WDW Should Not Open in July. Discuss.

[mckennarose]

If other people encroach your space in a line, there isn’t much you can do about it.

I've been in this situation a few times and I have and will tell someone to step back. This has been in a grocery store, in the midst of the pandemic where markers are clearly labeled on the floor. If they persisted (which none of them have) I would leave the line myself. That's my personal responsibility to myself.

If other people refuse to wear masks and gather, there is nothing you can do about it.

If I'm not there, and it doesn't directly affect me, there is nothing I can do about it. If I'm there and it directly impacts me, I would get myself out of it or not go in the first place. We have been under mandatory mask wearing since April.

To combat COVID people have to stop being selfish.

I agree, and to start they need to recognize and take their personal responsibility seriously.

 

[sam_gordon]

@bavaria, a question if you don't mind...

If one relates "Europe" to the US and the individual countries to the states (which is not a terrible analogy), would some Europeans live in one country and daily cross the border into another country to work? For example, someone might live in NJ but work in NYC, or live in Northern Ky, but work in Cincinnati.

 

[SirDuff]

@bavaria, a question if you don't mind...

If one relates "Europe" to the US and the individual countries to the states (which is not a terrible analogy), would some Europeans live in one country and daily cross the border into another country to work? For example, someone might live in NJ but work in NYC, or live in Northern Ky, but work in Cincinnati.

Not Bavaria, but absolutely. I work in Switzerland but many of my colleagues live in France. Very common elsewhere as well.

That was allowed to happen even during lockdown.

 

[bavaria]

@bavaria, a question if you don't mind...

If one relates "Europe" to the US and the individual countries to the states (which is not a terrible analogy), would some Europeans live in one country and daily cross the border into another country to work? For example, someone might live in NJ but work in NYC, or live in Northern Ky, but work in Cincinnati.

Absolutely. There are many cross border workers France/NL/Germany/Austria/Switzerland etc. Perhaps one of the most common examples is Switzerland, which is not EU but is Schengen. They hire a lot of French around Lake Geneva (which is half in Switzerland and half in France) because the rate of pay is far lower than what they would have to pay Swiss. And many on the border with Germany work there but live in Austria, because cost of living can be lower.

Or look at Strasbourg, seat of the European parliament. It sits right on the German border. (Similar with Brussels) On a normal day, the flights from Frankfurt, Zurich etc are filled with Europeans flying around for work. Then there are those taking train, or driving across. The airport in Basel/Mulhouse is physically in France but you can exit it into France, or Switzerland. It also sits on the German border. These activities were of course reduced in the past months, but are increasing as business and government opens up again.

So for your question, it even was more complex as we have countries with their rules, and then countries like Germany where the states have their own rules. One state even went to court to drop the international arrival quarantine last month. There isn't alignment, just like in the US. One state dropped the mask rule, others are thinking of it. What you can do in one state varies from another.

So in the case of Europe, quite complex, add in Germany even more complex.

So yes, there were crossings daily

 

[bavaria]

Not Bavaria, but absolutely. I work in Switzerland but many of my colleagues live in France. Very common elsewhere as well.

That was allowed to happen even during lockdown.

Quit reading my mind. I was slower than you at writing that

 

[RobDoc]

Since it seems that political discussion has been controlling this thread for several pages this one also needs to close.

 

[SirDuff]

Quit reading my mind. I was slower than you at writing that

You were much more detailed

 

[Searc]

Absolutely. There are many cross border workers France/NL/Germany/Austria/Switzerland etc. Perhaps one of the most common examples is Switzerland, which is not EU but is Schengen. They hire a lot of French around Lake Geneva (which is half in Switzerland and half in France) because the rate of pay is far lower than what they would have to pay Swiss. And many on the border with Germany work there but live in Austria, because cost of living can be lower.

Or look at Strasbourg, seat of the European parliament. It sits right on the German border. (Similar with Brussels) On a normal day, the flights from Frankfurt, Zurich etc are filled with Europeans flying around for work. Then there are those taking train, or driving across. The airport in Basel/Mulhouse is physically in France but you can exit it into France, or Switzerland. It also sits on the German border. These activities were of course reduced in the past months, but are increasing as business and government opens up again.

So for your question, it even was more complex as we have countries with their rules, and then countries like Germany where the states have their own rules. One state even went to court to drop the international arrival quarantine last month. There isn't alignment, just like in the US. One state dropped the mask rule, others are thinking of it. What you can do in one state varies from another.

So in the case of Europe, quite complex, add in Germany even more complex.

So yes, there were crossings daily

Thank you for the interesting information.

 

[disneychrista]

You don't know what the situation is off camera for those reporters. Are they in an area where someone can easily approach them and violate their social distance space? Are they wearing the masks just because of the "optics".

I would say most speech givers are at least 10' (probably closer to 20 or more) from anyone in front of them. Masks are superfluous at that point.

None of that matters. If we can understand one set of people wearing masks then the other group doesn’t need to take there’s off to talk.
And yes most may be distanced but not all. I saw a news story yesterday were a group of 15 - 20 people were standing all in one mass NO distancing around a podium. As each person spoke they removed the mask. DUMB!

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Japan’s theme parks have banned screaming on roller coasters because it spreads coronavirus. “Please scream inside your heart.”
https://t.co/DJjC40H0Ap?amp=1

 

[zacharyt25]

Japan’s theme parks have banned screaming on roller coasters because it spreads coronavirus. “Please scream inside your heart.”
https://t.co/DJjC40H0Ap?amp=1

"please scream inside your heart" this should apply to rides as well as people who want to yell about their rights being infringed upon when they are asked to wear a mask

 

[anthony2k7]

While this might be true, I think we'd be seeing far higher rates in the northeast states if that's the case, and things are still pretty evened out here. I am in Connecticut now and go for a walk on our "canal" almost every morning. I always have a mask with me and pull it up when anyone gets near, but many people walking/running/biking do not have it. I personally have relaxed to the point where I do not think it likely that a less than ten second passing of someone outdoors is going to cause much, so maybe this is more related to larger scale outdoor gatherings, or longer exposure, but a LOT of people are outdoors and keeping distance without masks and aren't contracting the virus, so perhaps it's even a viral load thing. Either way, being outdoors and keeping a solid distance when possible still seems better than most other options.

Yeah I think viral load is key. It may well be airborne but outside its not prevalent enough to infect. Inside in restaurants where masks are removed though could a big risk regardless of distancing.

 

[anthony2k7]

As a non-American I'm just completely gobsmacked by the overall American response to this virus. I mean, sure, some states have got their act together but just the overall lack of the national coordinated strategy and the way even mask wearing has become politicized? Wow.

To answer the original question, you could not pay me to visit Florida right now. Mild cases or not, risk factors or not, I think common sense would just tell you that the more people that are infected, the more chance you have of being infected yourself. I am not willing to put myself or my family in that type of risk zone for the sake of a vacation.

Then again, we also haven't let our kids in a store in 4 months. And our province has 4 active cases right now that are all related to travel only. I'll stay in my own relatively safe bubble, thanks.

I am also a gobsmacked non American. I live in the UK.

However I'm actually even more gobsmacked at many in the UK. We all watched and rolled our eyes at Americans over the last couple of months. However, here almost no one wears a mask. Many are over joyed that social distancing is becoming more blasé, and like palm beachers many are outright looking for a fight with anyone who suggests they should wear a mask.

 

[bavaria]

I'm not clear if Europa Park allows indoor dining from their website, although the hotel restaurants are slowly opening. Outdoor does not make me nervous, but I was very surprised that indoor at WDW dining is going ahead right now.

But I did find this! Located in the Iceland area, sponsored by the water faucet company Grohe.

https://www.europapark.de/en/attractions/hansgrohe-handwasch-center
The funny thing is that years ago I said here that EP doesn't have the signs in the bathrooms telling guests how to wash their hands, like they have had at WDW for years. I guess we were behind the times and now they have an actual attraction to teach us how to be clean...

Hansgrohe Handwash-Center - Washing your hands correctly must be learned. In the new hansgrohe Handwash-Center, Ed Euromaus will show you how to properly wash your hands. More info.

 

[anthony2k7]

Obviously the more we test the more positives we'll see, but isn't the point that when we know better, we do better? This is all about managing risk levels.

My understanding (here in Canada at least) regarding physical distance measures was never to eradicate the virus - it was to slow it enough so we didn't max out our hospital capacity and have to make horrible decisions about who gets the ventilator. I am happy to do my part to make that happen, and it's my belief that part of making that work is reducing my non-essential travel to hot spots where I could infect my family and bring it back to my province. My own province is not considered high risk, so I'm comfortable traveling with my family here. But I just see it as kind of a no-brainer that you don't want to travel to a place with 6K+ positive results daily (regardless of whether that increase was brought about in changes in testing protocol or not).

Yes more tests gives you better data, and allows for test and trace.

However, my understanding is that whilst FL are doing more tests, the labs are seriously backed up and are taking up to 2 weeks to get the results out? That is next to useless! No use for tracing, and how do you convince someone to isolate for 2 weeks if they don't even know they have it, and when they get the results quarantine is over anyway!

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I am also a gobsmacked non American. I live in the UK.

However I'm actually even more gobsmacked at many in the UK. We all watched and rolled our eyes at Americans over the last couple of months. However, here almost no one wears a mask. Many are over joyed that social distancing is becoming more blasé, and like palm beachers many are outright looking for a fight with anyone who suggests they should wear a mask.

You bring up a very good point. For all the people who are (rightfully) horrified at the US's response to this and subsequent rising case load, have you (general you) not learned anything from us? I've seen pictures out of the UK of completely packed beaches. And then of completely packed streets as pubs reopened. All with no masks or social distancing. Am I correct that some bars/pubs have already shut down again?

I can't believe there are places that have seen what that kind of behavior leads to and then decides to do it anyway. Is the assumption that it just won't be a problem there? Or that the cases are low enough going in the uptick can be handled? Or are Americans not the only selfish ones out there?

There is no way to defend any of the response from the US in this, but I almost find it worse that other countries can see what is happening and why, criticize us and then go and do the same thing. You (general you again) have the benefit of seeing how horribly wrong those decisions can go.

 

[Karin1984]

I am also a gobsmacked non American. I live in the UK.

However I'm actually even more gobsmacked at many in the UK. We all watched and rolled our eyes at Americans over the last couple of months. However, here almost no one wears a mask. Many are over joyed that social distancing is becoming more blasé, and like palm beachers many are outright looking for a fight with anyone who suggests they should wear a mask.

Dutchie here! We only HAVE TO wear masks in public transportation, the rest is for your consideration
But for the first months, hardly anyone was out on the streets and stayed inside. My city was deserted for 1-2 months.

I'm not clear if Europa Park allows indoor dining from their website, although the hotel restaurants are slowly opening. Outdoor does not make me nervous, but I was very surprised that indoor at WDW dining is going ahead right now.

What I get from a Dutch themepark website is that there is indoor dining, but it's not 100% clear on it. It does say that nowadays, after a few weeks, everyone wears their mask and all vehicles in a ride are used again.

 

[bavaria]

@bavaria, a question if you don't mind...

If one relates "Europe" to the US and the individual countries to the states (which is not a terrible analogy), would some Europeans live in one country and daily cross the border into another country to work? For example, someone might live in NJ but work in NYC, or live in Northern Ky, but work in Cincinnati.

Sam, also this is very confusing for everyone. Over on FT everyone is really confused and those are usually the travel experts. (And that is another place with some ugliness, which gets sanitized multiple times a day. People are stressed, and are lowering their filters)

There are really no clear rules as to who can go where and in which situation. Timatic used to be the gold standard which airlines used to determine entry eligibility, visa requirements, etc but they cannot keep up with all the changes. And there are countries using a sliding scale of cases per 100,000 so the people allowed to enter varies daily. Then consider that in Europe not all countries are in the EU, or in Schengen, and the EU just set a guideline not a requirement.

I feel like we are all wandering around not really sure where we should go (well, those who can travel right now) because there are so many factors to consider.

It's quite like the US situation right now I think with quarantines between states, plus add in different levels of risk in different areas/cities. I'm curious how many people had to cancel their WDW holiday for this week due to the state quarantines?

 

[anthony2k7]

- what is the fear re the gas station several mentioned? I pull up, wave my payment card (or if tvguy were with me maybe I'd enter my pin code), pump the gas and use a paper towel to cover the lever if I feel like it, replace the gas cap, and leave. No interaction, minimal touching of anything.

The main issue with gas pumps is that I think you are definitely in the minority if you take any precautions. They are very rarely cleaned. Very few will think to use a paper towel or gloves. Also many will touch the pump and then go buy snacks to then eat without sanitising their hands at all.

 

[bavaria]

You bring up a very good point. For all the people who are (rightfully) horrified at the US's response to this and subsequent rising case load, have you (general you) not learned anything from us? I've seen pictures out of the UK of completely packed beaches. And then of completely packed streets as pubs reopened. All with no masks or social distancing. Am I correct that some bars/pubs have already shut down again?

I can't believe there are places that have seen what that kind of behavior leads to and then decides to do it anyway. Is the assumption that it just won't be a problem there? Or that the cases are low enough going in the uptick can be handled? Or are Americans not the only selfish ones out there?

There is no way to defend any of the response from the US in this, but I almost find it worse that other countries can see what is happening and why, criticize us and then go and do the same thing. You (general you again) have the benefit of seeing how horribly wrong those decisions can go.

No, absolutely not, every country deals with people not wanting to follow rules. Why do you think the BVG Berlin Transport had to up their game re mask wearing on public transport? (Even though in much of central Europe mask wearing was only required in limited places and is being dropped now as deaths are almost nil) Everywhere I read people in different countries are frustrated. Even Japanese are fed up with each other and lack of rule following.

I agree with you here. We have to learn from each other.

Did anyone realise that Melbourne was shut down again because apparently the security guards in the quarantine hotel (five star hotel) were having sex with people in quarantine, then brought it to their next work site? I have friends there who are so fed up because now they have six weeks of shut down again and can only go out for four reasons. And that is due to some poor decision making on the part of a few people...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamara...urne-lockdown-hotel-sex-scandal/#6700db02131d