Tithing- Let's discuss it

[utahkennedys]

We pay a full 10% of our gross (not net, even though DH thinks it should be) income. This is a pretty big number now for us...but it is SO worth it. We have also had blessings beyond belief like other posters have mentioned. I never even question it.

 

[dadtoagirl]

We tithe 10% to church whether we can afford or not. I have found when I give the most I end up with the most excess at the end of the month.

 

[gibmom]

BriarRose, I agree with you. I spent many years studying and praying about this (I was raised to strictly tithe 10%) and after studying about covenants I arrived at the conclusion that the tithe was the Old Testament(ie Covenant) way of doing things. Under the Law they(Jews) were required to give certain tithes and offerings(yes, you could call some taxes). Under the New Covenant I am a child of God and all that I have, am , own etc. belong to God. Jesus said, when Peter asked if they were going to pay the temple tax, that the children are not taxed (then provided the money to pay anyway).God promises to meet my needs, not because I've puschased heavenly insurance by always tithing,but because when I acceped Jesus as my Lord and savior I received all the promises of God thru Him.Now giving is done in gratitude for all I have received from God and becuase it pleases Him.I do not keep track of the amount I give. I think a law-like adherence to tithing is like Paul was talking about in Hebrews about dwelling in the wilderness rather than going all the way to the promised land(the life of grace).
We give to meet needs and to bless those who've blessed us(ie local church, any ministry we've been blessed by like Precepts Ministries, we sponser a child through Compassion, or sometimes we give to the stranger standing in front of Walmart who asked us for 14.00 to fix his *something* on his truck).We've let someone stay in our house for several months for free when we were out-of-town.After all, it's not our house, it's God's.I doubt we give 10% of our income. Our hearts are,as well as we can tell, totally devoted to God.By the grace of God I trust He will continue to work out the things in our lives that do not please Him and work us into the mold of Jesus.
Just my take on the subject. No one person on this earth, me included, is the source of all truth.
Julie

 

[tlbwriter]

But *physically* every penny does not come into my household and never will. You can split hairs on it, but no, that money is NOT mine and never will be. Again, if I don't pay my taxes, the government'll throw my butt in jail for taking something that wasn't mine.

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

First, because the money that doesn't come into your household is NOT your taxes, it is your withholding. And you have a lot of control over how much is withheld from your paycheck. Using your logic, you could adjust your withholding to have an extra $10,000 taken out, get a big fat refund, and claim that $10K was "never mine" and therefore not base your tithe upon your real income.

And second, because your taxes are based on what you earn. You cannot pretend you never earned that income simply because it must be used to pay taxes. If you earn $50K, and you have to pay $10K in taxes, you still earned $50K. To say you only earned $40K is dishonest.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

This thread is quite informative, if having little to do with Disney.

As someone who was raised a Catholic, I face a dilemma. I think we should help those less fortunate, but I can't bring myself to give significant money to the church. As a kid, I used to put my money in the basket each week, but as I grew older, I learned more about the kinds of things that money was really supporting, and it broke my trust. I just can't bring myself to believe that God would want me to support the legal defense of child molesters, for example. I also can't bear to think that my Church will help those who are less fortunate, but only if they convert.
I think being a true moral person, in my mind, means asking questions about what my donation is funding. How can donating money to support the legal defense of a child molester (i.e. keeping a real child molester from facing the consequences of his atrocities) qualify me as being a good person? Isn't tithing to the church, in that circumstance, a morally bankrupt action? By all means, I'm not saying that other churches don't do wonderful things, I'm just saying that mine wasn't.
Having said that, I have made the choice to be a giving person in other ways. When I chose my career, I chose the path of helping others over the path of making more money. I have donated my time on many occaisions for the benefit of others. I try to always help animals in need. I'm not perfect, but giving (primarily only) direct help sits best with my consience.

 

[DMRick]

Absolutely, you should be in agreement with your church board as to how the money is spent. We elect our board, and while I certainly don't mean, I would be aghast if they got the carpet cleaned too often, or if I liked one charity they supported over another, that I would stop tithing. However, if I felt the church was morally/sprititually or Biblically wrong in how the tithes were used, and I was not happy with the explanation, if I did feel I had to question it, I would prob not just stop giving, but move onto a church that I felt fit better with my own morals and Biblical beliefs. Do I think if our pastor was wrongly accused of something I would think our church should not support him? Nope, I don't mean that at all.
I can always look to the bulletin board, to see where all the money our church has taken in, has gone, in the monthly reports, and I am welcome to ask questions. That said, I feel it's very important, if I am to be a part of my church, that I also take responsibility in paying it's bills/upkeep and support it's ministry. If everyone gave only outside the church, there would soon not be a church...who would support it? By the way, out church is what I would call a tithinig church, supported by the people. We don't have people running rummage sales, or bake sales..we're are totally self supporting.

I think being a true moral person, in my mind, means asking questions about what my donation is funding. .

 

[MKCP5]

I think the arguing over gross and net is just silly. You can take this out to the very nth degree. Let's not forget that our gifts are tax deductible. So you get a benefit from your taxes as well. DO you then inspect to see exactly how many dollars of benefit that provides to make sure you again tithe onto exactly that dollar amount? Don't misunderstand. I am all for everyone doing whatever their conscience or Christ leads them to do. 10%,20%, 3% plus their time.........whatever! As it has been stated multiple times, that is between you and Christ. But passing down judgements and making statements like "that's fine but its not what the bible says" just begs for trouble. a lighter touch to discuss and educate one another will always get us all alot further. And before you flame me I am most certainly including myself in the getting educated portion of the deal!

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I think some churches do great things, and those activities should be supported, especially by those who use the services of their parish according to their means. It would be wong otherwise. It is very sad what has happened to the Catholic church. A few bad apples have done a lot of damage. But I also think in the case of the Catholic church they have a troubled history as well.

 

[welovedis]

We tithe. That belongs to God (yeppers, right off the top). We also "give"..and some of that giving goes to our church, some goes elsewhere. We don't start giving until we pass the tithe. We owe it, we pay it, it's up to our elected board how it's spent (our church more than gives 10% to the needy). Our church preaches it, however only the financial recorder knows who really does it, and that person ain't talking! We are blessed often, and while we are thankful, we don't tithe for the blessings, but because it belongs to God (the first 10%). He's never let us down, and our bills have always been covered, even during work strikes, layoffs, and shutdowns. What others do, and live with..that's between them and God and they owe me no explanation. Our Pastor is paid about what the median for our church is (guessing and using figures the board thinks is right), and that's only right. Wish we could afford to give him even more. I can say that we are older now, but when we were younger and had young children, sometimes it was hard to put that in the envelope each week..private school tuition was due, had to pay for those braces, but we never faultered, and we never suffered because of it. He always meet the needs. Note I said needs.. sometimes we did less fun stuff, but the needs were always met.

Well said, DMRick!

We tithe 10% of our earnings off the top (before taxes, healthcare,etc...) because that is what we earned. Sure, it was hard at first, now it is the first item in our budget, period. We give beyond that to many charities and causes and volunteer our time as well. I cannot speak for others, but our needs have always been met as well and we have never gone hungry, missed a car or house payment because of our giving.

For us it is a matter of choices made and not giving[\U] is just not a choice in our minds, it is something we will do for the remainder of our lives. We can make others choices that concern how we live, we where go and what we choose to spend our money on but our giving to God is something that will never change.

 

[tiggersthebest]

this has been a very interesting thread. I have been a Christian since I was six and have always been conflicted over the whole tithing because it was OT laws. We give what we can to our church even if it is not as much as I would like to be able to. I believe that it is important to give freely, not just because you expect to be blessed in return. If I am blessed, that is great, if not that is great too because I have the greatest blessing already in Jesus's sacrifice for me.

 

[KCMiller]

Catholic here - can someone point to the place in the Bible where it says to hand over 10% of what you make to 'the church'?


Just curious.


KC

 

[graygables]

Numbers 18:20-32 is one that is used:

20 The LORD said to Aaron, "You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites.

21 "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 22 From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. 23 It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: 'They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.' "

25 The LORD said to Moses, 26 "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD's portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the LORD's portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.'

30 "Say to the Levites: 'When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you as the product of the threshing floor or the winepress. 31 You and your households may eat the rest of it anywhere, for it is your wages for your work at the Tent of Meeting. 32 By presenting the best part of it you will not be guilty in this matter; then you will not defile the holy offerings of the Israelites, and you will not die.' "

MY QUESTION STILL IS...what about Deuteronomy 12 and 14 where it says "22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands."

I still haven't gotten an answer about those scriptures that tell us to EAT our tithe in celebration (rejoicing). Anyone???

 

[macs4us]

Shouldn't this thread be on the Community board? It seems like it has turned into a biblical discussion, which is fine, but not about budgeting.

 

[rpbert1]

Numbers 18:20-32 is one that is used:

20 The LORD said to Aaron, "You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites.

21 "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 22 From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. 23 It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: 'They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.' "

25 The LORD said to Moses, 26 "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD's portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the LORD's portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.'

30 "Say to the Levites: 'When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you as the product of the threshing floor or the winepress. 31 You and your households may eat the rest of it anywhere, for it is your wages for your work at the Tent of Meeting. 32 By presenting the best part of it you will not be guilty in this matter; then you will not defile the holy offerings of the Israelites, and you will not die.' "

MY QUESTION STILL IS...what about Deuteronomy 12 and 14 where it says "22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands."

I still haven't gotten an answer about those scriptures that tell us to EAT our tithe in celebration (rejoicing). Anyone???

i think you will find that this applied to the mosiac law , which ended with Jesus death which opened the way for non jews to come under the new arrangement.
After all if you are going to apply the Mosiac Law, then i take it you will all be getting circumcised and slaughtering the fatted calf for attonement of your sins, and everything else which went with the Mosiac Law

 

[Debbie]

Shouldn't this thread be on the Community board? It seems like it has turned into a biblical discussion, which is fine, but not about budgeting.

Actually, I think that is IS about budgeting. And I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I would never have seen it on the community board.

I'd never heard of a tithe growing up. We gave an offering each week. We still do-to two churches since DH is Roman Catholic and I am not. We have upped our givings, but it is still not a tenth (even when you add on the charities ). We do what we can, and, as we eventually get five kids educated, we'll increase our givings again.

My biggest problem would be anyone-other than God-telling me what I have to give, and, since the bible (especially the OT) was written by man, interpreted by man, I'm not a believer of it being exact. More of an allegory, I guess. Wonderful tales to explain the rules and the happenings. So, is there anything in the New Testament to indicate that one should give 10% to the Church?

Thank you for all of the opinions. I truly love learning about others, their faiths, their beliefs and their budgets.

 

[graygables]

i think you will find that this applied to the mosiac law , which ended with Jesus death which opened the way for non jews to come under the new arrangement.
After all if you are going to apply the Mosiac Law, then i take it you will all be getting circumcised and slaughtering the fatted calf for attonement of your sins, and everything else which went with the Mosiac Law

I understand that, but Jesus was a Jew and the early teachings were still based on that belief system to a certain degree. I was raised a Southern Baptist and I STILL have no idea where they came up with the "10% of gross tithe" under the new covenant. Sometimes it seems that they pick and choose what they want people to hear. How many people actually have *studied* Deuteronomy after all? I only stumbled across it when I was reading the Bible through in a year. When I ask preachers, missionaries, pastors, I get the same look of disgust and awe that I am bringing it up and never any answers.

I think this is great for a budget board since it strongly effects my budget and the choices that I make with the money I'm given stewardship over.

 

[rpbert1]

debbie , you will not find anything about tithingor a percentage in the NT only in the OT, but as i said this applied to the Nation of Israel only i.e the Mosaic Law.
The whole of the Bible was wrote by men under inspiration from God.
there is many things in the Bible that men could not have known i.e the circumcission was to be done when children where 8 days old, and with science today we know this is when the clotting agent in the blood, i think its called the KFactor kicks in any earlier a baby would probably bleed to death.
daniel talked about Belshazzar in his book in the bible and this was for a long time refuted by many people as never having existed , but around the late 1940 s, ruins where discovered pointing to many of the things daniel wrote about including Belshasser.
A story in the Bible you will be familar with is the old lady putting all she had in the box at the temple, not because she had to but because she wanted to,
and i think it sums it up, you dont give 10% or anything else because it says so ,you give what you want because you want to.

 

[rpbert1]

yes graygables ,Jesus was raised a jew , but he did not do any teaching up until he was Baptised, this was the point when holy spirit came on him and he realised he was the Son of God ,according to scripture,and i think you will find that he did not teach the teachings of the jews.

if then, Jesus is a Jew, then God is a Jew , and if this is right then the Jewish religion is the only true religion.
But was it not the Jewish religious leaders and their people that had Jesus killed.
A lot of people read the Bible from cover to cover,and thats good, but rather than reading for the sake of reading look deeper in to it ,and do more study into what you art reading, takes a bit longer but you will get a lot more understanding out of it.
and i do not mean to put any religion down, i treat people, with respect,not because they are my religion or colour, but like i would like to be treated.

 

[macs4us]

Actually, I think that is IS about budgeting.

Again, I think that this started out as a discussion relating to budgeting, but has now turned into a biblical discussion. Sharing how you budget in order to donate and how much makes since, but I don't see how quoting scripture is about budgeting - it's more about justification. I just think once it took that turn it should be on the Community board.

 

[sk!mom]

I'm the OP and I agree that this thread should be moved. I actually suggested closing it a few pages back. I started it because I had read several budgeting threads that mentioned tithing as part of the posters, debts, strategies, and plan. I was interested in knowing more about this. It has turned into an interesting thread but not a budget thread.