*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[Queen2PrincessG]

As opposed to what, this collective think tank?

What would an open minded exec conclude about FP+ from reading every thread in Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies?

I actually want to answer this.

I would hope that if an exec read theses boards and was open minded they would see that many complaints aren't valid because many people commenting haven't used the system.
I would hope that they would hear the want for more options and a better way to use them across the parks.

 

[coopersmom]

Disney knows more about why you love them than you do. And they know this about all of their guests, across every conceivable ethnic, national and socioeconomic demographic.

Disney knows more about your kids than you do, and knows that in a few short years they'll be the ones deciding where to take their kids. Disney knows why you come, why you'll eventually choose "competing" venues (which they consider as "complimentary") and why you'll come back.

They know how to connect to you through various platforms and emerging technologies. They have created strategic partnerships that build brand loyalty.

The only thing Disney desires more than loyal customers is a larger number of loyal customers. If their plans to achieve the latter leaves some less than satisfied, that's the unfortunate price that must be paid. It isn't personal, except for you.

Disney has always planned beyond a horizon that you aren't even aware exists. Disney is playing chess and we're talking about checkers.

*And by you, I don't mean you. I mean the collective of the 100s of millions who make pilgrimage to the parks around the world annually, take cruises and buy movies and videos and merchandise.

Newsflash, Disney is not an omnipotent superpower. They are a corporation, run by people, capable of errors, both in execution and judgement. How many Disney projects have been abandoned AFTER their public announcement, which means long (like YEARS long) after their private planning has been assessed, approved and begun to be executed? What looks good on paper doesn't always pan out in the real word. Projected gains, predictions of future behavior, profit projections: all are extremely fallible ... In both directions.

Disney most assuredly does NOT know more about my family our your family than you, or I, do ... Not in the sense of the collective, nor the individual "you." To think they do is blind worship and, frankly, a tad creepy.

Historically company's expectations of micro marketing and targeted consumer data mining's translation to actual real profits have been wildly overblown (witness basically the entire tech bubble for examples). It's too soon to tell if this is the case in Disney's instance, but it would hardly be an unlikely outcome.

I in no way, shape or form believe MyMagic and FastPass+ will bankrupt Disney, ruin the parks or wildly effect overall attendance (in either direction), I just don't believe they will ever prove "worth" the cost paid for Disney's bottom line. Based on Disney precedent, I think they'll eventually get the system working reasonably well (scrap parts that don't work at all, improve the tech reliability and modify the system to please more patrons) but I still think this will go down in history as a financial boondoggle that never, ever pays off as originally projected (meaning: in the way they foolishly forecasted when they chose to devote funds to this versus other projects, namely expansions).

On the other hand, infrastructure investment, as proven by Universal and Disney's own California park, can provide serious and almost guaranteed return on investment pretty much immediately. From what I've heard/read both Universal and Disney California recouped their capital improvement investments within 12 months, which is a freaking awesome return. Not only would it have been better for consumers, but the smart money at Disney would have been in and, honestly, still is, adding additional rides, lands and gates to their park. History has shown that if they build it, people will come.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm not being compelled by forces beyond my control to buy a Mickey tchotchke.

But it is easier with that nifty MagicBand... ...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I actually want to answer this.

I would hope that if an exec read theses boards and was open minded they would see that many complaints aren't valid because many people commenting haven't used the system.

I would hope that they would hear the want for more options and a better way to use them across the parks.

If valid/significant, they'll be hearing that from their randomly sampled guest survey data as well.

 

[WillAustin]

I would hope that if an exec read theses boards and was open minded they would see that many complaints aren't valid because many people commenting haven't used the system.

There are certainly plenty of them from people who have used FP+.

I would hope that they would hear the want for more options and a better way to use them across the parks.

From what I've seen, most of the complaints are exactly that.

 

[redrosesix]

HAHA Really? I have been twice with FP+. No complaints other than the amount we are given and even that isn't that big a deal.
Other than that one meal. You may not be typical but for people who are going to stay in the park the $$$ amount will go up.

I can't for the life of me imagine why this would be the case.

And since I'm assuming this thread is still about the report cited in the OP, if all those people waiting in longer SB lines aren't so happy about that experience why would they want to spend more than when SB lines were shorter?

 

[OtherScott]

That's not where I was going with this at all. The implication of your earlier post was that the brain trust at Disney has thought this thing out far more than we can ever imagine and that it is assured of success because Disney is so talented that there is no way for their state-of-the-art system to fail. All I am saying is that the people who dreamed this system up may not be as infallible as you think. There is a reason why they are soliciting so much user feedback (including from this collective think tank). They are already reaching the conclusion that their system is hitting walls. Corporate America does make errors in judgment sometimes. So let’s not assume that Disney knows more about the wants and needs of my family than I do.

implied:

"the brain trust at Disney has thought this thing out far more than we can ever imagine"

not implied:

..."and that it is assured of success because Disney is so talented that there is no way for their state-of-the-art system to fail."

specifically not implied:

"So let’s not assume that Disney knows more about the wants and needs of my family than I do."

Seeking user feedback on a $1.5 billion dollar system implies they've concluded the system is hitting walls?

 

[Davey Jones II]

(1) I don't want to preplan
(2) I want to wander where we wish and gets fastpasses for whatever we're in the mood for at the moment.
(3) I don't want to fool with smartphones and Disney's fussy app any more than we have to!
(4) Even if we only have access to 3 fastpasses, I want the old flexibility back.

Don't despair, folks. Ride capacity is going up. Disney has just announced their latest and greatest E Ticket! It's called...

FOOLING WITH YOUR SMARTPHONE...THE RIDE!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Don't despair, folks. Disney has just announced their latest and greatest E Ticket! It's called...

FOOLING WITH YOUR SMARTPHONE...THE RIDE!

Is FP+ available for that one? Is that Tier 1 or 2? Should I give it A, B or C priority? Hurry up!! I'm busy planning for Oct!!

 

[WillAustin]

Seeking user feedback on a $1.5 billion dollar system implies they've concluded the system is hitting walls?

I don't think that. I think they are getting far more negative feedback than they expected.

I think we can say that the rollout has taken longer and gone less smoothly than anticipated based both on executive personnel changes last year and several articles citing inside sources.

I think they are still working on reaching a positive outcome with the system. I don't believe they know where or how that ends up yet.

As I said a long time ago, they didn't know how many same day FPs they could give everyone until they started gathering the data with the system online. They are still gathering that data.

 

[jade1]

I don't think that. I think they are getting far more negative feedback than they expected.

I think we can say that the rollout has taken longer and gone less smoothly than anticipated based both on executive personnel changes last year and several articles citing inside sources.

I think they are still working on reaching a positive outcome with the system. I don't believe they know where or how that ends up yet.

As I said a long time ago, they didn't know how many same day FPs they could give everyone until they started gathering the data with the system online. They are still gathering that data.

Agreed, although by negative feedback I think it's "we want more of this", which is great thing to have in a business.

I also think they are using less than 10% of the systems capability. Many changes to come/implement, just needs expansion.

Even this below is really saying we want more of FP+, not we don't like it.

Back by popular demand!

 

[glamdring269]

Did you decide to do Universal BECAUSE OF FP+, or were you planning on trying it regardless? I ask because we've talked about trying a few days at Universal at some point, but that is driven by the kids' ages and interest in the Universal offerings. Whether we go to Universal or not has nothing to do with FP+.

We wanted to try Universal because we've never been (not because of FP+). But the point is that by going to Universal just before going to WDW in October I will be able to fairly judge the two against one another. 3 or 4 days of Express Pass vs. 5 or 6 days of FP+ may prove to be a poor showing by WDW. We will know soon enough!

Like I said, I had a positive experience with FP+ during testing. But my experience is certainly not the norm of today.

 

[OtherScott]

Newsflash, Disney is not an omnipotent superpower. They are a corporation, run by people, capable of errors, both in execution and judgement. How many Disney projects have been abandoned AFTER their public announcement, which means long (like YEARS long) after their private planning has been assessed, approved and begun to be executed? What looks good on paper doesn't always pan out in the real word. Projected gains, predictions of future behavior, profit projections: all are extremely fallible ... In both directions.

Disney most assuredly does NOT know more about my family our your family than you, or I, do ... Not in the sense of the collective, nor the individual "you." To think they do is blind worship and, frankly, a tad creepy.

Historically company's expectations of micro marketing and targeted consumer data mining's translation to actual real profits have been wildly overblown (witness basically the entire tech bubble for examples). It's too soon to tell if this is the case in Disney's instance, but it would hardly be an unlikely outcome.

I in no way, shape or form believe MyMagic and FastPass+ will bankrupt Disney, ruin the parks or wildly effect overall attendance (in either direction), I just don't believe they will ever prove "worth" the cost paid for Disney's bottom line. Based on Disney precedent, I think they'll eventually get the system working reasonably well (scrap parts that don't work at all, improve the tech reliability and modify the system to please more patrons) but I still think this will go down in history as a financial boondoggle that never, ever pays off as originally projected (meaning: in the way they foolishly forecasted when they chose to devote funds to this versus other projects, namely expansions).

On the other hand, infrastructure investment, as proven by Universal and Disney's own California park, can provide serious and almost guaranteed return on investment pretty much immediately. From what I've heard/read both Universal and Disney California recouped their capital improvement investments within 12 months, which is a freaking awesome return. Not only would it have been better for consumers, but the smart money at Disney would have been in and, honestly, still is, adding additional rides, lands and gates to their park. History has shown that if they build it, people will come.

Set aside the strawman arguments for a moment:

What do you think Disney should have added and what would be the ROI (cost and time)?

What was projected ROI for FP+?

What's the ROI benchmark that moves this beyond "boondoggle?"

What does Disney project, after full rollout and hard numbers (you choose the time frame), FP+ will look like? Do they see same-day FP pulls after you use up pre-books? Do they see an opportunity for FP pulls that will support another revenue channel (ParkHopper)?

 

[redrosesix]

If valid/significant, they'll be hearing that from their randomly sampled guest survey data as well.

Their random sample isn't all that random. It excludes non-Americans, and more importantly, it excludes people who aren't actually in the parks at that moment. And when we were there, they were only surveying people as they walked into the parks.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Allow me to blow your mind.

If I had a 1:00 FP+ and a 2:00 FP+ I would...ride the first one, then ride/see something using stand by...then probably ride/see something else using stand by...then maybe ride/see something else using stand by...then use the second FP+ (maybe closer to 3:00 than 2:00).

Seriously? In your mind the only thing someone could do between two FP+ "appointments" is spend money? (Admit it, you work for Disney. LOL)

Am I now only supposed to ride three rides a day and spend money in between? There are attractions in every park that can be experienced with a minimum wait at almost any time of day. I'm not being compelled by forces beyond my control to buy a Mickey tchotchke.

Mind not blown. Sorry, not sorry. I didn't say the only way was my way what I am saying is that its naive to think the system wasn't built with profit in mind.Nope don't work for Disney wish I did. Lots of changes would happen. i would totally get rid of Soarin! hate that stupid ride.

Yes you could see a show or ride something else but I know what we like to do is shop and I know many more Disney travelers that are like that.

 

[redrosesix]

We wanted to try Universal because we've never been (not because of FP+). But the point is that by going to Universal just before going to WDW in October I will be able to fairly judge the two against one another. 3 or 4 days of Express Pass vs. 5 or 6 days of FP+ may prove to be a poor showing by WDW. We will know soon enough!

Like I said, I had a positive experience with FP+ during testing. But my experience is certainly not the norm of today.

JMHO but if you're going to have EP, I'd consider doing Uni second -- it's going to be hard to go back to SB lines after having the EP. We also find it just isn't so great to do DHS after US -- the two parks are so much alike, yet DHS pales in comparison.

 

[OtherScott]

I don't think that. I think they are getting far more negative feedback than they expected.

How much did they expect, how much are they getting?

I think we can say that the rollout has taken longer and gone less smoothly than anticipated based both on executive personnel changes last year and several articles citing inside sources.

Agree

I think they are still working on reaching a positive outcome with the system. I don't believe they know where or how that ends up yet.

I agree, although I believe they have a range of factors they are shooting for and have an idea of what success looks like, both in functionality and revenue. Keep in mind, this isn't just about today's guests and it is not a stand alone concept meant only to correct/enhance something today. The 2 best days to plant a tree is 20 years ago, and today.

As I said a long time ago, they didn't know how many same day FPs they could give everyone until they started gathering the data with the system online. They are still gathering that data.

This is why I think this is remarkably different 2 years from now. I do not believe, and never have, that the final plan was simply "3 FP+ prebooks for everyone."

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I think the upper hand in expansion and building will always go to Universal. Though a bit behind, the entire Wizarding World expansion has to be the quickest turn around Ive ever seen from announcement to opening.

I think Universal does it well. All hotel onsite get the card for free and if you want to pursh you can, if you are offsite. If you could mix that with the fastpass plus systems ability to pick when you ride. I'd be a happy lady.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We wanted to try Universal because we've never been (not because of FP+). But the point is that by going to Universal just before going to WDW in October I will be able to fairly judge the two against one another. 3 or 4 days of Express Pass vs. 5 or 6 days of FP+ may prove to be a poor showing by WDW. We will know soon enough!

Like I said, I had a positive experience with FP+ during testing. But my experience is certainly not the norm of today.

I see. We used the bands in testing last Oct, and again last month when it was rolled out. Definitely different to have additional limitations, but we weren't soured on FP+ by our Feb experience. Would still like same-day FP+ after the pre-scheduled ones are used, and hopping ability. Fingers crossed...

Their random sample isn't all that random. It excludes non-Americans, and more importantly, it excludes people who aren't actually in the parks at that moment. And when we were there, they were only surveying people as they walked into the parks.

That IS a random sample of the customers experiencing the product (you don't need people not in the parks at that time for it to be a statistically random sample -- the kind that matters when drawing any conclusions -- they sample ALL THE TIME), with the exception of excluding non-Americans.

Do you mean those traveling to WDW from a foreign country that trip? I'd be surprised if this was the case for ALL surveying... wish we had more details on these practices and the reasoning here... just out of curiosity...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I do not believe, and never have, that the final plan was simply "3 FP+ prebooks for everyone."

Ditto. Guess we'll see...