What do you think about this statement?

[ols386]

The very first line of my post just talked about "myth". The post makes that very clear: I didn't say anything in support of "fairy tale", at all.

You will see that I have been fastidious about that throughout this thread, and as I pointed out, way back in #145 I made my position clear.

I'm sorry you were confused by the reply. I hope that what I've said here in this message cleared it up for you.

That is incorrect, because:I do believe in God.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say YOU do or do not believe in God, I was trying to speak in a general sense (not YOU personally, but someone who may not believe in God). Anyway, thanks for your reply.

 

[bicker]

Essentially, the question is: For someone who believes in God, but who believe the Bible is myth, what would you have them say.

 

[luvsJack]

Wow! I was not aware that this thread was still going! Been busy at work, ain't it a shame when actual work gets in the way of dis-ing?

I have thought about this though, really thought about what it is about those terms that insults me. And its the feeling of being talked down to or that the one saying "its just a fairy tale" is somehow putting themselves out there as being superior to me or any believer.

So, with that said; I will agree that "myth" is not as offensive as "fairy tale". "Fairy tale" makes it sound as though we have the mind of a child and are being led to believe these ridiculous stories.

If someone does not believe in the Bible, but does believe in God (like Bicker); I would prefer it to be called a "story" but can concede to "myth".

Just out of curiosity, Bicker, you believe in God but you believe the Bible to be completely false? I mean, you don't see it as coming from God at all?

 

[Goofyluver]

Wow! I was not aware that this thread was still going! Been busy at work, ain't it a shame when actual work gets in the way of dis-ing?

I have thought about this though, really thought about what it is about those terms that insults me. And its the feeling of being talked down to or that the one saying "its just a fairy tale" is somehow putting themselves out there as being superior to me or any believer.

So, with that said; I will agree that "myth" is not as offensive as "fairy tale". "Fairy tale" makes it sound as though we have the mind of a child and are being led to believe these ridiculous stories.

If someone does not believe in the Bible, but does believe in God (like Bicker); I would prefer it to be called a "story" but can concede to "myth".

When I say that my feelings are that the belief in a higher power is comparable to fairy tales and mythology, I'm not talking down to ANYONE. I'm merely expressing my belief system.

I find it funny that you say you would "concede" to the belief in God being called a "myth".

Sounds a bit like censorship to me. And frankly...that makes me

 

[luvsJack]

When I say that my feelings are that the belief in a higher power is comparable to fairy tales and mythology, I'm not talking down to ANYONE. I'm merely expressing my belief system.

I find it funny that you say you would "concede" to the belief in God being called a "myth".

Sounds a bit like censorship to me. And frankly...that makes me

Oh, good grief. That is not the way i meant it at all. I just meant that although I would prefer (me personally, just my personal opinion) the word "story" that myth is not as bad as fairy tale. Regardless of your particular intention when using the words, others have used them as a way of talking down to others.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think I was probably offended the first time I read "fairy tales" here on the DIS. I have never heard anyone is RL say that to me or anyone else although I do not doubt Uncle remus and I have a friend who I can imagine saying it).

But myth, fairy tale, whatever really does not bother me anymore. I think it seems probably like when a child believes in a fairy tale to them so that doesn't bother me. I think Santa sounds an awful lot like God so that doesn't bother me. I think people who were churched when young, grow up and get away from church and "think for themselves" and decide they do not believe in God refer to all of it as a fairy tale because they grew up and out of it just like Santa, the Easter Bunny, whatever they used to believe in when young. So, when you factor those things in and knowing that we know not everyone is going to believe, it really doesn't bother me.

Usually, I'm just glad they thought through it and made their choice. I believe it is one we all make in one way or another.

It only bothers me if someone is uncomfortable with their choice. It seems to be an easy choice for some of us to make. For some, rejection comes easily and quickly. For some, acceptance comes easily and quickly. But for others who struggle with choice for years and years, my heart goes out to them.

 

[Goofyluver]

Oh, good grief. That is not the way i meant it at all. I just meant that although I would prefer (me personally, just my personal opinion) the word "story" that myth is not as bad as fairy tale. Regardless of your particular intention when using the words, others have used them as a way of talking down to others.

How do you know what a person's intentions are?

Here's the thing. Your being offended is directly tied to your existing religious beliefs, correct? It really has nothing to do with any non-believer and the descriptive terms they use to define their own beliefs. I promise you.

 

[Uncle Remus]

ftr, I spent the day today with 3 close friends, Christians, we had a hoot of a time. We got to jaw jackin' internet drama 'n I related to them about this particular board 'n whether or not I'm pretty much the same person in real life as I am on the board, what I say here, I say in real life face to face with folks (only difference is I'm a li'l more colorful in real life).

I asked 'em what they thought about my thinkin' their God beliefs are fairy tales. They said it was fine by them coz they know my thoughts are a li'l more complex than that simple statement since we've had indepth conversations about right and wrong, good and evil, etc. and that they certainly weren't offended in the slightest. They also know how much I value fairy tales and legends since I studied that stuff in that higher learnin' place called a university.

I told 'em that some folks on this board were offended by my beliefs about their beliefs and get this, they wanted to know what did those folks think an atheist could believe about a Christian's belief? Heck, I'm an atheist, what the heck do y'all think I believe about God?

Course, then we got to talkin' about that's half the fun about these kinda boards, watchin' to see who jumps in first with the "woe is me, I'm so offended by..."


Anyway, we had a great afternoon, laughed a lot, enjoyed a real good fellowship 'n decided we just ain't offended about anythin' these days, blessed to have good friends.

 

[luvsJack]

How do you know what a person's intentions are?

Here's the thing. Your being offended is directly tied to your existing religious beliefs, correct? It really has nothing to do with any non-believer and the descriptive terms they use to define their own beliefs. I promise you.

Its in the words they use. Its in the smilies they use. Read more than one post and its easy to tell. Can you not tell when it is someone's intention to be sarcastic?

I believe in God, I believe Jesus Christ is my Savior, I believe the Bible to be true. In short, those are my "existing religious beliefs". Calling the God I love a "fairy tale" is insulting to Him and to me. My being offended is directly tied to those two words. I don't just go around saying "I believe in God", I live that belief system every day. Active in church, dd is active in church, read my Bible everyday, pray everyday. When you call it a fairy tale, you are insulting my life.

I have already told you that I have had many conversation with people IRL about their non-belief in God and about what they do believe and I have shared with them my beliefs, read them scripture, etc. etc. They NEVER use the words "fairy tale". NEVER. We have interesting, civil, and mutually respectful discussions.


Jeesh, I never intended for this discussion to be still going about whether or not something is insulting. I guess when I originally made the statement, I thought I was just saying how I felt; I didn't realize that how someone else feels about something would even be up for debate. Its how I feel. TO ME it is an insult. If you do not intend it that way, fine. It is just the way I FEEL.

Uncle Remus--I really do promise you that I do not go around looking for something to be offended by. As I said before, I am the most easy going person I know. In fact, at work everyone says the same thing.

 

[Goofyluver]

Its in the words they use. Its in the smilies they use. Read more than one post and its easy to tell. Can you not tell when it is someone's intention to be sarcastic?

I guess I don't understand the sensitivity surrounding this?

When you call it a fairy tale, you are insulting my life.

Not really. It's not about you. At all.

We have interesting, civil, and mutually respectful discussions.

I think Uncle Remus says it best...

Heck, I'm an atheist, what the heck do y'all think I believe about God?

I don't expect you to sugarcoat your opinions for my benefit. And I guess I just refuse to sugarcoat mine.

 

[Shelton123]

We're all forgetting that fairytales can come true! Oh that's right, this is the part of the board where people just join to fight, and don't care about Disney at all! I forgot about that for a sec.

 

[luvsJack]

I never asked you to "sugarcoat" your beliefs. I told you how I felt and I was told why I shouldn't feel that way, it seems that it is me that is supposed to "sugarcoat" my feelings.

Is this the only subject you would feel that way on? If, on another thread about another subject, someone told you that something you said was insulting; would you then proceed to tell them why they shouldn't feel that way? You don't get to determine how something makes someone feel, regardless of your intentions.

As for Uncle Remus's question: I know what you believe; it is not WHAT you believe that I ever objected to, it is how you express it.

Can you express it another way? Yes. I KNOW that you can, because I have heard it expressed another way.

You can continue to believe whatever floats your boat. I don't care. What you believe or don't believe is immaterial to me. That is something you don't seem to get. It is the words. Just that. Not the belief behind them.

If I was insulted by someone's beliefs, I would have long thrown out the group of ds's friends that just left the house. What you or anyone believes has nothing to do with it.

And, please. It does not take sensitivity to know when someone is being sarcastic.

 

[Goofyluver]

You can continue to believe whatever floats your boat. I don't care. What you believe or don't believe is immaterial to me. That is something you don't seem to get. It is the words. Just that. Not the belief behind them.

And for the most part, I'd agree with ya'. Words are sometimes intended to sting or insult.

In this case, these words are used as a descriptive tool in order to describe a belief system. That's all. Just that.

 

[luvsJack]

And for the most part, I'd agree with ya'. Words are sometimes intended to sting or insult.

In this case, these words are used as a descriptive tool in order to describe a belief system. That's all. Just that.

And so, we have found something we can agree upon.

 

[Buckalew11]

ftr, I spent the day today with 3 close friends, Christians, we had a hoot of a time. We got to jaw jackin' internet drama 'n I related to them about this particular board 'n whether or not I'm pretty much the same person in real life as I am on the board, what I say here, I say in real life face to face with folks (only difference is I'm a li'l more colorful in real life).

I asked 'em what they thought about my thinkin' their God beliefs are fairy tales. They said it was fine by them coz they know my thoughts are a li'l more complex than that simple statement since we've had indepth conversations about right and wrong, good and evil, etc. and that they certainly weren't offended in the slightest. They also know how much I value fairy tales and legends since I studied that stuff in that higher learnin' place called a university.

I told 'em that some folks on this board were offended by my beliefs about their beliefs and get this, they wanted to know what did those folks think an atheist could believe about a Christian's belief? Heck, I'm an atheist, what the heck do y'all think I believe about God?

Course, then we got to talkin' about that's half the fun about these kinda boards, watchin' to see who jumps in first with the "woe is me, I'm so offended by..."


Anyway, we had a great afternoon, laughed a lot, enjoyed a real good fellowship 'n decided we just ain't offended about anythin' these days, blessed to have good friends.

I think the difference for a lot of people goes something like this:

Those Christians friends of yours know you. They love you. You're a lovable kind of guy.
Internet people are strangers. We don't know them so we don't have that connection with them. I've been reading you for so long (and YOURS was the first movie I ever saw in the theater alone without an adult with me and I loved your movie!!) that I listen (read) your words differently than some others around these boards.

But for me, I think knowing someone, loving someone, liking someone makes all the difference. It is like when I have run into someone in SS who is cold hearted towards a G/L person. I tell them it is easily said right now because you don't have a friend or family member who is G/L. But once you do, you feel totally different about that cold hearted crap.

 

[bicker]

If someone does not believe in the Bible, but does believe in God (like Bicker); I would prefer it to be called a "story" but can concede to "myth".

Thanks for that.

Just out of curiosity, Bicker, you believe in God but you believe the Bible to be completely false?

I'll refer you back to my message, a couple of pages ago:

... the term "myth" actually means something closer to what you believe than the last statement you proposed:

"myth - a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation"​

(Note the highlighted word.)

(Emphasis in red just added. The bolding was there before, and it was the bolding that that last sentence was referring to as the "highlighted word".)

I believe the Bible contains a combination of truth and fiction, crafted together to be a compelling driver of certain behavior.

I mean, you don't see it as coming from God at all?

If you understood God the way I do, you'd understand why that question is an impossibility. The question assumes a premise that violates my understanding of God -- that violates my understanding of reality. Therefore, I cannot craft an answer for you. Perhaps you can ask your question differently?