UPDATE p. 37. I finally canceled. Too much uncertainty for us.

[OtherScott]

It makes me a little sad to think that not everyone got to go when it wasn't scheduled like a busy work day. And 10 years ago and earlier, it wasn't. You could treat it like a normal vacation - schedule your travel, book your room, and then just show up and have fun. Decide when you got out of bed what park you felt like going to. Eat what you wanted when you wanted. Our honeymoon trip in '99 is still probably my favorite, because of the utter freedom we had to just Be At Disney. There was a time you could go to Disney without a watch and still eat steak in Canada on a whim.

About 10 years ago it started changing. Now if you want anything other than counter service and potentially long waits for things, you schedule, plan, figure out which park is open which hours, check the crowd websites, rearrange your schedule, decide 6+ months out where you are going to go on which day, mark your calendar with the 180 day dining reservation dates, search and book tables, schedule some more, realize you have to change something, frantically try to find a new reservation time, etc. Now they want me to carry my cell (which I prefer to leave locked in the safe, because... I'm on vacation!) to keep up with their app too. I was looking at our Christmas trip reservations yesterday, and due to the addition of FP+ on top of ADRs we have as many "appointments" on the calendar for each day at Walt Disney World as I have in the average day at work. This amused me. Heh. (At least I don't have to come to my "meetings" at Disney prepared with PPTs. )

Of course we still go (a bit less often, sadly), and of course we still have fun because DISNEY, but it is now hyper-scheduled fun on super-scripted rails. Keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times! And don't forget your watch.

Very well said.

I'd suggest my family's approach. We do annual visits to Hilton Head Island, where at least 5 times a week I dont know what day it is.

Every 4th year or so we get the bug to go to Disney (We did both this year). We've been planning less at Disney, enjoying more, and FP+ will hit us right in our wheelhouse - waking up naturally and still riding TSM.

 

[Mad Hattered]

How nice,, you can actually mouth off and not have to read those that
fire back.. How eluding..

Yep....I just found the Ignore Button, too.

 

[Jeslynb]

Very well said.

I'd suggest my family's approach. We do annual visits to Hilton Head Island, where at least 5 times a week I dont know what day it is.

Every 4th year or so we get the bug to go to Disney (We did both this year). We've been planning less at Disney, enjoying more, and FP+ will hit us right in our wheelhouse - waking up naturally and still riding TSM.

This is us, if you substitute Hawaii for HHI.

Very interested in HHI in future, however. Heard great things.

 

[xie]

Very well said.

I'd suggest my family's approach. We do annual visits to Hilton Head Island, where at least 5 times a week I dont know what day it is.

Every 4th year or so we get the bug to go to Disney (We did both this year). We've been planning less at Disney, enjoying more, and FP+ will hit us right in our wheelhouse - waking up naturally and still riding TSM.

Yup. Camping is now our version of your Hilton Head trip.

The one thing I do like very much about FP+ is knowing we'll have fast passes guaranteed that are later in the day. I am NOT a morning person, and getting to rope drop the last few years to ride things was... not so much fun. Especially with the cruddy coffee at Disney. (They do so many other things so well... why do they fail at coffee? ) So anyway, yay for Toy Story Mania 4pm return time without having to go in at rope drop and race the strollers back there.

 

[xie]

This is us, if you substitute Hawaii for HHI.

Very interested in HHI in future, however. Heard great things.

We'd like to visit Hawaii sometime in the next few years, being on the east coast it's just that much longer of a travel time though.

Hilton Head is lovely. The beaches are nice. They have ordinances that prevent big signs and lights, so at night the place is quite dark, too. Not a lot of night life. Some really good hole-in-the-wall seafood places. A good place to just go and forget the world for a few days.

We've stayed at the DVC resort there, and it's nice. Be prepared to do your cooking in your unit or going off property to eat, as they don't really have food (there's a walk up that does breakfast biscuits and counter-service type lunches, but that's it). But they do nightly campfire singalongs, movies by the pool in warm weather, indoor bingo in the evenings, kids crafts and pool parties, all the things you expect from a deluxe level resort. The resort is not on the beach, but Disney has an agreement with another beachfront property that Disney guests can drive through to get to the "beach house", which has counter service, a pool, and beachfront with rentable chairs/umbrellas. We had a car but I assume they will shuttle guests without one.

 

[dennis j]

Yup. Camping is now our version of your Hilton Head trip.

The one thing I do like very much about FP+ is knowing we'll have fast passes guaranteed that are later in the day. I am NOT a morning person, and getting to rope drop the last few years to ride things was... not so much fun. Especially with the cruddy coffee at Disney. (They do so many other things so well... why do they fail at coffee? ) So anyway, yay for Toy Story Mania 4pm return time without having to go in at rope drop and race the strollers back there.

Hey..wait a minute now.. We now have Starbucks ! On Main Street even.. I thought I was in Chicago again..

 

[Jeslynb]

We'd like to visit Hawaii sometime in the next few years, being on the east coast it's just that much longer of a travel time though.

I hear you. We're on the East Coast, too. But the trip got MUCH better when Hawaiian Air added direct flights from NY to Honolulu. Yes, it's 9-10 hours, but with no layover or stops, that's still not bad. And it's a great airline. Putting all my purchases for our upcoming WDW trip on my miles card, lol.

 

[xie]

Hey..wait a minute now.. We now have Starbucks ! On Main Street even.. I thought I was in Chicago again..

I know! It opened after we were last. The nice thing about Sbux is that you can drink one of the fancy ones with milk and chocolate and not really taste the coffee. Sugar AND caffeine!

 

[dennis j]

Yep....I just found the Ignore Button, too.

Hey Hey,, good for you Maddy...

 

[dennis j]

I know! It opened after we were last. The nice thing about Sbux is that you can drink one of the fancy ones with milk and chocolate and not really taste the coffee. Sugar AND caffeine!

You probably already know, but also Starbucks where the Fountain View ice cream restaurant was at Epcot.. Of course.. A Frappe is almost like ice cream in a coffee.. I guess..

 

[metzgardesign]

It makes me a little sad to think that not everyone got to go when it wasn't scheduled like a busy work day. And 10 years ago and earlier, it wasn't. You could treat it like a normal vacation - schedule your travel, book your room, and then just show up and have fun. Decide when you got out of bed what park you felt like going to. Eat what you wanted when you wanted. Our honeymoon trip in '99 is still probably my favorite, because of the utter freedom we had to just Be At Disney. There was a time you could go to Disney without a watch and still eat steak in Canada on a whim.

About 10 years ago it started changing. Now if you want anything other than counter service and potentially long waits for things, you schedule, plan, figure out which park is open which hours, check the crowd websites, rearrange your schedule, decide 6+ months out where you are going to go on which day, mark your calendar with the 180 day dining reservation dates, search and book tables, schedule some more, realize you have to change something, frantically try to find a new reservation time, etc. Now they want me to carry my cell (which I prefer to leave locked in the safe, because... I'm on vacation!) to keep up with their app too. I was looking at our Christmas trip reservations yesterday, and due to the addition of FP+ on top of ADRs we have as many "appointments" on the calendar for each day at Walt Disney World as I have in the average day at work. This amused me. Heh. (At least I don't have to come to my "meetings" at Disney prepared with PPTs. )

Of course we still go (a bit less often, sadly), and of course we still have fun because DISNEY, but it is now hyper-scheduled fun on super-scripted rails. Keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times! And don't forget your watch.

Precisely. Our WDW honeymoon trip was in '98, and we had a terrific time. No ADR's, and no sense of needing to be anywhere in particular at any given time. Decided in the morning what sounded good for lunch or dinner.

And each year it got to be a little more planning intensive. And honestly....less enjoyable.

So, I don't see us going back anytime soon. We are still attracted to the idea of going to WDW.....but the reality, particularly the last few trips, makes us realize it's just not the enjoyable trip it used to be. So.....I suppose the romantic notion of what it was and what it sells itself to be, has been beat out by the reality of what it's become.

However, our last trip to Universal did really live up to this notion. A nice room, courteous staff, pleasant walk to the parks, easy to get into dining options. A true sense of "vacation" for us. So much so, that will be our next Orlando visit. We may pop over to MK for a day....but may very well not do that.

Ultimately....I feel like WDW has concentrated too much on creating extreme numbers of rooms and time-shares with little thought to providing increased, quality attractions for all those additional rooms. So much so, that the lines, the FP- (less so) and FP+ (more so) fiascos (and WDW's feeble attempts at juggling the physics around to maximize attraction quotas relative to attendance).....and an overall less-pleasant customer service model....really are affecting people's visits. Size has dictated distance and a far more homogenized experience, as it were. Hands-on (or unique, if you prefer) has become formulated and methodical. Nowhere is this more visually exemplified than in character interactions (as a singular example....there are other). WDW used to be a place that children could walk through the park and bump into Cinderella or Mickey....a truly magical experience for them (heck....it's still shown that way in much of their current advertising). Now....they get to stand in line when the characters appear. And I understand they can get a FP+ time for that as well, now. I understand that the increased crowds dictate this, I suppose....but it doesn't make it any less impersonal.

And if they cease to be innovators (some may argue they already have ceased in many ways), then they will lose. Not today, not immediately tomorrow, but down the road. The nostalgia they are so successful with right now, will sell fewer and fewer tickets when the generations needed to continue the nostalgia have a far weaker bind to the place than the generations bringing their kids today.

And if you are the guest that is not bothered by any of this....then great! I envy your ability to enjoy that type of vacation. I miss what WDW used to be for us. And I am not alone.....I have heard from many local friends who used to be routine visitors to WDW, that they just didn't enjoy it this last time. And they won't hurry to go back. But I am sure there will many to take their places....until there aren't.

But it in no way diminishes the concerns of people who do wish WDW was a bit more carefree and fun.....not just "attraction" fun, but fun all around. The corporate atmosphere there, and online, and on the phone has changed. And in my opinion (and mine alone, perhaps) not for the better.

The Fairy Godmother is now holding a cattle-prod rather than a magic wand.

 

[rebbyparker]

Agreed. When we go to Florida, I'm the one opting for WDW, but I have to say children and grandchildren are more often than not opting for Universal/IOA or the "fishy place". At this point in time, I'm bigger than they are, so we're still going to WDW but that will eventually change.

 

[atp]

Precisely. Our WDW honeymoon trip was in '98, and we had a terrific time. No ADR's, and no sense of needing to be anywhere in particular at any given time. Decided in the morning what sounded good for lunch or dinner.

And each year it got to be a little more planning intensive. And honestly....less enjoyable.

So, I don't see us going back anytime soon. We are still attracted to the idea of going to WDW.....but the reality, particularly the last few trips, makes us realize it's just not the enjoyable trip it used to be. So.....I suppose the romantic notion of what it was and what it sells itself to be, has been beat out by the reality of what it's become.

However, our last trip to Universal did really live up to this notion. A nice room, courteous staff, pleasant walk to the parks, easy to get into dining options. A true sense of "vacation" for us. So much so, that will be our next Orlando visit. We may pop over to MK for a day....but may very well not do that.

Ultimately....I feel like WDW has concentrated too much on creating extreme numbers of rooms and time-shares with little thought to providing increased, quality attractions for all those additional rooms. So much so, that the lines, the FP- (less so) and FP+ (more so) fiascos (and WDW's feeble attempts at juggling the physics around to maximize attraction quotas relative to attendance).....and an overall less-pleasant customer service model....really are affecting people's visits. Size has dictated distance and a far more homogenized experience, as it were. Hands-on (or unique, if you prefer) has become formulated and methodical. Nowhere is this more visually exemplified than in character interactions (as a singular example....there are other). WDW used to be a place that children could walk through the park and bump into Cinderella or Mickey....a truly magical experience for them (heck....it's still shown that way in much of their current advertising). Now....they get to stand in line when the characters appear. And I understand they can get a FP+ time for that as well, now. I understand that the increased crowds dictate this, I suppose....but it doesn't make it any less impersonal.

And if they cease to be innovators (some may argue they already have ceased in many ways), then they will lose. Not today, not immediately tomorrow, but down the road. The nostalgia they are so successful with right now, will sell fewer and fewer tickets when the generations needed to continue the nostalgia have a far weaker bind to the place than the generations bringing their kids today.

And if you are the guest that is not bothered by any of this....then great! I envy your ability to enjoy that type of vacation. I miss what WDW used to be for us. And I am not alone.....I have heard from many local friends who used to be routine visitors to WDW, that they just didn't enjoy it this last time. And they won't hurry to go back. But I am sure there will many to take their places....until there aren't.

But it in no way diminishes the concerns of people who do wish WDW was a bit more carefree and fun.....not just "attraction" fun, but fun all around. The corporate atmosphere there, and online, and on the phone has changed. And in my opinion (and mine alone, perhaps) not for the better.

The Fairy Godmother is now holding a cattle-prod rather than a magic wand.

Great post! Universal can't replace Disney World for me because most of the rides do not appeal to me, but other than that I agree 100%.

I'm also still attracted to the idea, I want to go so bad, if I had an infinite supply of money I'd be there right now.

However, a lot has changed and I wonder now if it's worth my time and hard earned money. Maybe Disneyland would be a good replacement? It's an international trip for us anyway...but I still like the fact that Disney World has more parks, more resorts. It just feels more immersive. But if that means having to plan each and every day of my trip, having to check the time constantly...and having to stand in long lines save for 3 attractions. I don't know if it's worth it! It's a vacation after all.

I'll wait and see what happens, but as of now, IF I decided to go to DW, I would most definitely stay offsite and eat offsite as much as possible, bring snacks, because I think it's starting to not be worth the cost anymore.

It's not even about the FP+/FP- thing anymore. It's the buses, their attitude with towards the guests. The apparent desperation to attempt to fill every nook and cranny of the park with a guest. I mean, I know they are in this for the money, but come on. There's a limit to everything.

 

[metzgardesign]

Agreed. When we go to Florida, I'm the one opting for WDW, but I have to say children and grandchildren are more often than not opting for Universal/IOA or the "fishy place". At this point in time, I'm bigger than they are, so we're still going to WDW but that will eventually change.

My 10 year old son.....who doesn't like thrill rides really....(mostly....he enjoys ToT and RnR, but not the coasters at Universal)...stated that he had no interest in returning to WDW on the drive back from our trip last fall. And he still sticks to that. He actually said he had a better time at our Universal stay.

I am sure some of that was the newness of it. But much of it was (as he states it) that it was more "relaxing." He and his friend that went with us were very aware of the more regimented feeling during the WDW portion. And at that time, it was only relative, really, to dining ADR's.

Part of that was choice. We are not big counter-service folks. We prefer to sit and eat and experience the atmospheres (as well as unique menus) of different restaurants. So, that is a choice we make. But there again....the CS joints aren't any better. Sure you can zip in and grab a quick bite, more inexpensively. But, if you don't pick a good time to go, you get to play the table shuffle-boogie trying to find a place to sit, sometimes.

 

[EMom]

Geez Louise, I did not cancel my vacation due to misleading posts and rumors. I truly thought the thread title made it clear........Uncertainty was the straw that broke the camel's back for us. The constant changes meant that we could get on the plane with one set of rules and by the time we landed, WDW could have changed those rules. That's just not for us.

I feel so bad for the people who received two days' notice that they will not get KTTW at Pop and can only use FP+. There is no way of knowing whether that would have happened to our resort. THAT is what pushed us past our limit. I have been to WDW a lot and had it down to a science, meaning we knew what we'd get from the vacation. We knew what the lines would be like, how many FP we could pull, whether we stood a chance of getting the restaurants we wanted.

These changes mean uncertainty and from all I can gather from those who have been (along with my friend who lives locally), those changes will benefit some and be to the detriment of others. We fall in the "detriment" category. We KNOW what certain changes are and that those changes do not favor our family's touring style. We can either decide to use our vacation time and money to go and take our chances, hoping for the best but prepared to accept the worst OR........We can read the handwriting on the wall, decide that we do not want to risk our vacation time and money on a trip that will likely not satisfy us and instead, wait for the dust to settle and see if we want to return to WDW at a later date. That is what we did. It's not a "We hate Disney" stance. It's a "This trip isn't a good fit for us anymore" stance. It mystifies me why that seems to rub anyone the wrong way.

We have changed our vacation style over the years. What worked as two young married people doesn't always work as parents. What worked with one employer doesn't work with another. What worked at 20 doesn't necessarily work at 40. With all these changes and the constant uncertainty, WDW does not work for us as well as it did. Maybe Disneyland will. I know Universal will, as we have tried that and greatly enoyed it. DH and I have thought of going to Hawaii. We used to go to Europe all the time and perhaps it is time to return to that.

If we go to Universal, we will wait until the new Harry Potter area is open. TWO of those will make for an amazing trip. We will stay onsite at a very nice hotel and get FOTL. We won't have to make advance ADRs at restaurants. We will lounge by great pools. We will drink Butterbeer. However, if Universal decides to change things and get rid of FOTL or letting onsite people into the HP area an hour early, we will have to rethink that trip. Because it would not be the trip that FITS OUR FAMILY. But the way things are now, Universal is easy and fun and we like that!

I am dead certain WDW is not hurting because of our canceled trip. They will not miss us. They are a business, doing what they think will make them money and that is their right. As a consumer, it is my right to say their "product" is no longer appealing enough to us to spend thousands of dollars on it, but that we will reconsider buying it if it becomes appealing again.

Am I certain our vacation would have gone poorly? No. But knowing us and knowing what was going on a WDW right now, I could say for certain that there was a VERY GOOD chance we would have been dissatisfied and regretted spending our time and money on the trip. So the logical move was to cancel. If we spend a day at Six Flags and don't enjoy it, we're out hundreds of dollars. Fly to WDW for a trip and don't enjoy it and we're out thousands of dollars. We don't gamble to that extent. We are the sort who will wait and go elsewhere with a better chance of a positive outcome.

When we cancelled, I spoke to a supervisor who wanted to know why we were cancelling and I told her. She indicated they are getting many calls like mine. She wasn't surprised in the least. And goodness knows, she took much less offense than some people on this thread. Disney is betting they will attract more than enough people to offset any cancellations and I'm sure they will.

It's not a matter of glass half full or glass half empty. It's more a matter of we don't choose to drink what is offered in that glass.

 

[EMom]

Precisely. Our WDW honeymoon trip was in '98, and we had a terrific time. No ADR's, and no sense of needing to be anywhere in particular at any given time. Decided in the morning what sounded good for lunch or dinner.

And each year it got to be a little more planning intensive. And honestly....less enjoyable.

So, I don't see us going back anytime soon. We are still attracted to the idea of going to WDW.....but the reality, particularly the last few trips, makes us realize it's just not the enjoyable trip it used to be. So.....I suppose the romantic notion of what it was and what it sells itself to be, has been beat out by the reality of what it's become.

However, our last trip to Universal did really live up to this notion. A nice room, courteous staff, pleasant walk to the parks, easy to get into dining options. A true sense of "vacation" for us. So much so, that will be our next Orlando visit. We may pop over to MK for a day....but may very well not do that.

Ultimately....I feel like WDW has concentrated too much on creating extreme numbers of rooms and time-shares with little thought to providing increased, quality attractions for all those additional rooms. So much so, that the lines, the FP- (less so) and FP+ (more so) fiascos (and WDW's feeble attempts at juggling the physics around to maximize attraction quotas relative to attendance).....and an overall less-pleasant customer service model....really are affecting people's visits. Size has dictated distance and a far more homogenized experience, as it were. Hands-on (or unique, if you prefer) has become formulated and methodical. Nowhere is this more visually exemplified than in character interactions (as a singular example....there are other). WDW used to be a place that children could walk through the park and bump into Cinderella or Mickey....a truly magical experience for them (heck....it's still shown that way in much of their current advertising). Now....they get to stand in line when the characters appear. And I understand they can get a FP+ time for that as well, now. I understand that the increased crowds dictate this, I suppose....but it doesn't make it any less impersonal.

And if they cease to be innovators (some may argue they already have ceased in many ways), then they will lose. Not today, not immediately tomorrow, but down the road. The nostalgia they are so successful with right now, will sell fewer and fewer tickets when the generations needed to continue the nostalgia have a far weaker bind to the place than the generations bringing their kids today.

And if you are the guest that is not bothered by any of this....then great! I envy your ability to enjoy that type of vacation. I miss what WDW used to be for us. And I am not alone.....I have heard from many local friends who used to be routine visitors to WDW, that they just didn't enjoy it this last time. And they won't hurry to go back. But I am sure there will many to take their places....until there aren't.
But it in no way diminishes the concerns of people who do wish WDW was a bit more carefree and fun.....not just "attraction" fun, but fun all around. The corporate atmosphere there, and online, and on the phone has changed. And in my opinion (and mine alone, perhaps) not for the better.

The Fairy Godmother is now holding a cattle-prod rather than a magic wand.

Yes, especially to that in red. And the tag fairy needs to get busy with that fairy godmother line. That is the funniest thing I have read in a while.

 

[ArwenMarie]

When we cancelled, I spoke to a supervisor who wanted to know why we were cancelling and I told her. She indicated they are getting many calls like mine. She wasn't surprised in the least. And goodness knows, she took much less offense than some people on this thread. Disney is betting they will attract more than enough people to offset any cancellations and I'm sure they will.

It's not a matter of glass half full or glass half empty. It's more a matter of we don't choose to drink what is offered in that glass.

Disney definitely doesn't care when people cancel. I guess they don't have to. They also don't care about feedback, which is why I don't bother sending them any directly anymore, but that's probably a discussion for another thread

I think some people get defensive because it puts a damper on their anticipation of their own trips. I totally get that. I am not affected in the same way, but I get it. What I don't get is why you would keep going into threads that are clearly labeled that way though, why not just stick to the happy, happy, joy, joy ones?

I guess sometimes just the discussion itself is interesting

 

[robpa]

Disney definitely doesn't care when people cancel. I guess they don't have to. They also don't care about feedback, which is why I don't bother sending them any directly anymore, but that's probably a discussion for another thread

I think some people get defensive because it puts a damper on their anticipation of their own trips. I totally get that. I am not affected in the same way, but I get it. What I don't get is why you would keep going into threads that are clearly labeled that way though, why not just stick to the happy, happy, joy, joy ones?

I guess sometimes just the discussion itself is interesting

If reading these threads puts a damper on the anticipation of their trips its pretty ironic. They are the ones saying I can't believe you cancelled your trip because of what you read on a message board. That too funny

I think most of them are just trying to show everyone why they are right and everyone else is wrong. The problem is no one is right or wrong since Disney won't tell anyone what the final product will look like

 

[Gillyrose779]

You can tell me if I am wrong but your main reason for cancelling is because of FastPass and the uncertainty of how you could use it- right? Something that is only just an added bonus/option.

Am I the only one who could care less about fast pass? On our last trip we only used it twice.

I just don't see the big deal.

 

[WillAustin]

Am I the only one who could care less about fast pass? On our last trip we only used it twice.

I just don't see the big deal.

Glad it worked that way for you.

My wife once told a friend, "if you went to Disney World with us, you'd never be comfortable waiting in a line again." We were that good at avoiding any long waits using FPs. For some of us, it is a complete shift in how we've become accustomed to getting around the parks during a busy time.