What will WDW "cut" next?

[famsen]

I was alive for the "new coke" fiasco. Here is the thing. Many, many, many more people world wide drink coke than vacation at Disney.

So, I get what you are saying. Disney won't do anything unless we both complain vocally AND start spending less there. That is your plan for change.

I see by your ticker you're going soon. Way to start that wave of change.

Before rolling our eyes at me and seeing me as being hyocritical, to be honest my husband and I have had in depth dicussions as of late as to whether or not to dump our DVC membership due to all the recent changes and taking away of the many "little" things we have loved about Disney. This would mean no more yearly visits to WDW. So I actually DO put my money where my mouth is.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

Right now, I'd even go so far as to say they're moving to subtly discourage repeat visitors... They've been reporting higher attendance but lower per-guest spending through the recession and I think they're attempting to reverse that trend. The hike in AP prices with the elimination of the child's rate and the cutbacks on AP rates that make them less desirable than GP offers tell me that they're tired of frequent guests who know all the money-saving tricks and don't buy piles of souvenirs every trip. They'd rather be filling rooms with first time visitors who will buy a dining plan that costs more than it is worth and shop like there's no tomorrow because "its once in a lifetime".

I think you are right. Makes me glad I have been calling 10 times per day to tinker with my resort reservations. Maybe I can single-handedly skew the results of their survey.

Actually, what you have described in the paragraph above is exactly what I have been sensing, and it is why I have joined in on a few of these threads over the last couple of days. I have this sinking feeling that Disney really doesn't care about me as a customer, let alone as a guest, anymore.

They are not looking for loyalty. Their marketing strategy seems to have shifted to luring in first time visitors, conference goers, and foreign tour groups.

For most of my life, Walt Disney World has done such a good job of making me feel like a valued guest. It's sad for me to lose that. It makes their business no different than any other business for me.

An iconic brand, like Disney, plays a meaningful role in a consumer's life. It delivers a feeling that a person just cannot get from any other brand. Walt Disney World has always excelled at being an icon. They have always had a clear sense of purpose, focus, and excellent storytelling.

Walt Disney World DID care about repeat guests once upon a time. But it appears, now, Disney is not minding their brand.

 

[Sam81]

I think you are right. Makes me glad I have been calling 10 times per day to tinker with my resort reservations. Maybe I can single-handedly skew the results of their survey.

Actually, what you have described in the paragraph above is exactly what I have been sensing, and it is why I have joined in on a few of these threads over the last couple of days. I have this sinking feeling that Disney really doesn't care about me as a customer, let alone as a guest, anymore.

They are not looking for loyalty. Their marketing strategy seems to have shifted to luring in first time visitors, conference goers, and foreign tour groups.

For most of my life, Walt Disney World has done such a good job of making me feel like a valued guest. It's sad for me to lose that. It makes their business no different than any other business for me.

An iconic brand, like Disney, plays a meaningful role in a consumer's life. It delivers a feeling that a person just cannot get from any other brand. Walt Disney World has always excelled at being an icon. They have always had a clear sense of purpose, focus, and excellent storytelling.

Walt Disney World DID care about repeat guests once upon a time. But it appears, now, Disney is not minding their brand.

I think you may have summed up why they are no larger targeting you. There is a cost associated with dealing with your changes/tweaks every day. I’m sure it’s not 10 times a day, but still I imagine they have figured out the target revenue vs. expense for your demographic.

It is much easier to focus on the one and done type customers. Also, they already got you, what more advertising can they do?

 

[slaball1]

Because that's an easy way to keep track of the number of first-timers vs return guests. If 70% (the generally quoted figure, though I'm not sure of source or accuracy) are choosing the "never been" option they know they don't need to worry too much about the opinions of repeat guests. If ever that shifts, expect them to reassess their policies at that point, but so long as all their feedback is showing first/very-occasional guests to be the vast majority they can safely continue to disregard the perception of frequent guests.

Right now, I'd even go so far as to say they're moving to subtly discourage repeat visitors... They've been reporting higher attendance but lower per-guest spending through the recession and I think they're attempting to reverse that trend. The hike in AP prices with the elimination of the child's rate and the cutbacks on AP rates that make them less desirable than GP offers tell me that they're tired of frequent guests who know all the money-saving tricks and don't buy piles of souvenirs every trip. They'd rather be filling rooms with first time visitors who will buy a dining plan that costs more than it is worth and shop like there's no tomorrow because "its once in a lifetime".

Agreed 100%

 

[slaball1]

Actually, what you have described in the paragraph above is exactly what I have been sensing, and it is why I have joined in on a few of these threads over the last couple of days. I have this sinking feeling that Disney really doesn't care about me as a customer, let alone as a guest, anymore.

They are not looking for loyalty. Their marketing strategy seems to have shifted to luring in first time visitors, conference goers, and foreign tour groups.

For most of my life, Walt Disney World has done such a good job of making me feel like a valued guest. It's sad for me to lose that. It makes their business no different than any other business for me.

An iconic brand, like Disney, plays a meaningful role in a consumer's life. It delivers a feeling that a person just cannot get from any other brand. Walt Disney World has always excelled at being an icon. They have always had a clear sense of purpose, focus, and excellent storytelling.

Walt Disney World DID care about repeat guests once upon a time. But it appears, now, Disney is not minding their brand.

 

[crostorfer]

Agreed 100%

It's just like cable and cell phone companies. They only run their best offers and promotions for brand new customers. When it comes time to renew your deal their tune changes. You cell phone carrier doesn't care diddly squat if you switch for a better deal. They cut features and raise prices consistently, just like Disney does. The model for big business is all the same.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

I think you may have summed up why they are no larger targeting you. There is a cost associated with dealing with your changes/tweaks every day. I’m sure it’s not 10 times a day, but still I imagine they have figured out the target revenue vs. expense for your demographic.

It is much easier to focus on the one and done type customers. Also, they already got you, what more advertising can they do?

I don't know. Every time I call I am upgrading. I started at All Star Movies and now I am at Animal Kingdom Lodge Club Level. It's just me and an 8 year old for 13 nights. I think Disney will profit off of our stay.

I don't think Disney needs to do any more advertising to "get me" per se, but making me feel like a valued guest, while I am there, sure would do a lot to ensure that I book another vacation later this year and again next summer.

The model for big business is all the same.

But see, that's it. Disney created a brand that said they were different.

 

[crostorfer]

I don't know. Every time I call I am upgrading. I started at All Star Movies and now I am at Animal Kingdom Lodge Club Level. It's just me and an 8 year old for 13 nights. I think Disney will profit off of our stay.

I don't think Disney needs to do any more advertising to "get me" per se, but making me feel like a valued guest, while I am there, sure would do a lot to ensure that I book another vacation later this year and again next summer.



But see, that's it. Disney created a brand that said they were different.

That's the point I keep harping on though, and what Colleen touched on. They don't care if you come back. If you go once, then come back repeatedly, you are no longer a part of their core target audience. They bank on the 1st time, and possibly once in a lifetime, visitors. Once you've gone the first time and shelled out extreme amounts of money, they've gotten what they essentially wanted from you.

And once again, no should be taking this personally. 'Tis life. They aren't betraying you, they are running four theme parks, two water parks, and a baker's dozen resort hotels. This isn't "family" as much as people would like to think. We are but tiny fish in a large ocean of guests.

 

[eva]

Wish I could find archives for 10+ years ago here on the DIS. I have seen threads like this so many times in the past 15 years that I can't even begin to guess at how many. When people lose a couple perks they love, it usually starts a new thread like this. I really do not feel that WDW has gone downhill in the past 18 years. Things just change. And change is often painful to some. If enough people are dissatisfied enough to quit going, then Disney will make even more changes. Some we'll like and others we may not really care about.

I think that Disney does listen, but $$$ speaks louder than words any day. Threatening to not go isn't enough. You got to go through with it. I sold 400 DVC points last year and kept 400. Why? Because trades got too crazy point wise and I didn't need the points for cruises and such anymore. If we go, we pay cash now. But we do it less than before. Disney's loss? I have no idea. But I have to do what works for us and our vacation needs. Everyone else will have to do the same.

 

[eva]

That's the point I keep harping on though, and what Colleen touched on. They don't care if you come back. If you go once, then come back repeatedly, you are no longer a part of their core target audience. They bank on the 1st time, and possibly once in a lifetime, visitors. Once you've gone the first time and shelled out extreme amounts of money, they've gotten what they essentially wanted from you.

And once again, no should be taking this personally. 'Tis life. They aren't betraying you, they are running four theme parks, two water parks, and a baker's dozen resort hotels. This isn't "family" as much as people would like to think. We are but tiny fish in a large ocean of guests.

I don't think this is true. If it were, why do they keep building more DVC resorts?

 

[slaball1]

That's the point I keep harping on though, and what Colleen touched on. They don't care if you come back. If you go once, then come back repeatedly, you are no longer a part of their core target audience. They bank on the 1st time, and possibly once in a lifetime, visitors. Once you've gone the first time and shelled out extreme amounts of money, they've gotten what they essentially wanted from you.

And once again, no should be taking this personally. 'Tis life. They aren't betraying you, they are running four theme parks, two water parks, and a baker's dozen resort hotels. This isn't "family" as much as people would like to think. We are but tiny fish in a large ocean of guests.

Sadly, I tend to agree with you on this.

 

[crostorfer]

I don't think this is true. If it were, why do they keep building more DVC resorts?

Because the profit they make from DVC sales in comparison with how much they cost to build each individual unit is likely massive. I couldn't believe how much it was to buy into DVC, my eyes boggled. If you buy into DVC they have already gotten so much money out of you they don't care if you make your own breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of your trip, you've already paid them back in spades. Plus, they have the added bonus of getting your money for you whether you go or not. You are still paying for your time share. It's no different than any other time share racket.

Also, buying into DVC doesn't mean that you will solely return to Disney World year after year. You can use your points at various DVC properties in the continental US and now Hawaii.

 

[eva]

Because the profit they make from DVC sales in comparison with how much they cost to build each individual unit is likely massive. I couldn't believe how much it was to buy into DVC, my eyes boggled. If you buy into DVC they have already gotten so much money out of you they don't care if you make your own breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of your trip, you've already paid them back in spades. Plus, they have the added bonus of getting your money for you whether you go or not. You are still paying for your time share. It's no different than any other time share racket.

Also, buying into DVC doesn't mean that you will solely return to Disney World year after year. You can use your points at various DVC properties in the continental US and now Hawaii.

All I can say is that if a first time visitor doesn't want to return to WDW, they are not going to buy DVC. So it is in Disney's best interest to see that people want to return. How can they sell and keep building more, if so few are returning? Now I do feel that Disney is more interested in the first time visitor AND the Disney fanatic that goes multiple times a year. But I feel that WDW makes more money off of return visitors than you think. Sure would love to know the numbers.

 

[crostorfer]

All I can say is that if a first time visitor doesn't want to return to WDW, they are not going to buy DVC. So it is in Disney's best interest to see that people want to return. How can they sell and keep building more, if so few are returning? Now I do feel that Disney is more interested in the first time visitor AND the Disney fanatic that goes multiple times a year. But I feel that WDW makes more money off of return visitors than you think. Sure would love to know the numbers.

I'd like to know the percentage of people who get all hopped up on their trip cool-aid, buy into DVC immediately after their tour, fork over their check, pay their monthly payment, then never go back again.

I have a friend who owns at Bay Lake Tower. She hasn't been in three years, although they've been to the Grand Californian, and to Aulani.

 

[eva]

I'd like to know the percentage of people who get all hopped up on their trip cool-aid, buy into DVC immediately after their tour, fork over their check, pay their monthly payment, then never go back again.

I have a friend who owns at Bay Lake Tower. She hasn't been in three years, although they've been to the Grand Californian, and to Aulani.

Great, we all have stories. I have been a member for over 15 years. I have many friends that have purchased since. Only one that never used it much and sold it. But I wouldn't base my whole belief system on any of that. And if WDW is so runned down, how on earth are they getting people so hyped up to buy? Somebody is returning. Ever tried to get a DVC room a couple months out? Nearly impossible most months. So someone is coming back.

 

[crostorfer]

Great, we all have stories. I have been a member for over 15 years. I have many friends that have purchased since. Only one that never used it much and sold it. But I wouldn't base my whole belief system on any of that. And if WDW is so runned down, how on earth are they getting people so hyped up to buy? Somebody is returning. Ever tried to get a DVC room a couple months out? Nearly impossible most months. So someone is coming back.

I never said Disney World was "run down". I don't think it is. I'm on the side that doesn't care about Napkin-Gate and the EMH hour thing. I'm on the side of realistic expectations.

My only point is that I don't think Disney cares if you return or not, as much as they care about their core demographic, which is first time, and possibly once in a lifetime guests.

And as for DVC, it behooves them to sell as many units as possible, because for every unit they sell, there is a family they are getting money from, monthly, and not a little bit of money, regardless of whether they come to Walt Disney World or not. Rather than fewer, I think we'll see many more DVC properties spring up in the future. Do I think that will improve quality or make them care more about return guests as opposed to 1st timers? No, absolutely not.

 

[Planogirl]

It's just like cable and cell phone companies. They only run their best offers and promotions for brand new customers. When it comes time to renew your deal their tune changes. You cell phone carrier doesn't care diddly squat if you switch for a better deal. They cut features and raise prices consistently, just like Disney does. The model for big business is all the same.

I wonder if that's why we finally got a pin code this year. We've been staying offsite and were prepared to do so again but after years of nothing we got a pin. So of course we're back onsite.

Clever Disney.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

Wish I could find archives for 10+ years ago here on the DIS. I have seen threads like this so many times in the past 15 years that I can't even begin to guess at how many. When people lose a couple perks they love, it usually starts a new thread like this. I really do not feel that WDW has gone downhill in the past 18 years. Things just change. And change is often painful to some. If enough people are dissatisfied enough to quit going, then Disney will make even more changes. Some we'll like and others we may not really care about.

You are right about that. This article reminded me of our discussion on this thread, and it was written 10 years ago, right after September 11th.

http://www.mouseplanet.com/mike/policy_changes.htm

 

[Phatoomch]

That's the point I keep harping on though, and what Colleen touched on. They don't care if you come back. If you go once, then come back repeatedly, you are no longer a part of their core target audience. They bank on the 1st time, and possibly once in a lifetime, visitors. Once you've gone the first time and shelled out extreme amounts of money, they've gotten what they essentially wanted from you.

And once again, no should be taking this personally. 'Tis life. They aren't betraying you, they are running four theme parks, two water parks, and a baker's dozen resort hotels. This isn't "family" as much as people would like to think. We are but tiny fish in a large ocean of guests.

Finally. One paragraph says it all & very well

I do see my relationship with Disney purely as business, maybe thats why I don't sweat the small cuts, I just acknowledge them.

I pay my money, they give me (imo) a magical experience. I want to spend my money frivolously, they provide frivolous stuff for me to buy. I accept that the place is run by people not magicians, they accept that I may never come back again.

It works for me