Train could pass though Disney World

[hertamaniac]

I just can't see replacing DME with train. The user experience isn't great.
Today:
Exit luggage area, short walk to DME. Bus ride direct to report. 45-60 minutes typical.
With Train:
(some must go get luggage)
ride airport shuttle train to Brightline train station
wait for train - will it run as often as a DME bus gets dispatched?
ride train
get off, wait for a bus to resort (moving your luggage if not handled for you)
ride bus to resort

It's an extra step and two waits. Even though the train ride would be about 15 minutes instead of 30, the extra wait and bus cancels out any time savings. Anyone else think this is a great idea?

Also it's NOT cheaper! A train is a gigantic capital investment that has to be paid back ... it will cost a lot more than operating buses and paying drivers for quite a long time... like 10 years or more. This is why we don't have more trains here. Amtrak loses money even in high use corridors and requires subsidies. Other countries pay for rail in taxes more than by fares.

I agree the logistics are questionable. Given the parking lot probability of I-4 due to an accident/jam, I think the 30 minutes is the best case scenario.

I remember visiting Las Vegas before (and after) they put their monorail system in place on the strip and thought it would eventually be tied into the airport given the proximity. But I don't think it is tied into the airport even though it is much closer than MCO is to DS.

 

[doconeill]

I just don't see how this will be helpful. Pay for a ticket to take the train from the airport to somewhere near Disney Springs. Now what? I have all my luggage and no vehicle. Will they have free buses from there to your resort? How many stops till my resort? As slow as Disney Express may be at times, it still seems like that will be much faster than this option.

Much shorter bus runs between Disney Springs and the resorts means faster runs with less buses.

One problem with this post, Disney does not own the Buses but they are owned by Mears, the Bus drivers are not Disney employees (i.e, Cast Members). Disney contracts with Mears.

And Disney pays Mears for that contract at least enough to cover costs. It will depend on what the costs of operating two or more FRA-compliant (maybe, depends on the exclusive use of tracks, etc. - I forget the requirements) trainsets to run shuttle contracted via Brightline vs. I don't know how many buses.

I agree the logistics are questionable. Given the parking lot probability of I-4 due to an accident/jam, I think the 30 minutes is the best case scenario.

Doesn't I-4 argue that it SHOULD be replaced with train? I doubt the WDW station would be situated in such a way that travel on I-4 would be a requirement.

As for the time requirements, sure it will take a bit longer. But if Disney can save money on it AND still keep you on property, that time isn't a concern to them.

I haven't checked, but will there NOT be a peoplemover to the train station/south terminal?

 

[hertamaniac]

Doesn't I-4 argue that it SHOULD be replaced with train? I doubt the WDW station would be situated in such a way that travel on I-4 would be a requirement.

You realize that this train would practically go right through Universal too? So if the powers-that-be are looking at easing traffic from MCO to the theme parks, then I don't think they should be shortsighted at stations for both WDW and Universal.

 

[middlechild]

You realize that this train would practically go right through Universal too? So if the powers-that-be are looking at easing traffic from MCO to the theme parks, then I don't think they should be shortsighted at stations for both WDW and Universal.

If the train did indeed bypass all of I-Drive businesses you can imagine the pushback against any government approvals. Think the Easstern Gateway project in Anaheim level resistance. As you start adding stations to appease the masses, you lose the support of TWDC. Remember, DME is to get tourists only to WDW and it works because Disney funds it allowing the busses to bypass I-Drive corridor. Any mass transit applying for approvals would not be seen favorably unless it was far away from DS.

 

[Mr. Drauer]

You realize that this train would practically go right through Universal too? So if the powers-that-be are looking at easing traffic from MCO to the theme parks, then I don't think they should be shortsighted at stations for both WDW and Universal.

If the train did indeed bypass all of I-Drive businesses you can imagine the pushback against any government approvals. Think the Easstern Gateway project in Anaheim level resistance. As you start adding stations to appease the masses, you lose the support of TWDC. Remember, DME is to get tourists only to WDW and it works because Disney funds it allowing the busses to bypass I-Drive corridor. Any mass transit applying for approvals would not be seen favorably unless it was far away from DS.
[/QUO

the plan that Brightline has put out does not go by Universal or I-Drive. There was an old rail plan to get from OIA to WDW via tracks co-located on the Beachline which could also service the convention center, but the plan they have moved forward which exits the airport to the south and goes along SR 417, with the stop at Meadow Woods to tie in to SunRail... There is no longer a rail envelope along I-4 from the Beachline to Universal either. There is still one on I-4 south of the Beachline to WDW and beyond that is part of the old High-Speed Rail project that Governor Scott killed. The government approvals mentioned are not local government - they approved the tie-in and station at OIA already, and would readily approve the SunRail tie-in, but rather NEPA approvals, Army Corps 404b permit, State ERP permit, and most importantly is getting an agreement from FDOT to co-locate along or even bridge I-4. FDOT had been negotiating about access near World Drive and I-4 previously with Brightline, but had not advanced much closer to WDW because of the complexity of the I-4 Beyond the Ultimate Design in this area. The rail envelope on I-4 is currently proposed down the center median which is tricky with the future elevated express lanes and elevated CD roads that are part of the I-4 expansion project.

Also - this is not intended to be a commuter rail line. It is high speed passenger rail, which means limited stations in order to make the trip quicker for the cost.

 

[Eric Smith]

I agree the logistics are questionable. Given the parking lot probability of I-4 due to an accident/jam, I think the 30 minutes is the best case scenario.

I remember visiting Las Vegas before (and after) they put their monorail system in place on the strip and thought it would eventually be tied into the airport given the proximity. But I don't think it is tied into the airport even though it is much closer than MCO is to DS.

The problem with the Vegas monorail is that it runs behind the resorts on one side of the strip. Even within those hotels, it's a hike to get to. From the hotels on the opposite side of the strip, it really doesn't work. It's in a terrible location.

 

[hertamaniac]

If the rail is proposed down the center of the median of I-4, it would go right past Universal.

 

[hertamaniac]

The problem with the Vegas monorail is that it runs behind the resorts on one side of the strip. Even within those hotels, it's a hike to get to. From the hotels on the opposite side of the strip, it really doesn't work. It's in a terrible location.

Actually, there is a monorail on the other side which we used between TI and Mirage. I seem to remember taking a monorail from Bellagio to Luxor too. It is done haphazardly on that side of the strip.

They should complete the loop with airport access and go past Pawn Stars to Freemont. But that is wishful thinking on my part.

 

[gharter]

Much shorter bus runs between Disney Springs and the resorts means faster runs with less buses.

That may be true for Disney. But as a guest, I'm not sure this really helps me.
It will depend how far away the train terminal is from the airport. Walking distance or take a shuttle to the train. Then wait times for the train and cost of the train. Then wait more for a bus to take me to my resort. How many stops before my resort (I don't expect they will have 1 bus for each resort)?
It will be interesting to see if it ever happens.

 

[Mr. Drauer]

If the rail is proposed down the center of the median of I-4, it would go right past Universal.

I think you have your locations just a bit off. Universal is north of SR 528. THis is the proposed route.

 

[hertamaniac]

I think you have your locations just a bit off. Universal is north of SR 528. THis is the proposed route.

View attachment 540143

Didn't a poster state that the local newspaper said the route was on I-4? Were they mistaken? Epic Universe is located south of I-4.

 

[Spridell]

Didn't a poster state that the local newspaper said the route was on I-4? Were they mistaken? Epic Universe is located south of I-4.

Yes it was in the Palm Beach Post this morning.

Now they could be wrong so take it for what its worth.

 

[Mr. Drauer]

Didn't a poster state that the local newspaper said the route was on I-4? Were they mistaken? Epic Universe is located south of I-4.

Epic Universe is north of SR 528, east of Universal Blvd and south of Kirkman Road, which is also east of I-drive. all of that is well north of this. As you can see - the red line does go down I-4 from the SR 417 interchange to Tampa. IF they get to WDW, it will involve a spur line or using the original station planned during high speed rail at World Drive and across from Celebration. Again though, Brightline does not have any use agreement in place with either FDOT or CFX (to use 417) or with CSX to use their tracks south of airport.

 

[manning]

Trains don’t sit in traffic and I don’t fly .

But they do pull onto sidings to wait for freight trans to go by. My friend and his wife took Amtrak from Chicago to San Francisco, said it was a pain in the butt. Of course I don't there would be any on this route

 

[Oldnewfan]

If we think about it compared to the rest of the world the US is kind of behind the times in terms of high speed rail. We should be looking at cities in Asia who do this and do it very well. Rail can work well if done right.

Wasn't impressed in Europe. Stunk to high heaven and more expensive than flying at times.

 

[pkgman]

But they do pull onto sidings to wait for freight trans to go by. My friend and his wife took Amtrak from Chicago to San Francisco, said it was a pain in the butt. Of course I don't there would be any on this route

Outside of NE, Amtrak runs on lines owned by freight railroads. They have priority of their own lines.

Since no rail lines current run from MCO to Disney, they would be building their own lines. They would have exclusive use of the rail lines.

 

[PortMickey]

I remember this exact discussion in 1998 and every year since. There was even a statewide vote that approved the bullet train in the early 2000s. The Federal Government even offered Billions to help build it but Florida refused the money because the costs to run it would be so costly. BUT, Every new overpass on I-4 built since the early 2000s has been designed/built with the train corridor. All of the newer overpasses are already "train ready".

 

[DOPEY44]

Trains at WDW is a fantasy. Just like an airport on WDW property. A ground level train is all but impossible. Looking at google maps of the area around Disney Spring, much of it is land locked and
train crossings are a real hazard. Trains need allot of room to maneuver, aka turn radius. One could elevate the tracks, but there are already elevated walkways and flyovers (overpasses) to go around.
One poster stated that the train would run down the median of I4, that has it's own set of hazards with it. Unfortunately buses are the best transportation.

 

[New Mouse]

Trains at WDW is a fantasy. Just like an airport on WDW property. A ground level train is all but impossible. Looking at google maps of the area around Disney Spring, much of it is land locked and
train crossings are a real hazard. Trains need allot of room to maneuver, aka turn radius. One could elevate the tracks, but there are already elevated walkways and flyovers (overpasses) to go around.
One poster stated that the train would run down the median of I4, that has it's own set of hazards with it. Unfortunately buses are the best transportation.

With the current i4 construction its not as far fetched... basically if theres a time it could happen, now would be that window.

 

[chasgeese]

Trains at WDW is a fantasy. Just like an airport on WDW property. A ground level train is all but impossible. Looking at google maps of the area around Disney Spring, much of it is land locked and
train crossings are a real hazard. Trains need allot of room to maneuver, aka turn radius. One could elevate the tracks, but there are already elevated walkways and flyovers (overpasses) to go around.
One poster stated that the train would run down the median of I4, that has it's own set of hazards with it. Unfortunately buses are the best transportation.

I mean while Brightline has been having issues, especially since COVID, the plan has always been to go from Miami to MCO with the next phase from MCO to Tampa. A stop at WDW was always under discussion, this is just a more concrete version of those plans.

I agree that a train just from MCO to WDW would never make sense, but if the train was already going in that direction on its way to Tampa, I see how it would make sense to add a stop at WDW. I could see a lot of people on the route from Miami to Tampa taking advantage of a train to WDW instead of driving, especially once WDW transportation is back up to full capacity.