WDW Changes

[EUROPACL]

Ok, so we get a billion dollars (that's with a "b"), and expansion based on the creative success of the Pixar team, and on this board it falls short of the mark.

That almost makes it sound like the people that make Pixar movies so good are the creative people behind these new attractions....are they? Do you see "1 billion" in those announced plans?

Heck they spent half that on the crapfest that was "At Worlds End".

This is all very good news, and still it is met with "not good enough."

Nobody was saying that Disney needs to make more rides based on good movies.

I see new attractions, park expansions, increases in CM entertainers, and old rides being updated. Maintenance is improving, park attendance continues to increase even as neighboring attractions struggle. No wonder why you guys are unhappy.

Even under Eisner "new attractions" were built even under Eisner "park expansions" happened, heck even new parks. Even under Eisner maintenance occured...lets wait a few years to see if it slack off again and kills someone again....but now again we come back to quality of those things being done. Monsters Inc. Laughing Floor really does scream "stand back Disney is back". So do those plans shown for the Little Mermaide D-Ticket uh?

Maybe it was all the quality movies put out? Qulaity TV shows this season? Oh I know it was all the great tech ideas they are throwing money at that have you awonder.

 

[MassJester]

Even under Eisner "new attractions" were built even under Eisner "park expansions" happened, heck even new parks. Even under Eisner maintenance occured...lets wait a few years to see if it slack off again and kills someone again...

Ok, so it's not the current behavior you are objecting to, but rather your anticipation that management will do someting in the future to make things worse.

but now again we come back to quality of those things being done. Monsters Inc. Laughing Floor really does scream "stand back Disney is back". So do those plans shown for the Little Mermaide D-Ticket uh?

Maybe it was all the quality movies put out? Qulaity TV shows this season? Oh I know it was all the great tech ideas they are throwing money at that have you awonder.

Save for your ability to find a dark cloud to every silver lining, nothing has me 'awonder.'

The OP simply mentioned that things were looking brighter, and I believe the news has been largely positive (save for the 18% tip things--that's just nuts).

You don't see it that way? Ok. My point is that it's hard to foresee any likely turn of events that will make you happy.

 

[Another Voice]

Is it your contention that this billion dollars was the only capital investment over the past 10 years? If not, why would you say that?

The “$1 billion” is for a proposed ten or more year build-out of the park. I’m giving Disney the benefit of the doubt by using ten years and not the longer time frame they seem to be moving towards. Already we’ve seen the cancellation of several DCA “retrofits” involving Paradise Pier and the entire ‘Golden State’ area of the park (completely left off the announcements). The actual statement from the Reuters article was “Disney said it plans to boost capital expenditures by $250 million to $300 million in fiscal 2008, with the new money going to digital improvements at its studio and networks, and to improvements at its theme parks, particularly California Adventure in Anaheim.” Assuming the trend continues, DCA will be fighting with a lot of other areas for their piece of the pie.

In the quote you provide, Iger is talking about growing the business, and in doing so use the creative successes at Pixar -- and this is a bad thing?

Because the ‘Pixar Fix’ has been tried at DCA from the beginning – ‘A Bug’s Land’, ‘Pixar Parade’, ‘Monsters, Inc.’ – and it hasn’t done a thing. People don’t hate DCA because it lacks product tie-ins, they dislike the place because it lacks charm, imagination, warmth, style, grace, hope, and magic. Adding yet another round of commercials for DVDs and toy cars isn’t going to solve the park’s core problem.

I can't help but wondering what an acceptable statement from a Disney executive might look like.

“We view Disney theme parks as a valuable asset, a creative outlet for The Walt Disney Company in their own right. We will treat them with the care they deserve. We will run them as a separate business – one based on sound economics and creative decisions all designed to create the best resort experience as possible. We will occasionally use Disney characters, but we will also focus on creating new stories, new ideas, new experiences that can fully use the media that Walt created – the theme park. We will look to our parks to be as much of a creative engine for Disney as we do our movie studio. We believe there is more value to be gained by expanding the Disney experience instead of repackaging a single property into direct to video sequels and amusement park rides.”

Any complaints?

[quoteThis is all very good news, and still it is met with "not good enough."[/quote]
Money is not the solution – witness the $350+ million mess that was At World’s End.

Disney currently sees the park as a living, breathing commercial for other areas of the company. I do not a park filled with Pixar clones – and I firmly believe that the current plans will actually make California Adventure a worse place than it was before. The problem with DCA is in its concept and soul, not in a drought of character meet ‘n greets. Disney’s dislike and disinterest in its theme parks means they will continue to build mistakes and fail to make real corrections.

 

[MassJester]

I noticew you didn't go for the Iger quote question, and I'm not surprised.

As usual we see the same factsd and don't agree on their interpretation.

 

[EUROPACL]

I noticew you didn't go for the Iger quote question, and I'm not surprised.

As usual we see the same factsd and don't agree on their interpretation.

I love it. I don't think Iger is going to issue a press release saying "I hate the parks". Iger has spent his "carreer" running a bad TV network under the thumb of another guy that hated the parks and used them to get rich. Nothing in Iger's actions suggest that he "gets what the parks are about and understand what they need". Quite frankly you haven't provided any information that you understand them either...the information you cite as examples of good things for the parks are really quite bad. Shoving more Pixar in the parks is not a good sign. Releasing really bad plans that make the exact same mistakes that created DCA is not a good sign.

The best thing you listed is improved maintenance and refurbs of rides that were long overdue...and I'm sorry its sorta the bare minimum of what a company like Disney should be doing....its like getting excited when McDonalds gets your order right and nobody spits in your food.

 

[minnie61650]

....The best thing you listed is improved maintenance and refurbs of rides that were long overdue...and I'm sorry its sorta the bare minimum of what a company like Disney should be doing...........

After all the years of watching Splash Mountain become Trash Mountain, after seeing AA that don't work properly, and ride music that is broken or out of sync I for one am happy that proper maintence and refubs are happening.
Also with a lot of the refubs new enhancements are being added.
The Jack Sparrow AAs that have been added to PotC are so lifelike many guests have commented and said they thought WDW had added a live character to the set .(like the Great Movie Ride has the live gangster).

The HM update has special effects that are surburb.


Yes, I agree refurbs should have been happening much more often than they did in last 20 years. But should we not give credit that more steps in better maintence and refubs seem to taking place in last couple of years? Is this not a step in the right direction?

Just my 2 cents

 

[drkforce]

As I have so often stated, there are a few posters that are only happy when they are finding fault with Disney. Here's a little fact, Disney is a business and as a business it will never be your vision of utopia.

That said, I am still a believer that changes in the parks are measured by the reactions of the guests. During my last visit of 9 days, I saw people happy. Now I know the first thought that will run through the narrow minds of some is "of course they're happy, they're in freakin WDW". Well that may be true for some, but since I like talking to people, I chatted with people in lines, people sitting around us at shows and many of the cast members. And you know what I learned? Many of these people were returning guests and they too have observed the changes that I first mentioned. And it doesn't just end with more street performers or characters or increased maintenance but there was a true feeling of magic creeping back into the parks (except for EPCOT, I will concede that that park needs some serious attention). Even the cast members I spoke with said they have noticed the swing albeit it slow it is progressing in the right direction.

Perhaps, instead of picking the flypoop out of the pepper, Iger should be given some benefit of the doubt. I understand that many of you think the changes should be done with the swish of Tink's magical wand . That's just not how things work, it takes TIME and sometimes alot of it. All I'm saying is be patient, give the man a chance and quit being so doggone negative about everything little thing Disney does.

By the way, I'd like to challenge all the naysayers to post a sincere positive remark that is equal in length and passion to their last negative remark. I'd really like to see if that can be done.

 

[shanomi4]

I love how everyone knows how to run Disney.
I am sure those who have the most negativity to spew are the ones sitting in a 6x6 cubical...... sipping day old coffee ........waiting to punch out at 5.

Tell them how a park should be run!! Go get'm guys!!

 

[EUROPACL]

Yes, I agree refurbs should have been happening much more often than they did in last 20 years. But should we not give credit that more steps in better maintence and refubs seem to taking place in last couple of years? Is this not a step in the right direction?

Just my 2 cents

By the way, I'd like to challenge all the naysayers to post a sincere positive remark that is equal in length and passion to their last negative remark. I'd really like to see if that can be done

There is plenty of sunshine posted all over the DIS it would be disingenuous to post something "postive" just to make you happy. This is a standard tactic though at somepoint someone always comes along to demand that we post something postive or good about Disney or something they've done lately.

 

[DancingBear]

drkforce, cut the "Disney is a business" line. It's old and tired. Nobody claims otherwise. The arguments are over what truly is sound business practice for the long-term benefit of the Company.

shanomi, if everyone had your attitude Ouimet never would have been brought over to change the light bulbs and paint Disneyland, there would be no Extra Magic Hours, and Minnie would still be riding Trash Mountain. Why not actually read and participate in the discussion rather than making an ad hominem attack?

drkforce, the naysayers don't owe anybody any positive posts. (Are you going to ask all of the pixie-dusters to reciprocate?) I just returned from a very enjoyable visit to WDW, and I saw many improvements that I appreciate; however, it's fair of the naysayers to retain some skepticism given the substantial number of bad management decisions made over the last decade or more.

As far as Disney management's wonderful embrace of Pixar, please remind those Disney folks that keep doing things like bad-mouthing Ratatouille.

 

[Another Voice]

I love how everyone knows how to run Disney.

Yes, it's always easy for people without any knowledge to sit on the sidelines and jeer. After all, doesn't it take just as much experience and knowledge to know when things are going right as to know when they are going wrong?

Fortunately, some of here have actual experience. Some of us know business, some of us know entertainment, and some of us even know Disney. It's a far different world sitting in an office being responsible for making millions of people happy than it is prancing about the park wondering how to maximize your Disney Dining Points.

The people who swoon and cheer over who great everything is have never had to sit in a movie theater and worry if an audience is going to laugh at the right time. They've never had to stand at an exit of an attraction waiting to see if people are happy and talking about the ride. People in line for the latest limited edition pin don't have to worry about stock levels and margins.

Yes - Disney fans ain't got a clue about running Disney.

As long as their face is fed, as long as they fondle enough plush, as long as they’re entertained for the full 1.1 minutes of their attention span - the “fans” are happy. They don't know any better; they live in a bubble of self amusement and they don't care beyond that. Fans think things are going right when they are happy - but that doesn't mean anything for the other 13,999,999 people in the park. Knowing that requires a whole different mind set that's far beyond "my DD3 loves the new 'Nemo' puppet show". Basing an opinion of a company's operation on personal likes and dislikes is a nearsighted veiwpoint is foolish beyond belief.

After all - the very people that are cheering the improved maintenance and cleanliness now are the same people how refused to say there was a problem to begin with.

However, some people actually care about the company, about the tradition, about the work. Some of us want our children and grandchildren to have the same "magical experiences" that we have had. Disney is a business, and it suffers all the trails and troubles as any other human enterprise.

Despite the foolishness of the fans' belief - "magic" just doesn't happen. It is created by people, maintained by people. It is exceptionally hard to do and doesn't come without great effort.

Some of us what Disney to be what it used to be - not a marketing brand for diapers, cell phones and soap operas. If that bothers you...I really don't care. The world is full of people who strive for nothing more than the bottom; Disney used to mean more than that and that's how I choose to see the company. My memories of Disney of are a time when they did things no one else in the world can do. My Disney strove, did the impossible and never settled. My Disney made paintings move, built castles in orange groves and captured the imgaintation of the world.

I'm sorry if you're happy with a Disney that makes nothing more then Cinderella 14 or if you see picking up the trash is seen as a "major improvement".

So please, if we've too "negative" for you, pardon our understanding of what it really takes to make Disney work. But you’re absolutely right about one thing – Disney fans don’t know a thing about running Disney.

 

[drkforce]

Again another brilliant tirade from AV about how great he is to be in the "know" of show business. Apparently all of us "little brains" couldn't possibly understand business. I guess those of us with business degrees and managing multi-million dollar businesses or those of us who actually own our business couldn't possibly understand what it is like to put forth a product of our own creation and hope that our market research was right and the product will be well received or even more that it will be accepted as a quality product. Wow, I'm so glad that we have AV to teach us all that because "us little brains is just too dumb".

AV and anyone else in the "know", why don't you all just shut the heck up and quit treating everyone else on these boards like they are blithering idiots. NOBODY believes for a second that the Disney Magic just appears out of nowhere and that there is not years of work and millions of dollars spent behind every bit of "magic" there is.

Perhaps you should all keep your so called "business knowledge" to the water cooler or to the classes I'm sure you're teaching at your local university.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone out there wants Cinderella 14 and perhaps, just perhaps that is why Iger said he wanted to halt all direct to dvd movies. HMMM maybe he does know what he is doing and maybe he does have a business plan and maybe he lost your freakin emails to share it with you.



As one of the beloved characters in the "evil" DISNEY/PIXAR movie Toy Story says "You are a sad strange little man"

 

[Another Voice]

It's funny that when someone says "everything is good at Disney" they are never challenged on their beleifs, but when some says "there's something wrong" we get a flurry of posts saying we don't know what we're taking about and strings of name calling.

I've never told you to "shut-up" - now you scream and yell and demand my silence. I beleive I've been able to explain my position, yet I haven't seen anything from you other than personal observations without back-up and screams that I'm just being negative because just like to to hate things.

So - show us your business insight. Tell us why Disney is doing better beyond your observation that there was less trash this time around. Tell us how the changes to California Adventure will bring in 5 million more visitors a year. Tell us how the new resort in Hawai'i is going to make WDW a better place.

Let's see some actual discussion instead of "I like it so you shut up" childiness.

As for my "business knowledge" - I think an informed customer base is about Disney's only hope these days. There is no leadership for quality coming from the inside, only people trying to make a quick buck from cell phones and downloadable princess movies. It's up to us to demand Disney return to quality, to return to what they do best and for them to uphold the standards they keep telling us about (but never putting into practice). The more people understand Disney - rather than just going by the reaction of their offsrping - the better everything will be.

 

[MassJester]

Aside for the improved visible conditions, the announcements of further investment, and the increased attendance, I'm not sure what evidence could be presented to paint a picture that things were going in a positve direction.

They are pushing more resources back into the enterprise, the "fans" whether they know how to run a park are enjoying themselves, and attendance continues to climb.

If these positive changes don't appeal to you I think that's unfortunate.

Perhaps you do have a background that establishes you as an expert in the running of multi-million dollar entertainment venues--if so, I've not seen the details of that, so I can't see myself bowing to superior expertise simply because it's cloaked in a consistent veil of criticsm.

If you've got your MBA from the Sloan School, were a former Senior Vice President of Operations for Disney, or are the current manager of a Las Vegas entertainment complex, please, by all means, regail us with your expertise. Otherwise spare us the false air of superior understanding.

 

[minnie61650]

Originally Posted by minnie61650
Yes, I agree refurbs should have been happening much more often than they did in last 20 years. But should we not give credit that more steps in better maintence and refubs seem to taking place in last couple of years? Is this not a step in the right direction?

Just my 2 cents

I agree if we all have lower expectaions Disney could just stagnate.
And yes I also felt that the last decade or so that Esiner was in charge of the parks the parks, rides, and attractions, as well as the resorts were not maintained properly. They did not get updates and refubishments in a timely manner.

I do feel there is a lot of room for growth and change within the parks.

I feel that the Studios and AK really need more rides and attractions.
Many guests do not think of those as a full day park.

MK has space for at least one more ""E" ticket ride.
The space that was occupied by 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea could most likely even hold a dark ride in addition to an "E" ticket ride.

Epcot also has a lot of room for growth.

Wonders of Life is just sitting there unused for the most part when it has so much potential.

There is room in World Showcase to hold a few more "countries".

Parts of EPCOT should be "ever charging" as Walt Disney had hoped.

DL and WDW should not be allowed to stagnate for it may in the not so far distant future suffer the same fate and look as deserted as River Country looks now.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a175/minnie61650/rc6-1.jpg

Photo of River Country as it looks now.

I think WDW is showing a few small signs of improvement and I hope growth and improvements will continue so future generations can continue to enjoy the "Disney experience".

JMHO

 

[shanomi4]

AV,
name calling......I think if you read your previous post where you talked about the "fans" you will see that you were also degrading people AKA fans.

You asked d a very interesting question...."Tell us how the new resort in Hawai'i is going to make WDW a better place."

Any fool or not would see this is a loaded question that has an obvious answer. A resort will certainly not help "WDW". It will however, hopefully, help the bottom line for Disney on the whole. This is what is called diversification. A wise move. I get the feeling that you and others are all for pumping more and more cash into the parks. Perhaps this is a selfish want. The parks attendance continues to grow. And you even made a very valid point when you said "As long as their face is fed, as long as they fondle enough plush, as long as they’re entertained for the full 1.1 minutes of their attention span - the “fans” are happy". So we agree Dis is a business. A business to make money, not to make dreams come true. So if they can make the same money without spending a ton of liquid cash, then aren’t they the smart ones. I am sorry that you feel that disney lost its magic. For me it was and will always be a theme park. Perhaps that where you and I are different. I am not trying to regain some childhood experience. Now I am sure you will argue the fact that you said "fans" and I see the difference between and attendee and a fan. But the fact is WDW has never been more popular. If they can get the same $ and response from what they offer that they could of gotten by thinking outside of the box, then tell me why do that? They are successful. I think it wise for them to diversify and look at other streams of income. We do not know 1/10th of a percent of what they know as far as their studies and projections to name a few. Maybe all there surveys are telling them something we don't have a clue to. It just seems crazy to sit here and try to 2nd guess on something we know nothing about.....unless you are on the inside. Other wise we/you are just speaking from personal preference. Being that is personal preference it is extremely arrogant to say things as fact when YOU haven't backed it up.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Oh my -- nothing much changes here.

As long as we all agree with one another....everything is alright.

God forbid, however, that we not share YOUR opinion. Then our intelligence and character are available for attack.

Hey - play nice!

We are here for discussions - which include differing opinions.

Thanks!

Cathy

 

[GoofyasGoofy]

i believe we are getting a bit out of hand here. There should be no personal jeers at anyone at these boards! I would recomend that everyone just take a breath and get over themselves and not post if they are going to cause too much controversy. It is a simple thread and I love the fact that old rides are getting re-fitted. The Haunted Mansion will be absolutely brilliant! and I agree that PotC is stunning! Rides break, AA's are out of date, but I love it all...broken or not! I love the history and the feelings that it all gives me. So...let's not squabble!

 

[DancingBear]

Again another brilliant tirade from AV about how great he is to be in the "know" of show business. Apparently all of us "little brains" couldn't possibly understand business. I guess those of us with business degrees and managing multi-million dollar businesses or those of us who actually own our business couldn't possibly understand what it is like to put forth a product of our own creation and hope that our market research was right and the product will be well received or even more that it will be accepted as a quality product. Wow, I'm so glad that we have AV to teach us all that because "us little brains is just too dumb".

AV and anyone else in the "know", why don't you all just shut the heck up and quit treating everyone else on these boards like they are blithering idiots. NOBODY believes for a second that the Disney Magic just appears out of nowhere and that there is not years of work and millions of dollars spent behind every bit of "magic" there is.

Perhaps you should all keep your so called "business knowledge" to the water cooler or to the classes I'm sure you're teaching at your local university.

Is irony totally lost on you? shanomi's snarkiness is okay with you, but A-V's sarcastic response brings forth your outrage?

 

[DancingBear]

Aside for the improved visible conditions, the announcements of further investment, and the increased attendance, I'm not sure what evidence could be presented to paint a picture that things were going in a positve direction.

They are pushing more resources back into the enterprise, the "fans" whether they know how to run a park are enjoying themselves, and attendance continues to climb.

I'm happy to see positive changes. But this is the same management that just chopped off a chunk of WDW to bring in Four Seasons, because they don't believe Disney can truly provide the deluxe service. And who decided that the best use of land on the other side of the property was some nice strip shopping and a Comfort Inn. And who created declining quality and homogenization of table service menus with the dining plan. And the same management that tolerates Disney marketing folks getting snarky about how hard it was to sell a movie about a rat (which has not grossed $580 million). There is still something to prove here.