Was the teacher wrong?

[Summer2018]

I will first say that I agree 100% with this teacher's sentiment. I have many near and dear to me that are teachers, and the stories get worse with each passing year. I don't know how college students still major in education. It's a thankless job that is greatly underpaid.

With that being said, this letter is extremely unprofessional, aggressive, and accusatory. If I ever sent this out at my office, HR would be calling me down for a nice little meeting. The teacher lacks tact. There is a way to get your point across, while remaining professional. This would not fly at my place of employment.

Teachers vent in the teachers' lounge or at happy hour after school. The things we say stay behind closed doors, because many times they would be considered inappropriate for mass consumption.

If we wrote letters like that in my district/state, we would be calling our union representatives to accompany us to that meeting with our administrators. Teachers in Connecticut would not get away with speaking with students in that way, not to mention putting it in writing (evidence). I might have tenure and a stellar reputation, but I don't know if my career would survive writing a letter like this. My Principal would certainly look at me very differently than she does now.

No matter the grade level, clear expectations are put in writing at the beginning of the school year with fair realistic consequences clearly stated. This document/parent letter/syllabus would have to be approved by the Principal before sending it home to parents. The Board of Education would require that whatever we send home in writing and however we speak with parents and students, it would be done in respectful language.

Bottom line: That letter is unprofessional and inappropriate.

 

[Summer2018]

I agree.

A simple: "I do not offer extra credit in this class. Please do not inquire about this at anytime during the school year, as it will not be granted" written on the syllabus would have been professional and up front about expectations. The syllabus is handed out on the first day of class. Have the students take it home and require a signature from the parents that they have read what will be covered in class, and the rules of the class (including no extra credit).

Any students (or parents) that ask about extra credit throughout the year could be answered with a calm and factual tone. "Please check your syllabus. I do not offer extra credit."

Professional and to the point.

Exactly.

 

[Mermaid02]

I don't disagree with the message, but I do disagree with the delivery.

 

[Minniesgal]

I love it! And, I would love to wave it in my kids face should he be the one this was directed at.

My oldest...ugh. He does ALL the work, but NEVER turns it in. His gradebooks are littered with 4/5, 24/30, 40/50, etc. All would be PERFECT grades, but he turns them in late. So, it is an automatic 20% drop in grade . Then, he is not a good test taker, so his grades falter there.

If he had the balls to ask for extra credit, because his grades were low due to his own negligence in getting the work in...I would laugh in his face, too.

There is only so much warmth, compassion, etc. you can devote to a kid before the frustration of them not listening/caring takes over. I am 100% sure that is where this teacher was.

Kids need tough love, too. Especially from teachers, since a lot of parents don't do it any more..

Tough love is one thing if you have a middle class kid who is lazy but not all kids are that privileged.

Some kids are barely getting enough to eat. Some are lone carers for sick parents etc etc. For some kids given their life circumstances they are not able to prioritise school.

Easy for middle class parents to judge as they do't always see the other side of the coin. A teacher however should know better.

 

[SamFaniam]

For the majority of students, I understand the frustration behind this letter. I would hope, though, that she would have a different policy for students with documented learning disabilities. I know for my son, sometimes extra credit was all that stood between passing a class and failing. And yes, he turned in every assignment.

I do not think this letter would’ve been directed at your son. I think it was directed at students who didn’t make an effort.

 

[SteveH]

Complaints like this are one reason people cant take criticism when they get to "the real world".

Bingo Bango Bongo!!! Employers are seeing it too now. This is how the term "snowflake" has evolved. This is the everyone gets a first place trophy attitude.

Kids need tough love, too. Especially from teachers, since a lot of parents don't do it any more..

Big problem is that far to many parents want to be their child's best friend and not their parent. Even worse is many parents don't even want to be a parent or a best friend, they want to be out playing and ignore their "problem" child that they created and allowed to metamorphize into a child that is totally comfortable failing in school as long as they get to play their video games.

What is the point of education these days? Is it just to make sure students "feel" like they are good students?

Yep, everyone is a superstar now and gets a trophy. Society will be paying the price soon enough.

Personal responsibility is so 20th century.

This 100% this is the issue. We have created a society that does not teach, respect or encourage personal responsibility. Using the words is almost akin to using a racial slur in some circles.

My dad who is now in his mid 80's mentioned that when he was in school the students were assigned seats with the best grades up front and in order back according to grades. Wouldn't bother me any but I'm guessing that would no longer work, too offensive. Someones feelings might get hurt.

While high school and college I had teachers/profs that would always hand the tests back from A-F, partially because of the curve but it was also done so you knew who was goofing off and who was working hard.

 

[ronandannette]

LOL, I have to agree. Sensitive people see directness as being rude.
These kids are in middle school, by then they know how it works- if you don't do your work you get a bad grade.
I'm going to assume this teacher has reached the point where she has already tried other options to get these kids to do their assigned work. I'm also going to assume that she is not directing this note to those students who are struggling academically for reasons other than blowing off their assignments.
At some point these kids need to hear the truth, they don't need to be coddled and made to feel good about their choices to not to their schoolwork, and IMO middle school is the age where a teacher shouldn't have to sugar coat the truth to spare their feelings. Be direct, get to the point.

I wish for all the world we could have a little Q & A with this teacher. It's totally unreasonable to assume this was her first and only attempt at addressing what must, by this point in the year, be a chronic problem with specific students. And it's notable that the complaining parent characterizes the teacher as being generally harsh and unpleasant. I wonder if the parents of her high-achieving students would say the same?

 

[CarolAnn856]

I'm referring to high-school (he wasn't quite so bad in jr. high) but yes, we demanded our DS deal with his teachers himself when his grades were in the tank due to missing assignments, although we were in constant communication with them in the background. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he asked some of them for extra-credit assignments at the 11th hour, although I don't know exactly what was said between them in every instance.

The age of the student doesn't matter. And believe me, we have always had our own kids deal directly with teachers unless we really needed to step in (extremely rare). I interpreted your comment to say that you would expect your child to ask for extra credit even if he had other assignments outstanding. That seemed to be the focus of the note.

 

[MrsPete]

I make sure to give out an extra credit assignment early in the grading term, when very few kids are worried about their grades. I tell them that it is worth the effort and will come in handy later, when the real work begins. Only a few take me up on it.
Sure enough, about a month later, students ask me if I offer any extra credit. I love responding with "Yes! Just last month! Didn't you take advantage of it when I told you to?" Hopefully that's not too demeaning.

I teach high school seniors, and I do something similar:
- In my first-day syllabus, I explain that I will offer extra-credit throughout the semester ... it will always be an extension of the work we're doing in class ... it will always be offered to the whole class.
- I will never offer personalized extra credit just to one student because his grades are poor. That's unfair.

Typically my good students choose to do the extra credit, and my poor students never even consider doing it. Additionally, my poor students -- if they ask -- want to dictate the terms of extra credit. They want to negotiate, "How about I make a poster on ____, and that'll count for about 500 points?" No, no. I don't play that game.

As for the letter in question, I would not have sent it out to the whole class. If specific students asked for extra credit, I would've personalized it for them; for example, "Johnny, I see that you didn't turn in five of the fifteen homework assignments, and you only wrote one of the two papers. You had options for extra credit three times, and you didn't use any of them."

Last thought on this teacher's specific letter: I wouldn't have said that "experience tells me" students don't do extra credit -- though it's the truth. It's not fair to assume that because past students didn't do it, these students wouldn't do it. I mean, I can tell you right now -- probably with 90% accuracy -- which of my students will fail the state final exam. Doesn't mean I shouldn't give them the chance to take it.

My oldest...ugh. He does ALL the work, but NEVER turns it in. His gradebooks are littered with 4/5, 24/30, 40/50, etc. All would be PERFECT grades, but he turns them in late. So, it is an automatic 20% drop in grade . Then, he is not a good test taker, so his grades falter there.

This is middle school behavior, and he will outgrow it.

The poor test-taker thing, eh, I'm less inclined to believe that. I have encountered VERY FEW students over the years who genuinely do all the work, understand it, then freeze up on test day. Of course, your child may be one of those students, but -- in my experience, and I hope this isn't too direct -- is that kids who don't do well on tests tend not to have done all their reading /tend not to have studied effectively for the test.

 

[ronandannette]

The age of the student doesn't matter. And believe me, we have always had our own kids deal directly with teachers unless we really needed to step in (extremely rare). I interpreted your comment to say that you would expect your child to ask for extra credit even if he had other assignments outstanding. That seemed to be the focus of the note.

Not specifically that, no. We expected him to look her in the eye and ask what needed to happen for him to get back on track. Largely rhetorical though - he knew, we knew and the teachers knew we knew.

 

[neverlandsky]

Teacher was in the wrong with this letter. It could of been easily addressed at the beginning of year/term with a syllabus and/or classroom expectations that both parents and the student (K-12th) have to sign and agree to.

This is the following I’ve seen in my kids syllabus/classroom expectations over the years.
*There will be no extra credit for this course.
*Extra Credit - None.
*Assignments are worth a big percentage of course grade. There will be no extra credit. Late/absent assignment policies.

 

[ronandannette]

Teacher was in the wrong with this letter. It could of been easily addressed at the beginning of year/term with a syllabus and/or classroom expectations that both parents and the student (K-12th) have to sign and agree to.

This is the following I’ve seen in my kids syllabus/classroom expectations over the years.
*There will be no extra credit for this course.
*Extra Credit - None.
*Assignments are worth a big percentage of course grade. There will be no extra credit. Late/absent assignment policies.

What makes you think it wasn't?

 

[CarolAnn856]

Teacher was in the wrong with this letter. It could of been easily addressed at the beginning of year/term with a syllabus and/or classroom expectations that both parents and the student (K-12th) have to sign and agree to.

This is the following I’ve seen in my kids syllabus/classroom expectations over the years.
*There will be no extra credit for this course.
*Extra Credit - None.
*Assignments are worth a big percentage of course grade. There will be no extra credit. Late/absent assignment policies.

Why are you assuming that none of that happened? We're seeing one tiny piece of a vast array of communication that has happened this school year.

 

[Minnesota!]

This is middle school behavior, and he will outgrow it.

The poor test-taker thing, eh, I'm less inclined to believe that. I have encountered VERY FEW students over the years who genuinely do all the work, understand it, then freeze up on test day. Of course, your child may be one of those students, but -- in my experience, and I hope this isn't too direct -- is that kids who don't do well on tests tend not to have done all their reading /tend not to have studied effectively for the test.

I wish on the MS behavior - this has been his "thing" for far too long (and, he is in high school...). He literally sits at the table, does it all, and then it sits in his binder until I say "WTH, you have 4 missing assignments in Spanish!!". Then, he turns them in. I do not know why there is a disconnect. It would be fantastic if he would outgrow it before adulthood.

As far as test taking - he sucks at comprehension when reading if it is not something he has interest in. He has a photographic memory for anything that sparks his fire, but if he doesn't...he just puts in the bare minimum. So, when I say he is a poor test taker, I mean it. He just doesn't care about certain things and, for the most part, bombs the tests. He doesn't care about history or English or most of science. He will retain some information, but just enough to get a somewhat passing grade. We have worked with him on comprehension issues since kindergarten or so - but it just him not WANTING to comprehend.

Now, ask him who the PBA bowler of the year in 1982 was and he can tell you that, the person's stats, wife's name, and how tall he is. Ask him anything about math or art or baseball, and he won't shut up. He knows every single thing he has learned in his life. It is very frustrating to get the kid to understand he just has to do this ish for another few years until he can choose his own path. I get where the teacher came from, and I understand why teachers are leaving the profession daily (My BFF is one of those...). My younger son has a brain injury that makes certain things very difficult, but even he doesn't make me pull my hair out like my older one! The straight up laziness makes me crazy

 

[MrsPete]

I wish on the MS behavior - this has been his "thing" for far too long (and, he is in high school...). He literally sits at the table, does it all, and then it sits in his binder until I say "WTH, you have 4 missing assignments in Spanish!!". Then, he turns them in. I do not know why there is a disconnect. It would be fantastic if he would outgrow it before adulthood.

That's middle school behavior, even if he's in high school -- boys are definitely "younger" than girls in high school, regardless of their chronological age. Has he just started high school?

... when reading if it is not something he has interest in ... but if he doesn't...he just puts in the bare minimum ... He just doesn't care about certain things ... but it just him not WANTING to comprehend ...

You're not describing a test-taking problem. It's a focus problem; you even said laziness. From what I hear you saying, if he were to encounter a state test with a reading passage on bowling, he'd ace it. Why? Because he'd enjoy the reading, and he'd focus on it.

 

[Hikergirl]

I wish for all the world we could have a little Q & A with this teacher. It's totally unreasonable to assume this was her first and only attempt at addressing what must, by this point in the year, be a chronic problem with specific students. And it's notable that the complaining parent characterizes the teacher as being generally harsh and unpleasant. I wonder if the parents of her high-achieving students would say the same?

Meant to quote @neverlandsky too

It is the last quarter of the year here, one more report card.
They mention "progress reports" are coming out- that means that those stuents (and their parents) were most likely notified throughout the year of any issues effecting grades. We get them in the middle of each quarter, so every 5 weeks we are getting some kind of indication of our students grade (progress report and then report card).
I'm guessing the parents and students have ignored them the last 3 quarters and students still aren't handing in their work, and this note was one last attempt to get theirs and their parents attention before the year ends.

 

[mom2rtk]

What makes you think it wasn't?

Why are you assuming that none of that happened? We're seeing one tiny piece of a vast array of communication that has happened this school year.

If that was all outlined on the syllabus, then there's no need for the letter. Just calmly point them back to the syllabus and let the natural consequences take place.

 

[ronandannette]

Meant to quote @neverlandsky too

It is the last quarter of the year here, one more report card.
They mention "progress reports" are coming out- that means that those stuents (and their parents) were most likely notified throughout the year of any issues effecting grades. We get them in the middle of each quarter, so every 5 weeks we are getting some kind of indication of our students grade (progress report and then report card).
I'm guessing the parents and students have ignored them the last 3 quarters and students still aren't handing in their work, and this note was one last attempt to get theirs and their parents attention before the year ends.

I think exactly the same thing.

 

[DisneyOma]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. "Even if I did give you an assignment for "replacement credit" you probably wouldn't do it anyway" is the teacher throwing a fit. And it's unprofessional.

Say what you mean, mean what you say. Say no and move on. No letter even required.

So the kid will go home and say that the teacher was mean and wouldn't let him do this or that. The letter states exactly what the teacher would have said, so the parents get it too. Your definition of throwing a fit is that anything above a meek 'oh of course' (maybe just the letters N and O together) is a fit? Pointing out a trend that when given the work, they are aren't doing it, is throwing a fit? If that's your definition, then most kids in school are throwing fits all day. Is that appropriate behavior for them?

I just don't think that accomplishes anything. YMMV.

I think this explains it all - do you consider consequences a thing of the past?

I thought it was a very rudely worded letter. If she wanted to get her point across, there are better ways to say what she said.

I bet she said them until her tongue went numb. I bet she typed them in emails to parents until her fingers went numb.

I agree.

A simple: "I do not offer extra credit in this class. Please do not inquire about this at anytime during the school year, as it will not be granted" written on the syllabus would have been professional and up front about expectations. The syllabus is handed out on the first day of class. Have the students take it home and require a signature from the parents that they have read what will be covered in class, and the rules of the class (including no extra credit).

Any students (or parents) that ask about extra credit throughout the year could be answered with a calm and factual tone. "Please check your syllabus. I do not offer extra credit."

Professional and to the point.

See above - bet that was already done, over and over and over and over...

The age of the student doesn't matter. And believe me, we have always had our own kids deal directly with teachers unless we really needed to step in (extremely rare). I interpreted your comment to say that you would expect your child to ask for extra credit even if he had other assignments outstanding. That seemed to be the focus of the note.

The age of a student does matter. I'd never expect a letter like this for PreK through 4th grade.

Teacher was in the wrong with this letter. It could of been easily addressed at the beginning of year/term with a syllabus and/or classroom expectations that both parents and the student (K-12th) have to sign and agree to.

This is the following I’ve seen in my kids syllabus/classroom expectations over the years.
*There will be no extra credit for this course.
*Extra Credit - None.
*Assignments are worth a big percentage of course grade. There will be no extra credit. Late/absent assignment policies.

See above - I'm betting it was repeated, and repeated, and repeated...

As far as test taking - he sucks at comprehension when reading if it is not something he has interest in. He has a photographic memory for anything that sparks his fire, but if he doesn't...he just puts in the bare minimum. So, when I say he is a poor test taker, I mean it. He just doesn't care about certain things and, for the most part, bombs the tests.

This is not what being 'a poor test taker' means at all. This is not being prepared for a test, not knowing the content. Being a poor test taker means either having such a high level of anxiety that facts and knowledge can't be accessed usefully during testing, or not being able to read at a certain level to understand what the questions are asking but having the knowledge to answer if asked a different way. I spend most of my day helping students with test taking issues. Putting in the bare minimum is not a test taking issue. It's an effort/maturity issue. I'd have to say it's not a comprehension issue either, as it's more of a focus issue, right?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Doesn't matter what the teacher says at the beginning of the year; there are those students (with the backing of their parents) that ask/demand for an out.

And that's why you put it in the syllabus. You say it courteously and professionally at the beginning of the year in writing and get it signed. You have then made expectations clear and you can easily point out they signed it if anyone makes any demands to the contrary. You don't send nasty letters like that to parents near the end of the grading period. And you don't send them out without clearing them either. That isn't professional.