Vent-Explain my BIL to me please!

[rowbear]

This may work out for you, but I would never, ever let my kids spend 1 week (let alone 2 or more) with my sisters, SILs or BIL. Just won't happen ever. Not that I don't trust them, I just truly don't see a need for that. A sleepover one night? Fine. A weekend is okay too. But a week is unnecessary. I wouldn't even send my kids to my mom's or MIL's for a week. Not that I think they wouldn't be cared for, I know they will, but I just think it's too long. Now, if they're teens and my mom wants to take 1 of them on a special trip, I would likely agree to that. But just to sit at her home for a week, why?

I would most definitely want my family (or my husband's family for that matter) to stay in contact with our kids should something happen to one of us, but that can be accomplished without 2 week long visits. Why didn't the OP invite her BIL, new wife, and the niece to stay with them for a weekend? Or plan to meet up somewhere between them both to spend the day together? Why does it have to be 2 weeks alone with the niece?

It has everything to do with the amount of time. The longer a child stays at a relative the more a part of their family he or she becomes which helps form stronger bonds. You can't get to know someone on an overnight visit or even over a single weekend. Kids grow up and develop at such a fast rate of speed you need plenty of time to get to know them and see what kind of person they are growing up to be.

And there is no substitute for having them in person. Getting to know someone over the phone or computer doesn't make that person as real.

I just can't figure out what you are protecting them from. If the child gets homesick they can just come home early. If not, what is the worse that can happen? Stronger family bonds?

 

[Nancyg56]

I just wanted to add that my first husbands sister had a very hard time with me and the kids and wanted us out of the family. That was her right to restrict her own visits as well as her children . She did and I respected it. I kept every door open but stopped pursuing visits with the kids, so our relationship was superficial at best. She is now gone, my poor MIL has buried three of her four children, and her DD has developed a warm and caring relationship with my children and with me. She and her brother never had that before, she told me recently that she would never be able to tell me how much she loved me and how much it mattered that I had never just abandoned her and her brother. She knew that I had always loved the both of them. We have never spoken about how her Mother felt, except in a joking, family way, and I know that I never will but that young lady made it very clear to me that she had suffered by the enforced separation, they were made to feel guilty whenever they had conversations with any of us outside of their Mother's hearing, even as they became adults. When I told her that she did not need to tell me, that I always knew how she felt she was in tears.

This woman had the right to keep her family from me, I was not longer related to her and the "legal" relationship between her children and me died with her brother. She felt better but her kids lost so much more than me, they lost their cousins for a long time and they also lost the ties that my children took for granted.

The adults and their feelings aside in this thread, I keep wondering what the little girl wants and who is listening to her

 

[mumom95]

I would like to weigh in on this discussion, I was in the same situation as the OP's BIL. My first husband passed away when my children were very young. It could have been a very awkward situation, my former IL's really had a very hard time with his loss, the fact that I got involved with another man after his death and then were very concerned thatI would keep the children away from them. In all honesty, juggling an "outlaw" family is hard. My IL's had had experience with ex family members keeping kids away so they had the history to worry. I understood how they felt and did all that I could to make them understand that I would never do that. The fact that I was here and their son was not must have been very hard for them. Their comfort level would have been higher if they just let my kids go, they would not need to deal with me and I would never had had to deal woth them, and the man I was involved with, along with his family could live like there was no past for me. But there were three kids who needed to know their father's family, their own history and know that they wer not buried along with their father. So we all figured it out.

At that time there were no rights for them once their son died. One threat, made in fear from my MIL was enough for me to check and then set her and their fears straight. I won't pretend that the first two years were easy, they were not. Their fears made them press and I am afraid that I avoided them when the stress would have been too much. I did not like feeling pressured and they did not like feeling that they were losing their grandchildren. Thank GOd they did not give up and THank God I was not stubborn and thank God my husband and his family were all onboard that the kids deserved an intact family. I have two sets of IL's, Buddy has a set on IL's and Outlaws and my kids have a large family. My husband is part of the family and he is wonderful as is my former MIL. I am so glad we all did this togehter and worked out the stress, the fear of losing more made them act adn the pressure made me react. It was not always an easy relationship but for all of us, it is a blessing relationship.



Easy for you to say. She is fighting to keep her sister's child in her life. This is not an easy fight, and as a Mother who was in the BIL's shoes, it would be easier to pretend this family never existed. Is it okay for his DD? Probably not but she really cannot choose....her father has the "right". SO the BIL does not have to agree but if Punkin gives up and lets him live a life that excludes his former wife's family that child most likely will never have the opportunity to remain a part of her Mother's family.Believe me, I understand the "right" of a parent in this circumstance and if there was any indication that my child was going to hear anything that compromised my family I would say no. But just to make my life more comfortable...sorry, there is an "obligation" there.



That is the thing, losing a brother or sister can mean losing an entire family. My former IL's were devastated when Donald died, losing his children too? I am so grateful taht we all worked this out, my DMIL is teh rock in our lives right now, she is the strongest woman I know and while my Dh, after close to 30 years, gets a little tired of spending every Holiday together, he supports that my DGD sees an intact family...the more people who love her the better off she is.



We all understand that the BIL has the last word. Parents usually do with their kids. Yes, he has a new wife and the child has a new Mother". Do his feelings negate those of his DD? If the child wants to see her Aunt then someone needs to help her to do so. Children's wants and needs so often come after their parents in this kind of situation. It would make the BIL's life so much easier if his diseased wife's family just slipped away but these people may be exactly what the child needs. I can tell you that I am one stubborn woman and would often be annoyed when I was pressed by my IL's. They were not always right but neither was I. The only thing that made this work out was that we both put our ego's aside, stoopped worrying about "rights" and put the children first.



I can gaurantee that if my IL's had stopped asking I would have been grateful to go on with my life with no discomfort. My MIl and I both agree that we both really wanted to block the pain and could have gone on with our own lives, it would have been easier in teh short run. My children would have been the losers. We are all better off now but those first few years were difficult at best. If there is no vist this summer ther will probably be no visit next year. I have had conversations with people who have never seen their relatives children after a death, they all sort of quietly drifted apart.



I am horrified as well. The one time my MIL let that little tidbit slip I had to have a difficult conversation with her and DFIL. No one would ever threaten me. I needed to trust that the children's relationship with me and with the man I was going to eventually marry would not be undermined once they were with their father's family. They needed to trust that I was not going to undermine them as grandparents, aunts and uncles.


I think a better solution for all of this pussyfooting around between the Op and the BIL is a real conversation. Why is he worried? Is his new wife feeling compromised? Is is just easier to let the OP's family drift away? There is a reason and both parties need to put their own feelings aside and be honest with each other.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm glad you told us your experience, it puts everything into perspective. Here's a family that has been put through a lot of pain. And a little girl, who obviously has a lot of people that care about her and want to do what's best for her. And none of us know the whole story. I'm sure they'll figure it out in time, and do what's best for the little girl. It does sound like they just need to sit down and talk it out.

 

[rowbear]

There is something else to be said for nice long family visits. God forbid anything every happen to my BiL and SiL at least my nephew can come live with us and we won't be strangers to him. We have been a strong part of his life since he was a baby and he is perfectly comfortable now spending more and more time with us. I know everything about that child. I know his allergies, I know his habits, I know what he likes to eat, I know that he will start obsessing over the weirdest things when he is tired, and I know how to minimize the risk for his asthma but also how to give him breathing treatments if he needs them. I also know that when I have him out in public that he is so outgoing I have to watch him like a hawk because he thinks everyone is his best friend including total strangers.

I didn't learn all that in an overnight stay.

 

[Mom2Nick]

There is something else to be said for nice long family visits. God forbid anything every happen to my BiL and SiL at least my nephew can come live with us and we won't be strangers to him. We have been a strong part of his life since he was a baby and he is perfectly comfortable now spending more and more time with us. I know everything about that child. I know his allergies, I know his habits, I know what he likes to eat, I know that he will start obsessing over the weirdest things when he is tired, and I know how to minimize the risk for his asthma but also how to give him breathing treatments if he needs them. I also know that when I have him out in public that he is so outgoing I have to watch him like a hawk because he thinks everyone is his best friend including total strangers.

I didn't learn all that in an overnight stay.

I know all those things about my nieces and nephews - all 10 of them - and not one of them has spent a week or more sleeping at my house.

 

[smfritz03]

What is wrong with people not to allow their child (if age appropriate and the adults are capable) to spend any extended time with family?

Me and my ex are split. He has siblings that live out of state. If something were to happen to him, I'd still allow our dd to go and stay and visit for a week with his siblings. That is family, that is her ONLY extension to her dad. Who am I to say, sorry--death means no more family time? I don't get that?

To me---at the end of our life---what do we have if we don't have our families and I don't want to be the one to deny my child that. If something were to happen to me, I don't want my family to be denied that time either.

When distance is a factor-an overnight just isn't pratical. If no distance, than a weekend here and there seems better than a week away unless that week is going somewhere like a family reunion that is out of town.

I want my kids raised rooted in family. Not just MY family--but ALL of their family.

 

[sbell111]

My wife and I are having a baby. I have a SIL. If my wife were to die (heaven forbid), my child would never spend unsupervised time with my SIL. That would never, ever happen. To put it as nicely as possible, she is simply not an acceptable role model for my child.

 

[rowbear]

I know all those things about my nieces and nephews - all 10 of them - and not one of them has spent a week or more sleeping at my house.

Yeah but is more than just knowledge. I am one of his male role models. We have a strong bond. I am not just some picture in an album to him I am deeply integrated into his life. This is something that takes time and plenty of it to get done. Our house is his second home. He loves coming and hates leaving.

Then there is the extended time he spends with his grandparents. This gives him a sense of his family legacy. One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't know my grandparents better. I wish my parents had been better at getting me places so I could have a better sense of my heritage.

 

[Missy1961]

There is something else to be said for nice long family visits. God forbid anything every happen to my BiL and SiL at least my nephew can come live with us and we won't be strangers to him. We have been a strong part of his life since he was a baby and he is perfectly comfortable now spending more and more time with us. I know everything about that child. I know his allergies, I know his habits, I know what he likes to eat, I know that he will start obsessing over the weirdest things when he is tired, and I know how to minimize the risk for his asthma but also how to give him breathing treatments if he needs them. I also know that when I have him out in public that he is so outgoing I have to watch him like a hawk because he thinks everyone is his best friend including total strangers.

I didn't learn all that in an overnight stay.

Yeah but is more than just knowledge. I am one of his male role models. We have a strong bond. I am not just some picture in an album to him I am deeply integrated into his life. This is something that takes time and plenty of it to get done. Our house is his second home. He loves coming and hates leaving.

Then there is the extended time he spends with his grandparents. This gives him a sense of his family legacy. One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't know my grandparents better. I wish my parents had been better at getting me places so I could have a better sense of my heritage.

I know all those things about my 14 nieces and nephews--and none of them have spent a week with me. I have spent loads of time with them in their homes while their parents were there. I have watched 2 of them in their home while their parents have gone out of town, but it wasn't more than 4 days. I've gone to their schools, met their teachers & friends, seen their soccer games & their school plays. If, God forbid, something happened to one of my sisters, I feel confident that either of my BILs would be happy to have me continue to be in the kids lifes. But I would never beg either of them to allow the kids to spend time alone with me. I'd ask, but if he said no, I'd step back. I'd visit them in their home--much like I do now. I'd take them to the movies in their usual movie theater--just like I do now. You don't need tons of alone time with kids to forge a bond.

 

[rowbear]

I know all those things about my 14 nieces and nephews--and none of them have spent a week with me. I have spent loads of time with them in their homes while their parents were there. I have watched 2 of them in their home while their parents have gone out of town, but it wasn't more than 4 days. I've gone to their schools, met their teachers & friends, seen their soccer games & their school plays. If, God forbid, something happened to one of my sisters, I feel confident that either of my BILs would be happy to have me continue to be in the kids lifes. But I would never beg either of them to allow the kids to spend time alone with me. I'd ask, but if he said no, I'd step back. I'd visit them in their home--much like I do now. I'd take them to the movies in their usual movie theater--just like I do now. You don't need tons of alone time with kids to forge a bond.

When he is here for extended periods he becomes part of my family. He gets into our routine and we spend time together that has nothing to do with being entertained or visiting. It is family time. The boring things like eating meals together, going grocery shopping, running errands, all the little things that make up normal life. The first couple of days after he arrives he is all hyped up to play but then he settles in and by the end we are just family. He has learned how to live with us for a brief time and more importantly when he leaves he always wants to know when he can come back.

Also keep in mind that he lives pretty far away from us. If I were in movie taking range I might be able to accomplish what you have but I don't have that luxury.

 

[lillygator]

I don't get the need for children to be spending weeks at extended family members homes....I alsop don't buy the only way to have a strong bond is to spend weeks spending the night, kind of odd.

 

[Missy1961]

When he is here for extended periods he becomes part of my family. He gets into our routine and we spend time together that has nothing to do with being entertained or visiting. It is family time. The boring things like eating meals together, going grocery shopping, running errands, all the little things that make up normal life. The first couple of days after he arrives he is all hyped up to play but then he settles in and by the end we are just family. He has learned how to live with us for a brief time and more importantly when he leaves he always wants to know when he can come back.

Also keep in mind that he lives pretty far away from us. If I were in movie taking range I might be able to accomplish what you have but I don't have that luxury.

All of my nieces and nephews except 2 live 7 hrs away. I take vacation days to visit them. They come to NY to visit their grandpa & me. So again, you really don't need tons of time to forge a bound.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Look, I too am so sorry that the OP has lost her sister...
But, that does not change the facts...
That does not make it okay (and not WAY out of line) for her to be demanding that her nieces father 'send her up to her' for two full weeks.

I don't see the OP asking to go visit...
I don't see the OP asking for maybe a weekend...
I see her being demanding, unreasonable, crossing boundaries, etc...

Personally, as a parent, I wouldn't be up and sending my son anywhere to two full weeks. Period. No discussion... If there is the kind of animosity that the OP shows towards her BIL, then I can assure that my my response to such a demand would be, "First thing in the morning..." Which, of course, is code for 'Nope, not a chance...'

Even in the best of circumstance, without death or divorce, I think it is completely unacceptable for anyone to think that they have that kind of rights to anybody elses children and to make that kind of request... If it is a beloved Grandma/Aunt/etc. and both sides are happy and okay, than that is wonderful and ideal.... Otherwise, It is completely and 100% unacceptable to have those kinds of expectations and make those kinds of demands.

I have not seen ONE post that said that the BIL was actively 'keeping his kids away from that side of the family'.

It seems the BIL has been working thru his loss, and is moving forward with his life. But, unfortunately, the OP seems to still have some significant issues. I am sorry for her grief!!!! But, to have these kinds of issues and to involve an innocent child, to make that child a 'pawn', a 'battleground', is simply not the best way to go.

Everyone has lost loved ones, or has a certain amount of grief in their life... But, that does not give one carte-blanche to cross boundaries and to make such demands of others.

 

[Mom2Nick]

Yeah but is more than just knowledge. I am one of his male role models. We have a strong bond. I am not just some picture in an album to him I am deeply integrated into his life. This is something that takes time and plenty of it to get done. Our house is his second home. He loves coming and hates leaving.

Then there is the extended time he spends with his grandparents. This gives him a sense of his family legacy. One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't know my grandparents better. I wish my parents had been better at getting me places so I could have a better sense of my heritage.

Good for you - but if you think this type of relationship ONLY occurs when kids spends weeks on end sleeping over then you are fooling yourself.

I can assure you I have a very strong relationship with all of my nieces and nephews. My children see all of them quite often - however - we do not "need" to have week long sleep overs at each other's homes to feel close and to bond.

 

[ksjayhawks]

As C.Ann said and OP verified there is more to the story. I know OP doesn't want to divulge facts, but she could give basic facts without worry such as dn age, how long ds has been gone, how ong dbil has been remarried, if relations with dbil were strained. That would change the replies given, I am sure.

I am one of those parents who let her kids go to grandma and grandpas homes for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. for the first 15 years of our marriage, we lived 4 -9 hours away. We did see a alot of my parents (and aunt who lived with them) during that time; time with inlaws was not as much--their choice. We never worried about our kids as we knew the gp's would be very, very diligent and overprotective, more so than we would.

Why did we do it? So our kids could get to know their grandparents better. (We both grew up with gps in the immediate vicinity that we saw many, many times a week). And the results? Memories! Memories that can never be taken away. They often laugh and talk with their gp's about their visits, they look at pictures, our dd will say to her dd "when I was your age and I was at gp . . ." It was also good for them to learn that people can do things differently than mom and dad and, gasp, they will survive! DBil also sent his kids to the inlaws. It is fun to listen to the cousins talk amongst themselves about their experiences at g/g b's!

I have had dgd for two summers for several weeks--they are in CA and we are in KS. We did not get to have her here this summer and it is breaking both of our hearts as that is our special time together. Next year dgs will be old enough for a visit as well. We can't wait.

I would never send my kids to stay with someone if I didn't trust them, there were activities that were dangerous, they were awful role models for some reason. That is a given.

Each family has to decide for themselves what is best for their kids.

 

[sbell111]

... Personally, as a parent, I wouldn't be up and sending my son anywhere to two full weeks. Period. No discussion... If there is the kind of animosity that the OP shows towards her BIL, then I can assure that my my response to such a demand would be, "First thing in the morning..." Which, of course, is code for 'Nope, not a chance...'

That's funny. For me, it's "Let's see how it goes...".

 

[lillygator]

it's possible the neice doens't want to go.

it's hard to give a clear answer since we don't know the whole story.

 

[Disney Doll]

With the story the way the OP has presented it, I would say she is being a little pushy and out of line.

If there are other facts or extenuating circumstances...well, we don't know them.

 

[rowbear]

All of my nieces and nephews except 2 live 7 hrs away. I take vacation days to visit them. They come to NY to visit their grandpa & me. So again, you really don't need tons of time to forge a bound.

So you travel 7 hours to take family to movies and see their ball games? That just doesn't work for most people.

The more time you spend with someone the stronger the bond. There is no way you can convince me otherwise because it doesn't make sense. Their parents have a stronger bond than you do with them not just because they are their parents but because they live together. You can't possibly believe that visiting with someone for a few days is the same as spending a week or more. When you have that child without their parents you even have more quality time because are not sharing time with the parents. I am not saying you don't have A bond but there are many different levels of bonding with family or friends.

 

[Frantasmic]

Who knows people's motivations? The OP did seem to think/believe that it was normal or expected behavior to allow a young relative to remain connected with her family. I agree with that thought to the extent that it is still the original parent's right to mandate who, what, when, where, etc.

As far as what might be in her BIL's mind, consider this: he lost his wife, an understandable reaction to that, even if taken to the extreme, is to be over-protective of what you do have left. I.E., it's Finding Nemo all over again. Perfectly understandable response.

Give the indicators that OP and DBIL probably haven't had the best relationship since OP's DS passing, and I think you can see that his reluctance to part with his own DD is something that, despite what people may think about it being healthy behavior, it is still something that many who have had a loss, would understand.