vbs daycare problem no more solved..

[Mom2Nick]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then because if it were my kids in daycare 12 hours/day I would WANT them to get out of the house, go to t-ball practice, go play at the park, do the things I would do with them if I were home (and did with them because I was home with them). It sounds like you are happy having your kids stuck at someone's home for 12 hours/day doing the same thing day after day.

I also don't understand that you trust someone enough to watch your child 12 hours/day but you don't trust them to drive them to t-ball practice .

WOW! You left your kids in daycare for 12 hours every day? 6 to 6? 7 to 7? 8 to 8? That is a very long day for kids. If my kids were in daycare for that long then I can see your point - however I would NEVER do that.

My kids are older and only go a few days a week during the summer and they are there 8 to 3 - the exact same time they are in school during the school year. T-Ball and swimming lessons all happen after 6 around here so they are missing nothing those 2 days a week.

They stay put and THAT is specifically why I like this babysitter. Their day is completely filled with fun - she lives on a small farm so there's plenty of things to do, animals to interact with. They spend very little time in the house if it's a nice day. I adore my sitter for many reasons but specifically because while she is "on my time" she is not running her own errands or douing things for herself. She is devoted to watching and entertaining my kids.

 

[luvmy3]

I think that just as the OP takes the kids to the library or other events, this is another event she wanted to expose the children to. Since she can't be with all ages at the same time, she agreed to help in the class with the younger ones. The older ones would be more comfortable leaving her and enjoying the week with friends (or making new friends).

This is nothing like a field trip. The OP is taking time from her daycare kids to do a personal obligation, it doesn't matter how much it will benefit her own daycare kids.

That I get, and I think most people do too. If they just chose not to send their 2yo that week, and she was open, running the normal daycare at home, then they would have to pay. But she, the daycare provider, is choosing to do a personal activity during the hours that she normally watches the kids. When she presented the situation to the parents, she must have given the parents the option of sending the kids or not as the parents of the 2yo opted to leave him home with grandma that week. That was agreed upon when the OP brought up the VBS to the parents, as she said those were the original plans.

I don't know of any daycare that will effectively close for 3 hours a day, for an entire week, but still require the parents to pay their full fee. Actually, I've never heard of one closing at all like that. Field trips? Yes, of course. Activities like the tball mentioned? Great, so long as all the kids are involved. But this is different. It's not like the OP will be sitting and staring at the kids playing tball, or taking them on a guided tour of a museum. She'll be dropping them off at various classrooms, and this isn't really an option for the parents. it's either "send your kid to VBS or find them alternate care." Not like she's just taking the older kids to VBS and staying home with the 2yo who doesn't qualify for any class other than the nursery. He would be babysat by someone else. His parents were aware of this, made alternate plans for him for that week, so why is this an issue now with the OP and expecting payment?


ETA: If they are planning to keep the 2yo home the entire week, but the OP is willing to pick him up after VBS to watch him the rest of the day, then I can see charging a prorated fee in that case. But to charge for the hours that she would not be watching him anyway is what I can't understand.

Just like my kids' daycamp charges a prorated fee for the 4th of July week-they are closed Friday so they don't charge the full week. Because THEY chose to close down. If I pull my kid out a random Friday, I still have to pay for the full week because that is my choice. In this case though, the OP is choosing to effectively shut down her daycare for part of that week, so she needs to incur the lost money, not deflect it onto the parents.

She already said that a full day for her is anything after 4 hours, so if she had that child in her care for even 4.5 hours the parent should pay the full rate.

OP I am partly on your side only because the parents agreed to the terms in advance about the VBS, but I do not believe you should have considered volunteering to teach during your regular daycare hours.

 

[Nennie]

WOW! You left your kids in daycare for 12 hours every day? 6 to 6? 7 to 7? 8 to 8? That is a very long day for kids. If my kids were in daycare for that long then I can see your point - however I would NEVER do that.

You are very lucky. So am I. There are many people however, who work from 8-6, and have to commute to/from work and therefore leave their children in daycare from 7-7.

I would never put someone down for working long hours to support their family. You do what you have to.

 

[justhat]

OP I am partly on your side only because the parents agreed to the terms in advance about the VBS, but I do not believe you should have considered volunteering to teach during your regular daycare hours.

I think this is where the problem truly lies. The parents agreed to the terms of VBS, but that agreement included leaving their 2yo at grandma's that week. I would think they therefore assumed they did not have to pay for the 2yo since they were given the option of whether or not to send him, gave 6 weeks notice that they would not be sending him, and have stuck to that. The OP read that as "I'm not sending my kid that week, but will still be obligated to pay you." This is where having the agreement in writing would have really come in handy!

 

[luvmy3]

I think this is where the problem truly lies. The parents agreed to the terms of VBS, but that agreement included leaving their 2yo at grandma's that week. I would think they therefore assumed they did not have to pay for the 2yo since they were given the option of whether or not to send him, gave 6 weeks notice that they would not be sending him, and have stuck to that. The OP read that as "I'm not sending my kid that week, but will still be obligated to pay you." This is where having the agreement in writing would have really come in handy!

Its definitely a sticky situation. I know when my kids were in daycare (not a home based one), we had 5 days we could use tuition free, we could use them when our kid was sick or just on vacation. It didn't matter if they were absent 15 days in the year, we would still have to pay for those other 10 days because it is the slot you are paying for. Being that the OP and the parents are friends also, I could see where each assumed one thing. The OP being a business owner would expect them to abide by her payment terms and the parents would think since their 2 year old wasn't going they wouldn't have to pay, because their *friend* would give them a break.

OP I hope if you do anything like this again, you'll put in all in writing and have them sign on the dotted line

 

[MushyMushy]

Both - the city pays not the state

Some families pay market rate which I think is $175.00 per week. Some only pay $5.00 a week and some are free. The city will pay the balance for those who aren't paying market rate.

The city also pays the rent(our building is $500,000.00 per year)utilities, salaries, insurance, supplies and food.

Oh, the fee is a family fee not per child. If your fee is $80.00 per week, you would pay that for 1 child or 5. The fee is the same regardless of age.

This only applies to city funded centers.

That's a subsidized system, right? It's been a very long time since my kids were in the daycare system, but ours was run like that. Unless you paid a private sitter, you went through the subsidized system (best way to get a licensed caregiver) and they based what you paid on income. Yes, I actually had a year where I was only paying $5 a week. But that went up drastically once I got married and we had a better income. This was a per child fee, so if you had 5 kids, you'd be paying for 5 kids, but the subsidy would probably be different because you had a bigger family size.

Around here, there was only the in-home daycare. There were a couple of centers, but they were church run and not licensed. Because it's a small town, I knew a lot of the daycare sitters, so I got to choose who my child went to, which was nice.

They stay put and THAT is specifically why I like this babysitter. Their day is completely filled with fun - she lives on a small farm so there's plenty of things to do, animals to interact with. They spend very little time in the house if it's a nice day. I adore my sitter for many reasons but specifically because while she is "on my time" she is not running her own errands or douing things for herself. She is devoted to watching and entertaining my kids.

I agree.

My kids were never in it for 12 hours. I was fortunate enough to work a 9-5 job right in my own town, so they were only there for a little over 8. Regardless of whether they were there for 6, 8 or even 12, I still don't want them running around all over the place! I want them in the home where I'm paying for them to be watched. My kids got enough enrichment with us and they didn't need it when somebody else was watching them. It's not like the sitter was just letting them sit like little lumps in front of the TV, but they were in a true home environment, plus went outside most of the day and played in the yard.

 

[Pin Wizard]

I can remember when DS was in day care. I remember them sending info home asking for the kids' summer schedules if they were attending. If you chose three days a week, you paid for three days a week even though they may have attended five days a week during the school year. They asked if you would be taking vacation at any time. You let them know when, and you were NOT charged for that time.

I agree...if this is something you're volunteering to do, then you need to make adjustments for the parents' fees if they don't want a child attending.

I also had DS in a couple private homes for care as a little one. Irritated me no end that they expected a full day's pay even if he was picked up early. And expected pay if it was a holiday. Geez. I've always worked on the clock. I get paid for the actual hours I WORK!

 

[Mom2Nick]

I also had DS in a couple private homes for care as a little one. Irritated me no end that they expected a full day's pay even if he was picked up early. And expected pay if it was a holiday. Geez. I've always worked on the clock. I get paid for the actual hours I WORK!

See - I don't have a problem with this. My sitter's day is from 7:30 to 6. She makes no plans for those hours. I pay for the full day even though my kids are there 8-3. I like knowing that if I wanted to run a a quick errand before getting them or if I am stuck in traffic I am not putting her out at all. Also she is setting aside that time for me - so I will pay for her full day. I would not however pay her if she was unavailable to watch my kids during the full time I needed.

 

[MushyMushy]

See - I don't have a problem with this. My sitter's day is from 7:30 to 6. She makes no plans for those hours. I pay for the full day even though my kids are there 8-3. I like knowing that if I wanted to run a a quick errand before getting them or if I am stuck in traffic I am not putting her out at all. Also she is setting aside that time for me - so I will pay for her full day. I would not however pay her if she was unavailable to watch my kids during the full time I needed.

The rules for our day care were that the kids could only be there while you were working, in school, or on an interview, and with reasonable time to pick them up. You weren't allowed to go run errands or do anything like that.

I was lucky to have one who would allow us to do things like that. I could even take a day off to do something and she would still watch my child on that day since she was being paid for it anyway. But I know there were sitters who were strict about it and made sure the parent was at work, school, or interviewing!

 

[aristocatz]

The only issue I would run into, personally (if I were the parents), is the fact that a stranger will be watching my kids for those 3 hours. Even if I was familiar with the church school staff, I would still not feel right paying for 3 hours where a person who is not the day care provider is watching my kids. If I knew the church staff, I might feel right about paying that other person for those 3 hours (the one who will actually be watching my kid), but now we are getting confusing and maybe messy. I just don't think the OP should have accepted this other job unless it was going to work smoothly with the current job....& I might have gone so far as to get the agreement in writing from my clients so there would be no messes later on.

I would NOT have an issue with it if it was the OP teaching/watching all of my kids during those 3 hours and would likely go further and pay the OP a bit more for going above and beyond her child care duties. I just don't like the idea of another person watching my child during that time.

I also admit that I do not know much about the child care process-I am just reporting on what I would feel most comfortable with and I would not feel comfortable paying someone or those 3 hours who would not be directly working with my child.

I would not mind if my day care provider was running errands while watching my kids, as long as she was with them

 

[ajk912]

People keep bringing up field trips for daycare centers or school. I have never heard of those field trips being required. Yes, they are a fun thing and it's recommended that they go, but you have the option to opt out and the kid just stays in the center that day. That kid would probably go to a different class that day, but they don't HAVE to go on the field trip. So to compare this to a daycare/school field trip is apples and oranges.

The parents don't have the option to send the kid to daycare everyday as normal and opt out of the field trip, if they so desire.

 

[ajk912]

The rules for our day care were that the kids could only be there while you were working, in school, or on an interview, and with reasonable time to pick them up. You weren't allowed to go run errands or do anything like that.

I was lucky to have one who would allow us to do things like that. I could even take a day off to do something and she would still watch my child on that day since she was being paid for it anyway. But I know there were sitters who were strict about it and made sure the parent was at work, school, or interviewing!

I have heard of private daycare providers having this rule but it doesn't make sense to me. They are getting paid for the spot (or that's what they always claim) but they tell me I can't use the spot unless I am going to a place that is approved by them? Umm..no. You NEVER heard of a center doing something like that. You pay for the spot. Whether you use it because you are going to work, or going to school, or you just want to get rid of your kids..that's your business. You pay for the spot. If you want to pay $150+ a week because you want to play video games 40 hours a week..that's your perogative. You are paying for the spot.

Now, I DO understand contracting certain hours, and if you go beyond those hours, you have to pay. Let's say the center is open 6-6 but they have rules that state that a child can be only there for 10 hours a day, after that is overtime. So the parents have to contract which hours they want- so let's say you contract 6-4. I can see paying overtime if you don't pick up till 4:30 that day, because it's not in your contract.

But I would be PISSED if I took a vacation day to do whatever, and I needed to put my kid in daycare for *whatever* reason that day even though I took a vacation day..and the person told me.."Oh, you can't bring your kid today, because I know you are taking a vacation day. But you need to pay anyway to hold the spot."

 

[Lisa_M]

I have heard of private daycare providers having this rule but it doesn't make sense to me. They are getting paid for the spot (or that's what they always claim) but they tell me I can't use the spot unless I am going to a place that is approved by them? Umm..no. You NEVER heard of a center doing something like that. You pay for the spot. Whether you use it because you are going to work, or going to school, or you just want to get rid of your kids..that's your business. You pay for the spot. If you want to pay $150+ a week because you want to play video games 40 hours a week..that's your perogative. You are paying for the spot.

Now, I DO understand contracting certain hours, and if you go beyond those hours, you have to pay. Let's say the center is open 6-6 but they have rules that state that a child can be only there for 10 hours a day, after that is overtime. So the parents have to contract which hours they want- so let's say you contract 6-4. I can see paying overtime if you don't pick up till 4:30 that day, because it's not in your contract.

But I would be PISSED if I took a vacation day to do whatever, and I needed to put my kid in daycare for *whatever* reason that day even though I took a vacation day..and the person told me.."Oh, you can't bring your kid today, because I know you are taking a vacation day. But you need to pay anyway to hold the spot."

I completely agree. I send DD to daycare when I am home sick or if I am off, but have a ton of housework to do. I'm not paying $160 per week so they can dictate what I do while my daughter is in daycare and they sure had no problem collecting the weekly rate while my daughter missed 4 weeks of daycare due to RSV and I had to figure alternate care out.

If any provider had these kind of crazy rules, I wouldn't be sending my daughter there.

To the OP, I know the parents initially agreed, but I probably would side with letting them out of paying for the 2 year old if they aren't going to VBS. You need to weigh which is more costly, a little good will now and a little less money or losing the paycheck for 2 kids for the whole year.

 

[NMAmy]

The rules for our day care were that the kids could only be there while you were working, in school, or on an interview, and with reasonable time to pick them up. You weren't allowed to go run errands or do anything like that.

I was lucky to have one who would allow us to do things like that. I could even take a day off to do something and she would still watch my child on that day since she was being paid for it anyway. But I know there were sitters who were strict about it and made sure the parent was at work, school, or interviewing!

Holy cow! Granted, I haven't used day care in a long, long time but I would have a real issue with my daycare provider dictating what I could and couldn't do while I was paying them to watch my child. Occasionally, I would take a half day off for doctor's appointments or other errands that weren't child friendly.

I also didn't have to pay when I went on vacation or for days we didn't contract for.

 

[robsmom]

I have heard of private daycare providers having this rule but it doesn't make sense to me. They are getting paid for the spot (or that's what they always claim) but they tell me I can't use the spot unless I am going to a place that is approved by them? Umm..no. You NEVER heard of a center doing something like that. You pay for the spot. Whether you use it because you are going to work, or going to school, or you just want to get rid of your kids..that's your business. You pay for the spot. If you want to pay $150+ a week because you want to play video games 40 hours a week..that's your perogative. You are paying for the spot.

Now, I DO understand contracting certain hours, and if you go beyond those hours, you have to pay. Let's say the center is open 6-6 but they have rules that state that a child can be only there for 10 hours a day, after that is overtime. So the parents have to contract which hours they want- so let's say you contract 6-4. I can see paying overtime if you don't pick up till 4:30 that day, because it's not in your contract.

But I would be PISSED if I took a vacation day to do whatever, and I needed to put my kid in daycare for *whatever* reason that day even though I took a vacation day..and the person told me.."Oh, you can't bring your kid today, because I know you are taking a vacation day. But you need to pay anyway to hold the spot."

I think the difference is that the poster you referenced who was not allowed to take vacation days and put their child in daycare was part of the city or state subsidized day care. If you are paying for daycare you can absolutely play video games, go christmas shopping without your kids, etc. If the government is paying or our subsidizing your childcare you should not be using it for any reasons other than work, school, interviews.

 

[Lisa_M]

I think the difference is that the poster you referenced who was not allowed to take vacation days and put their child in daycare was part of the city or state subsidized day care. If you are paying for daycare you can absolutely play video games, go christmas shopping without your kids, etc. If the government is paying or our subsidizing your childcare you should not be using it for any reasons other than work, school, interviews.!!

That makes perfect sense then. I didn't realize that was the situation.

 

[robinb]

OK! I have changed my mind on this thread one again due to the OP's last two updates .

(1) The OP works 11 hours per day 5 days a week. That's 55 hours per week. She only charges $100 per week to watch two kids, one of them 2-years old, so she's making only $1 per hour per child. These people are getting a killer deal! I pay my 14-year old baby sitter more than that! I paid more per week at my DD's "pre-school" when she was 2 years old and she was there for only 3 hours twice per week! Totally OT, but you need to start charging more!

(2) The 2-year old will be at her grandparent's house until about noon. The 5 year old will attend VBS as will the 12-year old sibling. The OP will drop off the 12-year old at grandma's and pick up the 2-year old and keep her for the rest of the day. That means she will have the child for 5 hours per day instead of the "regular" 11 hours.

I originally thought that the OP shouldn't charge for the 2-year old but since she will *still* be watching the 2-year old for half the day and be responsible for the 5-year old the whole day then I think that she should charge 50% for the 2-year old. Which means she should charge $75 for the week instead of her usual $100. I also think that she should raise her prices at then end of the summer!

 

[disneyjunkie]

I think the difference is that the poster you referenced who was not allowed to take vacation days and put their child in daycare was part of the city or state subsidized day care. If you are paying for daycare you can absolutely play video games, go christmas shopping without your kids, etc. If the government is paying or our subsidizing your childcare you should not be using it for any reasons other than work, school, interviews.!!

You can't enroll your child in a city funded center unless you work, are looking for work (this option is only for those in a shelter)are attending school or have a medical reason for child care. A family that can afford to pay market rate, but doesn't have a need for child care, will not be able to enroll their child.

 

[ajk912]

That makes perfect sense then. I didn't realize that was the situation.

I did not realize that was the case. Absolutely, if the government is paying for your childcare, absolutely, you have to be at work.

I have read on this board, as well as others, posts by private daycare providers who do have a rule that they will only watch the kids if they parents are at work/school that day. If the parents have a vacation day, the provider expects a vacation day from that child. I ASSumed that was the case.

 

[disneyjunkie]

OK! I have changed my mind on this thread one again due to the OP's last two updates .

(1) The OP works 11 hours per day 5 days a week. That's 55 hours per week. She only charges $100 per week to watch two kids, one of them 2-years old, so she's making only $1 per hour per child. These people are getting a killer deal! I pay my 14-year old baby sitter more than that! I paid more per week at my DD's "pre-school" when she was 2 years old and she was there for only 3 hours twice per week! Totally OT, but you need to start charging more!

(2) The 2-year old will be at her grandparent's house until about noon. The 5 year old will attend VBS as will the 12-year old sibling. The OP will drop off the 12-year old at grandma's and pick up the 2-year old and keep her for the rest of the day. That means she will have the child for 5 hours per day instead of the "regular" 11 hours.

I originally thought that the OP shouldn't charge for the 2-year old but since she will *still* be watching the 2-year old for half the day and be responsible for the 5-year old the whole day then I think that she should charge 50% for the 2-year old. Which means she should charge $75 for the week instead of her usual $100. I also think that she should raise her prices at then end of the summer!

Allowing the family to pay a lower rate is a great idea.