What should DS21 pay for?

[drinkme]

21 and not in school....he should be pretty much paying all his daily living expenses.

I agree with this. If he's not going to school full time he should be paying 100% of his living expenses. Including room & boards. If he had plans to be moving out on his own in a few months then I would drop the room & boards to give him a chance to save some cash for his apartment deposit.

 

[gracie1]

I'm a little confused about this thread, because it really sounds to me like you don't want to make him pay for anything.
He should be paying 100% of his keep. I would charge rent, and if he shares the car - then how often? Does he only use it 50% of the time? If so, he can pay for 1/2 the car insurance bill. He should be paying for his personal items (which you said he does) and he should be paying his student loans, his cell phone.

 

[JessB320]

My oldest son turns 21 next month. He lives at home (for now) and works part time (35 hours at Starbucks) while he's trying to get a music career going. He doesn't go to school. Currently, he pays for his own entertainment, his gas (we own the car he uses), and gives us $75/mo, which pays his portion of a school loan, some of his cell phone, and some of his car insurance.

We've told him that when he turns 21, he'll have to pay a much greater share of his expenses. I'll continue to buy the food for the family, and we won't charge him rent as such (DH and I have already decided on this, so no need to address it). He stays on our health insurance, and it doesn't cost any more to cover him specifically. I've told him that he will be paying any medical co-pays and any resulting bills from medical appointments -- he's a healthy kid, so that shouldn't be a big deal. He'll pay for his prescriptions (1 at $10/month currently). I think he should pay for the majority of the insurance on the car he drives (DS17 also drives that car occasionally, so I won't make DS20 pay the whole bill), and all of his cell phone bill. Does that all sound reasonable so far?

Beyond that -- does he buy his own personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, etc)? All his own clothes and shoes? DH and I are planning to sit down with him before his birthday and have a financial planning meeting, so he knows this is coming. I want him to be saving to move out -- he had been planning to move this fall, but since he just recently, within the month, got a job after being out of work for 6 months, I don't think that will happen. He's more than welcome to stay for another year or so -- he's very pleasant to live with and it's good for his brother to have him here (but DS17 goes away to college in a year as well). Anything I've missed?

I think your first paragraph is very reasonable. Very similar to what we did with our oldest. I say yes he should buy all his own clothes, shoes and bathroom items as well.

You asked if you missed anything, I know you have a plan for insurance premiums, but what about deductibles? If he gets on an accident or comes out of the store to find someone hit him ( happened to our DS last week while he had our car) who pays the insurance deducible or the out of pocket costs?

Vacations, will you pay for everything on family vacations as you did when he was younger ? ( we pay for everything but souvenirs and extra treats)

I think it's great your talking to him now so everyone is on the same page.

 

[oneprincessjo]

As soon as I graduated high school... Actually before I graduated high school I paid for my own cell phone and car insurance. I paid my own downpayment and car loan when I bought a car at 18. I also bought all my own clothes and personal necessities (shampoo, body wash.. Etc.) since I started babysitting at 15. I also paid rent to my parents starting the first month after I graduated high school. I felt like I was ALWAYS paying them. I actually paid the entire car insurance bill for my parents and myself till the day I moved out. I think since I was forced to be responsible for myself (as much as I resented that no one else my age seemed to have to pay what I did) I was able to stand on my own 2 feet without fail when I got my first apartment at 22. I think I had saved more money when I finally moved out then I did when I was living with my parents. I am now 30 and married and have an almost 2 year old. When my daughter is a young adult and still living at home I plan to do some of the things my parents did, except I plan on using the "rent" money as a surprise savings account for when she goes out on her own or gets married... Etc. In my case I felt like I was my parents own personal piggy bank.

 

[DawnM]

The son is working 35 hours a week. It isn't like he is sitting and playing video games all day in the basement. I am not quite understanding the criticism here. He has a goal and a way to pursue it, good for him!

What he pays for is honestly whatever you and your DH feel comfortable with. I would just sit down with him and work it out.

Your son is lucky to have such supportive parents!

Dawn

 

[laurafergie]

I have lots of experience here! DD22 just moved back in and last year DS26 moved out AGAIN. The other DD22 hasn't moved back yet, (still in Grad school)but give it time...revolving doors. Lol

Anyway...while in school we "helped". More often than not I paid at least half the car insurance and paid for extra food at college and gave them small amounts of money. I did pay the cell phone. They were expected to work and pay for any extras, entertainment, car repair and maintenance (because having the car at college was a want, not a need) and personal items.

Once out of school and back home. They paid all of the above, including all of the car (we signed it over to each, don't worry, they were definite beaters , insurance and cell phone. (Older kids got together on their own family plan)

They also pitch in on food and are expected, for instance, that they will stop and pick up if asked, a list I may give them, and not expect repayment from us.

We don't charge rent, because the whole point of living with us was to save money and get ahead....however, they are expected to help out around the house, help with taking younger sisters to activities and if DH and I want to go away for the weekend, they have to be at home to watch the younger sisters.

Slacking, sleeping all day and not going to work or not contributing to the family unit was not ever a problem, but would not have been tolerated and they knew it.

 

[hsmamato2]

I'd expect the kid to work,pay ALL his own insurance bills,gas for car,and cell phone. Also all of his own clothes and other expenses. That's what we do... Anything else would be living like a child,when he is not. I don't mind living the dream,starting a career,whatever,that's fine, but paying your OWN bills while living at home and doing that is essential,IMHO.
Our car insurance doubled with DS added to it, he pays the extra amount monthly. easy to calculate-FO rme, I'd just charge those above items, plus 'living expenses" (or rent)not a lot, but I would charge it,then you don't have to quibble over every detail. pay your bills,pay your 'living expense' and that's pretty simple.

 

[ptlohmysoul]

My oldest son turns 21 next month. He lives at home (for now) and works part time (35 hours at Starbucks) while he's trying to get a music career going. He doesn't go to school. Currently, he pays for his own entertainment, his gas (we own the car he uses), and gives us $75/mo, which pays his portion of a school loan, some of his cell phone, and some of his car insurance.

We've told him that when he turns 21, he'll have to pay a much greater share of his expenses. I'll continue to buy the food for the family, and we won't charge him rent as such (DH and I have already decided on this, so no need to address it). He stays on our health insurance, and it doesn't cost any more to cover him specifically. I've told him that he will be paying any medical co-pays and any resulting bills from medical appointments -- he's a healthy kid, so that shouldn't be a big deal. He'll pay for his prescriptions (1 at $10/month currently). I think he should pay for the majority of the insurance on the car he drives (DS17 also drives that car occasionally, so I won't make DS20 pay the whole bill), and all of his cell phone bill. Does that all sound reasonable so far?

Beyond that -- does he buy his own personal care products (shampoo, deodorant, etc)? All his own clothes and shoes? DH and I are planning to sit down with him before his birthday and have a financial planning meeting, so he knows this is coming. I want him to be saving to move out -- he had been planning to move this fall, but since he just recently, within the month, got a job after being out of work for 6 months, I don't think that will happen. He's more than welcome to stay for another year or so -- he's very pleasant to live with and it's good for his brother to have him here (but DS17 goes away to college in a year as well). Anything I've missed?

Sounds reasonable so far. He should be paying for all his own personal care products if they aren't shared with his brother. Same with clothes and shoes. He should also be paying his own cell phone bill, car insurance (his portion), and any other expenses that are specifically his, anything you wouldn't have to pay for otherwise. If you had an agreement that you would pay for his education, then that's fine that you pay a part of that. It really boils down to is he growing up? Is he responsible? Is he saving his money or squandering it? Is he a contributing part of the family (financial or otherwise)? If so, who cares if he lives at home? Other cultures do that indefinitely. As long as he is contributing to the household and not a leech.

 

[sonnyjane]

My brother's situation started out this way... He was going to become a DJ. He moved back home after college. My mom pays cell phone, groceries, car insurance, occasionally gas... He doesn't pay rent. Oh, and he's now 27. I hope you have the backbone to kick him out eventually that my mom unfortunately lacks!

Do you have an exit strategy? A deadline as to when he needs to head out on his own if he hasn't struck it big?

 

[Lees3rwe]

I got my first job when I was 15 and worked all the way through high school. My parents paid for my car (a used one that my sister had first), but I paid for my gas, insurance (no cell phones way back then!), all of my clothes, etc. from then on.

 

[eliza61]

I have absolutely no problem with him pursuing his dream. I'm very happy my parents did not kick me out while I was pursuing mine. I find the dis attitude of 21 and financially independent very interesting.

My dh and my mantra has always been that we will help anyone who is actively helping themselves.
My son is 21 and a part time student and works part time. He pays his gas and personal items. He must save 15% of his paycheck, he pays for his care repairs. we pay for his insurance but truthfully a 20 year old nissan maxima with 250K adds maybe 10 bucks a month to our car insurance. He pays his cell phone.
I do not charge him rent. him living in my house does not create any more significant increase in living expenses and he is great wtih helping out.

 

[descovy]

The one thing I would consider is charging him enough money so that he has a realistic idea of what he can afford.

It's hard to ever feel like you can afford to move out if you aren't used to paying the mundane bills of rent, elec, car, etc... And it's easy to think you can afford a bigger lifestyle (in terms of entertainment and "things") if you aren't used to paying for the mundane things from your paycheck.

Check Craigslist, how much would a comparable room cost, and charge him that. Plenty of young people live on their own on a 35hr week. Entertainment & lifestyle might look a little cruder, but that's what 21 should look like.

21 shouldn't look like middle income 41.

If I were you, I would consider charging market rate for renting a room, all utilities included. If you don't need the money, set it aside for him, and give it to him later when he does move out. He could use it for household furnishings, etc... Best of all, he will gain an accurate understanding of what he can afford.

 

[sonnyjane]

I have absolutely no problem with him pursuing his dream. I'm very happy my parents did not kick me out while I was pursuing mine. I find the dis attitude of 21 and financially independent very interesting.

.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion based on personal experience? You said that you're glad your parents supported you and that you are okay supporting yours kids. I was out of college at 21 and working full time, paying rent, health insurance, etc. I lived 1,000 miles from home. For that reason I'm a proponent of kids supporting themselves, ESPECIALLY since, as I posted a few posts above, my brother did NOT ever learn to take care of himself (my mom's fault for enabling him) and I can honestly say that he is a non-productive member of society and an anvil tied to my mom's neck. It's great to lend support, but in the long run, you need to have a game plan. Have a deadline. In the "real world" you don't always get to follow your dreams AND pay bills. That's a lesson not everyone learns, unfortunately, but should.

 

[DawnM]

Yes, maybe the difference is personal experience, but it may be bitterness as well. I am sorry your parents seem to have supported one child to the detriment of another.

I lived 10,000 miles from my parents by the time I went to college at 18. My parents lived in another country. I had my first teaching job at 22 and have supported myself ever since.

I still think what the OP is doing is great. Her son has a job 35 hours a week so it isn't like he is slumming it.

OP has also stated that she didn't ask for advice about parenting, so I don't understand the unsolicited advice from everyone about how she is raising a deadbeat.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion based on personal experience? You said that you're glad your parents supported you and that you are okay supporting yours kids. I was out of college at 21 and working full time, paying rent, health insurance, etc. I lived 1,000 miles from home. For that reason I'm a proponent of kids supporting themselves, ESPECIALLY since, as I posted a few posts above, my brother did NOT ever learn to take care of himself (my mom's fault for enabling him) and I can honestly say that he is a non-productive member of society and an anvil tied to my mom's neck. It's great to lend support, but in the long run, you need to have a game plan. Have a deadline. In the "real world" you don't always get to follow your dreams AND pay bills. That's a lesson not everyone learns, unfortunately, but should.

 

[sonnyjane]

Yes, maybe the difference is personal experience, but it may be bitterness as well. I am sorry your parents seem to have supported one child to the detriment of another.

If that's what you took from that, you read it wrong. It is to HIS DETRIMENT that they help him. I am grateful I learned those skills on my own.

 

[pocomom]

hmm, based on your responses I guess I'm wondering why you are thinking of increasing his financial contributions just because he turns 21? Most of the time people charge adult children to acomplish a goal of teaching financial independance, financial responsibilty, or to encourage the birdies out of the nest... these don't appear to be your goal. Alternatively, some people ask the kid to kick in more because the child is too much of a financial burden. I'm guessing with him only contributing $75 a month so far, this isn't your issue either. I know if my adult children were laying on the couch all day they would need to kick in , and kick in huge to our familiy in order to stay, but if he is really working toward a goal, you don't feel he is taking advantage, and you like having him around I don't see a need to arbitrarially say he has to pay X now... that being said I find it odd that he is not paying for his personal items already? I think I started doing this at 16-17, mom might buy me gifts of clothing and such , but the regular things I paid for when I went shopping... does he not shop/go to the doctor independantly now? I started paying my own car insurance at 17 as well, and when I came home from college in the summers I would help out by calling my mom and dad before I came home from work and offer to pick up milk or ice cream or whatever they needed at the store. I lived at home one semester of school and paid for all my own personal stuff including insurance and oil changes etc. at the time. So I would have to vote for the he pays all his own personal stuff except when you might ocassionally buy him clothes or something as a gift.
I do think you need to set a reasonable amount of time for him to make some progress in his music as well. Artists of all sorts have regular full time jobs while pursuing their dream job. My aunt is now in her 60's and was a struggling artist her whole life, waitressing and driving school buses to pay the bills. She is starting to see success just recently and has sold several paintings in the $5,000- $7,000 range this weekend - would have been a long time to live in her parent's house while waiting for her big break.

 

[disney1990]

Our daughter was living at home after graduating from college (for about a year). She is on our cell plan; always has been because it is only another $10 a month. She paid her health insurance Cobra, her car insurance. I didn't see the need to have her pay rent. She has now moved out and is sharing an apartment with a friend.

 

[erincon23]

hmm, based on your responses I guess I'm wondering why you are thinking of increasing his financial contributions just because he turns 21? Most of the time people charge adult children to acomplish a goal of teaching financial independance, financial responsibilty, or to encourage the birdies out of the nest... these don't appear to be your goal. Alternatively, some people ask the kid to kick in more because the child is too much of a financial burden. I'm guessing with him only contributing $75 a month so far, this isn't your issue either.

We want to increase his financial contributions at this point because 1) he needs to have an understanding of how much it's going to cost to live on his own (we have also discussed budgeting and utility costs, etc. with him); and 2) so he doesn't get too comfortable living at home, with us paying everything. We're not charging him rent because we want him to save that as a cushion for when he moves out, and beyond food, he really doesn't cost us much to live here (as long as he's paying his expenses, which is what I was asking about in the first place!).

If he were still in school, it would be a different matter, but we told him that he loses that bonus by choosing to be an "adult" sooner than he would be if he were in college. He doesn't want to be living at home -- he's been looking at apartments -- but since he just got back to work, it would be very tough and probably not successful at this point. We want him to have the best chance of both independent living success and musical career success, and since he seems to be working at both of those, we'll support him for a while more. We've told him he gets another year, and then he's got to be on track for moving out, on his own, without support from us. Hopefully, his small student loan will be paid off at that point, he'll have a good handle on how much it costs to support himself, and what he'll need to do to supplement his Starbucks income, whether it's through music or being a cab driver!

 

[jakoky]

Hi there, i have kids similar in age to your son. My oldest dd is 22 and lives on her own, and has for the past year. While she lived at home, she paid no rent, food, or household bills,but was responsible for all her own bills (cell, car loan, gas, insurance). My son is 19 and the same went for him, lived for free and paid his own bills, but 2 months ago he bought his own house. Definately a proud moment for me, but a stressful one. I kept asking him if he was sure, as he had it made at home. He told me he would live at home til he could buy and would not pay rent. At 19 1/2 he was approved for a mortgage without us as cosigning, did it all on his own (with just a little loan in the down payment department that he is paying us biweekly for) My youngest is graduating next month and the same rules go for her. I will say, my kids have always paid there own cell bill, bought their cars (will us only giving a small amount), paid most of their insurance (I pay 50/month in their gr 12 year) and all their own gas.

I like the fact that you are helping him out, i felt i was doing that with my kids too. I do believe though your son could fully be on his own for all his own bills, like cell, insurance, gas, etc. I think once they are on their own if is a huge help to them if they are used to paying bills. Good luck in whatever you decide, it is completely whatever you feel is right for you and your family.

 

[luvmy3]

I think your expectations are pretty reasonable.. If you want him to pay more then have him pay all of his cell phone and all of his car insurance. Also, if he isn't paying for his personal items (shampoo, razors, clothes, etc) then I'd make him pay for those too.
Just a question about his student loan, did he go to school for music, or his he not pursuing what he went to school for? If he decided to not pursue what his degree was in, I'd make him pay all his student loan himself. (Just sharing what I would do if it was my child, not telling you what you should do).