Virgin delays

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I've done my own check over the past few months (not using Virgin's published and ...ehem! rather optimistic times) and the figure is a great deal less than 62%!

Also, I'm expected to get to the airport well in time for my flight and if I'm late I miss the flight. I find it disgusting that airlines can say anything up to an hour is acceptable.

Obi, you may well find a delay of 1 hour acceptable but I can assure you, I do not (and I'd be interested to know whether others feel a 1 hour delay with Virgin is acceptable). Virgin has been experiencing major delays for a number of months now, far in excess of competitor airlines. We all expect the odd delay from the major airlines but at this rate Virgin will be competing against the likes of Globespan in the lack of performance stakes.

First of all, the 62% figure is not Virgin Atlantic's figures.
these are the industry figures based upon when an aircraft takes off from an airport and lands at an airport using the ARCARS system.

Part of the reason many flights do not depart on time is the passengers who eitrher arrive at the last minute, get stuck in long queues at Security, "lose" their way from the bars and Duty free to the departure gate etc...Also the information obtained from API has to be transmitted to the USA before a flight can take off now.
When you miss your slot you can then be delayed at peak times and this is a fine timeline for Transatlantic flights.
Add ton this awful weather and inbound flights and all airlines to smome degree have delays. Find an airline with a 100% on time figure.
Virgin also have been effected by the use before hand on the VS15 flight of the aircraft being used on the Las vegas run, which can run late.


No airline wants to have a late timing, but circumstances and the way we all fly today effect them.
When you have less routes then aircraft can be ready overnight for take off, when you have multiple routes then this gets quite tight. Its the same for all airlines.

Actually, Flyglobespan have a better overall (don't forget the majority of their flights are European) departure on time than Vuirgin!
FGS are 20 out of 21, Virgin are 21st.

Aircraft are not like other forms of transportation, but then again, what is the on time performance of Busses and trains, which have a specified timing and route without in the case of trains, anything else on the line to impede them?
What is your car journey on time performance?

I do say one hour is acceptable, what is the rush? you are supposed to be on vacation, its not a race. If an aircraft takes off "on time" or not, it still takes the same amount of time to get over the pond. (yes, different airlines fly different aircraft and heights so speeds do come into it of course )

Over 1 hour is not acceptable without due reason. If that becomes the norm with an airline then that does need to be investigated and rightly complained about.

PS as an aside, On July 3 VS27 took off 2 Mins EARLY, arrived 17 mins EARLY
So that will change your data (ROFL) (Though as normal VS15 was late)
Seriously thats why you should use the industry figures not a snapshot.

 

[Cinderella2006]

Nobody wants to be delayed when they are going on their holidays but sometimes due to circumstances beyond our control, it does happen. I don’t mind waiting an hour; you have got to be willing to give and take a little.

We have been reading about Virgin delays every since we booked with them; we are flying in August. Am I worried? No, there is nothing that I can do about it so I will just have to prepare as I will be nearly five months pregnant so hoping for no serious delays!

 

[Still thinking......]

Obi, is it mainly Virgin's holiday destination flights that are affected by these delays?

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Obi, is it mainly Virgin's holiday destination flights that are affected by these delays?

Well,,,,,,,,,

Heathrow is the most punctual, with LHR-Sydney and LHR-Shanghai they are the most punctual on those routes.
The worst are
LHR-Dubai 23% 1 hour plus late, 2.23% 3 hours late
LHR-Delhi 18.89% one hour plus late, 0.56 3 hours plus late
Average delay for VS Heathrow flight: 27 mins, 9% 1 hour plus late, 1.36% 3 hours plus late.

At Gatwick, the more B & S (Bucket & Spade) routes:
Worst are:
LGW-Havana 14% 1 hour plus late, 6% 3 hours plus late
LGW-Montego Bay, 19.23% 1 hour plus late, 5.77% 3 hours plus late.

LGW-Orlando is 23.99% 1 hour plus late, 3.74% 3 hours plus late. Average delay 41.66 mins

Gatwick avergae delay for Vs is 34.73 Mins, 17.19% 1hour plus late, 2.87% 3 hlours plus late

Manchester
worst delays
MAN-St Lucia 42.31% 1 hour plus, 15.38% 3 hours plus (Average mins 145.12!!!)
Man-Orlando (best of the three flights) 11.17% 1 hour plus late, 1.02 3 hours plus late ave mins delayed 21.07 mins

Manchester average delay is 34.90 (though St Lucia must have big effect on this) 14.52% 1 hour plus 2.82% 3 hours plus

I can give you other airlines if you want a specific one (not many charters though)

 

[Goofyish]

Looking at all the Virgin routes, do you think that the Orlando route is treated or viewed any different from the other routes by Virgin managment?

I sometimes feel that as it's a mainly vacation (bucket and spade) route it's not treated the same way as perhaps the LA or NY routes and is certainly never seen as a priority to Virgin management.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Looking at all the Virgin routes, do you think that the Orlando route is treated or viewed any different from the other routes by Virgin managment?

I sometimes feel that as it's a mainly vacation (bucket and spade) route it's not treated the same way as perhaps the LA or NY routes and is certainly never seen as a priority to Virgin management.

I don't think it is treated any differently to any other route from Gatwick or Manchester.

However, yes I do believe that the Gatwick and Manchester flights are treated worse than the Heathrow high buisness class revenue routes.

Why do I say this?
Well in Buisness class (UC) you do not get the in flight beauty therapist, at Manchester you do not get a Clubhouse, the 747's are the last to be upgraded after the A300's the In flight entertainment is the worst of the three available and was not upgraded when the UC suites were fitted, and the layout of the LGW/MAN aircraft compared to the LHR aircraft is tailored towards B & S seats more than premium seats.

Then again, I think all airlines treat the Orlando routes as second to the higher revenue routes. Where is the BA First cabin for example?

But I think the passengers have to take some blame as they want the cheapest seats they can find compared to scheduled passengers at Heathrow, most of whom the companies pay their seats. Whne you don't get the profit margins, you are less inclined to spend out on new upgrades.

 

[MorningGlory]

Ive been checking VS27 most days for the last few weeks and most days it has either gone on time or within 45 mins and even when its late it has been landing early! Hope its like that on the 5th August.

We pulled away from the apron at Manchester 20 minutes late, took off about 20 minutes later, so I dont know if that is classed as 20 mins or 40 mins late

Anyway, we landed 30 mins early, which imo is the more important of the two (although we got stuck on the tarmac for a while through no fault of the airline).

Virgin always seem to make up time on their flights across the Atlantic...

 

[Boudica]

We pulled away from the apron at Manchester 20 minutes late, took off about 20 minutes later, so I dont know if that is classed as 20 mins or 40 mins late

I would say 40 minutes late, however the airlines would only quote 20 minutes. For me, leaving the hub and and then sitting on the runway for "x" minutes doesn't count as a departure. Airlines have a policiy similar to many so called "efficient" European Railways.

For example:

1. You have 100 trains
2. All 100 leave their starting station on-time.
3. All 100 then stop 500 metres from the station for 30 minutes
4. All 100 arrive at their destination 30 minutes late

The outcome is that all trains "departed" on time and were held up on route by various excuses and the metrics show only 100 late arrivals and no late departures. It makes things look better.

You'll find lots of airlines do the same with the "hub". They "depart" when they detach from the hub and then sit on the runway waiting to take off. It makes their internal metrics look a lot better.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I would say 40 minutes late, however the airlines would only quote 20 minutes. For me, leaving the hub and and then sitting on the runway for "x" minutes doesn't count as a departure. Airlines have a policiy similar to many so called "efficient" European Railways.

For example:

1. You have 100 trains
2. All 100 leave their starting station on-time.
3. All 100 then stop 500 metres from the station for 30 minutes
4. All 100 arrive at their destination 30 minutes late

The outcome is that all trains "departed" on time and were held up on route by various excuses and the metrics show only 100 late arrivals and no late departures. It makes things look better.

You'll find lots of airlines do the same with the "hub". They "depart" when they detach from the hub and then sit on the runway waiting to take off. It makes their internal metrics look a lot better.

The difference is that they depart the hub/Airbridge when the airport allows them to do so after they have all pax on board and all checks carried out.
They also depart the runway when the airport allows them to. they cant just trundle to the end of the runway and go whenever they like!

 

[MorningGlory]

I would say 40 minutes late, however the airlines would only quote 20 minutes. For me, leaving the hub and and then sitting on the runway for "x" minutes doesn't count as a departure. Airlines have a policiy similar to many so called "efficient" European Railways.

For example:

1. You have 100 trains
2. All 100 leave their starting station on-time.
3. All 100 then stop 500 metres from the station for 30 minutes
4. All 100 arrive at their destination 30 minutes late

The outcome is that all trains "departed" on time and were held up on route by various excuses and the metrics show only 100 late arrivals and no late departures. It makes things look better.

You'll find lots of airlines do the same with the "hub". They "depart" when they detach from the hub and then sit on the runway waiting to take off. It makes their internal metrics look a lot better.

Im not sure about the train part, but Virgin can't really be faulted for the 20 mins or so from when it left the apron. There were 4 planes in front of us taking off, and several landed also.

Of course, it's all about opinions If an aircraft left the departure gate then just 'loitered' somewhere in the airport (which I really don't think would be possible...) I would be a bit miffed. But joining a queue imo shouldn't count as part of the lateness.

And as I pointed out getting you there early, regardless of when you leave, is surely more important

 

[Boudica]

The difference is that they depart the hub/Airbridge when the airport allows them to do so after they have all pax on board and all checks carried out.
They also depart the runway when the airport allows them to. they cant just trundle to the end of the runway and go whenever they like!

Im not sure about the train part, but Virgin can't really be faulted for the 20 mins or so from when it left the apron. There were 4 planes in front of us taking off, and several landed also.

Of course, it's all about opinions If an aircraft left the departure gate then just 'loitered' somewhere in the airport (which I really don't think would be possible...) I would be a bit miffed. But joining a queue imo shouldn't count as part of the lateness.

And as I pointed out getting you there early, regardless of when you leave, is surely more important

However, when you depart the hub a few minutes late you will then find that you've most probably missed your original departure point and then have to wait for the next available slot. So it is the airlines fault for the full delay in take-off due to their initial inefficiency (if I were 1 minute late for my train and missed it and then had to wait 30 minutes for the next, therefore missing an appointment by 31 minutes, I wouldn't claim I was only 1 minute late and it was the railways fault for the other 30).

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

However, when you depart the hub a few minutes late you will then find that you've most probably missed your original departure point and then have to wait for the next available slot. So it is the airlines fault for the full delay in take-off due to their initial inefficiency (if I were 1 minute late for my train and missed it and then had to wait 30 minutes for the next, therefore missing an appointment by 31 minutes, I wouldn't claim I was only 1 minute late and it was the railways fault for the other 30).

You cannot make that generalisation Boudica.
So many factors can make you late departing the airbridge including pax getting to the aircraft late, missing passengers, head counts being wrong, people taking their time getting into their seats, late deliveries of the catering, late bags being loaded, even on one flight I was on the late delivery from the Duty free of the bags, all out of the airlines control.
Another time it was the airbridge operator had gone missing and another time, the tug to pull away from the bridge was late.

Many people see "last call for boarding" as their last chance to order a final pint.
I knew one giy who would not go to the gate until his name was called, he would also order coffee as the aircraft was getting ready for finals.!

 

[MorningGlory]

However, when you depart the hub a few minutes late you will then find that you've most probably missed your original departure point and then have to wait for the next available slot. So it is the airlines fault for the full delay in take-off due to their initial inefficiency (if I were 1 minute late for my train and missed it and then had to wait 30 minutes for the next, therefore missing an appointment by 31 minutes, I wouldn't claim I was only 1 minute late and it was the railways fault for the other 30).

Fair enough point. Im doing a trip report at the moment and did mention in it though that our flight out was 20 mins late, but we actually expected it to be about an hour (the previous flight was late in arriving).

On that occasion, I think Virgin were to be commended for turning the flight around so quickly. It was around 40-50 mins between landing, disembarking, cleaning etc and allowing passengers to begin boarding.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Of course, it's all about opinions If an aircraft left the departure gate then just 'loitered' somewhere in the airport (which I really don't think would be possible...)

Chicago O'Hare!!!!

You go miles and miles to get to the runway! (including a trip over the main highway)

 

[Still thinking......]

Thankyou Obi, for all the time and effort you take answering peoples questions.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thankyou Obi, for all the time and effort you take answering peoples questions.

The joys of Broadband always on connection and working VERY long hours in the office

 

[Boudica]

You cannot make that generalisation Boudica.

Many people see "last call for boarding" as their last chance to order a final pint.
I knew one giy who would not go to the gate until his name was called, he would also order coffee as the aircraft was getting ready for finals.!

Yes I can, and I did.

Also, the airline has the power in stop the above people from flying.

However, let me remind you of the OP's statement with regards to the current trend with Virgin:

Have u noticed how virgin seems to be delayed every morning and arrives late
They always used to be on time

...and also my initial reply:

We all expect the odd delay from the major airlines .....

...but Virgin seem to be experiencing regular delays which stretches the imagination of all the excuses that they would like to use.

The joys of Broadband always on connection and working VERY long hours in the office

Does Sir Richard know this?

(By the way, as Avonia says, you're doing a great job of answering people's questions ).

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Yes I can, and I did.

Also, the airline has the power in stop the above people from flying.

However, let me remind you of the OP's statement with regards to the current trend with Virgin:


...and also my initial reply:



...but Virgin seem to be experiencing regular delays which stretches the imagination of all the excuses that they would like to use.



Does Sir Richard know this?

(By the way, as Avonia says, you're doing a great job of answering people's questions ).

I aim to please

You need to see my posting regarding Virgins place in the on-time list

Airlines do stop the late comers from flying, but the problem with that is they have to get the bins out of the hold (747's have containers which the luggage is loaded into) and search for the luggage, which again makes them late.

The funny thing is that I DO know SRB

 

[Stitch's Greatest Fa]

I really wish people would stop hyping up the delays. Many flights get delayed for various reasons every day. Yes it is frustrating and annoying (we suffered a 22 hour delay with TCD 2 years ago) but speculating about flights some time in advance isn't helpful, no-one can see the future. SO I say sit back, relax and try not to worry.

 

[Red-Snapper]

On the other hand if people on here didnt post and discuss their worries then this board would be a very boring collection of single digit dance threads and queries about tour guide Mike