Tipping overload?

[whiteness]

And I think I might leave out some snacks and drinks for the delivery drivers.

I was also planning to leave some milk and cookies out this year for Santa. Chocolate chip, maybe?

 

[mrodgers]

I have no problem adjusting the tip to a customized option.

What kind of reader are you talking about? One that is a table one or one that is a smaller hand-held one a server themselves brings out?

There's the tablet thing a lot of chain restaurants have where you pay and also a lot of family restaurants you take the check up to the counter to pay so it's on the card machine at the front counter.

 

[mrodgers]

When the subject of tipping comes up, a common comment is that people should be paid a living wage and there should be no tips. That sounds wonderful, but I just can't see Americans, who have been engrained to tip being able to do it.

Remember when Uber first came out, you weren't supposed to tip and there was no option to leave a tip through the app. So, people who just couldn't fathom not tipping for something like that starting making sure they had cash when they called an Uber. Now, it is frowned upon if you don't tip your Uber driver. If feel like the same thing would happen with restaurants. If restaurants raised their prices by 20% and passed that on to their servers, people would still feel like they needed to tip and people who didn't would be scoffed at, even though there was no longer a need.

I think it could be the end of restaurants being packed. A $14 chicken meal now costs $25 in some places, are people still going to go to a restaurant when they increase that 30% to $32 for baked piece of chicken?

Then again, my daughter does Doordash. It blows my mind that someone will pay $20 to Doordash then give the driver a $15-20 tip to deliver food. And they do this with $50-60 dollar food orders.

 

[mrodgers]

just be aware that you are putting the mailman in precarious position if you 'tip'-

(from the usps site)

All postal employees, including carriers, must comply with the Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Executive Branch. Under these federal regulations, carriers are permitted to accept a gift worth $20 or less from a customer per occasion, such as Christmas. However, cash and cash equivalents, such as checks or gift cards that can be exchanged for cash, must never be accepted in any amount. Furthermore, no employee may accept more than $50 worth of gifts from any one customer in any one calendar year period.


if they take it they are violating and if it's discovered it's their job on the line. it only takes one over zealous or ticked off customer or co-worker who makes a report on it (and they may just be guessing, or overheard a remark someone who lives on a particular route made about tipping), as petty as it may seem it does happen with civil service jobs. it's uncomfortable when someone is trying to gift (or 'tip') you and you are precluded from accepting it to have them continue to insist over and over to you to take it so workers get stuck between a rock and a hard place.

it's awful to have to write someone up on a disciplinary report due to the what was intended to be an act of kindness on another person's part.

My ex is now manager at Lowes. Been there almost 20 years. It's the same with the delivery guys in the Lowes trucks. She says if they accept a tip and it becomes known they are fired immediately and several that she has known have been fired for accepting tips. Yet so many people here insist they tip Lowes delivery drivers.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There's the tablet thing a lot of chain restaurants have where you pay and also a lot of family restaurants you take the check up to the counter to pay so it's on the card machine at the front counter.

Which is why I'm asking. Only way I'd see uncomfortableness for the person knowing the tip is the small hand held one that a sever brings out and takes back. The table one never had a server stick around and the pay at the counter regardless if it's out particular server or not there's no uncomfortableness there or I'm just really used to paying at the counter though it never bothered me.

 

[tzolkin]

I used to work in the restaurant industry and you would not believe how many people were “allergic” to onions. Far and away, it was the most common customer allergy we encountered. Ten times more people were “allergic” to onions than all of the top 8 allergens combined. You’d think onions themselves might be on that top 8 list with how many people claimed allergies to them. (C’mon, just say you don’t like onions, don’t lie about having an allergy.)

This is why I don't think the previous poster's half topping pizza policy is really necessary. If you actually have a life-threatening allergy, you know that you can't get half of your pizza covered with that item without causing some cross-contamination. The people ordering this way either really just don't like the item or have a very mild issue with eating it. I have heard a lot of people say that they will tell a server they are allergic to something that they are really not because the majority of the time when they just request the item be left off, they get ignored.

The problem with so many people saying they are "allergic" when they really just don't like something is that then serious food allergies tend to get ignored as well because the server might just assume that it's a choice/preference rather than a necessity. One example I can think of are people that have a meat allergy (transmitted by ticks). I know three people who have this issue. Most people assume they are vegetarian by choice and slipping a little meat or broth in something that they don't notice is no big deal.

Onions aren't hugely surprising to me as something people claim to be allergic to, because I think a lot of people have discomfort or issues with eating them. There are people who need to eat a low FODMAP diet and onions are a major trigger. I have a friend who has had C. Diff multiple times who gets violently ill every time she eats anything with even a tiny bit of onion in it. She's not actually allergic to onions, but eating them would cause her to be very sick and not be able to work the next day.

So what? Unless there is a disclosed allergy, what difference does it make if some of the cheese ends up on the other side? What if the person has someone in their group they just doesn't like cheese? Most people who order half/half pizza's know there is a chance that a stray item will end up on the other side. Heck, I have ordered pizza that had a stray mushroom or olive on it when I had only ordered pepperoni.

Yeah, that one seemed bizarre to me. Just put cheese on half the pizza. The customer is aware that a little bit might melt or be dragged by the cutter to the other side, but they will at least get half a pizza with less/almost no cheese.

Over the last year, a Baconator medium meal at Wendy's has gone from $9 to $13. That's a 44% increase in a year.

But, I don't think the higher menu price is just a direct result of paying employees a higher wage because the prices have also gone up just as much in places where the employees are still getting paid $10/hr or less.

Are you seeing 30% for non-fine dining?

I see 30% suggested everywhere now so definitely not just fine dining-- coffee shops, burger/pizza restaurants, food trucks, bars, etc. The most common pre-set amounts I see are 20, 25, 30%. Some will list off amounts like 24, 28, 32%. Of course, you can pick the "custom" option, but the suggestions definitely make it appear like 20% is the minimum expected. The lowest I have seen in probably several years is 18%.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I see 30% suggested everywhere now so definitely not just fine dining-- coffee shops, burger/pizza restaurants, food trucks, bars, etc. The most common pre-set amounts I see are 20, 25, 30%. Some will list off amounts like 24, 28, 32%. Of course, you can pick the "custom" option, but the suggestions definitely make it appear like 20% is the minimum expected. The lowest I have seen in probably several years is 18%.

That's disappointing.

20% is one thing but not 30% for non-fine dining. I'll have to pay attention more to see if that's the case in my direct area.

 

[mrodgers]

I see 30% suggested everywhere now so definitely not just fine dining-- coffee shops, burger/pizza restaurants, food trucks, bars, etc. The most common pre-set amounts I see are 20, 25, 30%. Some will list off amounts like 24, 28, 32%. Of course, you can pick the "custom" option, but the suggestions definitely make it appear like 20% is the minimum expected. The lowest I have seen in probably several years is 18%.

I never see 18% as a selection on the card machine any more. Now I typically see 20, 22, and 25 or starting at 22 with 25 and 28%.

 

[Nora03]

I haven’t read all 15 pages, but chiming in now. I give 20% tip in restaurants since the pandemic. But I agree it is all going too far. I went to a local florist on Monday and ordered an arrangement to be sent to a friend for her birthday. It was $100 including tax and delivery. They had a spot to give a tip, starting at 20%. I chose “no tip”. Then I thought I should have tipped the driver, but saw that the delivery charge was $14. So don’t regret not tipping.

 

[tvguy]

My ex is now manager at Lowes. Been there almost 20 years. It's the same with the delivery guys in the Lowes trucks. She says if they accept a tip and it becomes known they are fired immediately and several that she has known have been fired for accepting tips. Yet so many people here insist they tip Lowes delivery drivers.

My wife's nephew manages a Lowes and accepting a tip was a firing offense when they had their employees doing deliveries.
They contract deliveries out to independent crews and it is in their agreement that if they get caught accepting a tip, they are no longer a Lowe's contractor.

 

[tvguy]

Then again, my daughter does Doordash. It blows my mind that someone will pay $20 to Doordash then give the driver a $15-20 tip to deliver food. And they do this with $50-60 dollar food orders.

My neighbor and his wife work from home. Like clockwork there is a Doordash guy at their house a noon everyday during the week with a Taco Bell bag, or a McDonalds bag etc or a grocery store delivery. Other than to take their 3 year old to daycare, I don't think they leave the house.

 

[dez1978]

OK, never having actually worked in a job that can collect tips, I just assumed that it sucked as much as my experience working on commission. Which I absolutely hated for so many reasons.

So, people that work for tips do it because they make more money than if they were paid a fair salary and benefits? That does put an interesting spin on things, but it still doesn't change my mind visa-vis tipping wait staff versus them simply being paid fairly, like every worker should be paid fairly.

Notice, I keep emphasizing "fair salary and benefits", here? That works both ways. There shouldn't be any financial advantage to guilting and shaming people into paying a percentage of their total tab as tips, either. Everyone is entitled to a fair wage and benefits, but nobody is entitled to be paid disproportionally more than someone else equally skilled and essential, that is working just as hard and conscientiously.

If Disney waiters have chosen to work for tips because are hoping they can make more money than the other Cast Members that are equally magical and essential to my experience in the parks...well, that's very clever and enterprising of them, but I don't have to think it is fair or support their efforts in that regard. I certainly don't think they have the right to ask for increasingly larger percentages of my total spend in their eating establishment. If 10% wasn't enough for them to earn a fair wage, then go back to earning a salary like everyone else rather than squeezing me for more.

If being a tipped employee is a choice they make because they want to earn more than they otherwise reasonably could, then don't plead poverty and equity as a justification for demanding a higher percentage.

I admit, this comes off as harsh. But up until now I honestly felt sorry for people that worked for tips. It's really eye opening to learn that they chose this arrangement because it is more lucrative.

And the idea of not paying taxes on a portion of that income to further enrich yourself...well, being able to cheat on your taxes is not a very good goal and not something that we should be condoning, regardless how much some folks hate paying them.

I am not sure what Disney pays but the Fla tipped employee min wage is $7.98/hr. Now at a table service the low end per person is $30 so the check avg for 2 is 60-70. Assuming on the low end, that every table tips just 15%, each table of 2 is a $9 tip. I'd guess each server has a section of at least 4 tables. If the table turnover is say 2 hours, then they'd have 4 tables every 2 hours for $34 in tips. Add the $8/hour wage, and thats $52 every 2 hours or $26/hr. I'd guess those figures are probably low, since most table service meals are more than $30 and several tables would be 3 or more people. But $26/hr is well above min wage and more than most hourly employees make at Disney.

Or instead of telling people to get different jobs if a 10% tip isn't enough, maybe don't go out to eat so much if thats too much for you to tip. Everything you've written here indicates that your feelings about tipping is about you, not the servers benefit.

What you're attempting to portray is like a false narrative. The conversation inevitably goes to is "pay a living wage" in lieu of tips because people think about that as an either/or situation. In reality, IMO, what probably should really should be happening is a pay raise with tips still able to be collected.

Commission typically gets a higher pay rate to begin with. Are there that many commission-based jobs for a starting pay of $2.13 like a tipped position is in my state? Yes in my state they have to pay the difference to make up to Federal minimum wage depending on if the employee qualifies for it but the point is their starting pay is very low. When I worked at JCP over 17 years ago the jewelry employees started out at a higher rate than we did and they got commissions but their employment counted on that in terms of performance much like my employment counted on how many CC applications I could sign up in terms of my performance.

For so many decades we've just treated tipped positions in which there hasn't really been a realistic adjustment in what they start at. Some states have more generous pay than others but the societal mentality, which I might add you exemplify well, is one of which there's less push for more nuanced understanding. People just sorta misplace their anger at feeling like they have to tip at a restaurant assuming that with no tips a simple pay raise would make up the difference for the lower pay they have been getting.

Hey, who'd have ever thought we'd agree on something lol. Yes, tipped employees should make more than $2.13 AND be tipped. But in no way would taking away tipping benefit the servers.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My ex is now manager at Lowes. Been there almost 20 years. It's the same with the delivery guys in the Lowes trucks. She says if they accept a tip and it becomes known they are fired immediately and several that she has known have been fired for accepting tips. Yet so many people here insist they tip Lowes delivery drivers.

Traditionally I enjoyed tipping delivery people for household things because I think it’s hard work carrying in an appliance or whatever. Not Lowe’s specifically, but they always seem happy to accept.

My neighbor and his wife work from home. Like clockwork there is a Doordash guy at their house a noon everyday during the week with a Taco Bell bag, or a McDonalds bag etc or a grocery store delivery. Other than to take their 3 year old to daycare, I don't think they leave the house.

Can they walk?

 

[sam_gordon]

Can they walk?

Doesn't mean the restaurant is within walking distance.

 

[dez1978]

If restaurants raised their prices by 20% and passed that on to their servers, people would still feel like they needed to tip and people who didn't would be scoffed at, even though there was no longer a need.

Except if they raise prices 20%. that full 20% isn't available to "pass" to the servers. The employer has to pay sales tax on that 20% and then payroll tax on whatever amount the employee would be paid. So they'd have to raise more like 33% for the employee to get the equivalent of the current 20% tip. So now your $30 meal now costs $39 and the server still only gets the $6 you'd have given as a 20% tip on a $30 meal.

 

[tvguy]

Can they walk?

Not sure. His gym went belly up during the pandemic and he set up a home gym in his garage and he works out daily with the door open, so at least he does some physical activity while watching the 60 inch TV he has mounted in the garage. But now that you mention it, I have never seen them walk which stands out in a neighborhood where many of us walk on a daily basis. And we are 2 blocks from the school district administration building, and many of the people who work there walk in our neighborhood on their breaks.

 

[focusondisney]

That's disappointing.

20% is one thing but not 30% for non-fine dining. I'll have to pay attention more to see if that's the case in my direct area.

I’m not ever doing 30%, fine dining or not. That’s just outrageous IMO.

 

[tzolkin]

Doesn't mean the restaurant is within walking distance.

I thought Pea-n-Me meant it as a joke about being unhealthy because they are eating fast food every single day, not that the restaurants are within walking distance.

Traditionally I enjoyed tipping delivery people for household things because I think it’s hard work carrying in an appliance or whatever. Not Lowe’s specifically, but they always seem happy to accept.

Not the same thing as appliance delivery, but I know the policy at our local grocery store (because my kids have worked there) is to tell the customer something along the lines of "there's no need to tip" when a tip is offered, but if the person insists or offers again they are supposed to take it. I think because it's considered more rude to argue with the customer by trying to refuse the tip than to just accept it and thank them.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I’m not ever doing 30%, fine dining or not. That’s just outrageous IMO.

Agreed. I don't go to fancier restaurants but I still see a lot of places near me asking for 30%. I understand that servers rely on tips but I really do miss living in Europe where tipping didn't exist.

 

[mco65]

I don't know if its out of control. Its a bit much, but as long as it remains voluntary, i am ok with it. They can ask for 100%, doesn't mean they will get it.

I typically tip 20% at a sit down just because the math is easy for me. I might tip 10% at a counter service.... it really depends on the engagement of the counter employee...