What will WDW "cut" next?

[lockedoutlogic]

It doesn't matter, quite frankly, in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't matter what they cut, or if they stop offering discounts, people will still go to Disney World. Period. We, (those of us here on the Dis), are a teeny, tiny, miniscule percentage of the people who go to WDW on a yearly basis. Even if we all at one time decided to raise our voices in protest over one concern in particular I doubt they would bat an eyelash in our direction, other than the obligatory e-mail and phone call to politely discuss our concerns.

Bottom line: Disney is a business. It always has been a business. They have huge operating costs and thousands of employees to pay. I'm sorry for anyone that feels personally offended by anything that has been cut, but honestly, do any of you who are boo-hooing and threatening to spend less or vacation elsewhere if X or Y is cut think that they seriously give a rats patootie if you come back or not? If you don't go, another family will fill your space.

It's a business. Their goal is to make a profit. If you see yourself as "special" or anything other than a step toward making a quarterly profit you are mistaken. It's just the way it is. I can't for the life of me figure out why people take things like Napkin-Gate and the cutting of an hour from EMH personally. It's not being done just to offend *you*. or reduce *your* experience.

sadly...you are 150% correct...but unfortunately it doesn't give the average joe much confidence in the future.

But again...its all true. and only withholding the money in your pocket from them - on a mass scale - will ever bring about a reversal of course.

i do get flustered when this is not realized though...as "magic" has nothing to do with anything that TWDC controls...nor really has it ever. Often here you see comments that try to indicate that...and i still can't wrap my brain around the slimmest of chances that ANY functioning brain believes it as such...right?

 

[DebbieB]

They cut and Pirate and Princess Party a few years ago. I would not be surprised if Night of Joy, MVMCP or something of the like is on the radar.

Pirate and Princess had low attendance, there wasn't anything to draw the locals plus it was closing MK early during peak times. If the other parties have low attendance they may go too but that doesn't seem to be happening and the price keeps going up. Plus they are held at off peak times.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

It doesn't matter, quite frankly, in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't matter what they cut, or if they stop offering discounts, people will still go to Disney World. Period. We, (those of us here on the Dis), are a teeny, tiny, miniscule percentage of the people who go to WDW on a yearly basis. Even if we all at one time decided to raise our voices in protest over one concern in particular I doubt they would bat an eyelash in our direction, other than the obligatory e-mail and phone call to politely discuss our concerns.

Bottom line: Disney is a business. It always has been a business. They have huge operating costs and thousands of employees to pay. I'm sorry for anyone that feels personally offended by anything that has been cut, but honestly, do any of you who are boo-hooing and threatening to spend less or vacation elsewhere if X or Y is cut think that they seriously give a rats patootie if you come back or not? If you don't go, another family will fill your space.

It's a business. Their goal is to make a profit. If you see yourself as "special" or anything other than a step toward making a quarterly profit you are mistaken. It's just the way it is. I can't for the life of me figure out why people take things like Napkin-Gate and the cutting of an hour from EMH personally. It's not being done just to offend *you*. or reduce *your* experience.

Have you read any Peter Drucker? I like to read his insights about business.

Yes, a business needs to make a profit, but profit maximization should NOT be its goal. A company's goal should be to create a customer. The customer is the foundation of a business, and it is what keeps a business in existence.

If profit maximization drives the company purpose, it can allow others with a different focus to win markets by providing greater value to the consumer. Profit maximization can cause organizational toxicity, just like oxygen toxicity can harm the body.

I believe that is what is happening at the Walt Disney Company right now. They have made profit maximization their goal. It has become more important to the Walt Disney Company than creating a customer, than maintaining customer loyalty.

For the moment, the company is okay. There are many foreign tourists eager to take the place of American tourists who may be turned off by the change in the Disney brand. But if Disney becomes too smug and greedy, it will not last. Even the foreign tourists will catch on to what is taking place.

 

[crostorfer]

Have you read any Peter Drucker? I like to read his insights about business.

Yes, a business needs to make a profit, but profit maximization should NOT be its goal. A company's goal should be to create a customer. The customer is the foundation of a business, and it is what keeps a business in existence.

If profit maximization drives the company purpose, it can allow others with a different focus to win markets by providing greater value to the consumer. Profit maximization can cause organizational toxicity, just like oxygen toxicity can harm the body.

I believe that is what is happening at the Walt Disney Company right now. They have made profit maximization their goal. It has become more important to the Walt Disney Company than creating a customer, than maintaining customer loyalty.

For the moment, the company is okay. There are many foreign tourists eager to take the place of American tourists who may be turned off by the change in the Disney brand. But if Disney becomes too smug and greedy, it will not last. Even the foreign tourists will catch on to what is taking place.

I don't disagree with you. The focus of any company should be the satisfaction of it's customers. However, we have to all realize that the overwhelming majority of guests who visit WDW DO leave satisfied.

Let me go back to what I referred to earlier when I mentioned that we Dis members are a teeny, tiny percentage of the annual guests and elaborate on that.

A lot of us here on the Dis are members of an elite club of people that get to go to WDW at least once a year. Some get to go multiple times. We are NOT the majority. Where as Disneyland's bread and butter is Southern California residents, WDW is a completely different ball game. The guests at the parks are dominated by first time, and possibly only time visitors. WDW is a vacation that some people save for years to take, and the average Joe and Jane can possibly only afford to go once in their lifetime. These are the kinds of people WDW caters to. It's their core audience, and they will continue to attract families like moths to flames with their flashy TV commercials and Travel Channel specials. Will these first time guests notice that the napkins have changed? Not only no, but heck no. The average first time traveler to WDW doesn't even know what a Fastpass is, let alone how to use it. I've had to explain to multiple people in ride queues why I am zipping past them in line before. They don't have any clue about EMH, let alone that they will be dropping an hour, other than what their travel agent or the CM on the phone has mentioned. They don't buy guide books, they don't come to the Dis. A huge portion of first time visitors just wing it, and they still feel the magic and have a great time. First time, or infrequent, visitors aren't going to notice the same things we do here, and they aren't going to care.

Just to show how little the average Joe knows about Orlando theme parks, look at the hundreds of people who showed up at DHS in 2010 expecting to find the WWoHP. There are still people who don't know that Disney and Universal are separate parks. I have to explain it to my friends all of the time, they all think it's connected. There are new people that will post here occasionally that still think so.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

I don't disagree with you. The focus of any company should be the satisfaction of it's customers. However, we have to all realize that the overwhelming majority of guests who visit WDW DO leave satisfied.

Let me go back to what I referred to earlier when I mentioned that we Dis members are a teeny, tiny percentage of the annual guests and elaborate on that.

A lot of us here on the Dis are members of an elite club of people that get to go to WDW at least once a year. Some get to go multiple times. We are NOT the majority. Where as Disneyland's bread and butter is Southern California residents, WDW is a completely different ball game. The guests at the parks are dominated by first time, and possibly only time visitors. WDW is a vacation that some people save for years to take, and the average Joe and Jane can possibly only afford to go once in their lifetime. These are the kinds of people WDW caters to. It's their core audience, and they will continue to attract families like moths to flames with their flashy TV commercials and Travel Channel specials. Will these first time guests notice that the napkins have changed? Not only no, but heck no. The average first time traveler to WDW doesn't even know what a Fastpass is, let alone how to use it. I've had to explain to multiple people in ride queues why I am zipping past them in line before. They don't have any clue about EMH, let alone that they will be dropping an hour, other than what their travel agent or the CM on the phone has mentioned. They don't buy guide books, they don't come to the Dis. A huge portion of first time visitors just wing it, and they still feel the magic and have a great time. First time, or infrequent, visitors aren't going to notice the same things we do here, and they aren't going to care.

Just to show how little the average Joe knows about Orlando theme parks, look at the hundreds of people who showed up at DHS in 2010 expecting to find the WWoHP. There are still people who don't know that Disney and Universal are separate parks. I have to explain it to my friends all of the time, they all think it's connected. There are new people that will post here occasionally that still think so.

You could be right. I haven't read any surveys.

You know what is funny, though. The one thing that has affected my perception about Disney parks more than anything else is a discussion that I had with one mom while waiting for a boat to go back to the Wilderness Lodge from the Magic Kingdom in August of 2010.

We were in for a long wait, because the monorail was down at the time, and many additional guests were wanting to use the boat system. And she asked me, "What do you see in this place?"

At first, I ran off a list of all the things that popped into my mind that I love about Disney. Then, she listed all the things that had gone wrong on her trip.

So I started talking about Disney's excellent customer service, and she said, "Really? Because I take spa vacations and for half the money I can find much nicer resorts and businesses who treat me much better."

I stopped talking to her not long after that. I really didn't know what more to say, so I just smiled and told her that perhaps my loyalty comes from years of childhood vacations at Disney, and she smiled back.

But that one conversation made me analyze things in a different way than any thread I have ever read on here.

So do the overwhelming majority of guests that visit Walt Disney World leave satisfied? I hope so!

Most of the people I know plan for one trip of a lifetime with their children. I do know one family that, like me, makes an annual pilgrimage to Walt Disney World. I will have to ask them if their loyalty comes from their recent experiences or childhood memories. That would be interesting to know.

My loyalty comes from both.

 

[Planogirl]

Great marketing efforts, Linda.

And that is some excellent marketing...

Sure the parks are "packed". Last figures I saw here were that attenance at Disney was up 1% over last year. Just because people are in the parks does not mean they are spending like they used to. Lower class of rooms or off site, shorter stays, CS instead of TS meals and fewer souveniers. We have annual passes and we stay at our timeshare. We'll be there two weeks but other than 3 TS meals at the parks we are not planning on spending like we used to.

Even if the figures were actually down, shorter stays would likely drive up profit. Just one more thing to consider.

I don't disagree with you. The focus of any company should be the satisfaction of it's customers. However, we have to all realize that the overwhelming majority of guests who visit WDW DO leave satisfied.

Let me go back to what I referred to earlier when I mentioned that we Dis members are a teeny, tiny percentage of the annual guests and elaborate on that.

A lot of us here on the Dis are members of an elite club of people that get to go to WDW at least once a year. Some get to go multiple times. We are NOT the majority. Where as Disneyland's bread and butter is Southern California residents, WDW is a completely different ball game. The guests at the parks are dominated by first time, and possibly only time visitors. WDW is a vacation that some people save for years to take, and the average Joe and Jane can possibly only afford to go once in their lifetime. These are the kinds of people WDW caters to. It's their core audience, and they will continue to attract families like moths to flames with their flashy TV commercials and Travel Channel specials. Will these first time guests notice that the napkins have changed? Not only no, but heck no. The average first time traveler to WDW doesn't even know what a Fastpass is, let alone how to use it. I've had to explain to multiple people in ride queues why I am zipping past them in line before. They don't have any clue about EMH, let alone that they will be dropping an hour, other than what their travel agent or the CM on the phone has mentioned. They don't buy guide books, they don't come to the Dis. A huge portion of first time visitors just wing it, and they still feel the magic and have a great time. First time, or infrequent, visitors aren't going to notice the same things we do here, and they aren't going to care.

Just to show how little the average Joe knows about Orlando theme parks, look at the hundreds of people who showed up at DHS in 2010 expecting to find the WWoHP. There are still people who don't know that Disney and Universal are separate parks. I have to explain it to my friends all of the time, they all think it's connected. There are new people that will post here occasionally that still think so.

How do we know that people are so satisfied? This is strictly anecdotal but I know people who have been and would rather not go again. They cite the high prices and crowds and the lack of thrills and the fakeness of it all and so on. Of course, others love the parks but how do we really know what the average visitor thinks of WDW particulary when compared to what they once thought?

I do agree that we are not typical here. However wouldn't the average rabid Disney fanatic be more likely to defend Disney at all costs? You see some of that but I personally see more and more criticism as time goes on.

 

[crostorfer]

And that is some excellent marketing...

How do we know that people are so satisfied? This is strictly anecdotal but I know people who have been and would rather not go again. They cite the high prices and crowds and the lack of thrills and the fakeness of it all and so on. Of course, others love the parks but how do we really know what the average visitor thinks of WDW particulary when compared to what they once thought?

I do agree that we are not typical here. However wouldn't the average rabid Disney fanatic be more likely to defend Disney at all costs? You see some of that but I personally see more and more criticism as time goes on.

Ok, that's fair. But say they go once and they love it, or they go once and they hate it, for the average citizen one Disney trip in their lifetime is the best they can do. Regardless of how they feel about it in the end, they've still spent their money there.

I love Disney. I love everything about being there, it's like no where else in the world. It fills my heart with joy to be on property, and we keep going again and again, (despite changing napkins and decreased monorail hours), because we enjoy it. I am also a realist and see that even Disney has a bottom line.

vicki_c said at the beginning of this thread that there hasn't been one change they've made that has negatively affected her. I agree with her. We tend to make mountains out of molehills.

 

[maxiesmom]

I believe that is what is happening at the Walt Disney Company right now. They have made profit maximization their goal. It has become more important to the Walt Disney Company than creating a customer, than maintaining customer loyalty.

I don't agree. I don't think adding queen beds and fridges to existing resorts is about maximizing profits. Especially when they used to rent the fridges out for a tidy sum. It is about making their guests happier. Add to that having free wi fi when they used to charge guests to go on line. All of those things help create customers. Much more than having printing on napkins.

I'm sure if I asked most young people if they would rather have wi-fi or fancy napkins, they would say wi-fi. And those are the Disney consumers of the not so distant future.

 

[larryz]

It is about making their guests happier. Add to that having free wi fi when they used to charge guests to go on line. All of those things help create customers. Much more than having printing on napkins.

As much as I'd like to agree with that statement, I believe they're finally bowing to their competition right outside the gates.

I believe they're starting to realize that at the prices they charge for lodging, they must provide more amenities like comfortable beds, mini-fridges and wi-fi if they want to keep pulling in decent occupancy rates.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As much as I'd like to agree with that statement, I believe they're finally bowing to their competition right outside the gates.

I believe they're starting to realize that at the prices they charge for lodging, they must provide more amenities like comfortable beds, mini-fridges and wi-fi if they want to keep pulling in decent occupancy rates.

You are dead on...

 

[crostorfer]

You are dead on...

I second that motion.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lol...seriously...lauded for "free" wifi (at 500 a night at the grand Floridian)...

Holiday inn should look into that...

Wait, they did - in 2006

 

[Phatoomch]

Lol...seriously...lauded for "free" wifi (at 500 a night at the grand Floridian)...

Holiday inn should look into that...

Wait, they did - in 2006

You can't compare - Holiday Inn is full of businessman where wi-fi is a necessity. I, for one, would never need wifi at Disney even though we run our own business and spend most of my regular life online for business & pleasure. In DIsney I'm on vacation, I don't wanna see my emails.

 

[eva]

Just spent a bit of time reading over this entire thread. We have been going to WDW at least once a year for the last 18 years. Perks have come and gone throughout that entire time. Some I miss and some I barely knew they went away. The thing I find funny is that almost every one of the perks people have mentioned missing on this thread weren't even in existence 18 years ago. I know that some have said that you can't go back to the opening of WDW to compare perks. But you have to go back to somewhere in time to compare. So I chose when we started coming. There are a lot more perks today compared to 18 years ago. Some I love like FastPass and other I don't care for like the Dining Plan. But we still love WDW and will most likely keep going back. And if something disappears, I just assume either Disney is losing money on it or no one was really using the perk. Can't fault them for doing that. We still have a great vacation every time!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You can't compare - Holiday Inn is full of businessman where wi-fi is a necessity. I, for one, would never need wifi at Disney even though we run our own business and spend most of my regular life online for business & pleasure. In DIsney I'm on vacation, I don't wanna see my emails.

Yes you actually can...

The resort traffic at WDW is far from "vacationers only"...you are speaking of YOU

And while Many if not most travelers at WDW are vacationers...there is a significant business/conventioneer component that do need those services.

There aren't five convention centers there for "magical" family groups from Des
Moines...

Your argument is invalid...there is enough demand for these types if services at WDW

That and the fact that WDW caters to a specific clientele: those with disposable money and the freedom to use it...and that clientele has specific desires...

Namely: everything.

The fact is the lack of modern conveniences was really starting to make them look bad...in down economic times those corner cutting policies look even worse.

And don't forget the rise of the smartphone/ tablet...which have become the rule, not the exception...Disney must know, by now, that it is better to provide the service and use the platforms to sell to travelers at the parks - rather than attempt to restrict access to outside info/entertainment to force People into the gift shops - as had been the previous tact.

By your logic...no hotel in new York, Paris, London, or las Vegas needs wifi because there maybe lots of tourists there...but yet they still bother to do it.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

This thread has me curious about something.

Disney goes to great lengths to find out how many times I have travelled to Disney World and when was my last visit. They make a point of asking me EVERY single time I call (sometimes both the automated system and the live person ask within the same call). They ask me the same two questions when I check in to my resort. I have even been stopped to answer a poll on my way into or out of the parks a few times, and each time, they want to know how many times have I visited and when was my last visit.

This has been going on for a few years now.

I wonder what it is they hope to gain by that information. If Disney truly is looking at guests as one time only (get 'em in and get 'em out) customers, then why do they ask?

Despite me giving Disney a hard time on the boards over the last couple of days, it really is a smart company. And I do still have faith in its business acumen. I disagree with some of their decisions, even some of the big decisions, but at least I have hope that they will right this ship.

 

[nansmama]

------------------------

 

[famsen]

This is a great point and one I was going to point out as well. I started going to Disney parks (on a regular basis) 19 years ago and none of this stuff existed--no refill mugs, no fancy napkins, no free buttons for every occasion, no EMH, no fastpass, no dedicated princess signing pavilions, no nuthin'. You went to the park, you got in line, you left when they shut off the lights, and you liked it. I feel spoiled now by all the "perks" that Disney has added in the last 10 or so years. I think they will continue to experiment with adding things and some of them won't work (or won't be worth the cost) so we'll occasionally see one taken away. It's not time to panic yet.

Now, on the wifi, I do agree THERE that it's ree-donkulous that it took Disney so long to catch up on this. Every hotel I've stayed at over the past four or so years, even rinky dinky B&B's, has free wifi. Sheesh.

"SPOILED"? When I pay thousands of dollars on a family vacation, I better feel "spoiled".

 

[Planogirl]

As much as I'd like to agree with that statement, I believe they're finally bowing to their competition right outside the gates.

I believe they're starting to realize that at the prices they charge for lodging, they must provide more amenities like comfortable beds, mini-fridges and wi-fi if they want to keep pulling in decent occupancy rates.

Particularly true if they plan to decrease other amenities such as EMH and perhaps charge for fastpasses at some point. I hope that none of that happens but....

 

[Dan Murphy]

....Now, on the wifi, I do agree THERE that it's ree-donkulous that it took Disney so long to catch up on this. Every hotel I've stayed at over the past four or so years, even rinky dinky B&B's, has free wifi. Sheesh.

Many, maybe most, high end hotels in the 'real' world charge for Net access in rooms, some even in common areas. Anywhere from $9.95 a night to $15 and higher.