Transportation Complaint

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I don't know if the Four Seasons will affect Disney in the least...if they knew it would, why allow the build?

As bus services go, Disney happens to do a remarkable job with the amount of people and locations they handle per day with a constantly changing schedule.

Crammed busses are a side-effect, yes, but it has never been so bad that I didn't get back to my hotel or ever thought about renting a car. (Which is certainly your choice!)

In my mind, if you don't like the service, don't use it! More room on the busses for me and my fam

Disney will probably not drop a penny of it's own $$$ into anything but DVC - it's cash cow. When was the last non DVC property developed?

They are happy to take a % of revenue from the Four Seasons for absolutely no effort.....sounds like a win-win to me.


Text from Orlando paper - March 2

Please note it's not just the Four Seasons - the Four Seasons got everyone's attention. There are also plans for Vacation Homes and less expensive hotel rooms as well in the development plans elsewhere at WDW.


Walt Disney World plans to break ground on a luxurious Four Seasons resort this year, bringing one of the world's most prestigious hotel brands to a theme park long considered the ultimate middle-income vacation destination.

Disney offered few details about the hotel, which would rise near an 18-hole golf course in the northeast sector of the resort. The Four Seasons would be the centerpiece of an as yet unnamed 900-acre development that would also include an assortment of luxury vacation homes.

In what seemed a counterpoint to Thursday's announcement, Disney said it is planning a second development on the western side of its property that would appeal to less-affluent travelers. That one, which is also unnamed, would include thousands of "value-priced" hotel rooms, as well as assorted restaurants, shops and small entertainment businesses.

Disney World President Meg Crofton said the projects would be "first of a kind." But the Four Seasons was the attention grabber.

The hotel, which hasn't been designed, would face the Osprey Ridge Golf Course, which would be improved. A second golf course, Eagle Pines, and other land would be developed with single- and multifamily vacation homes.

Four Seasons is one of the world's elite hotel brands, catering to affluent travelers with opulent decor and impeccable service. Abe Pizam, dean of the Rosen College of Hospitality Management at the University of Central Florida, said it will bring Disney's lodging portfolio to a new level.

"The fact is that Disney doesn't have anything like this," Pizam said. "This is the sort of hotel that attracts the richest of the rich. It's the creme de la creme. If there were six-star hotels, these would be it."

The hotel will add to the region's growing portfolio of high-end resorts. JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton, which form the Grande Lakes Orlando resort near John Young Parkway, fit the category. And recently announced plans for a Waldorf-Astoria hotel and an Intercontinental hotel near Disney World are also in the league.

Pizam said no one knows how deep the market for luxury rooms is, but their arrival in Central Florida speaks to hotel developers' perception of the market.

The west-side project would have a decidedly different feel. It would include 4,000 to 5,000 hotel rooms in low- and mid-rise buildings, and would include as much as 500,000 square feet of commercial space for restaurants, shopping and small-scale entertainment businesses.

Disney, which typically doesn't announce development plans until they are fully formed, made an exception with the two projects. Even in its vague form, the Four Seasons plan speaks to Disney's effort to attract ever-more-affluent travelers.

Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts earlier had acquired land from Disney to build a hotel in Celebration, south of the theme parks. Both Disney and Four Seasons said that site would now be used for something else.

"I don't believe we will own the Celebration land anymore," Four Seasons spokeswoman Elizabeth Pizzinato said. "But this whole thing is very new. There hasn't even been a decision on the number of [room] keys the hotel will have."

The chain operates 74 hotels in 31 countries, including Florida properties in Miami and Palm Beach. The company, which has 25 properties under development worldwide, expects to open the Disney World hotel in 2010.




People love new - and by the time the more affordable hotel rooms are open....Disney Resorts are going to be far from new....with the exception of DVC.


Perhaps with the % income from all these new properties, Disney can afford to have better bus service! Until then.....nothing beats the convenience of a rental car!

 

[CanadianGuy]

If anyone can point to an off-site resort with shuttle bus service to all major parks.. water parks and DTD ... that runs on a schedule even CLOSE in frequency to Disney -- I'll go stay there on my next trip.

I'm not aware of one.. In fact, I see it in trip reports and off-site reviews all the time.. "Great resort bla bla ...Shuttle bus? Not so great, should have rented a car!"

While the off site locations may offer better amenities and space in many regards -- a better transportation system than Disney's isn't on the list that I've seen.

That said - the price of diesel has probably hit bus service pretty hard in the last few months and I'd bet they are under tremendous pressure to keep costs down ...

If you operate a fixed budget operation like the Disney buses ... if you experience a sudden, unexpected increase on part of your operation (fuel costs) you're going to start looking at places to save in other areas (better deal on insurance, fewer buses overall etc)

Until those buses are running on hydrogen fuel cells or that warm Florida sun ... cost management is going to be a major concern. Especially if oil, gas and diesel prices continue, as expected, to climb.



Knox

 

[teach22180]

I don't think that is a fair comparison at all. There is a difference in safety and line cutting. I don't believe it is safe for young children to stand on buses and I do what I can to correct that, but I don't allow people to cut me in line at rides. If both you and your child can sit (I think a child sitting in his mother's lap is still sitting, no?) then why not do such a simple thing to make life easier for others.

-Becca-

You know, Becca, I never thought about children standing! I have only stood up for older folks and would for a pregnant woman or someone holding a sleeping child. I figure little ones have a lower center of gravity, so they are safer to stand than adults. That's why I love these boards; I always find new ways to think about Disney!

 

[DisneyMusician2]

I think many will still choose to stay at Disney Resorts and make use of the busses.

As for the gas prices, I would think that Disney would be using natural gas on its bus fleet by now, especially the newer models, as many public transportation systems have done for years.

But its still expensive.

The busses are crowded. So are NYC subways. The systems are still two of the most efficient of their kind in the world. If someone wants to rent a car, pay those fees and increased gas prices, then so be it!

The Disney people do a pretty good job on their end, perhaps expecting perfection is too much.

(And I always give up my seat to a standing child. I have two working legs and it seems to me like the right thing to do! )

 

[Disneydancer315]

I would like to go in the other direction. I have a 16 year old son and when we are at Disney I fully expect him to get up if there is a pregnant or adult with a small child standing. It is the right thing to do. Everyone in my family does this, adults and all. This is what is right for my family!! I am not saying it is right or wrong and sure they could wait for another bus. But we are all tired and want to get back to our resorts and let's face most of us know what it is like to either be pregnant or have small children!!

 

[eeyoresnr]

I won't go into what's right or what's not, but in Feb we saw something kinda funny (strange funny, not ha ha funny)... We were among the first on the bus at Pop Century; a family got on as the bus was filling up and the father walked to the very back of the bus lugging the stroller and bumping people with it as he went. he sat his stroller in a seat (2 actually) and sat down in the 3rd. his wife came down the isle after him carrying one child about 18 months and holding the hand of another about 3... by now the bus was FULL beyond any I had been on in a long while. the wife found a pole and told the 3 year old to hang on while she held the baby. her husband never even offered to hold one of the children... he even told her he needed to hold the stroller so it didn't fall my husband as well as 2 or 3 others around us offered her their seats but she said 'no thanks' then her husband piped in and said "don't worry about her she's getting good at it" My husband bit his tongue, which is unusaul for him 'cause he usually says what he is thinking out-loud

 

[CleveRocks]

I personally don't feel it has anything to do with entitlement. I think it has more to do with respect, courtesy, thinking about another before yourself - you know - all those things they did in the "olden days". I think they were called - gosh what was it? Oh yeah - manners. That's it - yeah - manners.

Something you don't see too much anymore - but on those rarely occassions when you do - it really makes that person shine.

If it comes from a teenaged boy and I see Mom nearby - I ALWAYS make a comment to her about what a polite son she has. BTW - my teenaged daughter always does the same things expected from the males - why? Not because she has to - but because showing respect and being kind to others just plain and simply feels good.

I agree with everything you said, but I disagree with your conclusion.

Please note that manners and being considerate of others is a huge part of my life, and I teach my kids by example.

However, manners is a 2-way street. I would argue that a strong sense of entitlement is an ill-mannered way of thinking. Let's say I'm an elderly man or a pregnant woman. If I shoehorn myself into an already over-crowded bus and expect a seat, then what I have done was decide that someone else will be inconvenienced for me. And I think THAT is inconsiderate and demonstrates a dreadful lack of manners.

It goes both ways.

I am delighted when I see the kindness of strangers ... but I'm adult enough not to rely on it to the detriment of others.

 

[dreamergirl78]

THIS is why I LOVE having a rental. I don't expect perfection, but it is not worth it to me personally to deal with the junk that goes along with riding the busses. We still use them from time to time, but I have found having a rental car makes life so much easier.

 

[Eeyore's Tiara]

I will say I am amazed by the difference in opinions that I have seen here. I guess I just never stopped to think about how people may think differently about things like this.

I will say that whenever I have ridden a loaded bus, I never expect anyone to be gracious and I am always, always pleased with their generosity when they do offer their seat.

On the other side of that, I have witnessed a woman get on the bus holding a baby in one hand, a stoller in the other and she refused a seat. Then after the bus driver made one good corner, I have offered again and had the mother take it. It's hard to stand with a small child. It means I have to take two of my children into my lap, but that's better than seeing a mother and baby get hurt. My middle child will just stand between my legs and hold on, my littlest will sit in my lap.

I really can't believe someone wouldn't give up a seat for a pregnant woman! I am amazed.

My oldest child has been taught to ALWAYS give up her seat to someone who needs it. She has been taught to respect others and if she can't maintain her manners on a bus at Disney, then we don't need to be there. I know how tired people are when they come out of the parks, that's why it's that much more important to be courteous to others. This is just my opinion, and I have been cranky on more than one occassion when it's really hot, but I try to look for someone else to help to take the focus off myself. To me being polite and helpful extends the disney magic at least for the person involved and for my family. The disney magic is why we go.

So you may not give up your seat, which is your decision. But speaking for my family, we will!

 

[Tracie]

My 2 teen DS always give there seats for someone else on the busses, not because they were raised better than others or because I taught this as part of their manners lessons. They have seen their dad do it. I'm so happy to be at WDW I have really never thought about the fact that others could have waited for the next bus for a seat or that they expect someone to get up for them, if I see someone who needs the seat more than I do I offer it to them.

 

[EnnEss]

Until those buses are running on hydrogen fuel cells or that warm Florida sun ... cost management is going to be a major concern. Especially if oil, gas and diesel prices continue, as expected, to climb.



Knox

That'd be so nice. One of the leading hydrogen fuel cell producers is near me, they just put buses into action for a city, maybe chicago? Just one or two. The monorails for disney were built (the new ones) about 5 minutes from my house, which is about 5 minutes from the fuel cell place. It'd be so neat if disney got hydrogen buses and put up one station for a hydrogen highway.

I know this would actually be very pricey because there is no mass production, I just think it'd be very neat. THey could showcase it in innoventions and be true leaders.

 

[EnnEss]

If it comes from a teenaged boy and I see Mom nearby - I ALWAYS make a comment to her about what a polite son she has. BTW - my teenaged daughter always does the same things expected from the males - why? Not because she has to - but because showing respect and being kind to others just plain and simply feels good.

You're biasing who gets a seat based on gender? That has nothing to do with manners, thats entitlement. And "expected from males", are you kidding me? There is just no reason for an able bodied male to up give his seat to an able bodied female. There is also zero reason a male should give his seat up instead of a female for an elderly person, both should for the same reasons. Luckily, in my many hours spent daily on transit very few think this way, often whoever sees the person in need of a seat (disabled, elderly, injured) gets up first, just as often male as female.

The second you begin to define anything in terms other than "people" and switch to male/female you're assigning gender roles that include entitlement.

 

[silverarrowknits]

Okay, my DD (college age) and I were just down there at POP. All of the buses were packed. In most cases, if an elderly-fragile person or someone holding a child boarded when there was SRO, there was always someone offering their seat.

My problem was when we would board one of those buses with the wide middle aisle and few seats ... the standing people would go 3/4 of the way down the aisle and then stop. The next few people would space themselves out and then the front half of the bus would be jammed like sardines!! In many cases, we would have to leave about 6 people to wait for the next bus.

Now if those first people who were standing would have just moved ALL THE WAY to the back of the bus, everyone could have boarded and been on their way instead of having to wait 20 minutes for the next bus.

Usually the bus driver would say - "Move on back" - but these people were oblivious!!! A couple of times, I would tap the people and say "I think you can probably move back a little more so others can get on." They would look surprised (like "Oh, I didn't know others wanted to ride the bus") and then would move back a little.

The buses seemed more crowded because of less seats.

Also, the aisle are designed to have people standing two abreast, but (see above) those in the back would just be single-file.

Yes, I know we all hate to be packed in, but I hate to have to wait another 20 minutes STANDING at the bus stop too ... especially after we'd already been there 15 minutes!!!

OMG, I totally agree with you. I was just about to vent about this very topic! For a summer I commuted to downtown Pittsburgh from the 'burbs. There were several days that the early bus didn't show up, so twice the number of people would squeeze onto my "usual" bus. No one ever complained about squishing together. We always tried to get everyone on the bus, because we were all trying to get to our jobs. There were definitely days that I was being held up not by the safety bar but by the sheer number of people standing around me. I dealt with it, it was a 30 minute ride and that is just how it goes some days.

WDW buses (like buses in the real world) are meant to be crowded with people standing up. I hate seeing so many buses leave at the end of the night literally 2/3 full, because people want their 3 feet of space. We all want to go back to our rooms! Move down. I hate it when I see people walk into a bus and then realize there aren't any seats so they stand in the FRONT of the bus instead of walking all the way down. My other favorite is when one family member gets a seat and so the rest of the 25 members of the family decide to stand around him/her instead of going to the back of the bus, so no more people can enter. I get it if a small child is using the seat and mom or dad wants to be close to the child, but otherwise....seriously? seriously can the family not separate for a whole 20 minutes when the bus is usually only going to 1 destination? Okay, yes sometimes the bus is going to a couple of places, but again I am talking about the adults, if they miss their stop, they can handle it.

Yeah, this is probably going to get me flammed but I got my and if tons of people can fill several threads about how they hate AK (which I love), I can give you my honest opinion about bus etiquette.

In regards to offering seats, I have seen several people offer seats to moms, kids, older adults, females, and those who physically appear to need a seat.

 

[Dannielle_1]

When I was pregnant (7mths) in fall of 2005, I would say I stood 50% of the time that it was standing room only. I was actually fine with this and didn't feel I needed a seat, but if some one offered, I did take the seat.

But, my funny story is this. My husband and I were one of the last to get on a standing room only bus. I was fine with this, but apparently the bus driver was not. He made an announcement on the intercom, "There is a pregnant lady who needs a seat!!!" It actually took a few announcements before a man was elected by his wife to stand up for me. I then had to squeeze through the very crowded bus to get to the seat. The bus clapped for the guy and I was just mortified. I would have rather stood.

 

[stellablue]

I kind of gave up on bus etiquitte on our trip in December. I was seven months pregnant (very visable...not one of those cute petite pregnant women!) and my husband was holding our sleeping 40 pound 3 year old, and we always managed to end up having to stand when coming home from parks. Not one time did anyone ever offer us a seat. I mean, we survived, and it wasn't that big of a deal really...but that is just what we observed.

Like I said...it didn't bother us, me and my kankles survived (LOL), but it was just kind of an observation, and a little bit surprising after reading endless bus etiquitte threads on the DIS.

I don't think people mean to be rude sometimes, I think they are just oblivious at the end of a long day.

ETA...I realize this post sounds rambling and pointless. I edited four times and still am not sure it makes sense, or has a point. Sorry! Long day.

Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but I couldn't resist:
I love your NKOTB Reunion signature!!!!

 

[JerseyMamaBear]

Kids are usually on my lap (yup he's 12 next month) or they will sit on one seat together and I will stand If its crowded or if someone who is in need more then I am comes by.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Truth be told....WDW will always budget a little less than they really need to operate the bus system.... and force the system managers to "deal with it". This is how they have run their resorts the last few years......or at least according to resort management castmembers we spoke with. It's the same for all Disney owned cost centers.

However, they will NEVER discontinue the busses because we would all then find our own way around - and OFF property!!!

Why do you think they came up with DME?

 

[Sobes]

I was just there and noticed the same thing too. When we sat down our 2 year old sat either on my lap or my DW lap. I gave up my seat a few times, but after the second night when my DW, me and my DD(3) had to stand while she was asleep on my shoulder and no one gave up a seat I stopped. ALso, since when is it a problem to bring a stroller on? Even if it folds up? ( I am being sarcastic). I had a guy basically "yell" at my DW because our stroller was taking up the aisle. I told him what do you care you are on the bus arent you? He was one of those wonderful people that let me stand with my two year old. Maybe because our stroller took up too much room for him?

 

[itsmebabygi]

I am from the NY area and when I take the subway with my DBF, he will always give up his seat if someone needs it, and people act like they hit the jackpot and dive at the seat as if he didn't realize what he was giving up. I guess people forgot what courtesy is even if they are the ones benefiting from it.
I can't imagine not giving up my seat if someone needed it. I am not really understanding the posts of people who say they would not. You are still both getting to the same place, so you really aren't losing much, but it could make a big difference to someone else.

 

[vt_disney_fan]

We've gone the last five years, with the following group make-up:

2003 - Me, DW, DS7, DD4
2004 - Me, DW, DS8, DD5
2005 - Me, DW, DS9, DD6, DD 3 months
2006 - Me, DW, DS10, DD7, DD 16 months
2007 - Me, DW, DMIL, DS11, DD8, DD 2.5, DD 3 months

As you can see, our group has grown increasingly large, with increasing numbers of small children!

Have the buses sometimes been a problem? Yes. Have they been a problem every time? No. With the little ones, my DW had them in a Baby Bjorn, so holding them wasn't an issue, but it was difficult with the other little one, who needed someone to hold her. The older 2 were OK either way. There were times when we all got seats, the bus didn't fill up, and we kept them. There were times when we all got seats, the bus filled up, some people w/o kids were standing, and we still kept them.

There were times when we all got seats, the bus filled up, got real crowded, some elderly people or pregnant women or people holding small kids were standing. What did we do, EVERY SINGLE TIME? Depended on which year. The first 2 years, we ALL stood, b/c we ALL could physically, and we could ALL make it easier on those who had it tougher. The next 3 years, as we had smaller babies, my DW needed to hold them in a seat for safety reasons, but myself and the older 2 could, and did, stand so they could have seats. This past year, I made sure my DW and DMIL had seats, as they were carrying the smaller 2, and if there was room for the others to have seats, they got them; if there wasn't, or there were people who needed them worse, they didn't. They know the drill, and I tell them why they have to do it.

In my book, no able man should be sitting, when elderly/pregnant/child-carrying people are standing. Period. For me, that includes my able children. That's just the way I was raised, and I find it respectful. I personally think it's rude to do otherwise. If my wife carrying an infant (or any elderly/pregnant/child-carrying person) is standing on a bus, and an able man is sitting and can offer her his seat, and doesn't, I personally don't think any more of that man than I do a pile of whale crap. It is completely being selfish and looking out for what's best for YOU, rather than what's best for others. In my opinion, that's a lot of what's wrong in this world.

Anyone, of course, is free to disagree, that's your right. There are those who say that "first come, first serve", or "wait on another bus." And like I said, that's often the mindset. But also as I said, I was raised to help and respect those less able than yourself, and that applies on Disney buses as much as it does anywhere else. Like I said, too much thinking of ourselves, and not enough thinking of others.

Out.