To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[FredtheDuck]

I had the same thought! Interested to see what you think.

 

[canglim52]

Another new toy arrived today:

View attachment 235057

They are Columbia Arm Sleeves that are intended to keep the skin cool during high solar radiation days. I recently read some research that validates the use of these to increase performance on sunny days, so I'm interested to see if the research matches real life. I could definitely tell they were cool on the skin when I tried them on. They're not very flexible though and a really tight fit. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

Wow! Let me know how these work, they could be really useful down here!

 

[*DisneyDreamer]

Hi Billy! I don't think I've posted in your training report before, but I'm joining in! I'm curious to follow your training leading up to the Lakefront Marathon and hopefully your BQ. Your progress since you first started running is incredible and so inspirational.

And your daughter by the way is adorable!

 

[FFigawi]

Another new toy arrived today:

View attachment 235057

They are Columbia Arm Sleeves that are intended to keep the skin cool during high solar radiation days. I recently read some research that validates the use of these to increase performance on sunny days, so I'm interested to see if the research matches real life. I could definitely tell they were cool on the skin when I tried them on. They're not very flexible though and a really tight fit. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

Arm sleeves work very well, even better when you pour water on them.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I had the same thought! Interested to see what you think.

I'm excited to give them a try!

Wow! Let me know how these work, they could be really useful down here!

Will do! Not sure when I'll first start using them. At this moment, I'm anticipating needing them for the Hot2Trot 10k (6/17). Last year was super hot and I crumbled. So I'll plan on using them on some hot days in between now and then.

I don't think I've posted in your training report before, but I'm joining in!

I'm curious to follow your training leading up to the Lakefront Marathon and hopefully your BQ.

I'm REALLY excited! If things go correctly, this will be a culmination of 5 years of hard work. I'm also really excited to write the training plan for this one. I'll apply the lessons learned from last year's Lakefront training (where I pushed too hard on easy days and didn't have enough bone recovery) and some of the recent research/literature I've been reading.

Your progress since you first started running is incredible and so inspirational.

Thanks! I always like to say that I'm not anything special physiologically. I'm just blazing a trail for others to follow based on sound physiological research and current understanding.

And your daughter by the way is adorable!

Thanks!

Arm sleeves work very well, even better when you pour water on them.

Interesting! Do you know if the temperature of the water and/or volume of water used plays a role in maximizing their effectiveness?

 

[FFigawi]

Interesting! Do you know if the temperature of the water and/or volume of water used plays a role in maximizing their effectiveness?

No, sorry. When people use them over here, they just pour on whatever water is on hand, enough to get them wet but not more than what would be in a cup at a water stop.

 

[DopeyBadger]

No, sorry. When people use them over here, they just pour on whatever water is on hand, enough to get them wet but not more than what would be in a cup at a water stop.

Interesting, thanks! I might give a few different variables a try to see if I can tell a difference.

 

[Declanb]

Hi, I posted to you before and have only just found my way back! Not good at these things! I've been trying recently for a Marathon with the goal of a Sub 4hr and honestly felt all set to get there. I had a 1/2 time of 1:47:00 on 17/3/17 which I felt great with - had loads in the tank and felt confident was going to do the sub 4. On the day I set out @ 5:30/Klm pace ( which I felt was well within my capability) but knew by 10k that it was going badly - managed to maintain it for 28k but gave up on it as I knew I'd not finish unless I stopped and eventually crossed the line at 4:08:44 - totally spent and totally devestated. Have all my stats and splits and a thought about going again 6/24/17 for the sub 4hr -would love to get your help and thoughts on what I can do to make it happen.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hi, I posted to you before and have only just found my way back! Not good at these things!

Welcome back! I remember, the marathon in Ireland!

I've been trying recently for a Marathon with the goal of a Sub 4hr and honestly felt all set to get there. I had a 1/2 time of 1:47:00 on 17/3/17 which I felt great with - had loads in the tank and felt confident was going to do the sub 4.

Sounds like the HM of 1:47 justifies that a 4hr marathon is a reasonable goal. The race equivalency of a 1:47 HM is a 3:45 marathon.

On the day I set out @ 5:30/Klm pace ( which I felt was well within my capability)

Agreed, that an 8:51 min/mile (5:30 min/km) pace (a 3:51 marathon pace) is definitely within your capabilities given the 1:47.

but knew by 10k that it was going badly - managed to maintain it for 28k but gave up on it as I knew I'd not finish unless I stopped and eventually crossed the line at 4:08:44 - totally spent and totally devestated.

I know this feeling all to well and have a pretty good idea as to the cause. It's either insufficient training or you trained too hard. Did you do multiple runs over a duration of 150 minutes? Did these runs over 150 minutes represent more than 35% of your total weekly mileage?

Have all my stats and splits and a thought about going again 6/24/17 for the sub 4hr -would love to get your help and thoughts on what I can do to make it happen.

I'd love to help! My first advice is that given the marathon just occurred (sometime in April right?) another "A" marathon on 6/24/17 might be too soon. It's my opinion that for two "A" marathon races, they can't be any closer than 12 weeks. Anything sooner and you really start to push the threshold of recovery and rebuilding the muscle for maximum performance. It predominately has to do with mitochondrial density and volume which takes roughly 12 weeks to go from devastated (right after a marathon) to peaked and race ready. Can you race two marathons less than 12 weeks apart? Sure, it's definitely doable. But "A" racing two within a 12 week period is really tough on the body and includes a high risk for injury. Now if I could convince you to instead run a marathon in Sept/Oct/Nov, I feel reasonably confident that under the following conditions I could get you to a 3:45 marathon:

a) ideal weather conditions on race day
b) 4 day plan with significant time on a weekday (up to 120 min) or a 5 or 6 day plan

Two options - you need 10 posts on the DIS before you can send private messages. So you can either post 7 more time on here and then we can design your plan in private, or you can feel free to continue posting on this thread and answer the following 20 questions (I don't mind at all if you want to carry out the design on this thread):

1) What is your "A" goal?
2) What are some of your other running goals?
3) What are your lifetime PRs?
4) What are all of your race times in the last year? If any of the races had extenuating circumstances (weather, sick, super hilly, etc.) as to why they are not a good judge of your fitness please include that information as well.
5) What went wrong in your best races? What held you back from doing better? Did you feel the reason you couldn't go faster was because a) you were out of breath, b) your legs felt dead tired, or c) some other reason/combination of the two?
6) Have you had any recent injuries or do you feel over the long term you are injury prone?
7) If you've suffered chronic or a recent injury was the cause running related (because we want to avoid it then)?
8) How many and which days are you willing to run each week? How much time on those specific days are you willing to devote to running? (Most important question, so the more detailed response the better.)
9) What fueling do you do during runs? What fueling do you do after runs? What fueling do you do before you run?
10) Are there specific types of runs that make you feel more fatigued than others?
11) Why do you enjoy running? What is your motivation to run?
12) Why have you chosen the goals you've chosen?
13) What type of technology do you use to run? Treadmill, garmin, heart rate monitor, phone app run tracker, etc.
14) Are there any types of fuel pre-run, during run, or post-run that you like better than others? What led you to choose these items versus others on the market?
15) For races that provide splits, do you tend to be positive, negative, or even split? Why do you think that is?
16) What other training plans have you used in the past?
17) What kind of training have you been doing the last three weeks? Mileage, pace, etc?
18) If you run/walk. When you run about what pace do you do? When you walk about what pace do you do?
19) If I told you to run as slow as you can, how fast would you be running? This would be at a pace where you're barely breathing differently than normal walking. It feels like you're barely trying.
20) Most importantly, what is your upcoming race schedule? What/when is your next "A" goal race that you want to focus your training towards?

Thoughts?

 

[Declanb]

Welcome back! I remember, the marathon in Ireland! Yes that's me - Marathon was The Great Limerick Run 4/30/17



Sounds like the HM of 1:47 justifies that a 4hr marathon is a reasonable goal. The race equivalency of a 1:47 HM is a 3:45 marathon.



Agreed, that an 8:51 min/mile (5:30 min/km) pace (a 3:51 marathon pace) is definitely within your capabilities given the 1:47.



I know this feeling all to well and have a pretty good idea as to the cause. It's either insufficient training or you trained too hard. Did you do multiple runs over a duration of 150 minutes? Did these runs over 150 minutes represent more than 35% of your total weekly mileage? Ok I did 4 runs 3Hrs or more.
Sat 25th Feb 3:00:00 - 29.17Klm - 3 runs in the week total 25K
Sat 4th Mar 3:12:17 - 32.22Klm - 2 runs - 16K
Sat 11th Mar 1:59:31 - 19.54Klm - 3 runs - 26.5K
Fri 17th Mar 1:47:00 - Half Marathon PB
Sat 25th 3:07:53 - 32.19Klm - 2 runs - 17K
Sun 2nd Apr 3:19:09 - 33.87Klm - 2 runs 19K

I'd love to help! My first advice is that given the marathon just occurred (sometime in April right?) another "A" marathon on 6/24/17 might be too soon. It's my opinion that for two "A" marathon races, they can't be any closer than 12 weeks. Anything sooner and you really start to push the threshold of recovery and rebuilding the muscle for maximum performance. It predominately has to do with mitochondrial density and volume which takes roughly 12 weeks to go from devastated (right after a marathon) to peaked and race ready. Can you race two marathons less than 12 weeks apart? Sure, it's definitely doable. But "A" racing two within a 12 week period is really tough on the body and includes a high risk for injury. Now if I could convince you to instead run a marathon in Sept/Oct/Nov, I feel reasonably confident that under the following conditions I could get you to a 3:45 marathon:

Hers's my Dilema, I started running 2 years ago Apr '15 - Training myself and 2 Daughters for Dopey 2016. We did Dublin Marathon Oct '15 as a precursor to Dopey then we did dopey. Oct '16 I did Dublin again - on my own- but missed 7 weeks training through Injury (these were the lomg run weeks), made it to the Marathon start line with just an intention to finish - completed it in 4:41:45 but last 4 mile were run/walk/crawl with cramp in both legs. Decided to give it one more shot at the Holy Grail. I don't think i really want to go through another 3-4 month training plan for another attempt - I'm 51 in two weeks, love the running but with various issues am attending physio regularly (Dry Needling mostly). my thought process with the 6/24/17 Marathon offered the opportunity to continue from where i am now for the next 4-5 weeks and give it a go. - Myself and youngest Daughter are doing the Rock n' Rolll in August, We are in Disney Land Paris for the September 5k,10k 1/2 Marathon weekend and in Oct we are in WDW for the Wine & Dine trio (which is the same time as the Dublin Marathon) so there no other real opportunity this year. - I've jsut discovered there is a Marathon on Sun 27th Aug - which i could consider.....

a) ideal weather conditions on race day

Best of luck getting that in Ireland
b) 4 day plan with significant time on a weekday (up to 120 min) or a 5 or 6 day plan

Mid week 2hr could be an issue but would consider both..

Two options - you need 10 posts on the DIS before you can send private messages. So you can either post 7 more time on here and then we can design your plan in private, or you can feel free to continue posting on this thread and answer the following 20 questions (I don't mind at all if you want to carry out the design on this thread):

Will continue to post and see how it goes - Not bothered as it may help others...

1) What is your "A" goal? Sub 4hr - That's it
2) What are some of your other running goals? Would love to hit a 20 Min 5k (Currently 22:49)
3) What are your lifetime PRs?
1Klm Not official but could go sub 4 mins I think
5K 22:48 04/14/16 Not a Race - just a 5k run from my house
10k 49:21 03/17/16
1/2 1:47:00 03/17/17
Full 4:08:45 04/30/17
4) What are all of your race times in the last year? If any of the races had extenuating circumstances (weather, sick, super hilly, etc.) as to why they are not a good judge of your fitness please include that information as well.
Only Races I've ran on my own are the above.
5) What went wrong in your best races? What held you back from doing better? Did you feel the reason you couldn't go faster was because a) you were out of breath, b) your legs felt dead tired, or c) some other reason/combination of the two?
5K Legs tired but probaly could have done better - have a 5k race in 3 weeks, planning to push for PB
The 10K was about 6 weeks after a prostate op (Minor)
Felt Brilliant in the Half
Full was nothing in the legs. Began to struggle at 24k - times dropped to 5:40+ -
at 32k dropped into 6:07 & by 36k hit 6:39 was walking a lot by then.
6) Have you had any recent injuries or do you feel over the long term you are injury prone?
No "injurys" but when doing the high mileage am at Physio usually once a week for Dry Needling - i have a very tight right Calf which needs releasing and also right Quad and hamstring get very tight - Left hip also need releasing every once in a while
7) If you've suffered chronic or a recent injury was the cause running related (because we want to avoid it then)?
Right Calf last Aug/Sept was worst I've had.
8) How many and which days are you willing to run each week? How much time on those specific days are you willing to devote to running? (Most important question, so the more detailed response the better.) I'll commit to whatever you think I need - I Prefer Morning Runs but may have to change that - basicly flexible ( we all work and get home around 6pm and primarily I cook dinner hence the preference to morning) but am ok with change.
9) What fueling do you do during runs? What fueling do you do after runs? What fueling do you do before you run?
Using Cliff Shot blocks for training - generally only on runs above 40 mins and usually 1 bloc every 15-20 mins -For the 2-3hr runs i'll use Gels and generally 1 per hour -
Normally early morning run (typically 5am start) nothing before and Breakfast after - Porridge with Fruit normally
10) Are there specific types of runs that make you feel more fatigued than others?
No not that I can put my finger on
11) Why do you enjoy running? What is your motivation to run?
Freedom of spirit really When I started i'd just have myself for company, now i seem to have the ipod all the time.
Just general fitness - I feel fitter now than I did 20 years ago - was smoking then but was active. Not smoking 11 years now and as i said it was my girls got me running 2 years ago.
12) Why have you chosen the goals you've chosen? Always had it in my head that i wouldn't do a marathon unless I was capable of sub 4Hr but now having taken running somewhat seriously I realise that it is a huge effort and commitment to be able to achieve that sub 4 but i believe I can and would like it as a bucket list check - as I said I'm 51 and don't want to punish my already ageing body much longer before settling for the shorter distance.
13) What type of technology do you use to run? Treadmill, garmin, heart rate monitor, phone app run tracker, etc.
Garmin Fenix2 with HRM
14) Are there any types of fuel pre-run, during run, or post-run that you like better than others? What led you to choose these items versus others on the market?
No - Am completly useless in this area
15) For races that provide splits, do you tend to be positive, negative, or even split? Why do you think that is?
Again Dont race often enough to provide any info - the recent half Marathon was 51:58 for 1st 10k and 49:59 for 2nd 10K (Klm 20 4:19 and 21 4:26)
16) What other training plans have you used in the past?
None Really - Hal Higdon for Dopey - Slightly changed and Martin Yelling for the Limerick Marathon - again didn't stick rigigly to it.
17) What kind of training have you been doing the last three weeks? Mileage, pace, etc?
Marathon was last week
Before that the long run 2nd Apr was 5:53 and generally every run after was between 5:40 and 5:55
Did a 10k this morning as a feel good exercise - 5:08 Pace - Was hard work felt it but OK wasnt trying to break any records or anything just wanted to go relatively quick.

18) If you run/walk. When you run about what pace do you do? When you walk about what pace do you do?
Don't do it
19) If I told you to run as slow as you can, how fast would you be running? This would be at a pace where you're barely breathing differently than normal walking. It feels like you're barely trying.
Probably 6:45 -7:00 I think..
20) Most importantly, what is your upcoming race schedule? What/when is your next "A" goal race that you want to focus your training towards?
Have a 5k in 3 weeks then nothing 'till the RnR in August and that will be with my Daughter so will be around 2Hrs 30
Open for discussion...
Thoughts?

 

[Declanb]

g
HI, Have left responses to your thoughts and Questions

 

[DopeyBadger]

g
HI, Have left responses to your thoughts and Questions

Something that'll help is highlighting the text of mine you want to respond to. When you do that, a "Quote" comes up and you can reply to each sentence individually.

Ok I did 4 runs 3Hrs or more.
Sat 25th Feb 3:00:00 - 29.17Klm - 3 runs in the week total 25K
Sat 4th Mar 3:12:17 - 32.22Klm - 2 runs - 16K
Sat 11th Mar 1:59:31 - 19.54Klm - 3 runs - 26.5K
Fri 17th Mar 1:47:00 - Half Marathon PB
Sat 25th 3:07:53 - 32.19Klm - 2 runs - 17K
Sun 2nd Apr 3:19:09 - 33.87Klm - 2 runs 19K

So I think you did likely train too hard. I'm a firm believer in the 150 min max run threshold. These 3 hr runs caused a significant amount of fatigue and really built up a level of fatigue you weren't able to overcome on race day. The other issue is how massive these runs were in relation to the rest of the weekly training. I try to schedule people at 35% max of weekly mileage or less. Ideally, we're closer to 25%, but that isn't always possible. Again it comes down to balance. I feel an appropriate balance maximizes the race day experience.

Hers's my Dilema, I started running 2 years ago Apr '15 - Training myself and 2 Daughters for Dopey 2016. We did Dublin Marathon Oct '15 as a precursor to Dopey then we did dopey. Oct '16 I did Dublin again - on my own- but missed 7 weeks training through Injury (these were the lomg run weeks), made it to the Marathon start line with just an intention to finish - completed it in 4:41:45 but last 4 mile were run/walk/crawl with cramp in both legs. Decided to give it one more shot at the Holy Grail. I don't think i really want to go through another 3-4 month training plan for another attempt - I'm 51 in two weeks, love the running but with various issues am attending physio regularly (Dry Needling mostly). my thought process with the 6/24/17 Marathon offered the opportunity to continue from where i am now for the next 4-5 weeks and give it a go. - Myself and youngest Daughter are doing the Rock n' Rolll in August, We are in Disney Land Paris for the September 5k,10k 1/2 Marathon weekend and in Oct we are in WDW for the Wine & Dine trio (which is the same time as the Dublin Marathon) so there no other real opportunity this year. - I've jsut discovered there is a Marathon on Sun 27th Aug - which i could consider.....

Here's the key. I think you pushed your body too hard in the last training cycle. Primarily, the training was too focused on the long run which infringed on the other runs.



The pace though was appropriate given your fitness level on these long runs.



I think you'll find that my training is "easier" (it's not easy, but you should feel less sore and pain on most days) but yields better results. Easier because of instead of doing runs at 29-33km, my max for you (150 min) would be 25.8 km (16 miles). In addition, 80% of the overall training is done at long run pace (9:13 min/mile or 5:44 min/km). One of my main rules is you should always finish a run feeling like you could have done one more. One more interval or one more mile. Whatever it may be, it means that you didn't push past the point of no return.

So as far as timing goes, we're 7 weeks from 6/24/17 and 16 weeks from 8/27/17. I could certainly work with the 8/27/17 marathon if you're up for it.

Best of luck getting that in Ireland

Funny! Guess we'll just cross our fingers then!

I'll commit to whatever you think I need - I Prefer Morning Runs but may have to change that - basicly flexible ( we all work and get home around 6pm and primarily I cook dinner hence the preference to morning) but am ok with change.

Mid week 2hr could be an issue but would consider both..

The 2 hr mid-week run would definitely be limited to the very end of the training cycle. I believe that the more you can willing to commit to the better the odds of hitting sub-4. But if we want to limit the duration of the mid-week to say 90 min, then we should consider 5 days per week. I think given your age I would probably alternate between 2 and 3 hard workouts per week to allow maximal recovery time between running. Would the following schedule seem reasonable?

M - OFF
T - Alternate every other week at either Max at 60 (easy) or Max at 90 (hard)
W - Max at 60
R - Max at 90
F - OFF
Sa - Max at 90 min
Su - Max at 150 min

Granted these are the maximums. Most weeks will be less and build to these values over the course of the 16 weeks.

Using Cliff Shot blocks for training - generally only on runs above 40 mins and usually 1 bloc every 15-20 mins -For the 2-3hr runs i'll use Gels and generally 1 per hour -

Going forward we'll want to limit the intake of carbs while running to runs of 90 min or less. This should help force an adaptation by the body to burn fat instead of carbs during the run. If you want to take something for the electrolytes on runs less than 90, that's definitely doable (and advised), but just avoid the carbs. Runs longer than 90 min are definitely a good time for nutrition practice (and helps speed up recovery in training).

Probably 6:45 -7:00 I think..

That's a good "as slow as you can run" pace. I've got you scheduled for 5.9-6.4 min/km as the slowest pace.

Have a 5k in 3 weeks then nothing 'till the RnR in August and that will be with my Daughter so will be around 2Hrs 30

Looks like RnR Ireland is Aug 13th which is two weeks prior to the marathon. Not ideal, but I think given the duration and distance it can be worked in well.

Given your responses, I feel reasonably confident we can get you to a sub-4 on 8/27 given good weather conditions. I think you'll have an interesting dilemma on your hands on race day. You very well might be in 3:42 marathon shape, but would you feel content running a 3:59:59? Does a 3:59:59 and a 3:42 both feel the same? I ask because from a pacing perspective on race day we would choose to hold back if you could be happy with a 3:59:59. This would significantly increase your odds of hitting sub-4. Where going for 3:42 might be possible, but obviously comes with a risk of blowing up and not hitting the sub-4. It's not something you'll have to answer now, but something to ponder during the training cycle. I know this question full well because I may very well be in the same position in October of this year. I might be in 2:55 shape, but my goal from the start 5 years ago was 2:59:59. So would I be content with a 2:59:59 when it may have been possible to hit 2:55. I don't know yet either, but it's something I'm monitoring throughout my training.

Alright, that's what I got. Thoughts?

 

[DopeyBadger]

40 Days to Go (Winding down!)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

5/2/17 - T - 2 mi @ WU + 5 x 1200 @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (2/5)
5/3/17 - W - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
5/4/17 - R - 2 mi @ WU + 3 x 2 miles @ T w/ 2 min REST + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (7/10)
5/5/17 - F - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile + 6 strides
5/6/17 - Sat - 6 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
5/7/17 - Sun - 12 miles @ 7:42 min/mile (10/12)
5/8/17 - M - OFF

Total (training) mileage = 50.4 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 19/27 (70%)

Monday was suppose to be our first soccer class... BUT... It was raining cats and dogs outside, so that didn't happen!



Tuesday

2 mi @ WU + 5 x 1200 @ I w/ 3 min RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD

T+D of 84 with a wind of 16-21 mph. UGH WIND!!!

I pace = 6:03 min/mile (1200m = 4:32 min)
I pace window = +/-5 seconds (4:27-4:37)

Some day this wind will end. Maybe someday soon according to the future forecast.

I set = 4:44, 4:34, 4:47, 4:34, 4:41

Tis the oldest tale of Daniels 10k training - With wind or not with wind...

Interval 1 was 6:11s with wind and 6:40s against wind.
Interval 2 was 6:35s against wind and 6:05s with wind.
Interval 3 was 6:45s against wind and 6:11s with wind.
Interval 4 was 6:22s against wind and 5:58s with wind.
Interval 5 was 6:22s against wind and 5:59s with wind.

It's pretty clear when you look at the paces broken down that with the wind was at or near pace (and for some long stretches) whereas against the wind was just a losing battle. Overall, happy with this workout!

Average pace was a 6:16 min/mile and average HR was a 158. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the wind dies down, but the cool weather sticks around.

Wednesday was soccer day #2! G was super excited before class!



Unfortunately, that enthusiasm didn't hold up throughout class as she definitely started to fade in excitement. I'm hoping I can use a few tricks up my sleeve for the next class to make her more of a participant.

The run was an easy day. T+D of 89 with minimal wind. Figures I get minimal wind on an easy day...

Thursday
2 mi @ WU + 3 x 2mi @ T w/ 2 min REST + 4 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD

Successful run!

T pace = 6:38 min/mile
R pace = 5:38 min/mile (200m=42 sec)

T window = +/- 5 seconds
R window = +/- 1 second

T+D = 95 and wind was 12 mph.

T pace set = 6:42, 6:36, 6:39, 6:41, 6:43, 6:46
R pace set = 39, 43, 42, 40

Overall a good run. I kind of lost grip on the pace in the last mile, but I was happy with how it went. The pace average was 6:41 and the HR avg was 155. And ummm... yea a 39 second 200?!?! That would be ~5:12 min/mile pace. YIKES! Yes sir!

Friday was another easy day. T+D of 99 and wind of 12 mph.

On Saturday, Steph and I spent the majority of the day visiting home improvement vendors. Steph would really like to re-do the kitchen and two baths. So we had some fun shopping around and meeting different vendors to help figure out costs. Our contractor (helped build Steph's sister's house which is down the street) suggested where to go and soon we have all the pieces in place to figure out if its feasible.

Sunday was an easy long run.

T+D of 78 and wind of 12 mph. Overall a beautiful day. Which makes it hurt that much more than I'm not running the Wisconsin Marathon this morning in Kenosha. I've run it the past two years and had less than ideal conditions (80s and then 30mph winds). But today, near perfection...

Today, I gave the Saucony Freedoms a second shot (today at long run pace). The last time I used them I wasn't necessarily happy with their performance at easy pacing. Today went much better. They're definitely a unique shoe among the Saucony line-up. They just have a different feel when your foot hits the ground. I could really tell the difference on the uphills. The shoes seemed to make running up easier. However, the downhills the shoes also start to perform differently. They become really squishy. In theory, I think this sounds like a good thing because it might take pressure off the joints with some more give in the shoes. But for me it seemed to make the downhills seem sloppier. Overall though, the Freedoms performed significantly better at long run pace than easy pace. I'll be interested to see how they perform at marathon tempo next.

Regardless of everything, the run went really well. Hit 10/12 paces comfortably. The average pace of the last 11 miles was a 7:37 with an average HR of 137. Historical long run pace is 138-142. So this is right in line. This same pace was 141 just 2 weeks ago. So still making some serious progress. Only 13 days until the Bunny Head 5k Time Trials!

After the run, Steph, G and I spent a lot of time outside. Lucy wasn't thrilled she was placed in the castle.



Also, G wanted to give you guys another photo shoot. She calls it "Sinister Bunny Gang".



Tuesday or Thursday will be my only test run in my Saucony Kinvara 8 race pair. I'm excited to see how they respond.

These upcoming time trials and races are really going to be an interesting experiment. My HR data suggests a 5k of 17:19-17:48 (5:35-5:44 min/mile) which is just insanely fast. I'm having a really hard time fathoming that. I'm still just hopeful to break 20.

 

[Anisum]

Wednesday was soccer day #2! G was super excited before class!

Tell G that as a lady she'll be able to kick people in the shins and trip them to get the ball and she probably won't get called for it (at least on a coed team) but she should probably apologize when she destroys the other team because that's good sportsmanship.

On Saturday, Steph and I spent the majority of the day visiting home improvement vendors. Steph would really like to re-do the kitchen and two baths. So we had some fun shopping around and meeting different vendors to help figure out costs. Our contractor (helped build Steph's sister's house which is down the street) suggested where to go and soon we have all the pieces in place to figure out if its feasible.

Sounds fun! Are you going to be posting home improvement photos when it starts.

Also, G wanted to give you guys another photo shoot. She calls it "Sinister Bunny Gang".

The Sinister Bunny Gang looks intense. I wouldn't want to meet them in a back alley.

These upcoming time trials and races are really going to be an interesting experiment. My HR data suggests a 5k of 17:19-17:48 (5:35-5:44 min/mile) which is just insanely fast. I'm having a really hard time fathoming that. I'm still just hopeful to break 20.

Wow! So fast! I can't wait to see what you do in your upcoming races

 

[ZellyB]

Sinister Bunny Gang is all kinds of awesomeness!!!

 

[roxymama]

OMG SINISTER BUNNY GANG!!!
Just imagine that group chasing you during the Bunny head time trials. Add a little terror to your run to get those feet moving

 

[Declanb]

So as far as timing goes, we're 7 weeks from 6/24/17 and 16 weeks from 8/27/17. I could certainly work with the 8/27/17 marathon if you're up for it.

Honest answer is that while my head and heart are definately up for it I'm really not sure if my body or life can take it.. I really want to at least try so in the spirit of the whole thing let's say that yes I'll go for it.

The 2 hr mid-week run would definitely be limited to the very end of the training cycle. I believe that the more you can willing to commit to the better the odds of hitting sub-4. But if we want to limit the duration of the mid-week to say 90 min, then we should consider 5 days per week.

I'm prepared to go with the 2 hr mid week if it meant 4 days rather than 5..

Granted these are the maximums. Most weeks will be less and build to these values over the course of the 16 weeks.

Yes I could do that if needed.

Going forward we'll want to limit the intake of carbs while running to runs of 90 min or less. This should help force an adaptation by the body to burn fat instead of carbs during the run. If you want to take something for the electrolytes on runs less than 90, that's definitely doable (and advised), but just avoid the carbs. Runs longer than 90 min are definitely a good time for nutrition practice (and helps speed up recovery in training).

This is all Double Dutch to me I'm afraid, I'll need lots of guidance on food intake and water / nutrition for training if you're up for that.

That's a good "as slow as you can run" pace. I've got you scheduled for 5.9-6.4 min/km as the slowest pace.

Seems OK you did say slow as you can and not slow as you like - your scheduled slow is what I'd like but i could do slower..

Looks like RnR Ireland is Aug 13th which is two weeks prior to the marathon. Not ideal, but I think given the duration and distance it can be worked in well.

(Back to the initial Dilema of the marathon in 7 weeks or an alternative) - The Bigger obstacle here is that we are abroad on a sun holiday from Fri 4th - Fri 11th Aug -I'm ok with running during this holiday but would really want to limit the impact on the Holiday itself

Given your responses, I feel reasonably confident we can get you to a sub-4 on 8/27 given good weather conditions. I think you'll have an interesting dilemma on your hands on race day. You very well might be in 3:42 marathon shape, but would you feel content running a 3:59:59? Does a 3:59:59 and a 3:42 both feel the same? I ask because from a pacing perspective on race day we would choose to hold back if you could be happy with a 3:59:59. This would significantly increase your odds of hitting sub-4. Where going for 3:42 might be possible, but obviously comes with a risk of blowing up and not hitting the sub-4. It's not something you'll have to answer now, but something to ponder during the training cycle. I know this question full well because I may very well be in the same position in October of this year. I might be in 2:55 shape, but my goal from the start 5 years ago was 2:59:59. So would I be content with a 2:59:59 when it may have been possible to hit 2:55. I don't know yet either, but it's something I'm monitoring throughout my training.

I'll Leave this one for Race Day!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Tell G that as a lady she'll be able to kick people in the shins and trip them to get the ball and she probably won't get called for it (at least on a coed team) but she should probably apologize when she destroys the other team because that's good sportsmanship.

LOL, would it help if I said this is a parent/kid class? Which means the only person she'd kick in the shins is me... I'm hopeful it goes better tonight.

Sounds fun! Are you going to be posting home improvement photos when it starts.

If we decide to go through with it, I'll most definitely post pictures. Although, I'll be paying someone else to run through walls like Chip. #ManualLaborAintForMe #ChickenArms

The Sinister Bunny Gang looks intense. I wouldn't want to meet them in a back alley.

Most definitely not. She was trying to smile, but it just came out like this instead...

Wow! So fast! I can't wait to see what you do in your upcoming races

Excited!

Sinister Bunny Gang is all kinds of awesomeness!!!

OMG SINISTER BUNNY GANG!!!

Just imagine that group chasing you during the Bunny head time trials. Add a little terror to your run to get those feet moving

OMG, like truly imagine that. I would be FREAKED out if I saw a bunch of stuffed animals running after me. Let alone that crazed kids face!

I'm mostly excited for the Time Trials because I'll be doing multiple loops which means Steph and G can see me easily without much effort on their part.

Honest answer is that while my head and heart are definately up for it I'm really not sure if my body or life can take it.. I really want to at least try so in the spirit of the whole thing let's say that yes I'll go for it.

Sounds good. We'll plan on the August race. I think it has a significantly higher likelihood of being sub-4 than June. It's definitely possible in June, but the chances are much lower.

I'm prepared to go with the 2 hr mid week if it meant 4 days rather than 5..

Sounds good. Would you prefer option A or B?

Option A

M - OFF
T - 60 min max
W - 60 min max
R - 120 min max
F - OFF
Sa - 150 min max (but can be either weekend day)
Su - OFF

Option B

M - OFF
T - 60 min max
W - OFF
R - 120 min max
F - OFF
Sa - 90 min max
Su - 150 min max

I won't know what each week will look like until I really start working on the nitty gritty. I spend a lot of time on the balance aspect of the plan because I find that to be one of the most crucial aspects.

This is all Double Dutch to me I'm afraid, I'll need lots of guidance on food intake and water / nutrition for training if you're up for that.

No worries. My standard instruction guide includes some guidance on nutrition and I'm more than willing to answer any additional questions you may have.

Seems OK you did say slow as you can and not slow as you like - your scheduled slow is what I'd like but i could do slower..

Most definitely. You're on the opposite end of the spectrum than most everyone else. Most find the easy pace to either be equal to their slowest pace or way slower than they think they're capable of. So this is a good sign, not necessarily a bad one.

(Back to the initial Dilema of the marathon in 7 weeks or an alternative) - The Bigger obstacle here is that we are abroad on a sun holiday from Fri 4th - Fri 11th Aug -I'm ok with running during this holiday but would really want to limit the impact on the Holiday itself

So specifically, what do you think is doable that week? Is it just the Sunday we need to avoid? Or is there something else during that week that will also play a role? I certainly think we can work around this as well.

I'll Leave this one for Race Day!

Wise choice! I'm in the same boat at the moment.

 

[Declanb]

Sounds good. Would you prefer option A or B?

Option A Would suit better

No worries. My standard instruction guide includes some guidance on nutrition and I'm more than willing to answer any additional questions you may have.

Great, I,m sure I'll have a few.

So specifically, what do you think is doable that week? Is it just the Sunday we need to avoid? Or is there something else during that week that will also play a role? I certainly think we can work around this as well.

Not really sure - I like going for a run while away as it shakes off the food, Ice Cream and wine would be up for a couple or 3 runs maybe up to an hour (or even a bit more) just not 3hrs - There are 2 loops available - from memory 1 is about 8 mile the other is about 6.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Option A Would suit better

Sounds good!

Great, I,m sure I'll have a few.

Sounds good! I'm always here when you need me!

Not really sure - I like going for a run while away as it shakes off the food, Ice Cream and wine would be up for a couple or 3 runs maybe up to an hour (or even a bit more) just not 3hrs - There are 2 loops available - from memory 1 is about 8 mile the other is about 6.

I can work this in!

I'm guessing you'll want this in min/km and km as distance? I can make that work, if that's what you would prefer.

I have one training plan I'm currently writing. I have 6 other people in the queue in the process of answering questions. So, dependent on when I get answers from others is when I'll fit you in. If I hear nothing from anyone else, then you're next up. If others answer and are ready to be written, then they'll go back ahead. My hope is to have something to you by this weekend, but I have to see how the week goes.