What do you think about this statement?

[perla75]

Wow, what a coincidence. At church I started a book club study and we're reading Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. I haven't purchased the book yet and found this sample chapter on line which speaks to the debate that has opened up here:

Both perspectives
are faith perspectives, built on systems of belief. The person who
says we are here by chance and there is no greater meaning has just as many
beliefs as the person who says there’s a creator. Maybe even more.
Think about some of the words that are used in these kinds of discussions, one
of the most common being the phrase “open-minded”. Often the person with
spiritual convictions is seen as close-minded and others are seen as openminded.
What is fascinating to me is that at the center of the Christian faith is
the assumption that this life isn’t all there is. That there is more to life than the
material. That existence is not limited to what we can see, touch, measure,
taste, hear, and observe. One of the central assertions of the Christian worldview
is that there is “more”. Those who oppose this insist that this is all there
is, that only what we can measure and observe and see with our eyes is real.
There is nothing else. Which perspective is more “closed-minded”? Which perspective
is more “open”?
An atheist is a person of tremendous faith. In our discussions about the things
that matter most then, we aren’t talking about faith or no faith. Belief or no
belief. We are talking about faith in what? Belief in what? The real question
isn’t whether we have it or not, but what we have put it in.
Everybody follows somebody. All of us make decisions every day about what is
important, how to treat people, and what to do with our lives. These decisions
come from what we believe about every aspect of our existence. And we got
our beliefs from somewhere. We have been formed, every one of us, by this
complicated mix of people and places and things. Parents and teachers and
artists and scientists and mentors – we are each taking all of these influences
and living our lives according to which teachings we have made our own. Some
insist that they aren’t influenced by any person or any religion, that they think
for themselves. And that’s an honorable perspective. The problem is they got
that perspective from . . . somebody. They’re following somebody even if they
insist it is themselves they are following.
Everybody is following somebody. Everybody has faith in something and
somebody.
We are all believers.

That was beautiful-thank you for sharing

 

[KikiFan]

So those that do believe are dumb men? I will be sure to tell my daughter's cardiologist, heart surgeon, neurosurgeon, etc., several who attend my church what stupid men they are.

HoLY COW! if I knew my response was so "controversial" I would have checked back in this thread. Are you kidding me? Lady, I expressed my opinion. I didn't call you or anyone else stupid.

I don't waste a moments time worrying what you, your cardiologist, heart surgeon, neurosurgeon, or all the tinkers on earth believe. It's your right to believe what you want to believe. Just like it's my right to have my own beliefs. I prefer to spend my time living up to my beliefs - then worrying about what others think.

There was nothing defensive or confusing about my statement. She said his reply was smart, so if that is the case, people who do believe there is a hell and a Satan, must be dumb. I am sure if I supported your opinions, I would be considered neither defensive or confusing.

I didn't attack you or even bring you up. The OP asked our opinion on an event. I agreed with the man and how he handled it. I thought he was smart for handling the way he did. period. PERIOD. any implied attacks or insults say more about you and your own insecurity about your beliefs.

I agree that this was a very defensive & unnecessary comment to the previous poster. He/she was not calling ANYONE stupid.

Thank you.

No I did not. Your opinion is not fact. And you know darn well if she felt the person who felt that way was smart, then she would think a person who did not feel the same way would be the opposite. Stop trying to cause an argument. I have just as much right to my opinion as you do yours and it is ridiculous for you to try to browbeat me.

Actually I don't waste any time thinking about what others believe. I don't have the mentality that mine are the only one true beliefs. I believe in One God, Many paths. Your belief in hell would not be the reason I would question your intelligence.

And? Because you agree with her it makes her statement true? That is your opinion and I made mine. The fact that you agree with her does not invalidate my opinion. If the two of you do not like differing opinions and cannot read them without responding with derogatory and untrue statements. I suggest you stop participating in boards such as this. The only unnecessary comments where the ones that you and perla made, insulting me for making an opinion.

You are the one making the accusations, I suggest you see a mental health professional because you are having delusions. I posted a thought on the topic and YOU ARE THE ONE THAT WENT OFF AND STARTED ACCUSING PEOPLE OF THINGS because you did not like the thought. I suggest you take a break from the boards.

You might want to reread this thread. I stated my opinion. That's all.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I see nothing wrong with the original statement in the OP.

If that's what they guy believes and that is what he wants to teach his child, I fail to see why it should be any of my business or why I'd need to have an opinion.

 

[1001 Ghosts]

The concept that the devil and hell are real to begin with are nothing more than creations of someone's imagination within the parameters of a specific religious cult(s), and that in a country where no religious belief can become the law of the land the burden of proof should not fall on someone who instead chooses to think logically and who understands that these concepts are indeed fiction and nothing more than fairy tales.

 

[luvsJack]

The concept that the devil and hell are real to begin with are nothing more than creations of someone's imagination within the parameters of a specific religious cult(s), and that in a country where no religious belief can become the law of the land the burden of proof should not fall on someone who instead chooses to think logically and who understands that these concepts are indeed fiction and nothing more than fairy tales.

I am quite able to think logically and am quiet able to understand the difference between fiction and reality, thank you very much. I also believe that Satan and hell do exist. I know that God exists and I know that Jesus is my savior. I wasn't aware that anyone was saying that those who don't believe had to prove anything. Please, do not speak down to those of us who believe in any and/or all of what is stated in the Bible.

The thread asked for an opinion of what the man told his son. The man gave the child his opinion; right or wrong. I, personally, think he could have handled the question in a better way for the child but I would assume he did answer it honestly to his belief system. And it seems to me that is what the other posters on this thread have been doing also. No need to sound insulting.

 

[metalis4ever]

The concept that the devil and hell are real to begin with are nothing more than creations of someone's imagination within the parameters of a specific religious cult(s), and that in a country where no religious belief can become the law of the land the burden of proof should not fall on someone who instead chooses to think logically and who understands that these concepts are indeed fiction and nothing more than fairy tales.

Absolutely Perfect!!!

This response reminds me of when Dr. Richard Dawkins was asked a question by a student while speaking at Liberty U.

Student : "What if you're wrong?"

Richard Dawkins: "Well what if I'm wrong? I mean anybody could be wrong we could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the Pink Unicorn, and the Flying Tea Pot. You happened to have been brought up I presume in the Christian Faith, you know what its like not to believe in a particular Faith because you're not a Muslim, you're not a Hindu, why aren't you a Hindu? because you happened to have been brought up in America not in India. If you had been brought up in India you would be a Hindu, if you had been brought up in Denmark in the time of the Vikings you would be believing in Wothan and Thor, if you had been brought up in classical Greece you would be believing in Zeus, if you were brought up in Central Africa you would be believing in the Great Ju Ju of the Mountain. There's no particular reason to pick on the Judeo-Christian God in which by the sheerest accident you happen to have been brought up and ask me the question what if I'm wrong? What if you're wrong about the Great Ju Ju at the bottom of the sea? "

 

[bicker]

The concept that the devil and hell are real to begin with are nothing more than creations of someone's imagination within the parameters of a specific religious cult(s), and that in a country where no religious belief can become the law of the land the burden of proof should not fall on someone who instead chooses to think logically and who understands that these concepts are indeed fiction and nothing more than fairy tales.

We were just discussing this, this morning, in another forum. Someone pointed out that "knowledge" actually breaks up into two categories: Perceptible knowledge and intellectual knowledge. I knew exactly what they meant. Perception is a matter of physical reality, demonstrable by logical and repeatable methods. Intellectual knowledge is created knowledge -- more specifically, knowledge created by humans (at least, so far).

The most important distinction between perceptible knowledge and created knowledge is that perceptible knowledge is universally applicable, while created knowledge is applicable by subscription. In other words, a bit of created knowledge that is part of your reality is not necessarily applicable to everyone -- it is not necessarily a part of their reality.

 

[Uncle Remus]

We were just discussing this, this morning, in another forum. Someone pointed out that "knowledge" actually breaks up into two categories: Perceptible knowledge and intellectual knowledge. I knew exactly what they meant. Perception is a matter of physical reality, demonstrable by logical and repeatable methods. Intellectual knowledge is created knowledge -- more specifically, knowledge created by humans (at least, so far).

The most important distinction between perceptible knowledge and created knowledge is that perceptible knowledge is universally applicable, while created knowledge is applicable by subscription. In other words, a bit of created knowledge that is part of your reality is not necessarily applicable to everyone -- it is not necessarily a part of their reality.

Re: In other words, a bit of created knowledge that is part of your reality is not necessarily applicable to everyone -- it is not necessarily a part of their reality.

Kinda like: what color is the sky in your world?

 

[bicker]

Hehe... well, the color of the sky is perceptible knowledge -- it is a universal truth. What you call the color, though, might be intellectual knowledge.

 

[GeorgeG]

Followers of any religion, cult or practice believe what they do because it's been told to them consistantly from an early age, kinda like brainwashing. In some cases, believers and non-believers alike open their minds to other possibilities and sometimes embrace new concepts while some stick to what they've been told all their lives. While parts of just about any religion can point to historical facts, much of that has been interpreted to suit the ideals of the mortal humans who wish to control others. If you're happy with what you believe, fine. However, not everyone believes the same. That's okay, too. We need to accept that not everyone will believe the same and not judge what others choose to believe.

 

[luvsJack]

Followers of any religion, cult or practice believe what they do because it's been told to them consistantly from an early age, kinda like brainwashing. In some cases, believers and non-believers alike open their minds to other possibilities and sometimes embrace new concepts while some stick to what they've been told all their lives. While parts of just about any religion can point to historical facts, much of that has been interpreted to suit the ideals of the mortal humans who wish to control others. If you're happy with what you believe, fine. However, not everyone believes the same. That's okay, too. We need to accept that not everyone will believe the same and not judge what others choose to believe.

I disagree with the beginning of your post, but agree with the last part.

I was not told anything from an early age and did not attend church until I was an adult and had children. My parents did not attend church when I was young. My belief system comes from my own experiences and what I have witnessed in a close family member. I am not brain-washed nor am I controlled by anyone.

But I agree than everyone should accept that others do not believe the same as they do. But that has to go for non-Christians or non-believers in God as well as Christians and those that do believe.

If you (the general you) do not believe in God or Jesus or Heaven or Hell, just say so. No one has to refer to another persons beliefs as mythical or fantasy or fairy tales. It is just a matter of referring to another's beliefs with respect.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I disagree with the beginning of your post, but agree with the last part.

I was not told anything from an early age and did not attend church until I was an adult and had children. My parents did not attend church when I was young. My belief system comes from my own experiences and what I have witnessed in a close family member. I am not brain-washed nor am I controlled by anyone.

But I agree than everyone should accept that others do not believe the same as they do. But that has to go for non-Christians or non-believers in God as well as Christians and those that do believe.

If you (the general you) do not believe in God or Jesus or Heaven or Hell, just say so. No one has to refer to another persons beliefs as mythical or fantasy or fairy tales. It is just a matter of referring to another's beliefs with respect.

Well, some of those beliefs are myths and fairy tales to some of us.

I don't see any reason why any of us should limit what we say so you can feel better about what you believe.

Heck, I've been told I'm going to "Hell" because I like Santa Claus.
I didn't freak out over it, I just figure it was someone who doesn't like Santa.

 

[ols386]

Well, some of those beliefs are myths and fairy tales to some of us.

I don't see any reason why any of us should limit what we say so you can feel better about what you believe.

Heck, I've been told I'm going to "Hell" because I like Santa Claus.
I didn't freak out over it, I just figure it was someone who doesn't like Santa.

But when you refer to someone's beliefs as "fairy tales", it has a condescending tone to it, and I think some people might find that insulting. If it doesn't bother you to insult someone, then you can say what you want.

 

[metalis4ever]

Well, some of those beliefs are myths and fairy tales to some of us.

I don't see any reason why any of us should limit what we say so you can feel better about what you believe.

Heck, I've been told I'm going to "Hell" because I like Santa Claus.
I didn't freak out over it, I just figure it was someone who doesn't like Santa.

Exactly plus Anthropologically speaking all Religions/Cults are Mythology and/or Folklore.

I agree who doesn't like Santa Claus?...Hell I'm an Atheist and even I love Santa!! The Easter Bunny is a punk though, taunting us with those ridiculous eggs!!!!

 

[Uncle Remus]

But when you refer to someone's beliefs as "fairy tales", it has a condescending tone to it, and I think some people might find that insulting. If it doesn't bother you to insult someone, then you can say what you want.

Really?

I guess that depends on what fairy tales you listen to or read, I've read some mighty fine fairy tales.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Exactly plus Anthropologically speaking all Religions/Cults are Mythology and/or Folklore.

I agree who doesn't like Santa Claus?...Hell I'm an Atheist and even I love Santa!! The Easter Bunny is a punk though, taunting us with those ridiculous eggs!!!!

You know what they say about Academia.

I just don't understand why religious believers believe they are exempt from social scrutiny or critique.

 

[ols386]

Really?

I guess that depends on what fairy tales you listen to or read, I've read some mighty fine fairy tales.

Well, for me personally, I don't exactly appreciate it if someone tells me my religious beliefs are fairy tales. I would feel like they were talking down to me, I guess, is the best way to explain it. Maybe it wouldn't bother some people, but it would bug me just a bit.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Well, for me personally, I don't exactly appreciate it if someone tells me my religious beliefs are fairy tales. I would feel like they were talking down to me, I guess, is the best way to explain it. Maybe it wouldn't bother some people, but it would bug me just a bit.

Best remain religious coz the non believers have a bad time too.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Well, for me personally, I don't exactly appreciate it if someone tells me my religious beliefs are fairy tales. I would feel like they were talking down to me, I guess, is the best way to explain it. Maybe it wouldn't bother some people, but it would bug me just a bit.

Maybe this will make ya feel better.

Given the increasing religiosity of American culture, it's perhaps not too surprising that a new study out this month finds that Americans are not fond of atheists and trust them less than they do other groups. The depth of this distrust is a bit astonishing nonetheless.

Distrusting Atheists

 

[ols386]

Maybe this will make ya feel better.




Distrusting Atheists

I don't dislike or distrust athiests, I just don't agree with their belief, but thanks for the