What should DS21 pay for?

[erincon23]

My oldest son turns 21 next month. He lives at home (for now) and works part time (35 hours at Starbucks) while he's trying to get a music career going. He doesn't go to school. Currently, he pays for his own entertainment, his gas (we own the car he uses), and gives us $75/mo, which pays his portion of a school loan, some of his cell phone, and some of his car insurance.

We've told him that when he turns 21, he'll have to pay a much greater share of his expenses. I'll continue to buy the food for the family, and we won't charge him rent as such (DH and I have already decided on this, so no need to address it). He stays on our health insurance, and it doesn't cost any more to cover him specifically. I've told him that he will be paying any medical co-pays and any resulting bills from medical appointments -- he's a healthy kid, so that shouldn't be a big deal. He'll pay for his prescriptions (1 at $10/month currently). I think he should pay for the majority of the insurance on the car he drives (DS17 also drives that car occasionally, so I won't make DS20 pay the whole bill), and all of his cell phone bill. Does that all sound reasonable so far?

Beyond that -- does he buy his own personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, etc)? All his own clothes and shoes? DH and I are planning to sit down with him before his birthday and have a financial planning meeting, so he knows this is coming. I want him to be saving to move out -- he had been planning to move this fall, but since he just recently, within the month, got a job after being out of work for 6 months, I don't think that will happen. He's more than welcome to stay for another year or so -- he's very pleasant to live with and it's good for his brother to have him here (but DS17 goes away to college in a year as well). Anything I've missed?

 

[Poohforyou]

I think each of my brothers and I lived at home for a bit after college and my mom had us give her 25% of our weekly take home pay to cover expenses which included food, insurance - medical & car, and other incidentals. We didn't have cell phones but did pay for our own clothes and personal care products if we wanted different things than what was on hand.

It might be easier to go this route than pick apart each bill and figure out his share. If he's on your cell phone plan and under your insurance his share is less than if he had these things on his own. The 25% might cover a good portion of those things. Especially if you won't be charging room & board.

 

[ZehnJahren]

At that age, I'd think all his personal expenses (clothes, shoes, gas, medical, etc) should be covered by him. I think it's smart that you aren't going to charge him the whole amount of the car insurance; that wouldn't be fair. One thing you could do is charge him a minimal rent, but instead of using it for your housing expenses put it away in an account - and when DS is ready to move out, you could give it back to him as a security deposit on an apartment.

 

[fr spodo komodo]

I think your son needs to move out and on his own feet.Realistically he's going to have a hard time making a living out of music so if I were you I would encourage him to get another job

 

[disykat]

I would have him pay for ALL of his own personal expenses - clothes, cell phone, prescriptions, etc. I'd also have him pay at least half of the school loans, ALL if he could afford it. Better yet, you make the loan payment using the money you save making him pay his own expenses and make him put money each month onto the principle. I'd be less likely to have him pay the car insurance, since the vehicle he drives is yours - but I'd put an end date on when he can rely on you for transportation.

He's probably making around $1500 a month? If he were still living in my home, In addition to him covering his own personal expenses, I'd also be expecting to see a huge chunk of that going into a savings account and/or onto the principle of his student loans.

 

[photos_101]

We have a 20yr daughter who is a full time student (19hrs last semester) and works part time (24hrs a week). She lives at home and pays her car insurance and cell phone which is $100 month. Our agreement was she could live at home as long as she was a full time student and she would be responsible for those bills above. IF she was no longer a full time student then she would pay LOTS more. (LOTS..as in she would probably be better off finding a roommate and living on her own )
I started warning her when she was in her final months of her senior year of highschool the expectations we had. We would pay for her cell/ins. up until August, when she started college. That gave her 2 months after HS to get a job to pay her expenses.

She is welcome to eat whatever she wants that we have here at home, however, she is vegetarian and likes her own types of food. So she is responsible for anything like that she might want. So she usually spends $40week on those items.
Any clothes or shoes are her responsibility. Gas and maintenance for her car are her responsibility. She actually just bought a newer car a couple months ago. She had saved all her money for the last couple years and when her car died on her, she had enough to buy a 2007 model.

I guess my thinking is she needs to be able to take care of herself as much as possible. She can not live here forever. And the easier we make it for her to stay here, the longer she will stay.

35hrs is alot of hours for part time. There are grown adults with families who live on that.

We do have her on our health ins and will continue to do so as long as we are allowed.
Honestly, I can't imagine letting an adult child live in my home rent free while not a full time student, yet working basically full time hours. Unless there are health reasons of course.
I will say that we are a very modest one income family. So she is used to living a modest lifestyle. I know if she had to move out, she would do fine. But living at home gives her the option to do some fun things she would otherwise not be able to afford. And she should graduate with NO student loans, so she will already be ahead of the game in the long run. I try to help her out as much as possible but still letting her learn the life lessons a young adult should be faced with. Life lessons are invaluable in the 'real' world!

 

[erincon23]

I think your son needs to move out and on his own feet.Realistically he's going to have a hard time making a living out of music so if I were you I would encourage him to get another job

Sorry, that's not the issue. We support him in his attempt to make a go of music... it'll be his decision (and his wallet's, and his girlfriend's) at what point he decides it's not going to work. He understands that he has to figure out how to support himself, beyond whatever he makes with music, until that becomes self-supporting.

I would have him pay for ALL of his own personal expenses - clothes, cell phone, prescriptions, etc. I'd also have him pay at least half of the school loans, ALL if he could afford it. Better yet, you make the loan payment using the money you save making him pay his own expenses and make him put money each month onto the principle. I'd be less likely to have him pay the car insurance, since the vehicle he drives is yours - but I'd put an end date on when he can rely on you for transportation.

He's probably making around $1500 a month? If he were still living in my home, In addition to him covering his own personal expenses, I'd also be expecting to see a huge chunk of that going into a savings account and/or onto the principle of his student loans.

He's thrifty, and saves quite a bit of his check already - always has, and he still has quite a bit in savings, despite not having worked (a regular job - he's done all kinds of other things -- live sound, recording, gigging and a host of odd jobs). He already pays half the school loan - the agreement was that we would pick up part of it, and he pays the other part, so that's taken care of. It's not much anyway.

 

[brockash]

At that age, I'd think all his personal expenses (clothes, shoes, gas, medical, etc) should be covered by him. I think it's smart that you aren't going to charge him the whole amount of the car insurance; that wouldn't be fair. One thing you could do is charge him a minimal rent, but instead of using it for your housing expenses put it away in an account - and when DS is ready to move out, you could give it back to him as a security deposit on an apartment.

I agree- he should be totally responsible for his own personal stuff. I know every situation is different, but just to use as a perspective, there are many 21 year olds that are and have been completely out on their own for a long time. There are some who own homes and have children who they are soley responsible for etc.

I really like the idea of having him pay at least a portion of rent and for you to save it away and give to him either when he leaves, or to save until something big comes up that he may need or be able to use the extra money for.

Also, what are his plans for transportation once he moves out? It seems that buying a vehicle may be a first priority before moving out??

 

[megsoro]

I'll tell you what my parents make me do at 22. Even though I live out of the house with a roommate, I give my parents $150 a month for my car insurance, prescription (that has to be file in nj and mailed to ga where I live) and cell phone. I'm on their health plan, and during the school year my mom and I split the monthly payment amount evenly. I'm responsible for living expenses, including food, rent utilities, vet care and pet food, and gas. Also any project costs that come up with school. I work 25-35 hours a week , cutting back when I need to for school. I don't make anywhere near $1500- more like $900 a month- my roommate and I just live simply.

 

[erincon23]

I agree- he should be totally responsible for his own personal stuff. I know every situation is different, but just to use as a perspective, there are many 21 year olds that are and have been completely out on their own for a long time. There are some who own homes and have children who they are soley responsible for etc.

I really like the idea of having him pay at least a portion of rent and for you to save it away and give to him either when he leaves, or to save until something big comes up that he may need or be able to use the extra money for.

Also, what are his plans for transportation once he moves out? It seems that buying a vehicle may be a first priority before moving out??

Instead of him giving us "rent" and us saving it for him, I think it's better for his fiscal independence for him to actually save it. I'm not worried about that - he's already got direct deposit set up for some to go to his checking and at least half to go to savings.

Transportation -- he waffles. He's talking about moving into Chicago, where he wouldn't need a car on a regular basis, and then he may buy a share of a rental-on-demand car thing. But if he stays in a near suburb, he'll probably have to buy a car -- that's his problem.

 

[ICF]

21 and not in school....he should be pretty much paying all his daily living expenses.

 

[brymolmom]

A few thoughts...

1) I had a nephew live with us for his last year and a half of college. We did not charge him rent...He paid all his own bills. He was 'responsible' for helping around the house for his 'rent' but was very bad at it. For this reason I sat him down about 2 months before graduation and went through all his expenses and earnings and told him that after graduation he would owe me $200 month in rent. This was great for a number of reasons - first and foremost...He started looking for another place to live. While I love him - I was not happy with having to remind him to clean his bathroom and we are all much happier now that he's out. Even though you don't want to do formal rent...I think it is a wonderful lesson to teach a young adult...Maybe charge something but just keep it in a savings account for him and give it to him as a down payment on his first house or his wedding?
2) For the music that he wants to do - I'm all about helping kids pursue dreams...Is he really applying himself? Hitting the pavement and doing real work toward it? If not- then I would be more hesitant to continue helping to such a great degree and more insistant on him finding a 'real' job.
3) I think he should eventually be responsible for all his own bills - Car (buy yours from you maybe), insurance, phone (in his name - not one in yours), food, clothes, haircuts, everythign. Now, maybe not all of this tomorrow...but maybe work out a schedule. As of now you will handle bills 1 and 2 and in six months we'll add 2 more. The last thing you want is for this kid to be 25 years old and have no idea how much money it takes to actually be 'on your own 2 feet'. ANother trap that I've seen my own nieces and nephews that age get into is not quite understanding need vs. luxury. I ask many parents of kids that age and they'll say the kids can't afford to move out but 9 times out of 10 that kid has a phone with data plan (LUXURY) and a much better car than the beater that I had at that age. I know I want my kids to start understanding that they have to pick and choose what to do and what to buy (cable? No way - not until you can afford it).
4) As is the case with my nephew in #1 above - When a 'kid' is an adult he/she also needs to start pulling weight around the house. OP didn't mention if he does this or not - but this would be huge for me if it was my kid - DOes he already mow the lawn, pick up some milk on his way home when he uses the last of it, throw in a load of towels into the laundry, take out the garbage without being asked, clean the tub and shower on occassion, strip and clean the sheets of his bed??? ALl these things would factor into my decisions as these would show he is recognizing the need to start acting more like an adult.

Good for you for helping your child and for realizing that it's time to start having him help himself - Way too many parents don't.

 

[photos_101]

My oldest son turns 21 next month. He lives at home (for now) and works part time (35 hours at Starbucks) while he's trying to get a music career going. He doesn't go to school. Currently, he pays for his own entertainment, his gas (we own the car he uses), and gives us $75/mo, which pays his portion of a school loan, some of his cell phone, and some of his car insurance.
We've told him that when he turns 21, he'll have to pay a much greater share of his expenses. I'll continue to buy the food for the family, and we won't charge him rent as such (DH and I have already decided on this, so no need to address it). He stays on our health insurance, and it doesn't cost any more to cover him specifically. I've told him that he will be paying any medical co-pays and any resulting bills from medical appointments -- he's a healthy kid, so that shouldn't be a big deal. He'll pay for his prescriptions (1 at $10/month currently). I think he should pay for the majority of the insurance on the car he drives (DS17 also drives that car occasionally, so I won't make DS20 pay the whole bill), and all of his cell phone bill. Does that all sound reasonable so far?

Beyond that -- does he buy his own personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, etc)? All his own clothes and shoes? DH and I are planning to sit down with him before his birthday and have a financial planning meeting, so he knows this is coming. I want him to be saving to move out -- he had been planning to move this fall, but since he just recently, within the month, got a job after being out of work for 6 months, I don't think that will happen. He's more than welcome to stay for another year or so -- he's very pleasant to live with and it's good for his brother to have him here (but DS17 goes away to college in a year as well). Anything I've missed?

The bolded part above, I find very interesting. I just don't see how $75 could pay even a small portion of all of that. It would not even cover my DS16 car insurance for the month, let alone cell phone and student loan.

In my opinion, any kind of work in the 'Arts' field is one that is accomplished very slowly. My DD wants to be an independant photographer. I told her that is fine however, it is something that you have to get to gradually. As in, she will more than likely have to do that as her hobby/part time job while maintaining a full time job for her living expenses. Then one day when she is more advanced and financially sound she could make it her full time career.

She learned this lesson fairly quickly when she tried to do photography sessions on the side. One month was very busy, next 3 months were slow. Nothing that she could make a living off of, until she is established. The only way she could have learned this lesson is by living it. Not by mom and dad handing out to her because the career she really wanted was so unpredictable.

 

[MrsPete]

21, not in school, and you're still supporting him financially? Not the choices I'd make.

I'd say he should be paying 100% of his personal expenses, including transportation. I can see including him on your insurance and cell phone because it's cheaper than him having his own personal policy; however, he should be paying his share. He's not even paying his own school loan? I would charge him rent and save it for him. Even though you say he's saving on his on, you're sheltering him from the experience of paying bills. In the long run, this is no favor to him.

I can understand wanting to help him in a musical career, but by supporting him as if he were still child, you're almost handicapping him. You're allowing him to believe he can live a better lifestyle than he can afford. It's time for him to be an adult.

 

[MrsPete]

Sorry, that's not the issue. We support him in his attempt to make a go of music... it'll be his decision (and his wallet's, and his girlfriend's) at what point he decides it's not going to work. He understands that he has to figure out how to support himself, beyond whatever he makes with music, until that becomes self-supporting

Respectfully, this is not true. You are not leaving it to his decision, his wallet's decision, his girlfriend's decision. By supplementing his income (rather significantly) you are keeping him dependent and are preventing him from realizing what he can/can't actually achieve through his music.

 

[erincon23]

2) For the music that he wants to do - I'm all about helping kids pursue dreams...Is he really applying himself? Hitting the pavement and doing real work toward it? If not- then I would be more hesitant to continue helping to such a great degree and more insistant on him finding a 'real' job.

Just a quick note about his music career - this isn't at all what I asked about, and I'm not asking for any advice about this.

3) I think he should eventually be responsible for all his own bills - Car (buy yours from you maybe), insurance, phone (in his name - not one in yours), food, clothes, haircuts, everythign. Now, maybe not all of this tomorrow...but maybe work out a schedule. As of now you will handle bills 1 and 2 and in six months we'll add 2 more. The last thing you want is for this kid to be 25 years old and have no idea how much money it takes to actually be 'on your own 2 feet'. ANother trap that I've seen my own nieces and nephews that age get into is not quite understanding need vs. luxury. I ask many parents of kids that age and they'll say the kids can't afford to move out but 9 times out of 10 that kid has a phone with data plan (LUXURY) and a much better car than the beater that I had at that age. I know I want my kids to start understanding that they have to pick and choose what to do and what to buy (cable? No way - not until you can afford it).

He's very thrifty, completely understands want vs. need - we live this way, he gets it.

4) As is the case with my nephew in #1 above - When a 'kid' is an adult he/she also needs to start pulling weight around the house. OP didn't mention if he does this or not - but this would be huge for me if it was my kid - DOes he already mow the lawn, pick up some milk on his way home when he uses the last of it, throw in a load of towels into the laundry, take out the garbage without being asked, clean the tub and shower on occassion, strip and clean the sheets of his bed??? ALl these things would factor into my decisions as these would show he is recognizing the need to start acting more like an adult.

He's really good about most of this, and getting better.

Good for you for helping your child and for realizing that it's time to start having him help himself - Way too many parents don't.

He's lived on his own -- in an apartment while he was at school, and did just fine. I'm sure he will again!

21, not in school, and you're still supporting him financially? Not the choices I'd make.

That's your family's decision.

I'd say he should be paying 100% of his personal expenses, including transportation. I can see including him on your insurance and cell phone because it's cheaper than him having his own personal policy; however, he should be paying his share. He's not even paying his own school loan? Yes, he's paying half of it, I already said that - that was our agreement (due to other financial issues). I would charge him rent and save it for him. Even though you say he's saving on his on, you're sheltering him from the experience of paying bills. In the long run, this is no favor to him.

I can understand wanting to help him in a musical career, but by supporting him as if he were still child, you're almost handicapping him. You're allowing him to believe he can live a better lifestyle than he can afford. It's time for him to be an adult.

We're supporting him in his dream. It's up to him to make the dream come true. WE don't believe in sink or swim - he's working toward what he wants out of his life, and we're helping him get there. If your family chooses to do things differently, that's completely your business. I'm just trying to figure out at this point what WE want him to pay for.

 

[DSNY4ever]

After college (age 21) I lived at home for just under 2 years to save up some money while starting out in a job. I did not pay rent, but I had my own health care, paid everything for my car (gas, insurance, car troubles), paid any personal bills and paid for anything I needed (personal care items, clothes etc.). I also helped out with food every once in a while and tried to do jobs around the house that my parents needed done like painting their family room, yard work etc. (I felt like I was at least helping).

I was able to move out and get married after a year and my husband and I had a nice savings to get started and buy a house. It is nice that you want to help your son, but paying for everything for him isn't teaching him anything. Trust me, he'll be better in the long run if you teach him how to budget and save now.

 

[Handbag Lady]

Kudos to you for supporting your son in his dream. I run across so many people in my career who had parents who didn't support them, they just had to work SO much harder and are somewhat bitter now towards family that NOW are supportive (where were they all along????). Those who were supported fully by their parents, well, you can just tell when you meet them how proud they are of their kids.

I work in entertainment, by the way. I make a good living and I love my job. It can be done.

 

[Sparkly]

I pay my parents housekeeping to include electricity and water used and pay for my own food for breakfast, lunches, drinks and snacks. I usually buy my own clothes and any toiletries and prescriptions needed. I'm 19 years old.

 

[RitaE]

If it were me I'd probably bump his rent up to at least $200 a month and continue to pay his cell phone and health care expenses and let him use the car but he provides the gas and he can eat from your fridge and share meals if he is at home when you have them.

That is more than generous. I imagine he costs at least $150 a month in food alone if he is anything like my kids.

I think he should buy all his own clothes. Stuff like shampoo and toothpaste too if it is practical - it is kind of hard unless he has his own bathroom.

Like somebody else said, he should be clearing $1200 to $1400 from Starbucks, right? I guess I don't understand exactly what his musical career expenses are that means he can't pay more of his own living expenses.