Tithing- Let's discuss it

[travelitis]

We pay 10% of gross in tithing. Everything is given to us by our Heavenly Father, so this is the least of what we owe Him. We fast once a month and donate to a fund to feed the hungry, so we give about 12% total. Any other charitable donation is in addition to tithes. Our feeling is that we can't afford NOT to pay an honest tithe. We've had so many work associates ask how we live as well as we do on our income, and the secret is tithing, pure and simple. Everything will fall into place, not without struggle of course, if we pay our tithing.

 

[muffy0110]

Could anyone tell me what Jesus made or Paul or John-oh that's right
the BIBLE says they supported themselves. Jesus also said " You recieved
free so give free"-no one should have to pay someone to teach them the
Bible. People should pay for the upkeep of their religious house but not
the people who teach in them-Jesus left us model to be followed closely

 

[MKCP5]

muffy-you are saying that pastors should not be paid? is that correct?

 

[DMRick]

Our Pastor is "on duty" 24/7. We don't want him to be off on a "second" job when he's needed. So unless he was independently wealthy before he came to the ministry, he would be hard pressed to buy food/clothing and pay ren unless he worked full time somewhere. That's why we pay him, to make it easier on him and us. Our Pastor is often called to service in the middle of the night, and stays with the "problem" the next day. Not too many "other" jobs would understand someone not showing up for work. Most Pastors are underpaid for the hours they put in as it is. We pay him because we want to..rather than have him out working during the day, to support his family, and nights and weekends working for us. Some Pastors have other day jobs. We feel fortunate..we can afford him, and we have him as a full time Pastor.

Could anyone tell me what Jesus made or Paul or John-oh that's right
the BIBLE says they supported themselves. Jesus also said " You recieved
free so give free"-no one should have to pay someone to teach them the
Bible. People should pay for the upkeep of their religious house but not
the people who teach in them-Jesus left us model to be followed closely

 

[dadtoagirl]

I've read this whole thread and it seems many people tithe because they feel they have too. I think that if you give you tithes begrudingly then you are better off not giving them at all because God will not bless it. We tithe even when we can't afford it because God has blessed with with so much more than we deserve or need. He deserves much more than my 10%, but I give what I can with a joyful heart. Just my opinion.

 

[muffy0110]

Iam saying pastors should not be paid-Jesus was not, John was not,
Paul and was not. You recieved free give free- Jesus's words not mine.

 

[muffy0110]

Pastors/other religious men-should always put the Kingdom of God first
in their lives the Bible says if they do that all other things will be added to
them. God takes care of those individuals, who put his sheep
first in their lives-God will make away for them and they never go hungary.

 

[DMRick]

I'm curious, how would you recommend they support themselves while they minister? Our Pastor could prob do alright, if he was able to wander and preach as Jesus did..however that's not the case. We want him to stay right here and lead our flock. We don't want him to have worries..so we take care of them for him. His only job is to minister to his flock, and we support him so he can do that without having to go out and work during the day as well. He doesn't ask for pay..we offer it. Some Pastor's of smaller churches do work other jobs as well. Our's doesn't have to.

Iam saying pastors should not be paid-Jesus was not, John was not,
Paul and was not. You recieved free give free- Jesus's words not mine.

 

[mommyoeo]

Iam saying pastors should not be paid-Jesus was not, John was not,
Paul and was not. You recieved free give free- Jesus's words not mine.

Context matters! You can use the Bible to mis-interpret a lot of things! Give freely! Keep scripture in context-- He meant be generous. Are you generous to your pastor? He is probably quite generous to you and your church.

Do you get paid for your job? Does your spouse? Shouldn't you just give freely?!

As to how I'd survive if my DH were not paid, God would provide. I do not depend on my church, but on God, and I am thankful that He provides whatever comes our way. But I am thankful that I have church who is committed to my family as we are to it! All blessing are from above, regardless of who pays us. It may be a church or Wal-Mart, but don't kid yourself into thinking that you have provided for yourself either way.

 

[muffy0110]

I am not mis-interpreting the Bible? The Bible says nothing about Jesus, John
or Paul getting paid by the flock, but it does talk about the jobs they did to
support themselves so they would not be a burden to their flocks.

 

[graygables]

"I'd rather have a pastor with callouses on his hands than callouses on his butt" quote by my father (best Sunday School teacher I've ever known) who raised me a Southern Baptist. Our pastors "back then" *worked*. They strapped on tool belts when someone needed it, repaired cars, harvested crops if the grower was unable, etc. I have NEVER, EVER in my teen/adult life see a pastor do any such thing in the many, MANY churches I have been to. They sit in their studies, make hospital "calls", and might go out in the middle of the night if there's an emergency and they can't get a deacon to go for them. It's late, or I'd take the time to count the number of pastors I've encountered who are like this. I've had ONE pastor in my adult life whom I felt went above and beyond and he was "old school". Do I think pastors should work? You bet. If they are not out among the "flock" at least attempting to minister to all the needs of the people, then they need to get a job. Paul was a tentmaker...I'll bet he had callouses on his hands.

 

[muffy0110]

Paul was a tentmaker-in my religion no person is in a paid position.

 

[gr8ful4Him]

hmmm...seems that this topic has gone WAY off of what it was originally. Tithing is something you do from the heart. It is something you do between you and God. We give because it helps to further the kindgom of God, to reach others in one way or another. Tithing is an honor...to give a part back to God from what he has given freely to you. No matter what your "job" is, He has given it to you "freely" and you should "freely" give back. How much you give back is between each individual and God, as is the rest of what you do in life. I do say if you feel God telling you to do something, even if it seems to make no "financial sense", you should listen up...It's just another way God can tell you He loves you and can and will take care of you.

 

[MKCP5]

muffy, I am curious what religion you are--no thoughts on wrong or right here about paying a pastor, I am just curious. The only pastors I know who are not paid at all by their congregation are ones in very small churches where the congregation could of course not afford to support him, and where, to be honest, there is not a great enough need for him to minister to his flock full time.

 

[Renate_do]

Hi,

the more I read this board the more I get known about the difference between Germany and the USA

If you are a member of the catholic or evangelic church you have to pay 5 or 6% (depends on where you live) of your income tax which is between 19 (starting at about 12k p.a.) and 40% of your cross income. So it is to 0 to 2,4% of your gross income.

A lot of people are now leaving the churches to save this money.

Guess the whole country would cry if they have to pay 10% of there gross income.

Greets Renate

 

[disneymom3]

Could anyone tell me what Jesus made or Paul or John-oh that's right
the BIBLE says they supported themselves. Jesus also said " You recieved
free so give free"-no one should have to pay someone to teach them the
Bible. People should pay for the upkeep of their religious house but not
the people who teach in them-Jesus left us model to be followed closely

Could you please provide verses that say this? I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[rpbert1]

i dont think anyone should be paid for preaching or teaching people about the bible.
In my time i have had friends who have become Ministers priest or pastors or whatever you want to call them for an easylife, they didnt do it for the love of god or for their parishoners they done it for a good job with house and car provided.
How many of these people would you have if there was no car house and wage in it for them, very few indeed.
jesus wasnt paid and his disciples where not paid, they even gave up the security of their jobs i.e fishermen tentmakers tax collector, to follow and preach with jesus.so give me a reson why these people should be paid ,and paid well with all the perks that go al;ong with it.

 

[Amyality]

We used to over tithe -- we're talking 15-20%. Then we found out that the church we were going to had two financial books. One book was the "actual" numbers, and then one had simulated records for the members to view if requested. The "actual" book records finally leaked out, and we found that pastors were getting paid over 135K per two person family, thousands upon thousands for travel, summer homes were paid for from the congregration, and a large land purchase of a camp was funded without input.

So after that.. I saw that my tithe was not helping the poor in India or Cambodia so I now volunteer time. After over $60-75K wasted, I will volunteer time.

Yikes. That is terrible. Double books?!?!!? Is this a church or the mob? I would have forced some of my money back out of them under threat of legal action. Pastor or no pastor that is stealing. I don't tithe but my mother does, seems to make her warm and fuzzy. She is mormon and the money stays inside the church, they support people who are down and out and use it to maintain the facilities. I do lots of volunteer work though, I am not religious...not sure why I am here...bye!

 

[DMRick]

Ours would still be getting those callouses, but when he was helping the men put in the new sound system, he fell, and while my husband thought that sound was the pew breaking, it was actually Pastors leg, in several places. Because his physical labor is curtailed (it's been two years, but he still walks with a cane), he does have more time to teach, preach and visit. His days are still very filled with the Lord's work.

For the poster who thinks he should labor outside the church, as well as within it that's fine, we have no objections, as I said, to using part of our tithe for his paycheck. The house he lives in belongs to the church (and it's figured in as part of his pay), but the car is his. I only hope we pay him enough for him to save for his own home, when he reaches retirement age..if that ever happens. Even then I assume he'll still be in some sort of ministry..it's his calling.

If the poster is happy with his/her church Pastor working outside the church, and you feel he still has enough down time, in between ministering to sleep, and be with his family, and he's ok with it, then that's all that matters.

"I'd rather have a pastor with callouses on his hands than callouses on his butt" quote by my father (best Sunday School teacher I've ever known) who raised me a Southern Baptist. Our pastors "back then" *worked*. They strapped on tool belts when someone needed it, repaired cars, harvested crops if the grower was unable, etc. I have NEVER, EVER in my teen/adult life see a pastor do any such thing in the many, MANY churches I have been to. They sit in their studies, make hospital "calls", and might go out in the middle of the night if there's an emergency and they can't get a deacon to go for them. .

 

[disneymom3]

Some of you have known some pretty unfaithful sounding ministers! Our pastors--we have two--both do their jobs at the church full time. They both finance their own cars and their own homes. The Sr Pastor's wife is a teacher and the youth pastor's wife just started teaching preschool as their youngest is in first grade now. I would not want my pastors to have to leave their families and wander about trying to earn enough to feed themselves. Both of them work very hard. We had VBS recently and on the last day, the Sr Pastor was there with us setting up for Sunday getting all the chairs back in the Sanctuary. The youth pastor was totally in there sweaty and dirty with some other church members knocking out a wall to build a new room for our youth. They also work way more than 40 hours a week, are both there for both Sunday services and every holiday service, weeknight meetings, youth retreats and missions trips etc etc etc. They are men of honor, faith and integrity and our congregation feels blessed to have them serve for us AND that it is important to support them AND their families who give so much of their dad and DH to the church. I don't know that I would make a very good pastor's wife, so my hat is off to them too!