Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[robinb]

Looks like Walmart's banning of Confederate merchandise is working really well to pacify the aggrieved victims of bigotry:

http://www.macon.com/2015/06/29/3821075_report-macon-wal-mart-mob-wanted.html?rh=1

Huh? What the heck does a bunch of drunk distructive teens have to do with the confederate flag? And are they 'aggrieved victims of bigotry' because they are black? Really? That's a wide brush you have there.

 

[rickybobby]

Huh? What the heck does a bunch of drunk distructive teens have to do with the confederate flag? And are they 'aggrieved victims of bigotry' because they are black? Really? That's a wide brush you have there.

Google destructive flash mobs and you will see a pattern of who perps are.

 

[robinb]

Google destructive flash mobs and you will see a pattern of who perps are.

Red herring.

 

[dinolounger]

Google destructive flash mobs and you will see a pattern of who perps are.

Exactly, but the PC crowd here is in denial.

 

[CPT Tripss]

It's part of a memorial, near the Confederate Soldier Monument. The flag is fixed, not on pulleys.

This poster was merely repeating what SC officials stated to the media. It rapidly became accepted. Yet today as we watched the relic lowered, we saw that clear evidence that SC officials didn't give an accurate accounting. Today, the SC State Police Honor Guard simply cranked the flag down.
Props to the vast majority of the SC Legislature and Gov. Haley!

 

[robinb]

This poster was merely repeating what SC officials stated to the media. It rapidly became accepted. Yet today as we watched the relic lowered, we saw that clear evidence that SC officials didn't give an accurate accounting. Today, the SC State Police Honor Guard simply cranked the flag down.
Props to the vast majority of the SC Legislature and Gov. Haley!

Hmmm. Now that's interesting. Maybe it couldn't be tied off properly. Or maybe they simply lied.

 

[KBoopaloo]

Hmmm. Now that's interesting. Maybe it couldn't be tied off properly. Or maybe they simply lied.

On my local news radio station this morning it was reported that a crew installed the pulley/crank last night to be able to lower it in this way. But when I read some of the accounts today it seemed that the mechanism may have been inside the pole all along so I am not sure.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I was talking to a friend of mine that lives in SC and she told me about an African American Monument. This monument is on the house grounds and was erected in 2001 as part of a compromise to move the flag to the Confederate Soldier's Monument. Since they removed the flag, should they also remove the African American Monument?

For me, I think they should have let the flag stay especially since they put up an African American Monument.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Has it been used by hate groups to terrorize a race of people?

This isn't a game of tit for tat.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Has it been used by hate groups to terrorize a race of people?

This isn't a game of tit for tat.

The African American Monument is there because the flag was at the Soldier's Monument. Should we take down everything in history that someone might find hateful or thinks it terrorized people?

 

[disneyjunkie]

What's hateful about that monument? What group was terrorized by what it represents?

That flag was removed. That doesn't mean every trace of the confederate will now be removed. I wouldn't care one bit if that were to happen, but it won't.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm not normally one to try to erase history, but I read recently that the flag was installed in the 60's to protest integration. Can anyone confirm or deny? I don't have a good source. *IF* that's really how & when the flag came to be where it was, then they were long overdue to remove it.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I'm not normally one to try to erase history, but I read recently that the flag was installed in the 60's to protest integration. Can anyone confirm or deny? I don't have a good source. *IF* that's really how & when the flag came to be where it was, then they were long overdue to remove it.

It was placed there in 1961(I believe in April). Some say it was placed there to commemorate the start of the Civil War.
Others say it was placed there as a slap on the face to the civil rights movement.

 

[luvsJack]

So I still want to know, would everyone be ok with the actual flag of the confederacy being flown in the place of the battle flag?

And what exactly is being acomplished here? Do we think that if we do away with all rebel flags that the kkk will disappear?

Does anyone think that anyone is going to know the reason that flag was put in that place on that date? One side is going to say one thing and the other sid is going to say something else. And everyone assumes they are right.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

The African American Monument is there because the flag was at the Soldier's Monument. Should we take down everything in history that someone might find hateful or thinks it terrorized people?

Should we leave up everything that is hurtful because we leave up anything?

Should we take down nothing that is hurtful because we cannot fix everything by so doing?

It's not a matter of thinking that it terrorized people, nor that it might be found as hateful. It has terrorized people and people do find it hateful. Not all, in either case, but many. If you can make the same case for a monument to African Americans, then let's explore removing that monument. If it has not, then why make the case?

 

[christineann]

I have thought for a long time that the flag would eventually come down and be placed in its rightful place in a museum. I had hoped (as do members of some of the Emmanuel families) that the flag discussion would wait until after the funerals, but as one family member said, "Politicians aren't going to let a tragedy go to waste." Politicians were backed into a corner to take a stand immediately, so the flag came down (and many around here think it was going to be taken down eventually even if the shootings at Emmanuel had not occurred). If some think it is wrong to take it down now, so be it, but if we err, doing so out of compassion for our neighbors doesn't diminish anyone or make anyone lose his/her principles.

The media didn't get the riots and violence they wanted (what a great story that would have been for the media), so the flag became the new controversy, fueled by the media. It's interesting that here in Charleston, the flag has NOT been the focus or big story with us regular folks, white and black. It is important to note that the families who are suffering the most are the ones who inspired us with their strength and grace.

 

[Suger Mag]

I'm not normally one to try to erase history, but I read recently that the flag was installed in the 60's to protest integration. Can anyone confirm or deny? I don't have a good source. *IF* that's really how & when the flag came to be where it was, then they were long overdue to remove it.

1961

http://www.scpronet.com/point/9909/p04.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...9d971a-2742-11e5-b621-b55e495e9b78_story.html

There are plenty of articles if you google SC confederate flag history. WHY it was flown is up to debate... some report it was to commemorate the civil war, others maintain it was in response to the civil rights movement and in particular school de-segregation.

Personally I am glad it is gone and do not believe it belongs on a government, building or monument. If you want to wear it head to toe and plaster it all over your house and car, go for it... that is your personal right.

 

[luvsJack]

Doesn't belong on a civil war memorial? Pray tell, what does belong on these memorials?


I don't believe that politicians were backed into a corner. They used this tragedy to put the focus on a symbol. Not one bit of focus has been on preventing future tragedies like this.

Taking the flag down is great for SC, if that is their choice, but it hasn't been left there. And that is a problem.

The entire country can remove all signs of the rebel flag. Let the hate groups have it. Of course they may just change symbols and then we start chasing our tails trying to wipe out those symbols and will still have not accomplished anything.

 

[christineann]

I agree, luvsjack. I should have stated that some politicians were backed into a corner by those who used the shootings to bring up a debate about the flag. The media went to those who were not focused on it and demanded statements from them immediately. Had some of the elected officials indicated this wasn't the time to revisit the issue, they would have been accused of being uncaring and worse, even though some of the Emmanuel family members thought the discussion should wait. Local authorities are addressing the issues and how this happened and how to protect citizens from this kind of violence (much more than is reported by the media), but there will still be politicians who beat their chests and try to get their 15 minutes of fame because of this horrible event.

Whether the flag should have flown on the statehouse grounds at the memorial was a debate for South Carolina, and it was handled by South Carolina. No one here thinks taking it down from the flagpole will solve problems, but it was appropriate to move it into a museum (after all, it is not our state flag), whether it was this week or some time in the future.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

Yeah, because that would stop someone deranged enough to kill 9 innocent people. Sorry, I'm not being rude\crude, but a person capable of doing something this horrendous is going to find a way no matter what.

Yep, the uniformed always are the first to say gun control. Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.