TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Priory]

I would guess disney has two types of surveys: ones that skewer toward positive rosy results to present to shareholders and ones that let them research what their guests really think. Maybe everyone is right!

 

[Ellwood970]

2005 I went to DL and waited over 2 hours to ride space mountain knowing I probably might never get back. What a great ride. And i would have been very disappointed if I did not have the chance to ride.

 

[Minniekins]

I thought one of the things they pushed last year after Christmas sometime, supporting how great MM and FP+ was, was how they were able to get so many more in MK, and what a great success that was. Why would they then want to make every ride FP+ only, which would make all the lines basically standby again, and I think would bring down attendance as opposed to increasing. I would think that many, many guests would balk at only being able to schedule rides ahead of time. And, only 3 fp+, instead of being able to ride their 3(possibly 4th, 5th, etc) and any attraction they care to get in line for, for their $100 ticket. And spontaneity of a last min trip or day trip is gone, which has to lower attendance a good bit. Why go in any park then if you couldn't get any fp+ or only can get 3 that you don't even care about those rides anyway? I don't know about numbers or logistics or anything, but just seems to me that they would alienate tons of guests or would-be guests, and for what purpose? I thought they wanted attendance to be high, more profitable to them? Guests in the park spend money on food and souvenirs. If guests choose not to be forced into an inflexible schedule to ride rides, or can't even get the fp+ cause they are already booked for rides they would want, and they won't take just any fp+ just to get a ride of any kind, so they don't come to the parks at all, then where's all those people spending and buying food and souvenirs in the parks? Maybe I've got it all wrong, but it doesn't make any sense at all how having everything as FP+ or you don't ride, would be most profitable for Disney. And, really, all I can see is that even if some people are willing to do all ressie rides, eventually more and more people would not be willing to do that, as guests see how restrictive this would be. People like having choices - get a FP+ or standby to ride, make a dinner ressie or decide where to eat in the moment, for example. Choices and options accommodates all guests, otherwise who is in control of their own vacays? I can't believe this would become a popular way to do disney, and that it wouldn't just completely backfire on them. Sorry to babble on, but the thought of reserved rides only is very upsetting.

 

[vacationer1954]

Seriously, what justification is there for deleting a post where someone links an answer to a question about the DAS?

You'll have to ask them, given that neither of us know exactly what happened since neither of us know the whole story.

That's just crazy talk.

Besides the recent work in the Magic Kingdom there is work underway at Animal Kingdom. This is apparently over and on top of new rides, shows and attractions. I think that they know that all the need is enough attractions for guests to enjoy over a reasonably length vacation and no more than that. They just need to retire old attractions and add new attractions every so often now. And that is what they're doing.

As I said, even polling from this board shows a pretty high percentage of satisfaction. Looks like there's more that like it than don't.

And they have a pretty long history of looking at the data and knowing that things that people complain loudly about on year they're satisfied with a few years later and they complain loudly about losing a few years after that when Disney introduces something better.

Nor is it worth debating one who falls back on the tired old, "you just can't see the truth" excuse when all else fails.

I can understand your frustration.

You read interesting things. "Blind trust in Disney corporate".

That wasn't the case with either she or I. We both said very early in the thread that we like what Disney is doing. It is what we want them to do. And that our family has a better time at Disney because of these kinds of things.

 

[magicbob]

It's each guests perogative if they want to wait 60/90/120 mins to experience something.

Unless Disney decides otherwise like they did during this test.

This is the big opinion divide IMHO - between the people who liked to get 10-15 rides per day using rope drop, touring plans, FP-, single-rider queues, park hopping, revisiting rides during parades and fireworks, etc. and those who are happy to get 3 or 4 of their favorite rides in a leisurely way, then just like to chill in the park, at a full-service restaurant, or at the resort.

Disney evidently thinks that they will get bigger profits by investing in technology which favors the latter group, by restricting the availability of rides and fastpasses in order to either get rid of the ride-busters, or force them to learn how to chill (and like it). Instead of taking the more obvious (or at least tried and true) path of building more rides and adding capacity.

I think they're taking a BIG chance by trying to radically change the expectations of a large number of their guests in such a short time. It may be a win for Disney profits and a win for the (supposedly) higher profit-margin guests who are not ride maniacs, but it certainly has a lot of other people very worried if not completely riled up.

WDW's new motto... It's not all about the rides *

* which is a good thing, since we're not going to let you on any of them!

 

[vacationer1954]

This is the big opinion divide IMHO - between the people who liked to get 10-15 rides per day using rope drop, touring plans, FP-, single-rider queues, park hopping, revisiting rides during parades and fireworks, etc. and those who are happy to get 3 or 4 of their favorite rides in a leisurely way, then just like to chill in the park, at a full-service restaurant, or at the resort.

Disney evidently thinks that they will get bigger profits by investing in technology which favors the latter group

I'm not sure if what you're saying is true (though I agree it probably is) but is there any question that Disney will get more profits by satisfying people who tax their resources less and buy a lot of food and souvenirs?

I think they're taking a BIG chance by trying to radically change the expectations of a large number of their guests in such a short time. It may be a win for Disney profits and a win for the (supposedly) higher profit-margin guests who are not ride maniacs, but it certainly has a lot of other people very worried if not completely riled up.

Yes a lot of people are riled up but I don't think we can say this is a change taking place in a short time. It is part of a very slow change introduced 15 years ago and probably part of plans that go back 20 years.

Although this thread has gotten way too long to go back and check, I'm not sure that there has been anyone who likes the idea of eliminating standby lines at any attraction. I know I don't.

I do or at least I would prefer Disney offer 100% of the capacity of each attraction as FP+. That would mean that those waiting standby may never get into the attraction and it probably also means that the wait would be so long and unreliable that Disney would consider it too much of a dissatisfier to ever offer a standby line.

Maybe they could replace the physical standby line with a virtual standby line. People can put themselves on the waiting list and then they get a TXT message when their FP+ comes in for a specific time.

 

[Minniekins]

*snip*

I do or at least I would prefer Disney offer 100% of the capacity of each attraction as FP+. That would mean that those waiting standby may never get into the attraction and it probably also means that the wait would be so long and unreliable that Disney would consider it too much of a dissatisfier to ever offer a standby line.

Maybe they could replace the physical standby line with a virtual standby line. People can put themselves on the waiting list and then they get a TXT message when their FP+ comes in for a specific time.

I don't understand why someone would want no standby lines? If you(general you) don't choose to wait in the standby line, who cares if someone else does? Why take away the choice from any guest? Why shouldn't people have a choice in how they tour, using fp+ or just waiting in any line they fancy at the moment? If you(general) like fp+ use that, if not, wait in that five min or 90 min line. Not everyone wants to plan a trip down to the minute for which rides(or attraction) to be on which day and hour. Where is the magical trip in that? Magic just happens and not on a schedule. How sad to tell the kids 'oh, no, honey, sorry you can't ride that, oh no, not that one either, oh and your favorite one - nope, sorry - they said you should have told me a month or two ago that you wanted to ride that'. Idk, doesn't seem fun or magical in the least, or any sort of vacation, just disappointing for the whole family.

 

[mom2rtk]

nope, sorry - they said you should have told me a month or two ago that you wanted to ride that'.

 

[vacationer1954]

I don't understand why someone would want no standby lines?

What I said is that I would prefer Disney offer 100% of the capacity of each attraction as FP+. I prefer that because it would give us the greater opportunity for the most amount of FP+s. I prefer having short waits for attractions made possible by having only a certain number of people entering the line during an hour.

If you(general you) don't choose to wait in the standby line, who cares if someone else does?

What I said was Disney would consider it too much of a dissatisfier to offer a standby line if they made 100% of the capacity of each attraction as FP+ because of how people in that line would have no idea how long they'd be waiting and it could be many hours and they may not even get into the attraction at all.

Idk, doesn't seem fun or magical in the least, or any sort of vacation, just disappointing for the whole family.

And I feel that it would be more fun and magical to have specific times when we can arrive at an attraction and have very short waits to ride. I understand you wouldn't like it as much as I would.

 

[magicbob]

I don't understand why someone would want no standby lines? If you(general you) don't choose to wait in the standby line, who cares if someone else does? Why take away the choice from any guest? Why shouldn't people have a choice in how they tour, using fp+ or just waiting in any line they fancy at the moment? If you(general) like fp+ use that, if not, wait in that five min or 90 min line. Not everyone wants to plan a trip down to the minute for which rides(or attraction) to be on which day and hour. Where is the magical trip in that? Magic just happens and not on a schedule. How sad to tell the kids 'oh, no, honey, sorry you can't ride that, oh no, not that one either, oh and your favorite one - nope, sorry - they said you should have told me a month or two ago that you wanted to ride that'. Idk, doesn't seem fun or magical in the least, or any sort of vacation, just disappointing for the whole family.

I think some of the concern stems from the following:

Even if they don't go FP+ exclusively, they have shown a propensity to increase the ratio of FP+ to SB, making the SB line resemble a true "standby" (ride when we can squeeze you in) model. Given that you can only have three rides reserved (with tiers in several parks), that means that waiting in the SB line for the other rides will take much longer. I still maintain that the only way FP+ results in waiting less time in lines OVERALL is if people just decide it's not worth waiting that long and ride FEWER rides. There's no way people can ride as many rides as they did in the past and spend less time in line unless their touring style was that they only rode 3-5 rides a day.

 

[vacationer1954]

I still maintain that the only way FP+ results in waiting less time in lines OVERALL is if people just decide it's not worth waiting that long and ride FEWER rides. There's no way people can ride as many rides as they did in the past and spend less time in line unless their touring style was that they only rode 3-5 rides a day.

I don't see it that way. There is nothing about FP+ that slows rides down. So each park will have roughly the same number of attraction visits per day. All that changes is how the guests for each of those attraction visits is determined.

Something else to consider. If the FP+s for the prime times are reserved people will get FP+s for earlier in the day because that's all that is left. So FP+ could get guests out of bed and into the parks earlier so they don't "miss" their opportunity.

 

[cakebaker]

Sorry was away all day so I am late responding. You find the notion ridiculous even though it was shown in black and white on this very site? No one said every survey, just some. Also not sure what poster was dismissive of them taking down negative feedback. That too has been verified by many posters on here! Honestly some people don't want to face facts!

An anonymous person posting on the dis saying this that or the other happened to them is not a FACT- What I see now is a facebook page that has a long list of complainers voicing their concerns. IF they were doing it before, they obviously are not doing it now- And no, I don't believe there are more and Disney is just weeding them out. But, if they were, so what? Who cares? In what way does them editing a facebook page affect my vacation?

As for surveys- I didn't see the surveys spoken of. I can't make a decision as to whether I think they were skewed. But if they were, what was Disney's point in doing a couple of skewed surveys? Because the surveys I get are not skewed.

Did Disney just want to fool themselves for a while and now they can handle the truth? If the truth is this system is a failure, then why isn't it showing in the bottom line? The parks are wildly popular right now, more than they've ever been.

And then we fall back on the gold standard for some who don't like fp+- My opinions are what they are because I don't want to see the facts. No, you don't see the facts. The system is successful to this point. The only data available backs up what they're seeing in the parks- an increase in attendance and an increase in profits.

You don't like the system, ok. It doesn't work for you? Ok. But it does for more people than it doesn't and frankly, you're just going to have to get used to it.

I'd be nicer about this, but I don't get that courtesy in return. So, bottom line- it's here, it's not going anywhere. That's a fact that some just won't see. Clicking your little ruby reds together and crying for home isn't going to change a thing.

 

[Suvadoo]

What I said is that I would prefer Disney offer 100% of the capacity of each attraction as FP+. I prefer that because it would give us the greater opportunity for the most amount of FP+s. I prefer having short waits for attractions made possible by having only a certain number of people entering the line during an hour.

I understand what you are saying, but if Disney turned rides into FP+ only then, in effect, FP+ would become the new SB line with long waits. I read a post yesterday from someone who had just returned from their trip. In the MK, FP+ lines were 50 minutes for 2 of their 3 picks of the day (not A& E or 7D). I don't consider that a short wait.
I think the only way to reduce ride wait times is to limit the number of guests in each park. But I think Disney is trying to squeeze everyone in like a bunch of sardines.

 

[cakebaker]

I would guess disney has two types of surveys: ones that skewer toward positive rosy results to present to shareholders and ones that let them research what their guests really think. Maybe everyone is right!

There's only one problem with that- if they're skewing the results it doesn't actually change what people think. If people are unhappy enough, it will show in the bottom line and then shareholders are NOT happy.

I suppose if they skew the results anyway and profits take a nose dive, shareholders won't notice the loss because they're out snorting pixie dust celebrating the glorious poll numbers.

The only problem is- profits are up. Damn. That doesn't make sense when we all know that despite Disney's best efforts to fool us, the dis knows the truth and most people hate the changes and Disney is going down the tubes!

 

[cakebaker]

I understand what you are saying, but if Disney turned rides into FP+ only then, in effect, FP+ would become the new SB line with long waits. I read a post yesterday from someone who had just returned from their trip. In the MK, FP+ lines were 50 minutes for 2 of their 3 picks of the day (not A& E or 7D). I don't consider that a short wait.
I think the only way to reduce ride wait times is to limit the number of guests in each park. But I think Disney is trying to squeeze everyone in like a bunch of sardines.

A 50 minute wait using FP+? Interesting..do you happen to have the link to that thread? In neither of our trips did we ever have any wait to speak of in a fp + line and one was taken during the busy season. I wouldn't consider 50 minutes short fp+ or not.

 

[lions1995]

If the truth is this system is a failure, then why isn't it showing in the bottom line? The parks are wildly popular right now, more than they've ever been.

I think the impacts of FP+ on attendance will not be known for some time. The group of people who go once to twice will not be swayed to go if not by FP. But they will more likely be swayed by the opinion of their friends that are repeat goers. So if the the new FP+ leaves a bad taste in frequent vacationers! they and their friend attendance may stop. Not saying that will happen, simply that it will take some time (at least another year) to see the impact.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You'll have to ask them, given that neither of us know exactly what happened since neither of us know the whole story.

If you are going to insinuate the posters I was referring to are lying, then there is no point to continuing the conversation. I've had a lot of interaction with those posters and they have never been less than honest. I give people the benefit of the doubt unless they have given me a reason not to. They haven't.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The only problem is- profits are up. Damn. That doesn't make sense when we all know that despite Disney's best efforts to fool us, the dis knows the truth and most people hate the changes and Disney is going down the tubes!

As I said earlier in the thread, mm+ hasn't been in.place long enough to determine if it will be a success or a failure. Many people book vacations to Disney a year or more out, and many don't visit places like the dis to know the current ins and outs of everything. The situation at the parks was vastly different a year ago, even 6 months ago (prior to 4th fp option) than it is now.

So while I agree it can't be said that mm+ is a failure, it also can't be touted as a.long term success yet either.

 

[magicbob]

I don't see it that way. There is nothing about FP+ that slows rides down. So each park will have roughly the same number of attraction visits per day. All that changes is how the guests for each of those attraction visits is determined.

Which supports my point. They are not increasing ride capacity, so any decrease in wait for one person, results in an equal an opposite reaction (i.e., longer wait for someone else). If they increase the ratio of FP+ distributed, the SB line MUST get slower to accommodate giving priority to those holding FPs.

This system may spread out the FP wealth more evenly, but the flip side is that for every other attraction you don't have a FP for, your choices are to wait SB or not ride. Assuming SB lines are still an option, they will result in longer waits because more people are being given FP+ priority and the SB line creeps along as they can squeeze in a few people here and there.

So, for people who have traditionally ridden 3-5 rides and couldn't get FPs due to late arrival, etc. those people will experience a shorter overall wait because the limitations don't kick in until above the threshold of what they were going to ride anyway. But it's not just the "uber-users" who will spend more time in SB lines. Even "moderate" FP users now have fewer FP opportunities and have to ride SB for rides they would previously have FP'd. So, again, if they skew the ratio in favor of more FP+, that means the wait might go down for that ride for some people, but those without a FP are in for a much longer wait. And even though you had a short wait for ride A because you had a FP, you are one of the people stuck in SB for rides B, C, D, E, etc.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

An anonymous person posting on the dis saying this that or the other happened to them is not a FACT- What I see now is a facebook page that has a long list of complainers voicing their concerns. IF they were doing it before, they obviously are not doing it now- And no, I don't believe there are more and Disney is just weeding them out. But, if they were, so what? Who cares? In what way does them editing a facebook page affect my vacation?

As for surveys- I didn't see the surveys spoken of. I can't make a decision as to whether I think they were skewed. But if they were, what was Disney's point in doing a couple of skewed surveys? Because the surveys I get are not skewed.

Did Disney just want to fool themselves for a while and now they can handle the truth? If the truth is this system is a failure, then why isn't it showing in the bottom line? The parks are wildly popular right now, more than they've ever been.

And then we fall back on the gold standard for some who don't like fp+- My opinions are what they are because I don't want to see the facts. No, you don't see the facts. The system is successful to this point. The only data available backs up what they're seeing in the parks- an increase in attendance and an increase in profits.

You don't like the system, ok. It doesn't work for you? Ok. But it does for more people than it doesn't and frankly, you're just going to have to get used to it.

I'd be nicer about this, but I don't get that courtesy in return. So, bottom line- it's here, it's not going anywhere. That's a fact that some just won't see. Clicking your little ruby reds together and crying for home isn't going to change a thing.

But you certainly don't mind suggesting that I'm lying about my post being deleted from the the facebook page just last week. Just as I am "an anonymous person on DIS claiming this and that happened to them is not fact" is in fact a fact to me. And who on DIS isn't "an anonymous person"? BTW, I've been a member of DIS longer than you and have more posts than you along with many others that are posting in this thread. And will trust those that have been around longer than a few months.

You yourself have stated that it is really to early to know if this new system is a fail for Disney so it goes without saying that it too early to also say if the system is a success also. And since many people plan trips to Disney up to a year in advance, most will continue on with that trip even with the changes. So again, hard to say if the changes will bring them back. But I took your bait....hook, line and sinker.