Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[dinolounger]

Are you sure about that? I tried to see if there were any facts about that, and I was unable to find anything other than what I'll post here. But it seems to me, from what I've read, that there are a lot of folks from the south who, as you put it, are "callling for a banning of the flag" as well.

My evidence is anecdotal, but suggests the the overwhelming majority of the "ban the flag" noise is coming from outside the South.

Example: where are they burning the battle flag? They're pouring on the gas and taking out the matches in:

Philadelphia

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...Liberty-Bell-Independence-Mall-308642761.html

Jersey City (where they compare it to the Nazi flag):

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/06/jcpm_feeds_homeless_destroys_confederate_and_nazi.html

Brooklyn (where they also plan to simultaneously burn the American flag, yes, we all love New York......)

http://pix11.com/2015/06/29/grassro...d-confederate-flag-burning-event-in-brooklyn/

Chicago

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-burning-confederate-flag-20150627-photogallery.html

Boston

http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2015/06/activist_claims_students_burne.html

Detroit (where the major local newspaper the Detroit Free Press just ran an op-ed stating every single "Confederate" flag everywhere should be burned.)

http://www.mediaite.com/print/dont-like-confederate-flag-burn-it-says-detroit-op-ed/

Los Angeles

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LA-Activists-Burn-Confederate-Flag-Protest-309444621.html

 

[dinolounger]

You can say what you want without painting a whole section of the county "cultural cleansers". Yes, I find that insulting (as was intended) and your use of "red state" and "blue state" is very political.

With the exception of a handful of constitutional scholars in major northern universities, all the evidence suggests that most of said "section" of the nation is in favor of what is going on, i.e cultural cleaning.

The Confederacy lost and we all won because of it. If you don't understand that then perhaps you should emmigrate elsewhere.

The Confederacy lost, but at a cost to the Union of almost 600,000 deaths. For every Confederate soldier the Union killed, the Confederates in return killed 1.21 Union soldiers. That meant that by the time the war ended, the higher "killing efficiency" of the average Southern private (which historians credit to the fact many came from rural areas where gun handling and marksmanship were critical skills learned at early ages) meant it cost the North an additional 106,361 casualties to win. If you want a sense of the scale of that additional cost, here is a small sample of it in Arlington National Cemetery:

As for "we all won," yes the union was preserved. However, even though Southerners contributed significantly to the founding and advancement of this country, even before the Charleston shootings they have been subjected to a long-running process of demonization. The horror in Charleston has sadly opened the flood gates of hate for the culture and history of the South.

Which is not a "win" for anyone.

And as for emigrating, not happening. My ancestors came here on the Mayflower, so we've been here long enough to know we can outlast anyone or anything.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My evidence is anecdotal, but suggests the the overwhelming majority of the "ban the flag" noise is coming from outside the South.

Example: where are they burning the battle flag? They're pouring on the gas and taking out the matches in:

Philadelphia

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...Liberty-Bell-Independence-Mall-308642761.html

Jersey City (where they compare it to the Nazi flag):

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/06/jcpm_feeds_homeless_destroys_confederate_and_nazi.html

Brooklyn (where they also plan to simultaneously burn the American flag, yes, we all love New York......)

http://pix11.com/2015/06/29/grassro...d-confederate-flag-burning-event-in-brooklyn/

Chicago

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-burning-confederate-flag-20150627-photogallery.html

Boston

http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2015/06/activist_claims_students_burne.html

Detroit (where the major local newspaper the Detroit Free Press just ran an op-ed stating every single "Confederate" flag everywhere should be burned.)

http://www.mediaite.com/print/dont-like-confederate-flag-burn-it-says-detroit-op-ed/

Los Angeles

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LA-Activists-Burn-Confederate-Flag-Protest-309444621.html

It also happened in

Tallahassee

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...llahassee-stranger-confederate-flag/29215281/

Orlando

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-confederate-flag-burning-20150525-story.html

New Orleans

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_burned_lee_ci.html

Texas

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ffer-burn-confederate-flags-article-1.2272740

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/06/23/29152307/

Charleston

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...ican-confederate-flags-in-downtown-charleston

And thirteen mostly southern states in May of this year

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/23/confederate-flag-burning-events-spark-outrage/

http://www.theroot.com/articles/new...mbolically_bury_and_burn_the_confederate.html

 

[dinolounger]

In the spirit of the Community Board being "just for fun," I've decided we really need some levity in this thread.

As many here are likely aware, a number of large retailers have announced they will no longer sell anything with imagery of the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (a.k.a. erroneously the "Confederate Flag.")

But at the same time, said retailers continue to sell all sorts of other items that are symbols (or contain symbols) of evil and hate. Here some fun examples from Amazon:

A Heinrich Himmler action figure. Just the thing to inspire your favorite nephew:

Of course, if you really want to impress him, go for the big kahuna: the matching Hitler figure. Hours of fun for the whole family.

Of course, toys are only so much fun and bore the adults. So let's get the big kid stuff, like weapons. How about an authentic replica of the type of sabre the SS officers would carry around the concentration camps?

And for that special someone, get this stunning gift set of three beautiful daggers!

Ooops, I forgot the littlest ones! They need something too, and Amazon has just the ticket: a Lego Nazi Zombie Soldier figure!!!

Yes, we can all sleep well tonight knowing Amazon has fully removed all that horrible, hateful Confederate stuff.

 

[christineann]

Meanwhile, in other news, the funeral for Myra Thompson was held at Emanuel yesterday. Today the funeral will be held for Rev. Simmons.

 

[luvsJack]

This particular flag pretty much stayed out of the public eye until the late 1940s. Then the Dixiecrats brought it out after Truman integrated the military, attempted to get Civil Rights Laws passed and lynching was made a federal crime. That's also when Ole Miss started using it at football games.

It's display erupted in the early 60s when the segregationists brought it out again when Ole Miss was being desegregated and when George Wallace uttered the infamous "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

That's the history of the symbol, if that's "southern pride," and honoring the confederate soldiers, where was it for 80 plus years?

The state flag that some are trying to cleanse away has been in place since 1894.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

If all of this had stayed just about the one flag in the one place, country wide debates and arguements would have died down but it spread to amazon not selling flags to toy cars being stripped of stickers to a state flag being villified to talk of monuments being removed. We fill pushed into a corner. And one thing has not changed. That flag, that car and our state flag did NOT cause the death of 9 innocent people.

I agree the flag and your state didn't kill people, just <<name redacted, because he doesn't deserve attention>>. And I think Amazon, Walmart (etc) and Warner are overreacting.

 

[robinb]

The state flag that some are trying to cleanse away has been in place since 1894.

Oh for Pete's sake. No one is trying to "cleanse" anything. They simply don't want that flag to be honored by state and local government. It's a piece of history and in no way should it be eliminated. It needs to remain as a reminder of a fractured nation, the shame of slavery ... and of southern pride. If we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it and I don't know about you but I don't want to have another civil war.

FWIW, I was surprised that Amazon, eBay, et al is refusing to allow Confederate merch. It's a business decision that tells me that there is a strong national sentiment that the flag is something that is obsolete and antiquated as those companies don't just leave money on the table.

I have a question for all the Confederate flag wavers on the thread. Why not include it in your signature or your avatar? Show your southern pride and fly that flag high on the DIS so everyone knows how you feel about it as you flitter from thread to thread

 

[mom2rtk]

FWIW, I was surprised that Amazon, eBay, et al is refusing to allow Confederate merch. It's a business decision that tells me that there is a strong national sentiment that the flag is something that is obsolete and antiquated as those companies don't just leave money on the table.

It just tells me those companies are afraid of the PC police.

 

[robinb]

It just tells me those companies are afraid of the PC police.

Maybe they were afraid of protests but I don't see big companies like that caving to a few loud people.

 

[penn19]

It just tells me those companies are afraid of the PC police.

I think thats more like it.

 

[Disneychick75]

Sorry, but that's capitalism knowing what is good for them. Many times momentum doesn't turn on a subject until businesses push it in a certain direction. In this case, it's crystal clear that the major retailers don't want anything to do with the Stars and Bars. Don't worry, though! I'm sure you can find your Confederate can koozies somewhere on the internet. Look! On my first page of results: http://shop.bucknwild.com/Decals-Stickers-Koozies-Coozies-Can-Huggers_c10.htm . You're welcome.

When I posted someone "on high" told Amazon to stop selling the flag, I was not talking about Amazon management.

I have never owned anything with the "Confederate" flag printed on it and I don't plan to ever own anything with that flag. I don't know anyone who has. Does being sarcastic further the discussion?

 

[Disneychick75]

It also happened in

Tallahassee

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...llahassee-stranger-confederate-flag/29215281/

Orlando

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-confederate-flag-burning-20150525-story.html

New Orleans

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_burned_lee_ci.html

Texas

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ffer-burn-confederate-flags-article-1.2272740

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/06/23/29152307/

Charleston

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...ican-confederate-flags-in-downtown-charleston

And thirteen mostly southern states in May of this year

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/23/confederate-flag-burning-events-spark-outrage/

http://www.theroot.com/articles/new...mbolically_bury_and_burn_the_confederate.html

Free speech-people have urinated (and worse) and burned the Stars and Stripes. Tomato, tomahto

 

[disneyjunkie]

I have a question for all the Confederate flag wavers on the thread. Why not include it in your signature or your avatar? Show your southern pride and fly that flag high on the DIS so everyone knows how you feel about it as you flitter from thread to thread

I love it. If it is something to be proud of, then let your FREAK flag fly.

 

[pat fan]

I love it. If it is something to be proud of, then let your FREAK flag fly.

I have no desire to fly it, but it's not about if I want to or not.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Free speech-people have urinated (and worse) and burned the Stars and Stripes. Tomato, tomahto

The point was being made it was primarly coming from the north.

The Gallup poll of 2000 showed that all Americans were divided on the issue, which still seems to be the case.

 

[pat fan]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charleston-church-holds-last-funeral-for-victim-of-deadly-attack/

 

[Disneychick75]

I love it. If it is something to be proud of, then let your FREAK flag fly.

The flag would probably be considered political. I haven't seen any Stars and Stripes in signatures maybe for the same reason?
Though I have seen freaky signatures here on the Dis.

The point was being made it was primarly coming from the north.

My point was people disrespect the Stars and Stripes and they've disrespected the "Confederate" flag.

I've learned on the DIS that if someone says blue, you can bet someone will find something to say green. In the end, it doesn't matter because no one will convince a stranger on a chat board that they're wrong and the other person is right, if they're convictions are firmly held. It's nice to have a place for people to share their opinions whether or not we agree.

 

[luvsJack]

Oh for Pete's sake. No one is trying to "cleanse" anything. They simply don't want that flag to be honored by state and local government. It's a piece of history and in no way should it be eliminated. It needs to remain as a reminder of a fractured nation, the shame of slavery ... and of southern pride. If we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it and I don't know about you but I don't want to have another civil war.

FWIW, I was surprised that Amazon, eBay, et al is refusing to allow Confederate merch. It's a business decision that tells me that there is a strong national sentiment that the flag is something that is obsolete and antiquated as those companies don't just leave money on the table.

I have a question for all the Confederate flag wavers on the thread. Why not include it in your signature or your avatar? Show your southern pride and fly that flag high on the DIS so everyone knows how you feel about it as you flitter from thread to thread

They are trying to remove a flag that has been in place since 1894 and was voted on in 2001. So cleanse, remove, strip away----all the same thing. "If we ignore history. . . " "That flag" that I am speaking of is not the confederate flag but our state flag, put in place in 1894 and voted on by black and white voters over a hundred years later.

For your last paragraph---I don't fly a Confederate flag. I don't own one. Never have. I don't have an issue with removing the confederate flag from government buildings, but that is not what is happening. In MS, we don't fly a confederate flag on government buildings that I have ever seen.

No one down here in the good ole' south flys a confederate flag. You don't drive down the road and see them everywhere. Heck, I don't see them in pick up trucks but maybe twice in a year and half the time that's on a truck from out of state. Apparently the places that some of you go, is a whole lot different than here because the only place you see a confederate flag is on a confederate memorial.

And there is still that little fact that you can remove all signs of the old south from every point in America, and there will still come a day when another mentally ill person, filled will hate will walk into a church or a school or a crowd on the beach and start firing his gun. This isn't going to change what happened and it isn't going to prevent a darn thing.

BTW, your crack about beer coozies, just proves the pp's point about hatred toward the south.

 

[robinb]

BTW, your crack about beer coozies, just proves the pp's point about hatred toward the south.

(1) I don't hate the south. (2) I own beer koozies (although not Confederate ones). I live in Wisconsin after all.