Was the teacher wrong?

[mom2rtk]

I think this explains it all - do you consider consequences a thing of the past?

Why would you think that? Teacher throwing a fit in a letter is not a consequence. Teacher letting the student receive the grade they deserve without extra credit is a consequence. A pretty substantial and very fitting one.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I wish on the MS behavior - this has been his "thing" for far too long (and, he is in high school...). He literally sits at the table, does it all, and then it sits in his binder until I say "WTH, you have 4 missing assignments in Spanish!!". Then, he turns them in. I do not know why there is a disconnect. It would be fantastic if he would outgrow it before adulthood.

My guess is that the disconnect comes from a lot of distractions when he's arriving in class and is supposed to put it in a certain place (complicated by the fact that the basket/tray/folder/procedure is different in every classroom) - and especially if he tends to dawdle in the hall and come into class at the last second. When he's sitting at the table doing the homework, it's exactly the opposite - a solid routine in a calm environment.

He needs to find a way to make turning homework in part of a routine too. Different things work for different kids - the alarm I mentioned earlier, a bright "turn in HW" note taped to the cover of his notebook, a connection to some other part of his routine... Talk with him about what he thinks might, as you said, "spark his fire". The key is that whatever system he uses has to be his system - not something you or the teacher do for him.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with the message and the policy....
I do NOT however agree with this letter. Very inappropriate.
I totally agree with mom2rk, Summer, Cannot wait, and several others.

No matter how this has all transpired over the school year, that letter is simply not appropriate.

 

[Summer2018]

If that was all outlined on the syllabus, then there's no need for the letter. Just calmly point them back to the syllabus and let the natural consequences take place.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[PollyannaMom]

If that was all outlined on the syllabus, then there's no need for the letter. Just calmly point them back to the syllabus and let the natural consequences take place.

I agree with you, if the teacher is allowed to "let the natural consequences take place". In some districts, you can't give zeros (or even less than a 60) - even if the kid turned in no homework. It's a messed up system.

Why would you think that? Teacher throwing a fit in a letter is not a consequence. Teacher letting the student receive the grade they deserve without extra credit is a consequence. A pretty substantial and very fitting one.

The letter is definitely an expression of frustration...though depending on what's led up to it, it may be a case of the kids needing to know exactly how frustrated she is. I think it's possible that a strongly-worded letter was necessary, but this particular version simply should have been slept on and edited first.

 

[Scifidiner]

Well, my hats off to anyone that is a teacher . Especially in public schools teaching common core. A coworker brought in a common core text book that was her child's, that was the most nonsensical, made up foolishness I've ever read in my life. I can't imagine trying to teach that to entitled kids and their parents today.

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree with you, if the teacher is allowed to "let the natural consequences take place". In some districts, you can't give zeros (or even less than a 60) - even if the kid turned in no homework. It's a messed up system.



The letter is definitely an expression of frustration...though depending on what's led up to it, it may be a case of the kids needing to know exactly how frustrated she is. I think it's possible that a strongly-worded letter was necessary, but this particular version simply should have been slept on and edited first.

I can't disagree with any of that. My primary complaint was the tone of the letter. It reads just like something she penned in frustration to get it off her chest. She needed to take a step back, maybe come back the next day and try to act like the adult in the room.

 

[Magical2017]

Well, my hats off to anyone that is a teacher . Especially in public schools teaching common core. A coworker brought in a common core text book that was her child's, that was the most nonsensical, made up foolishness I've ever read in my life. I can't imagine trying to teach that to entitled kids and their parents today.

Was it mathematics? What was nonsensical and foolish? CCSS are a set of standards. I have seen some curriculum that seems a bit nonsensical, though.

 

[Scifidiner]

Was it mathematics? What was nonsensical and foolish? CCSS are a set of standards. I have seen some curriculum that seems a bit nonsensical, though.

It was math, it's been a few years back. I just remember it made absolutely no sense to me and I have a BS. It was like something someone would make up after drinking a 12 pack as a joke.

 

[bethbuchall]

I teach preschool.

Early Childhood Educators approach communication with children in non-threatening, warm demanding ways. We build relationships based on trust, caring, and mutual respect. Students tend to work harder for teachers who genuinely care about them and treat them with dignity and respect.

I guess I wouldn’t be cut out to teach adolescents if treating my students otherwise were required to be effective.

By the way, I cannot imagine any administrator would approve that letter.

I'm also a preschool teacher, and I agree with you about the wording of the letter. I wouldn't complain if my child received that letter, but I think there were much more appropriate ways to word the letter or handle the situation.

I have absolutely no problems with a policy of not giving extra credit. I think that using the feelings of having a poor grade as a reminder to work more diligently in the future is an excellent one. However, this letter was not worded respectfully. The teacher is the adult and should be modeling the behavior/tone that he/she is trying to instill in the students. I can understand the frustration of having students (or their parents) suddenly pushing for a better grade, but this wasn't an off-the-cuff remark in response to the frustration. It was typed out, proof-read, and distributed. At some point along the line, the teacher should have realized that it sounded immature and flippant and risen to a higher standard. Think it, say it to a spouse/co-worker, but don't type it and send it out.

Again, I would not complain if a teacher sent this to me as a parent. I would probably think less of the teacher as a professional (though not necessarily as a person).

 

[Magical2017]

It was math, it's been a few years back. I just remember it made absolutely no sense to me and I have a BS. It was like something someone would make up after drinking a 12 pack as a joke.

The CCSS-M standards for elementary focus on reasoning and sense making. Sometimes the way students approach problems seems crazy. Sometimes the curriculum is just bad. The CCSS-M gets a lot of bad press, but the standards are really based on the properties of operations and place value. The one thing that really seems to be discussed heavily (in a negative light) on social media and other forums is the use of invented strategies versus the traditional algorithm. I think schools that do a lot of parent nights and send information home really help parents see the "why" of focusing on building that conceptual understanding first, as well as building procedural fluency. It's more than just getting the right answer. It's about applying problem solving skills to approach a problem when the formula or method has not been prescribed. Personally, I would be livid if my sons' classrooms were taught in an "I do-we do-you do" approach of the past rather than a student-centered problem solving approach. That is BS to me.

 

[brockash]

The teacher can care without "yelling" at students in writing, which is what that note does. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. No rant needed. That letter was the teacher throwing a fit.

Lol... seriously talk to me after you've taught middle school for a few years... you can say it "nicely" until you're blue in the face and with many it just does nothing.... they don't get it. FOR some you really have to spell it out or in your opinion "yell" and have "rant," neither of which do I think is true in this case.

 

[Magical2017]

Lol... seriously talk to me after you've taught middle school for a few years... you can say it "nicely" until you're blue in the face and with many it just does nothing.... they don't get it. FOR some you really have to spell it out or in your opinion "yell" and have "rant," neither of which do I think is true in this case.

I have the same issue with college students. I do offer a small amount of extra credit for attending a conference or professional development activity. The few who do the extra credit are most often the ones who don't need it, but attend because they want to grow and learn.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I thought it was a very rudely worded letter. If she wanted to get her point across, there are better ways to say what she said.

She was probably (like a teacher described below) at her breaking point. When did this letter go out? Third quarter?

And yes, he turned in every assignment.

Just by having done the work, he is 180° from the students recerred to in the letter. Does he have an IEP? The scho should be working with him.

A simple: "I do not offer extra credit in this class. Please do not inquire about this at anytime during the school year, as it will not be granted" written on the syllabus would have been professional and up front about expectations.

Doesn't indicate any "why". Sometimes you have to be harsh to get the point across.

 

[ronandannette]

The CCSS-M standards for elementary focus on reasoning and sense making. Sometimes the way students approach problems seems crazy. Sometimes the curriculum is just bad. The CCSS-M gets a lot of bad press, but the standards are really based on the properties of operations and place value. The one thing that really seems to be discussed heavily (in a negative light) on social media and other forums is the use of invented strategies versus the traditional algorithm. I think schools that do a lot of parent nights and send information home really help parents see the "why" of focusing on building that conceptual understanding first, as well as building procedural fluency. It's more than just getting the right answer. It's about applying problem solving skills to approach a problem when the formula or method has not been prescribed. Personally, I would be livid if my sons' classrooms were taught in an "I do-we do-you do" approach of the past rather than a student-centered problem solving approach. That is BS to me.

Time will tell which philosophy produces better results. No matter what is added to or taken away, most objective pursuits really do require "getting the right answer". I'd strongly dispute that changes to education methods over the past 25 years have resulted in a generation of logical, rational deep-thinkers; quite the contrary. But again, I guess time will tell.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I mean, I can tell you right now -- probably with 90% accuracy -- which of my students will fail the state final exam. Doesn't mean I shouldn't give them the chance to take it.

I feel that's not a reasonable comparison. Isn't the Stste Final Exam mandatory?

Teacher was in the wrong with this letter. It could of been easily addressed at the beginning of year/term with a syllabus and/or classroom expectations that both parents and the student (K-12th) have to sign and agree to.

This is the following I’ve seen in my kids syllabus/classroom expectations over the years.
*There will be no extra credit for this course.
*Extra Credit - None.
*Assignments are worth a big percentage of course grade. There will be no extra credit. Late/absent assignment policies.

The letter is so blunt, I have to believe this was far frkm the teacher's first attempt at communicating her policy.

 

[Scifidiner]

The CCSS-M standards for elementary focus on reasoning and sense making. Sometimes the way students approach problems seems crazy. Sometimes the curriculum is just bad. The CCSS-M gets a lot of bad press, but the standards are really based on the properties of operations and place value. The one thing that really seems to be discussed heavily (in a negative light) on social media and other forums is the use of invented strategies versus the traditional algorithm. I think schools that do a lot of parent nights and send information home really help parents see the "why" of focusing on building that conceptual understanding first, as well as building procedural fluency. It's more than just getting the right answer. It's about applying problem solving skills to approach a problem when the formula or method has not been prescribed. Personally, I would be livid if my sons' classrooms were taught in an "I do-we do-you do" approach of the past rather than a student-centered problem solving approach. That is BS to me.

2 + 2 = 4.

 

[Magical2017]

Time will tell which philosophy produces better results. No matter what is added to or taken away, most objective pursuits really do require "getting the right answer". I'd strongly dispute that changes to education methods over the past 25 years have resulted in a generation of logical, rational deep-thinkers; quite the contrary. But again, I guess time will tell.

The Common Core absolutely focuses on getting the right answer, but also how do you go about getting the right answer in the most effective way? If I am presented with subtracting 992 from 1,000, I will calculate 992 + ? gives me 1,000. The standard US algorithm is fast and effective, but it would not necessarily be the most effective strategy to use for that particular problem. Having that discussion with students and focusing on similarities and differences between both algorithms and strategies used to approach a problem can be very helpful for future jobs. Those jobs ask us to collaborate and determine several approaches to solve problems. That is what the CCSS-M was intended to do.

The Standards for Math Practice absolutely have a standard that is about attending to precision, but you must also persevere and critique the reasoning of others (among other things). I observe in a lot of different schools. It can definitely promote more logical, higher order thinking if it is implemented correctly. The implementation is a big question. There are many criticisms I have of the CCSS-M as well as the testing. It is not without fault. The stagnant test scores are concerning. However, I do go back to the idea of how they are implemented. The rich discussion that centers around students' work, regardless of the standards used, is what is going to deepen their mathematical understanding.

 

[Scifidiner]

My question is are high school graduates in 2019 more or less proficient in English, math and history than a high school graduate in 1955? In my experience and that's working with Master's level college graduates is absolutely not.

 

[kaytieeldr]

2 + 2 = 4.

From my understanding, doesn't it also equal either 0 or 20?