What Happened to EPCOT?

Maybe they had other reasons to believe it was alcohol like they asked him if he had been drinking and he said yes.


Could be. But the article quoted doesn't say that. So we can all assume he was drunk, but none of us know for sure. All I was pointing out is that there are many other things that cause people to act obnoxious and out of control. Can't only blame alcohol for all of the bad behavior at the parks.
 
So the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow used to be my favorite park at the World, I loved the food, the rides were great, Illuminations was awesome, people generally weren't racing around at Magic Kingdom pace to see everything, I just enjoyed this park above the others. Until recently that is, I noticed it last year but more so now that we've come here during the summer. EPCOT has become a bit of a drunkard's paradise with no real control/oversight by CMs or managers.

I'm an adult and I can enjoy a drink or two (or three or four) and have no issues with anyone else doing the same, but there is a line between enjoying a few tasty beverages and getting wasted in a theme park full of kids. My issue comes when people are spilling over themselves or being loud and intolerable during shows or knocking over my child because they can't see where they're going, things like this.

My larger concern is that CM's seem to have no control over the problem or have just accepted it as part of the EPCOT experience.

A few "visual" aids

1) While waiting by the American pavilion for Illuminations, there are three college kids by the funnel cake stand making a bunch of noise and having a good time. I get it, it's summer and school's out and they're having a good time. Until one of the says, "I dare you!" and one of the young ladies proceeds to a full body dive into the bushes behind the railing. her friends were rolling on the floor laughing and she eventually climbs out, covered in scratches and repeatedly saying "holy ****, holy ****, that hurt" while a CM walks by and just shakes her head. This is completely acceptable behavior if I was at my neighborhood bar and we were outside getting some air, but this is not something I expect to see at a Disney Park. These folks were obviously drunk and not behaving in an acceptable manner in a park filled with children (never mind they fact that the girl could've been seriously injured), but security never came by, no senior CMs came by, nothing.

Once Illuminations got started they rolled up and proceeded to scream and yell profanities and my wife (who has a much shorter fuse than I do) turns and tells them to quiet down, there are children around. They laughed and kept yelling and I had to calm her and try to get her to ignore them because we didn't want things getting out of control. Ruined the show for us.

2) Walking through the giant store in the Japan pavilion and we get to the saki bar area. A guy my age who's clearly had too much is there with his family and he starts mocking the folks behind the register in a horrible Japanese accent. He keeps pointing and saying "how much for the happy ending!". His family is trying to get him to stop but he keeps going and says "we're just havin' fun". There are a bunch of CMs around but they go about they're business, no security comes over, nothing. The issue here is that they kept serving the guy even though he was obviously already gone. No controls in place or a lack of training on when to stop serving someone alcohol.

3) Heading towards Mexico and there's a group of about 5 college dudes walking towards us and again they're already drunk and they're pushing and shoving each other and acting like normal college kids do when they're hanging out at a bar. One of them almost bumps into my daughter and I have to push him to keep him from knocking her over. Nothing happened but we exchanged some glances, I can take care of myself but I'd have hated to have my little one have to see that it had anything escalated. Right after that, they jump to that drink stand outside and order another round of margaritas. Again, they're already drunk and belligerently pestering the server but that doesn't stop them from being served. Where is the control? We keep walking and the guys start yelling again and I share a look with the CM manning one of the merchandise stands by Africa (I think) and he says, "sun's going down, time's about right for this" as if it's expected and acceptable behavior at this point.

These are just 3 incidents that occurred, this post would get way too long if I listed every red-eyed or stumbling guest I came across. I understand that margins on alcohol sales are huge, and Disney is a corporation that has to answer to shareholders, but when is enough, enough.

The experience at EPCOT has transformed from a cultural haven where we go to get a glimpse of life on other countries and cultures outside of our own to that of "how many can I have before I hurl or pass out from the heat?". Not everyone is the same, I've seen people complete Drinks Around the World, get a buzz, and enjoy themselves without becoming a nuisance to other guests. But if this is what EPCOT is about these days, if this is what Disney is allowing the city of tomorrow to become (an outdoor bar with no means of crowd control) then....well there's not much we can do is there?

Is it just me who feels this way? Anyone else out there not enjoy this park as much as they used to because of this?



I agree with you completely! Whereas I enjoy an adult beverage or two or three just as much as the next person, it really has gotten out of control and they do not seem to be doing anything about it. It seems as if the problems that they had with the nightclubs in Downtown Disney are now spilling over to Epcot. And that is exactly why the night clubs are Non Existent at Downtown Disney now. So I think its a matter of time before the usual bad eggs spoil if for the good eggs who just want to have a beer or two while sitting on a bench waiting or people watching of relaxing while enjoying family time. They will have to crack down on it sooner or later and Im sure they see the issue. Unfortunately it will probably escalate to a drunkin brawl or a dwi with serious injuries {I hope not} before they step in and crack down!
 
Could be. But the article quoted doesn't say that. So we can all assume he was drunk, but none of us know for sure. All I was pointing out is that there are many other things that cause people to act obnoxious and out of control. Can't only blame alcohol for all of the bad behavior at the parks.
In this instance yes we can. As I stated earlier we were there for this fiasco.
 
I'm not going to defend the drunks but I do want to say something in their defense. Epcot can get extremely, extremely hot during September & October. The amount of drinks that will cause someone to get intoxicated while walking in a crowded and extremely hot park are much fewer than it would take back home on a cool breezy night. It's very possible that someone could simply not realize that fact and consequently think they're well within their normal "not drunk" behavior. I don't think I've ever gotten really bad but I have experienced the alcohol hitting me hard if I'm drinking under a bright hot shining sun. And I'm someone who can handle his booze.

As for the bad behavior, yea I've seen some of it. I haven't seen anything extremely outlandish like fights or verbal confrontations but I have seen people acting extremely goofy (no pun intended) and some stumbling, carelessness when walking around. However, it really doesn't bother me all that much as I'm busy doing my own thing and not really paying that much attention to what others are doing. I've also never not felt safe during an evening at Epcot. I still consider an evening at Epcot, even during F&W, to be one of the safest spots in the world.

Guests can't get hammered in Magic, or AK, or DHS. Drinking around the world is a big selling point to adults who may not be interested in going to Disney without it. So let these people have their one little area of one park to do what they want to do.
 
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Is this because we need to pay heed to all of the undeniable good that over-indulging in alcohol does for people?
 
I typically bring beads when I visit Epcot. It's like Mardi-Gras back there and if you flash some beads at some of the tipsy college age women and they'll show you what they got.

Of course I don't condone that type of behavior, but if they're willing to show I'm willing to look!
 
Consideration for others is not a part of many people's DNA anymore. Don't know how that happened. Europeans would call it the ugly American behavior....
 
Is this because we need to pay heed to all of the undeniable good that over-indulging in alcohol does for people?

Walking while intoxicated isn't illegal behavior. If someone wants to get plowed with booze and stumble home like a fool, they can do so.
 
I'm not going to defend the drunks but I do want to say something in their defense. Epcot can get extremely, extremely hot during September & October. The amount of drinks that will cause someone to get intoxicated while walking in a crowded and extremely hot park are much fewer than it would take back home on a cool breezy night. It's very possible that someone could simply not realize that fact and consequently think they're well within their normal "not drunk" behavior. I don't think I've ever gotten really bad but I have experienced the alcohol hitting me hard if I'm drinking under a bright hot shining sun. And I'm someone who can handle his booze.

As for the bad behavior, yea I've seen some of it. I haven't seen anything extremely outlandish like fights or verbal confrontations but I have seen people acting extremely goofy (no pun intended) and some stumbling, carelessness when walking around. However, it really doesn't bother me all that much as I'm busy doing my own thing and not really paying that much attention to what others are doing. I've also never not felt safe during an evening at Epcot. I still consider an evening at Epcot, even during F&W, to be one of the safest spots in the world.

Guests can't get hammered in Magic, or AK, or DHS. Drinking around the world is a big selling point to adults who may not be interested in going to Disney without it. So let these people have their one little area of one park to do what they want to do.

I do think the heat and humidity is an issue. Just being slightly dehydrated can affect people.

My DH and I solo wouldn't feel uncomfortable there during an evening. But I don't like to bring my kids there after a certain time, just like I wouldn't feel comfortable taking them to a bar after a certain time. But that's ok, not everything needs to be kid-friendly and maybe it is good that there is a drinking area somewhere at WDW, it is a vacation spot after all.
 
But that's ok, not everything needs to be kid-friendly and maybe it is good that there is a drinking area somewhere at WDW, it is a vacation spot after all.

Yes this was part of my point. The drinking is essentially contained to one area of one park and the hotels/resorts/restaurants. There are 4 total Disney parks 3.5 of them don't have this issue. And even in the other .5, I'm not really sure it is a big issue. But I just don't think that everything needs to be kid friendly 100% of the time. Adults have the right to have adult fun too.
 
Yes this was part of my point. The drinking is essentially contained to one area of one park and the hotels/resorts/restaurants. There are 4 total Disney parks 3.5 of them don't have this issue. And even in the other .5, I'm not really sure it is a big issue. But I just don't think that everything needs to be kid friendly 100% of the time. Adults have the right to have adult fun too.

I agree with your point for the most part, but you can't really open up a new Frozen Ever After land, right next to a restaurant where you can meet 5 Disney Princesses and around the corner from where you can meet Donald Duck in full Mexican garb, and then say the park isn't supposed to be kid friendly. Again, I'm not implying that the park has run amok with 90% of the guests being completely hammered, but the proportion of those that come into the park on a mission to get plastered has grown recently and I don't think we can deny that.

If Disney wants to market certain nights of the week as "Adult" nights and give parents a heads up that there may be behavior that little ones may not appreciate then that's fine. But you're kinda having your cake and eating it too if you're going to create an environment for kids to play and learn about other cultures and not ask adults to behave in a manner appropriate to a children's park. Adults most definitely do have the right to have fun too, we're paying for the darned vacation after all, just don't overdo it and negatively impact someone else's vacation.
 
I agree with your point for the most part, but you can't really open up a new Frozen Ever After land, right next to a restaurant where you can meet 5 Disney Princesses and around the corner from where you can meet Donald Duck in full Mexican garb, and then say the park isn't supposed to be kid friendly. Again, I'm not implying that the park has run amok with 90% of the guests being completely hammered, but the proportion of those that come into the park on a mission to get plastered has grown recently and I don't think we can deny that.

If Disney wants to market certain nights of the week as "Adult" nights and give parents a heads up that there may be behavior that little ones may not appreciate then that's fine. But you're kinda having your cake and eating it too if you're going to create an environment for kids to play and learn about other cultures and not ask adults to behave in a manner appropriate to a children's park. Adults most definitely do have the right to have fun too, we're paying for the darned vacation after all, just don't overdo it and negatively impact someone else's vacation.

Yes but on a regular day, Epcot is open from 9am till 9pm. I think everyone here recognizes that the boozers don't really get started till about 5pm or so in the evening. I know there were a few mentions of drunkards earlier in the afternoon but I think that's extremely rare and they don't cause much trouble. So sure it can be kid friendly before 5pm and more adult oriented after 5pm when it gets dark.

Where I live, there are all sorts of venues that are family friendly until dark and then the families clear out because they know things about 2 get cray cray.
 
Epcot is definitely our favorite park, but I don't think the drinking has gotten worse, I just think we've gotten older. When my husband and I started traveling to Disney together we were 22. Drinking around the World was fun, and finding other couples on the same mission just made the day more entertaining! 13 years and 2 kids later; loud college kids are irritating, and tripping over your own feet is no longer funny when they're falling into your kids. I'd say the only real difference I see now, is that instead of small groups partaking in a drinking mission, there's now enormous parties, all wearing their custom tshirts, proclaiming their want to get drunk in Epcot. If I see a group of 'Round the Worlders' I generally try to head in the opposite direction.
 
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I agree with your point for the most part, but you can't really open up a new Frozen Ever After land, right next to a restaurant where you can meet 5 Disney Princesses and around the corner from where you can meet Donald Duck in full Mexican garb, and then say the park isn't supposed to be kid friendly. Again, I'm not implying that the park has run amok with 90% of the guests being completely hammered, but the proportion of those that come into the park on a mission to get plastered has grown recently and I don't think we can deny that.

If Disney wants to market certain nights of the week as "Adult" nights and give parents a heads up that there may be behavior that little ones may not appreciate then that's fine. But you're kinda having your cake and eating it too if you're going to create an environment for kids to play and learn about other cultures and not ask adults to behave in a manner appropriate to a children's park. Adults most definitely do have the right to have fun too, we're paying for the darned vacation after all, just don't overdo it and negatively impact someone else's vacation.
I'm wondering here, as a parent and a grandparent, why is it so awful if kids see someone drunk? I always use it as an example of what NOT to do when you drink. How stupid you look, how obnoxious you are, how sick you are, etc. I've never hidden that behavior. My adult DD barely touches any alcohol. Not because she saw that behavior all her life but because she doesn't like it. I guess I just don't see the issue if kids see it.

Even if there is bad language that is also something I've never felt kids should be sheltered from. Again, it's a learning tool as something that makes you look dumb
 
Yes but on a regular day, Epcot is open from 9am till 9pm. I think everyone here recognizes that the boozers don't really get started till about 5pm or so in the evening. I know there were a few mentions of drunkards earlier in the afternoon but I think that's extremely rare and they don't cause much trouble. So sure it can be kid friendly before 5pm and more adult oriented after 5pm when it gets dark.

Where I live, there are all sorts of venues that are family friendly until dark and then the families clear out because they know things about 2 get cray cray.

I almost spit out my water reading your last line :) We can agree to disagree on this one, which is ok (not enough of that in the world these days, being right is often more important than listening to the other side).

Epcot is definitely our favorite park, but I don't think the drinking has gotten worse, I just think we've gotten older. When my husband and I started traveling to Disney together we were 22. Drinking around the World was fun, and finding other couples on the same mission just made the day more entertaining! 13 years and 2 kids later, loud college kids are irritating, and tripping over your own feet is no longer funny when they're falling into your kids. I'd say the only real difference I see now, is that instead of small groups partaking in a drinking mission, there's now enormous parties, all wearing their custom tshirts, proclaiming their want to get drunk in Epcot. If I see a group of 'Round the Worlders' I generally try to head in the opposite direction.

This could be the case, I didn't come to Disney during my crazy drinking days but more than likely I would have taken full advantage of the park allowing me to walk around with a variety of drinks all day and bring the magic to a whole new level.
 
all wearing their custom tshirts, proclaiming their want to get drunk in Epcot.

It is definitely more "organized" now.:)

My favorite shirt so far was worn by a group of young ladies that said "KEEP CALM AND HELP THEM GET TO CANADA"!lol:)

They were only in Japan when I saw them-doubt they made Canada!lol:)
 
I'm wondering here, as a parent and a grandparent, why is it so awful if kids see someone drunk? I always use it as an example of what NOT to do when you drink. How stupid you look, how obnoxious you are, how sick you are, etc. I've never hidden that behavior. My adult DD barely touches any alcohol. Not because she saw that behavior all her life but because she doesn't like it. I guess I just don't see the issue if kids see it.

Even if there is bad language that is also something I've never felt kids should be sheltered from. Again, it's a learning tool as something that makes you look dumb

I don't think it's a matter of my little one seeing anything, we've made the point here that you see this sort of behavior in places outside of Disney, it's a question of expectation. If I go into Chucky Cheese and see a few out of control rowdy teenagers, I'll leave 'cause I know my daughter won't have a good time in there. I went in there knowing this may well happen and if it does, we'll go elsewhere. I don't have this same expectation when going into a Disney park.

We don't completely shelter our little one from every naughty behavior in the world, but we avoid them whenever possible (I think most parents would if given the choice). Yes, we point out that that's not the way you behave when around others and if the person/party in question is creating an issue for you, politely bring it to their attention and if that doesn't work let someone in the park know and just move...but why should we have to move?? Why isn't there something already in place to have this person, who is creating an issue for us and others, be inconvenienced rather than me?

I don't hold this expectation in every aspect of life, but when I come to Disney I do. I said above that maybe it's my expectations that need to shift and not the park itself.

Because drunks are good for nothing thieving heathens.

Wow, I really hope this wasn't the vibe I was giving when I brought this up. That's not at all what I was trying to say.
 


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