Well... MagicBands and FP+, Our Experience

[xie]

We were off site guests in December and I felt like a second class citizen at Disney. We have done over 40 trips and the last 10 have been offsite. This December 2013 trip was the worse by far. Based on that trip we won't be coming back; unless, we do stay onsite. That said, your review is not making me thrilled about even doing that now. I'm sure I'll give it a try onsite when the dust all settles, but I know already I won't be coming back as often as we did in the past. I'm looking at a Disney trip every 5 years or so, now, if that.

In the past three years we have expanded our horizons on other vacations and we find ourselves much happier and spending less money than a Disney trip, whether we compare staying onsite or off at Disney.

I'm basically done with Disney World; unless, there are some great deals in the future.

We haven't stayed offsite in a few years now, but I can see why it would feel that way.

One of my research tasks over the next few weeks is to price out a variety of "we've always wanted to go there" trips and compare them to the amount we spend for a WDW trip. I suspect we're going to want to drag out the passports, even with the outrageous plane fares these days.

One of the things on the consideration list is Adventures by Disney. Because as jacked up as WDW is right now, I still think Disney knows how to do hospitality when they care to do it right, and I read good things about their adventures guided trips.

 

[xie]

You just nailed one of the biggest problems with FP+ that may not have a solution.

We saw exactly what you described. More times than I can count. And whether the guests were telling the truth or not, the fact is the technology is susceptible to doubt.

With paper FP's it is/was pretty easy to determine beyond any arguable doubt whether or not they are valid for today, for this attraction, at this time.

But a blue Mickey? There are any number of excuses, legitimate or not, that can be offered with more foundational support than the limited amount of info the CM can see on the screen. It's what the CM CAN'T see that is used to create the doubt.

Wow. Think about that. And the reaction from the CM's more often than not will be a weary accommodation of the guest's request because, well, they really can't prove otherwise and the greater policy is to not piss off a guest when there is any doubt.

Yes, and that is exactly what the CMs are doing. They can't prove the guest is not telling the truth; the entire FP+ system is too buggy and unreliable. The guy starts telling his "story" and the CM's face kind of freezes into a forced polite expression. Then, rather than engage in a confrontation they wave them on through the queue.

 

[grossmansr]

One of the reasons we abandoned that Everest fast pass that Tusker House delayed us on was that we didn't want to "be that guy". The "guys" we had seen all week giving stories to the FP CMs about how they should be let in with a blue flash on the band because "the bus was late", "the boat was late", "we have passes for this and WHY ISN'T IT WORKING YOUR STUFF IS BROKEN so let us on now", and then high fiving each other down the line afterwards. I considered rushing over there for about 10 seconds before deciding I simply could not have that conversation with a CM without feeling bad.

See, and this would be me too. I would feel bad for the poor CM who has to deal with this issue all day. But that doesn't mean that we're not justified in being "that guy" who demands to ride. After all, losing out on one of your 3 FP's is kind of a big deal.
At least under the old system, if we knew that we couldn't make it in time to use a FP, we could always hand it off to someone who could use it. Then it wouldn't be wasted. And chances are, at some point during our trip, someone would hand us one of their FP's. It was a really neat way to participate in the magic of Disney.
And of course, under the old system, we weren't limited to 3 FP's so if we missed out on 1 it didn't feel like such a big loss.
But I can really relate to your sentiment about not wanting to make the CM's even more miserable than they already are. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave much recourse if you're an unsatisfied customer.

 

[disneylovin24]

Sorry to here that your family had such negative experiences with FP+ and MB, my family was at the Wilderness Lodge at around the same time as you and we had positive experiences.

Just in regards to the room key aspect of MB, it doesn't surprise me that the comfort stations and security gates still have issues. That I can see because it probably wasn't a priority of Disney to get those right. That isn't right, but I can see getting MBs to work with other things being a priority first.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

One of my research tasks over the next few weeks is to price out a variety of "we've always wanted to go there" trips and compare them to the amount we spend for a WDW trip. I suspect we're going to want to drag out the passports, even with the outrageous plane fares these days.

We have young kids, so we've been in Disney-only vacation mode for the last three years. We decided to take an adults-only trip for our anniversary this winter, and I remember sitting there with my jaw on the table when I saw the prices because they seemed so cheap. Have fun exploring other options! Regardless of all the hassles, our kids are still little, still fully believe in the Magic, and have no idea how much behind-the-scenes crap their parents put up with to get them to Disney , so we'll still be making it our family vacation destination in 2014. I do look forward to the day when we feel like they'll appreciate going elsewhere.

 

[annacali]

We were off site guests in December and I felt like a second class citizen at Disney. We have done over 40 trips and the last 10 have been offsite. This December 2013 trip was the worse by far. Based on that trip we won't be coming back; unless, we do stay onsite. That said, your review is not making me thrilled about even doing that now. I'm sure I'll give it a try onsite when the dust all settles, but I know already I won't be coming back as often as we did in the past. I'm looking at a Disney trip every 5 years or so, now, if that. In the past three years we have expanded our horizons on other vacations and we find ourselves much happier and spending less money than a Disney trip, whether we compare staying onsite or off at Disney. I'm basically done with Disney World; unless, there are some great deals in the future.

This was us in November. But honestly-- the problems we had with long standby lines for everything ( way out of proportion to the crowds and to anything we had seen before for rides that never even had lines before but now had FP+ queues) and lack of FP availability would not have been fixed by staying on site. Having 3 FP a day might have helped a little but it would not have prolonged the time we spent in the parks. As it was the precious few hours at rope drop were all that were functional for us. It is not worth the price of a Disney vacation to only be able to effectively function in the parks for 2-3 hours a day. We aren't planning a return trip on or offsite any time soon.

 

[jke2013]

At least under the old system, if we knew that we couldn't make it in time to use a FP, we could always hand it off to someone who could use it. Then it wouldn't be wasted. And chances are, at some point during our trip, someone would hand us one of their FP's. It was a really neat way to participate in the magic of Disney.
And of course, under the old system, we weren't limited to 3 FP's so if we missed out on 1 it didn't feel like such a big loss.

Part of the magic on our last trip was the kindness of complete strangers giving us fastpasses they were not going to use. I'm disappointed that aspect is going away.

 

[2Tiggies]

I feel this could be the one piece of MM+ that eventually does it in. Once the tech glitches get worked out, once FP+ settles down...... this will remain.

I actually do enjoy planning and researching our Disney trips. But we spend too much for aggravation to replace the happiness I used to feel over the course of the year we are planning.

I agree

In the meantime, however, the tech glitches are the here and now of what I'm dealing with and to feel this frustrated nearly 6 months out from a vacation is just so wrong, in every respect.

As I type this I still have a clone on my MDE account. Yep, two me's. I mean I love myself and all, but really, taking myself on vacation once at a time is enough for me! Numerous calls to the wonderful staff at Disney's IT helpline only seems to have complicated matters even more. I am really not even feeling confident about the ability to book FP's at all as things stand now, considering that my name has two sets of park tickets assigned to it, yet on my account it lists me as "not eligible for magic band" .....

IT assures me "You have nothing to worry about. It looks fine from our side ..."

When my ADR window opened, I could not get the system to recognize that I had an onsite booking and should be eligible for the +10 days. I could have called, but decided to leave it. I made one ADR and that's it. We are happy with CS meals.


I love planning too. We have several friends arriving at different times during the course of our vacation and are trying to schedule in time to see everyone while we are there. The only problem is that because we are going in the summer, and over 4th of July, we know that we can't really afford to risk not scheduling FP's. So now we are going to be pretty much locked into our park/s for the day leaving our friends, some of whom prefer not to plan (not all of them are into rides so it isn't priority to them as it is to us) being dictated to by our schedule.

I so badly want this to all work out ok and say I was wrong to worry. But they aren't making it easy and I'm having second thoughts about booking another trip for next year, as things stand right now.

 

[Missyrose]

I'm unsure. I think that with the "triple dipping" type threads on this forum, there are still a TON of paper fast passes going out. Once those machines are gone and the only fast pass riders are FP+ assignments, perhaps it might be better.

The paper machines were already gone from Animal Kingdom when we went there. The only FP+ we successfully used that day was for Kilimanjaro Safari. We waited 15-20 minutes in the fast pass line to board a bus, right around 12pm. So even in a park where only FP+ were distributed, they apparently handed out a LOT of them. We didn't get to use our other two FP+ at AK so I do not know if the FP waits would have been similar at other rides.

15 minutes in a FP line is still faster than an hour in standby, I suppose.

They started messing with the number of FPs doled out back in March 2012 when they started enforcing FP return times. Disney needs every bit of FP capacity it can get to make the new system work and the longer FP lines seems to be the byproduct of this.

 

[Ravenne]

Part of the magic on our last trip was the kindness of complete strangers giving us fastpasses they were not going to use. I'm disappointed that aspect is going away.

Yes, yes, yes! It was so nice when people did that. It gave me a glimmer of hope in humanity when everything else you see seems like crap. I wish this was encouraged rather than going away.

 

[xie]

They started messing with the number of FPs doled out back in March 2012 when they started enforcing FP return times. Disney needs every bit of FP capacity it can get to make the new system work and the longer FP lines seems to be the byproduct of this.

Here's the thing.

The only reason they are having FP capacity problems is this: there are too many people in the park for the number of activities available. This is why you can't walk without tripping over people and on many attractions you can't enter without waiting in some kind of line (even FP).

No matter what kind of shell games they try to play with a limited resource (ride capacity), it's still a limited resource. They can only put X number of people per hour through any particular ride. (We overheard a fascinating conversation between the PoTC CMs who were very upset that management was nagging them to put more people through faster. The ride was stopping HALFWAY through when we were there, because the boats were backed up trying to get people unloaded. They had the entire track practically full of boats and the CMs were not happy about the guest experience.)

Another thing they do now that they barely did 12+ years ago is characters. You used to hardly see characters in the parks - it was impromptu whether they'd appear, and if you found one you felt quite fortunate. It certainly wasn't a big list printed on a schedule anywhere. Now there are scheduled character lines all over the place. That occupies a certain number of guests too, who would otherwise be in a ride queue somewhere.

I have no idea what the actual "numbers through the gate" figure is on a per day basis. All I know is they seem to be selling more tickets than they have room for. All the rest of the policy and behavior stems from that.

 

[Ravenne]

I have no idea what the actual "numbers through the gate" figure is on a per day basis. All I know is they seem to be selling more tickets than they have room for. All the rest of the policy and behavior stems from that.

The last time we were there (2011) a security CM told us that over 36k people pass through MK's gates on any given day.

 

[CarrieR]

I believe capacity (Christmas) is 80-90k. Our waiter told us they were 80k on NYE.

That's a lot of people to serve, even spread out over a few dozen attractions.

 

[Missyrose]

The last time we were there (2011) a security CM told us that over 36k people pass through MK's gates on any given day.

On one of the other threads, a CM reported that Disney now considers MK's capacity to be 95,000 since New Fantasyland was opened. If I recall, that's an almost-20,000 bump.

 

[OatsZoo]

WDW should consider what a theme park here in Canada has done, if you get caught cutting in line or jumping into the "Fastpass" line illegally, you get kicked out of the park...this theme park I am talking about also is $70 a day to get in. It has really changed the dynamic of the line up. I also noticed last summer while there, they had CSR watching the lines for such "high fives and giggles" after getting away with murder. It is nice to know that the CSR's are watching and getting rid of the CHEATERS ruining everyone elses day.

Maybe WDW can take a hint and realize that their CSR's should have a backbone and not let sad "fake" stories get by without a printout of their FP+ assignments. I plan on having a hard copy of my selections with me incase of dispute.

What happened to a world of honest people? Seriously people, cheating the system does not help and comes back to bite you in the a**. Changes of policy and procedures are usually caused by people taking advantage of the system...(hence the new RFID cups at the resorts)

 

[xie]

On one of the other threads, a CM reported that Disney now considers MK's capacity to be 95,000 since New Fantasyland was opened. If I recall, that's an almost-20,000 bump.

All I can say is... there is not enough to do in New Fantasyland to occupy 20,000 people. Even when they finally get the dwarf ride open, they won't be able to occupy 20,000 people with two rides, a storyteller, and a Tangled bathroom (even with a line to go potty... )

 

[shan23877]

Thank you OP for a thoughtful and honest assessment of the new FP+ system and Magic Bands.

Mostly though, thank you for 'hosting' a thread that's filled with folks willing to share their thoughts on this in an adult and well mannered way.

This is the first thread that I've read on the topic that I feel is worth following.

I too am apprehensive about the tiered system, limit of 3, and one park per day for FP. We have not been terribly aggressive FP users in the past, but (especially at MK) we certainly use more than 3 in a day. Being a parent, I have no way of knowing what ride will capture DD6's heart and that we'll need to ride several times in a park day. (Last trip it was Space Mountain. We probably got FP for Space 4x in one day). But what really frosts my cookies is that I'm paying a premium for the pleasure of park hopping with no opportunity to schedule my rides for such.

I'm sure that for a first time visitor, or one who never understood how FP worked in the first place, this seems great, but for those of us who have navigated the waters many times these changes seem as though they'll do nothing but make our trips less enjoyable. These changes certainly are not geared toward the seasoned WDW veteran, and that seems to go directly against the huge DVC push that we've seen in recent years. Repeat guests are the bread and butter of any business, and buy implementing changes that adversely affect the vacations of those exact guests simply doesn't seem that bright.

I've go to be missing something!

 

[crostorfer]

I'm sure that for a first time visitor, or one who never understood how FP worked in the first place, this seems great, but for those of us who have navigated the waters many times these changes seem as though they'll do nothing but make our trips less enjoyable. These changes certainly are not geared toward the seasoned WDW veteran, and that seems to go directly against the huge DVC push that we've seen in recent years. Repeat guests are the bread and butter of any business, and buy implementing changes that adversely affect the vacations of those exact guests simply doesn't seem that bright.

I've go to be missing something!

See, here is the deal. I don't think at WDW that we are their bread and butter. We may be somewhere in their cabinet, but unless you are a DVC owner, I think those of us that go once or twice a year are but a speck on their radar. If you own a DVC property, well, they've already got you locked down, don't they. Other than the upkeep on your property, they don't really owe you anything parks wise.

California is a different deal. Disneyland's bread and butter is absolutely their local day guests. They know this, and they cater to them. Considering that massive system wide changes at any corporation are often tested at the smallest site they own, it's interesting that Disneyland has not seen any of these "technological advancements", like WDW has.

I'm always amazed whenever I go how many people honestly have no idea what a FP even is. Every single time I've been at least 5 people in each park have asked me why I'm getting in the FP line, what that thing I'm getting is, what am I holding, etc. I think WDW's bread and butter is the first time visitors. We are all lucky to be able to vacation as often as we do, as there are a lot of people who go once in their lives. I'm the only person I know who has been to WDW as much as I have. I know lots of people in my daily life who have been once. I know very, very few who have been twice. I'm the only person I know who goes yearly. That is Disney's bottom line, those people that dream of taking their little ones to WDW, go once, and are done. Those one and done people, the South American tour groups, and the wealthy people from Europe and Asia who come and stay for two weeks to a month at a time, THAT is Disney's bread and butter. And, to be honest, if you are staying for two weeks to a month 3 FP's a day isn't that big of a deal. They will at some point during their stay be able to ride what they want, multiple times. People like me, who go for 5 days, are the ones who are truly distressed. But maybe therin lies the point? The longer you stay, the better your ride experience will be.

 

[disneyba]

We are frequent visitors to WDW too...our 13th trip is coming up in a few weeks. I have had enough trouble with the MDE website/app (setting up Magicbands, Fastpasses, etc.) to give me a negative impression of the new system before even getting there to try it. Coincidentally, we have also had a few problems with ME voucher info this time too.

We like to do some advance planning, but not this much. It is far too restrictive and lacks flexibility (despite what Disney is trying to tell us).

I am hoping, once we get there, that the Magicbands and Fastpass+ systems work well for us, so that we can see the positives. Like many of you, we love Disney and want to keep going.

But xie has stated very accurately Disney's problem...too many guests allowed into the parks and too few signature rides to accommodate them.

We also are weighing the cost/ benefit balance to our Disney visits. We won't rush to judgment before seeing what transpires during our upcoming trip. But my family group does not have a good impression so far.

Universal is not perfect either, but it might just be our alternative if we stop going to Disney. I don't really care if we are a small part of Disney's business or not...we just won't be there.

Thanks xie for your honest report and thoughtful analysis.

Are you listening Disney?

 

[jester161]

Thanks OP - we are going in June and I have been reading posts everyday making me think bad things!! But even though you had some bad experiences, you have written in such a sensible way that it has made things a lot clearer.

We will now go expecting maybe some 'glitches', and probably a few problems, but at least we know what they might be. So we do some more planning, and try and look to do stuff that doesn't rely so much on FP+ for the headliners. Not gonna let anything spoil the holiday, so we might just have to more chilling and less thrilling!!!