Well... MagicBands and FP+, Our Experience

[pampam]

OP, I just want to let you know I appreciate you posting your experiences. I like the way you began this thread, to keep it free from arguing trolls. You explained everything very well, and gave us insight to what could be wrong with the system, or ideas how to improve it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Here's the thing.

The only reason they are having FP capacity problems is this: there are too many people in the park for the number of activities available. This is why you can't walk without tripping over people and on many attractions you can't enter without waiting in some kind of line (even FP).

No matter what kind of shell games they try to play with a limited resource (ride capacity), it's still a limited resource. They can only put X number of people per hour through any particular ride. (We overheard a fascinating conversation between the PoTC CMs who were very upset that management was nagging them to put more people through faster. The ride was stopping HALFWAY through when we were there, because the boats were backed up trying to get people unloaded. They had the entire track practically full of boats and the CMs were not happy about the guest experience.)

Another thing they do now that they barely did 12+ years ago is characters. You used to hardly see characters in the parks - it was impromptu whether they'd appear, and if you found one you felt quite fortunate. It certainly wasn't a big list printed on a schedule anywhere. Now there are scheduled character lines all over the place. That occupies a certain number of guests too, who would otherwise be in a ride queue somewhere.

I have no idea what the actual "numbers through the gate" figure is on a per day basis. All I know is they seem to be selling more tickets than they have room for. All the rest of the policy and behavior stems from that.

It really does boil down to this. Every company wants growth and new revenue. Especially a company like Disney with such high fixed overhead costs. So they took a look at the parks to see how they could continue adding more and more bodies. They saw a fork in the road for dealing with that desired growth. They could add more rides...... or find a way to shuffle around the bodies trying to wring every ounce of capacity out of what already existed. They made their choice very clear when they announced they were not interested in an arms race of rides. I really think they chose the wrong path. They went the direction of the "shell game". Xie nailed it with that label.

 

[wdwlver]

OP-thanks for a very insightful well thought out review of your issues. Your post was so spot on I sincerely hope you send a copy to wdw, they absolutely need to hear what guests are having to deal with on their very expensive vacations.

 

[morethananyonex]

WDW should consider what a theme park here in Canada has done, if you get caught cutting in line or jumping into the "Fastpass" line illegally, you get kicked out of the park...this theme park I am talking about also is $70 a day to get in. It has really changed the dynamic of the line up. I also noticed last summer while there, they had CSR watching the lines for such "high fives and giggles" after getting away with murder. It is nice to know that the CSR's are watching and getting rid of the CHEATERS ruining everyone elses day.

Maybe WDW can take a hint and realize that their CSR's should have a backbone and not let sad "fake" stories get by without a printout of their FP+ assignments. I plan on having a hard copy of my selections with me incase of dispute.

What happened to a world of honest people? Seriously people, cheating the system does not help and comes back to bite you in the a**. Changes of policy and procedures are usually caused by people taking advantage of the system...(hence the new RFID cups at the resorts)

Except your hard copy can easily be faked too. That's the problem with this system. There is no way for CMs to be 100% certain that you are telling the truth. How hard would it be for someone to print out a hard copy of their FP+ reservations and then go change one of them after? How hard would it be to print out a hard copy that shows ghost FP+ that Disney's own system creates?

Sure, they can check your bands with an iPad. Problem is, sometimes there are legitimate issues going on there and the guest actually isn't lying. They cannot take a hard stance on this. There are too many issues on their side, and guests absolutely should not be punished for it.

I agree with PPs, it's going to be a very hard problem to fix. It's just the nature of relying on technology instead of paper. It's even harder because Disney has a long history of giving guests whatever they want if they cry loud enough. They aren't going to start accusing guests of lying over a system that could just as likely be causing the problem.

 

[Mainebound]

Thanks, OP for such a helpful post.

It helped me put my finger one one thing that has been bothering me: paying a lot of money for park hopping but being restricted to fastpasses in only one park. I understand a lot of what Disney is doing from a shareholder perspective (locking guests into "ride appointments" helps keep them on Disney property, to spend $$), but I fail to see the advantage -- to anyone at all -- of this policy of one park for fastpasses per day.

We did not pay for parkhopping this year as a result.

 

[mom2rtk]

Except your hard copy can easily be faked too. That's the problem with this system. There is no way for CMs to be 100% certain that you are telling the truth. How hard would it be for someone to print out a hard copy of their FP+ reservations and then go change one of them after? How hard would it be to print out a hard copy that shows ghost FP+ that Disney's own system creates?

Sure, they can check your bands with an iPad. Problem is, sometimes there are legitimate issues going on there and the guest actually isn't lying. They cannot take a hard stance on this. There are too many issues on their side, and guests absolutely should not be punished for it.

I agree with PPs, it's going to be a very hard problem to fix. It's just the nature of relying on technology instead of paper. It's even harder because Disney has a long history of giving guests whatever they want if they cry loud enough. They aren't going to start accusing guests of lying over a system that could just as likely be causing the problem.

Honestly, this is exactly the sort of fallout they should have anticipated when basing such a huge piece of the park experience on IT systems known to be very buggy.

Surely they can't be surprised how this has played out.

 

[recmouse]

See, here is the deal. I don't think at WDW that we are their bread and butter. We may be somewhere in their cabinet, but unless you are a DVC owner, I think those of us that go once or twice a year are but a speck on their radar. If you own a DVC property, well, they've already got you locked down, don't they. Other than the upkeep on your property, they don't really owe you anything parks wise.

California is a different deal. Disneyland's bread and butter is absolutely their local day guests. They know this, and they cater to them. Considering that massive system wide changes at any corporation are often tested at the smallest site they own, it's interesting that Disneyland has not seen any of these "technological advancements", like WDW has.

I'm always amazed whenever I go how many people honestly have no idea what a FP even is. Every single time I've been at least 5 people in each park have asked me why I'm getting in the FP line, what that thing I'm getting is, what am I holding, etc. I think WDW's bread and butter is the first time visitors. We are all lucky to be able to vacation as often as we do, as there are a lot of people who go once in their lives. I'm the only person I know who has been to WDW as much as I have. I know lots of people in my daily life who have been once. I know very, very few who have been twice. I'm the only person I know who goes yearly. That is Disney's bottom line, those people that dream of taking their little ones to WDW, go once, and are done. Those one and done people, the South American tour groups, and the wealthy people from Europe and Asia who come and stay for two weeks to a month at a time, THAT is Disney's bread and butter. And, to be honest, if you are staying for two weeks to a month 3 FP's a day isn't that big of a deal. They will at some point during their stay be able to ride what they want, multiple times. People like me, who go for 5 days, are the ones who are truly distressed. But maybe therin lies the point? The longer you stay, the better your ride experience will be.

It shouldn't matter how many times you've been to Disney... everyone should be offered the same magical experience. I'm a DVC owner who never thought I would be one. Way back when, when it took all I could to go to Disney, as it does for many people today - whether they're Disney's bread and butter or not - we all should get the same experience.

I agree that many people had/have no idea what the deal was with Fastpasses. For those of us veterans that were able to get 5 - 6 fastpasses a day, the new system is frustrating.

I'm going the first week in February and am very leary... I'm trying to stay positive and see how it all works out. These trip reports are not making it easy.

Thank you OP for your lengthy and well written post.

 

[mom2rtk]

Thanks, OP for such a helpful post.

It helped me put my finger one one thing that has been bothering me: paying a lot of money for park hopping but being restricted to fastpasses in only one park. I understand a lot of what Disney is doing from a shareholder perspective (locking guests into "ride appointments" helps keep them on Disney property, to spend $$), but I fail to see the advantage -- to anyone at all -- of this policy of one park for fastpasses per day.

We did not pay for parkhopping this year as a result.

You are probably not the only one considering passing on the hopping option as a result of the FP+ rollout. But I don't think Disney set out to make it that way. I really just think it is a product of the limitations of the system.

 

[Gracedis1]

We had a similar situation at AK on Christmas Eve. Expedition Everest was down when we had our FP+ res. We were told we could wait and use it later if the ride came back on, or use it as an Omni pass for any other ride. We decided to use it for Dinosaur. MDE app said no fast passes were available, but we went to Dinosaur anyway and we got a green mickey head in the fast pass return. We later went back to Everest and it was running again. We didn't have a fast pass anymore so we rode in the single rider line and the wait was less than 10 minutes. AK was very crowded that day and there was a long line at the FP kiosk. Using the app, there were no FP's available for rescheduling by 1 in the afternoon.

 

[recmouse]

Thanks, OP for such a helpful post.

It helped me put my finger one one thing that has been bothering me: paying a lot of money for park hopping but being restricted to fastpasses in only one park. I understand a lot of what Disney is doing from a shareholder perspective (locking guests into "ride appointments" helps keep them on Disney property, to spend $$), but I fail to see the advantage -- to anyone at all -- of this policy of one park for fastpasses per day.

We did not pay for parkhopping this year as a result.

Yes to this!

 

[disney1990]

We were off site guests in December and I felt like a second class citizen at Disney. We have done over 40 trips and the last 10 have been offsite. This December 2013 trip was the worse by far. Based on that trip we won't be coming back; unless, we do stay onsite. That said, your review is not making me thrilled about even doing that now. I'm sure I'll give it a try onsite when the dust all settles, but I know already I won't be coming back as often as we did in the past. I'm looking at a Disney trip every 5 years or so, now, if that.

In the past three years we have expanded our horizons on other vacations and we find ourselves much happier and spending less money than a Disney trip, whether we compare staying onsite or off at Disney.

I'm basically done with Disney World; unless, there are some great deals in the future.

We have a trip planned in June/July 2014 before our cruise. Right now we are supposed to be staying off site and this is a big concern of mine - feeling like a second class citizen. Thinking about changing to on property this trip and then weighing the future depending on changes in the FP+ system to come.

We, too, used to pass on FP- that we were not going to be able to use. Being able to bring that little bit of Magic to somebody else was a good feeling. So sorry this this is no longer possible.

 

[crostorfer]

It shouldn't matter how many times you've been to Disney... everyone should be offered the same magical experience. I'm a DVC owner who never thought I would be one. Way back when, when it took all I could to go to Disney, as it does for many people today - whether they're Disney's bread and butter or not - we all should get the same experience.

I agree that many people had/have no idea what the deal was with Fastpasses. For those of us veterans that were able to get 5 - 6 fastpasses a day, the new system is frustrating.

I'm going the first week in February and am very leary... I'm trying to stay positive and see how it all works out. These trip reports are not making it easy.

Thank you OP for your lengthy and well written post.

I agree that they "should", but now we're getting into could'a, should'a, would'a territory. And really, now we really ARE all getting the same experience if you think about it. It is just a diminished experience for those of us who have been in the past and used the FP- system to it's fullest extent. The brand new, first time visitor will still likely be pleased, as they have no idea what they are missing. The longer stay foriegn visitors will be pleased, because they will get to enjoy everything they want to, as their length of stay will enable ride reservations over multiple days. They'll never miss a headliner. It's those of us who go often, and do shorter stays, that are feeling the pain. There isn't a way around that with this new system, and it stinks for you, me, and everyone else here in the same boat.

As I stated, we aren't the bread and butter. I think that is overwhelmingly obvious. We weren't taken into consideration in the bottom line, and as a DVC owner, they probably don't care if they tee you off. They've already got your buy in and your monthly payment. They have you where they want you.

 

[Sandy Fisher]

Thanks too from me for your informative detailed post. It's the kind of thing we're not seeing much of on the boards. Yes, it was JUST your experience, but it covered a lot of things others have mentioned. And unfortunately, I think there are some who haven't bothered to "report" because there have been so many different posts.
We have what is probably our last trip to Disney planned for early May. I was totally looking forward to it but have had many concerns and questions since this magic band/fast pass plus business began.
It's probably just as well that we'll go one more time and make the best of it. The new technology isn't of interest to me and I had no problems with many years of doing Disney without it. An expensive vacation, even at a place we've loved for many years, isn't meant to be full of so many aggravations. Whether they can be fixed or not, I don't know.
Sure hope so.
Thanks again.

 

[rt2dz]

I appreciate the tone and information in this thread. It's really helpful as I'm heading down in a couple of days. I'm very interested in seeing how this experience goes. It's a short trip with only two of us, but it will determine our long trip with everyone at Thanksgiving's future: stay as-is, modified in some way or cancelled (for a different trip).

 

[recmouse]

As I stated, we aren't the bread and butter. I think that is overwhelmingly obvious. We weren't taken into consideration in the bottom line, and as a DVC owner, they probably don't care if they tee you off. They've already got your buy in and your monthly payment. They have you where they want you.

Yep! And a lot of DVC owners feel that way!

 

[surferdave]

Yep! And a lot of DVC owners feel that way!

I've always suspected that being a DVC member is a lot like already being under contract to Direct TV, Dish Network, AT&T or Verizon. You get to feel unappreciated watching them make offers and cater to potential new customers with new equipment, services, better deals or rates, but they will not offer them to you. I know it's not entirely synonymous but I see the same frustration sometimes.

 

[PrincessTone]

Our family stayed on-site for a week in December. The MB's were convenient for purchases, but not much else. Changing FP+ reservations via the app while in the park was very frustrating as it would often tell us "no other experiences were available for the time slot". If we missed a FP+ window, we were simply out of luck as the system would not let us pick something new stating that "we had reached our FP+ limit" weather we rode the ride or not...

My advise for future trip goers...
--get to the parks at rope drop or schedule a breakfast to get early park entry. You can walk on many of the rides with little to no wait (except of course the ever popular Toy Story Mania in which case a FP+ will save you a very long wait).
--make your FP+ reservations for later in the day when the SB lines are longer.
--if you get park hopper, make all your FP+ reservations for the 2nd park you are going to. Because like stated earlier, if you get to the first park at opening SB lines won't be that bad....

As for our future WDW plans, I'm not sure. We love Disney. We love the message of "dreams come true" and all the rest of it. But being over scheduled and tied to cell phones that you pray don't run out of power makes me feel a bit like Chevy Chase in Vacation: Disney is a quest for fun that while good intentioned, can be maddening at the same time.

 

[Missyrose]

I've always suspected that being a DVC member is a lot like already being under contract to Direct TV, Dish Network, AT&T or Verizon. You get to feel unappreciated watching them make offers and cater to potential new customers with new equipment, services, better deals or rates, but they will not offer them to you. I know it's not entirely synonymous but I see the same frustration sometimes.

Bingo! When they offer perks to DVC members, it isn't to make current members' experiences better. It's to give the DVC salespeople more tools to use to sell points to new members.

 

[FFerret]

Just came back on Wed from a fun but frozen WDW time.

Darn magic bands worked about half the time entering the parks.

I had some SERIOUS trouble no one else in my party did getting the mickey head to touch. Got ticked off but tried to hide it when the gelato server in France kept telling me over and over to touch the mickey head to the device. Yes. I know that. SO FRUSTRATING.

Got so bad Mr. FFerret grabbed my wrist at Toy Story Mania. Very less than magical, and so completely unnecessary for Disney to have the wrist formed that way.

 

[sjbond]

We just got back from a 9 day Christmas trip to WDW. This was our 5th trip in the past 7 1/2 years and, because we have no choice but to go during busy times, we are very educated about how to successfully deal with the big crowds. We actually liked the magic bands and had few problems with them for park entrance, redeeming FP+, or for purchases. We are very disappointed with the idea of only having 3 tiered passes in one park per day. We love to park hop, especially this time when we stayed at BC, do rope drop, and use far more than 3 fast passes each day. I get the move from paper passes, but why not combine the two systems? My suggestion would be to allow 3 advance passes per day, perhaps as a perk for onsite guests, but then allow all guests to add more fast passes to your band throughout the day, following the same return window policy used for paper fast passes. This would allow us to use the new technology and continue using the touring strategies we have mastered over the years. Obviously they would also need to upgrade the technology and wifi.