baby are now the problem of the mom, who herself is a good chance of being a single mom.

 

[sbell111]

No, my kids don't get pass on neglected chores. But they do still forget or things sometimes get done later than they should or half-heartedly because someone is in a rush, but rather than fixing the situation myself I have them rectify it. My son is 14 and a pretty good kid, but if I had a dollar for every time I had to remind him to do one thing or another I'd own enough DVC points to move to WDW full-time. That's typical of that age, and a very good reason young teens parenting is a terrible idea.

With a baby in the house there are many more tasks that can't be easily put off; I'm not going to accept a bathroom that smells of dirty diapers while waiting for my child to get home from school to take out the trash, or buy more bottles when the irresponsible teen (who is too young to have a job, remember) can't get the one she ignored clean. And sure, I would wake my teen when the baby wakes me but that means my sleep is still being interrupted every night; that's not something I would readily accept, not for myself, not for DH, and not for the other kids in the house who didn't make an epic mistake and shouldn't have to struggle with sleep deprivation at school/activities/work.

1. Diaper genie
2. Playtex drop-Ins with extra nipples
3. Get over the occasional loss of sleep. You have multiple kids living in the home. I have no doubt that your sleep cycle is occasionally interrupted. Besides, who's to say that the baby is going to screw with your sleep much at all? With our daughter, she went through a few months where she would wake up for a bottle in the middle of the night. This interrupts one of our sleep for about twenty minutes. Our son never went through this. He slept through the night pretty much right off the bat. Sure, she occasionally has a bad dream and flips out and he sometimes calls out for a few seconds before falling right back into snoresville, but it's not a big deal. You act as if a baby in the house means that no one in teh neighborhood will ever sleep again.

 

[eliza61]

I guess you have never made a mistake. I guess everyone here never had sex before they were married or could afford and raise a child. If this is you then fine I will listen, but I highly doubt it pertains to many of us. and There but by the grace of God go I. Anyone can get pregnant when having sex, the only way is to NOT have it, but since most people think that is just a silly thing to talk about then we have to deal with the consequences. BIRHT CONTROL FAILS PERIOD.

WE need to stop sugar coating lots of things, to start, birth control, it isn't fool proof yet the kids are taught to put on a condom and everything will be rosy. WRONG.

Yep, I had prematrial sex. I also had enough birth control on me to make sure I never got pregnant ( I mean, I was on the pill, plus used a diaprahm) and I made sure that any man who remotely got next to me had on slip covers and I'm decidely prochoice so If I had gotten pregnant, I would have evaluated my situation and decided whether or not to keep said child. In college definitely NOT.

And yes, when my dh and I decided to have kids (5 years after we got married) it was because we were ready to and had our house and although we had no idea how much a kid would cost, we both had good paying jobs.

I have taught my sons that birth control is not fool proof and that not every girl will tell them the truth when it comes to birth control and we've also told them what they can expect if they get a girl pregnant. Luckily they grew up in the inner city so they were exposed to girls getting pregnant young, we taught them about prematerial sex since and bc since they were young. They have seen with their own eyes the rough lives MOST (not all) of these girls are living. It's funny because lots of folks thought we were ridiculously strick by not letting them date until jr/sr year.

Now my oldest is an asperger kid so we have a bit more control over his life even as he is getting older. emotional issues are a bit different with him.

Like I said, I don't know many folks who were in this scenerio but the few I do know, not one single solitary one ended up being any thing but a total disaster. from the nanosecond the teen had the child until now. I would love it to end like they do on ABC family but that hasn't happen yet.

 

[jrmasm]

Exactly. I'm not as hard-line as some - I would very strongly encourage abortion with adoption as a distant second best, but I wouldn't force the issue under threat of homelessness or anything quite that extreme - but I also would not readily accept my young teen effectively trapping me into parenting a child that I did not conceive and do not want. I've got 15 years in on this parenting thing with 15 more to go before my last reaches adulthood, and that's enough for me. We don't have the time, the money, the space, or the energy for another baby, not now and certainly not 5-10 years from now when our girls are teens.

I agree 100%.

 

[Colleen27]

I understand that the situation was out of the parent's control. But what is your solution then? Turn her and the baby out of the house to live on the streets?

Yes, she made a very poor choice and yes it does have consequences. But what I'm flabbergasted with is how callous some of you are. This is your daughter, someone you love who made a poor decision. And your response is what? Punish her apparently? She will have to deal with having a baby by taking care of it. I'm not advocating she just pop the kid out and hand her over to her parents while she goes back to her carefree teenager life. What I am advocating is using this to teach her responsibility but not by throwing her out. What on earth is she supposed to do on the streets? Take herself and your grandbaby to the homeless shelter? Start a life of prostitution to provide for them? I just can't imagine.

I think the difference here is the assumption that not being allowed to/supported in parenting is a punishment. In my mind it isn't. I would push my teen to terminate the pregnancy or give up the baby for her own sake, looking at the situation with the perspective of age and maturity and seeing things that an immature, hormonal/emotional teen likely isn't seeing or is closing her eyes to.

Look, I had my oldest when I was 18. I know all about the ups and downs and I made it work for me. But it is a very lonely road and not one I want my girls walking. I don't want them to know what it is like to have long-time friends no longer allowed to hang out with you because you're a bad influence, to have guys completely lose interest when they find out you have a child (or worse, meet someone who is still interested only to have his parents threaten to pull college funding if he continues the relationship), to be the odd one out at every social situation involving parents/children because you're a decade younger than anyone else there, to have teachers and doctors dismiss your concerns about your child's development because they assume you're too young to know what you're talking about, etc. The challenges don't end when you get a good job or move out - I still deal with professionals with dismissive attitudes, and I'm still too young to relate to other parents in PTA/sports booster settings. No matter how old you get people do the math in their heads and form opinions. And I had advantages that no 15yo has - I found out I was pregnant during my last week of high school, had already moved out of my mother's house into my first crappy apartment, and was working for a low but livable wage. Adding the educational, financial, and social issues that come from being so much younger into the mix paints a very bleak picture and one that I would do just about anything in my power to prevent either of my girls from experiencing.

 

[sbell111]

So, its more fair for the girl to be able to say "hey, I having this baby and you have to cough up the child support" and he just gets to pay?

As an adult male, my answer to that question is a resounding YES.

Sure, he can do things to prevent it, but so can she.

Any male having sex should understand that sex leads to babies. Further, he should go into it with the knowledge that the resulting baby might be kept and that he would have significant obligations to that baby.

Unless she was raped, the decision to have unprotected sex is a decision they made together. So, he should have at least the opportunity to have a voice in the decision on what to do with the outcome of the first decision.

I don't mean that he should be able to say "I want her to have the baby" and then walk away. I just mean that he and his parents should at least be consulted.

I don't believe that anyone in this thread is suggesting that the father shouldn't be able to weigh in on the issue. He just doesn't get to make the decision. It's kind of like being married...

 

[alex9179]

I don't think either forcing an abortion or forcing a birth is the way to handle it.

In the scenario where the father wants an abortion and mother does not he should be able to sign away his parental rights. He gets no contact but also shares no financial burden.

In the opposite scenario there should be a way for the father (and his insurance) to incur the cost of the pregnancy and delivery and then the mother has the same option of signing away her parental rights, just like the father did. This of course would be a choice and not a mandate and in this scenario if the mother ultimately chose abortion than that is what it will be. It does open up another option in which basically you are opting for adoption by the father. I don't see anything wrong with offering more choices.

The courts will not terminate rights based on the above scenario. There must be another individual who is ready to step in (adopt) who will be responsible for the child's support.

There have even been cases of the court requiring the parent, whose had their rights terminated, to pay child support when it's been a case of abuse/neglect until the child is adopted.

To do as you suggest sets a dangerous precedent, allowing parents who want to get out of paying child support to be allowed to terminate their rights and responsibilities. I don't know of any court that would grant this.