Tipping overload?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Unfortunately it’s unlikely to happen in a restaurant. I don’t patronize “Fine Dining” establishments, more so that I wouldn’t feel comfortable there rather than because of prices or higher expected tips.

I don’t like being fussed over and I don’t want to unintentionally commit a faux pas.

I might find a perfect opportunity elsewhere. I’ll try flying Spirit in the future.

Great you got my hopes up only to have them dashed! I'm not even sure if people bat an eye these days over Spirit debacles but slow news day quite possible

 

[mrodgers]

Without all your nastiness in your comment understand I was discussing in terms of what is the norm to tip. If you're now tipping more than what you used to normally tip at fine dining with typically having an experience that amounts to more than my local bar and grill I'd be tipping more, food being more expensive (not always the case in our experience) isn't the tipping point no pun intended.

Pulling out your chair then scooting it back, placing your dinner napkin on your lap (often the host though does this), drink recommendations typically considering more of the ingredients ,yeah I can get beer recommendations at a brewpub on the menu but not quite the same. Dress code and ambience may be needed to take note. In one of the Vegas places for example we went to elegant casual attire was required (collared shirts for men no sports apparel or shorts even in the heat (figured you'd like that comment ) and no children under 5 allowed strictly adhered to. The dessert are often carefully plated with an artisan style. Mine had a small amount of edible gold on it at that Vegas place (though that didn't matter to me). The plating though was done in a very clean way and while my local bar and grill can have good dessert it's usually expensive for the quality and slapped on there. At that place the utensils were switched out between our bread service (or if you had gotten apps or a salad) and entree service and again for dessert. Nothing was left to clutter up the table. The several other higher end places we've been too at home or on vacation generally follow the stuff above though more formal dress code (usually an implied dress up a bit more) and no children not necessarily. The place in Vegas wasn't even as high as you can get. One of the places no children period and attire is elegant as in more ball-like.

Generally both types of places people are doing the job assigned to them but we find a tad more on the servers part than they have to for a base tip at a place like that in higher end. And tipping just 20% to account for all the other stuff when I'm being more and more expected to tip for just the bar and grill means I'd be adjusting.

You seem to see that and respond to me all the time. I merely listed what a restaurant server's job is and then asked what else would they do in a fine dining restaurant. Thank you for answering with the chair and napkin thing, that answers what I asked.

Other than that, the rest you wrote up is merely what the restaurant should be doing no matter what the type. Being neat and tidy. I see all that as being part of the job, not going above and beyond the job.

 

[mrodgers]

I found the person crowding my space with his hand behind my chair at a high top during the height of covid to be far creepier and invading of my personal space. While I understand the warmth and friendliness some servers exhibit at some more casual places I find plopping down next to me or crowding the table to chit chat to be more off-putting though I admit if we're with my mother-in-law she encourages that by getting to know all these servers (who to be frank don't always think as highly of her as she thinks they do).

My daughter loves Olive Garden. So she gets picked up and about every 3 weeks we stop at a restaurant vs. somewhere quick. Our waiter at Olive Garden was a fine gentleman, very pleasant. Except he did just that. Hung out and started chit chatting with us eventually pulling over a chair and sitting down. I was very very happy of his 40 year anniversary that day and my heart tugged a bit for the troubles his wife was having, but really I haven't seen my daughter all week, I would have rather visited with her and enjoy my meal with her than visit with the waiter while I ate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You seem to see that and respond to me all the time.

Well in fairness you tend to talk about it in such bitterness all the time on a wide variety of threads I couldn't help but playfully interjecting that (and it was meant in playfulness). FWIW it was 110 degrees out when we ate at that restaurant although very low humidity and at night vs the day. But just saying that kind of place doesn't account for the conditions when considering dress code. We weren't uncomfortable though. It was an indoor/outdoor space with mostly open air style and we were completely outdoors.

the rest you wrote up is merely what the restaurant should be doing no matter what the type. Being neat and tidy. I see all that as being part of the job, not going above and beyond the job.

That's totally your impression of which I'm sure others share as well. We tend to find a difference. I am def. one of those people that tends to see people just doing their job but I think everyone at one point or another finds some things that are just more than that. Disinterested servers appear everywhere so it's not just saying you'll give more by nature of a higher end place just that we tend to find that's the case. When I got to our local steakhouse where a 7oz filet mignon is $44 or a 9oz is $54 I do not get a napkin on my lap or chair pulled out. On the other hand we did at the Vegas place where the delicious chicken was $44 (to be fair the comparison is a 9oz filet mignon is $74) and the dessert was $22 although isn't this pretty:




They were far above the pumpkin cheesecake for almost $10 we had at the local steakhouse that was a small slice although the whipping cream on the side did taste freshly made so I'll give them that.

 

[whiteness]

Well at least you admit that you don't really care how paying a set wage vs tips affects the tipped employees. As long as everyone pays more taxes, because that is what is really important. Not the actual employees. Got it. Higher taxes good, employees having more money bad...

Is that literally all you understood from what I wrote? I guess I really am just wasting my time, here.

 

[whiteness]

Perfect! So pointless discussion would mean no more discussing from you. Got it

I agree! But yet, won't we still keep pointlessly responding to each other's posts, regardless?

 

[mjkacmom]

You seem to see that and respond to me all the time. I merely listed what a restaurant server's job is and then asked what else would they do in a fine dining restaurant. Thank you for answering with the chair and napkin thing, that answers what I asked.

Other than that, the rest you wrote up is merely what the restaurant should be doing no matter what the type. Being neat and tidy. I see all that as being part of the job, not going above and beyond the job.

A server at a Michelin star restaurant is going to have much better training than a server at Applebees. If I tried to get a job there I would not be hired, I don’t have the hours of training and experience.

 

[HashberryOTG]

I didn't feel it is justified or necessary, and nothing that I've read up to this point has convinced me otherwise. It is obvious (to me) that people will continue to keep talking past each other, and few opinions will be shifted. So it is a pointless discussion.

If anyone thinks the purpose of a conversation is to primarily convince everyone yours is the only way of thinking, they're mistaken. Just because I may disagree with you (I don't recall who posted what, so this is the global "you"), doesn't mean you're wrong. It means you think differently than me. Hopefully you've made some points I never considered. Maybe this is why everyone now-a-days thinks everything is a personal slight?

(for humor only, and to the person I replied to above, I'm not directing this at you) I believe I am now supposed to rant and rave about the audacity of someone daring to have a different opinion, and how personally insulting it is that they don't agree with me. Trying to keep up with the times a little...

PS: I've decided audacity is my word of the day, except it appears to have been extended to year, and probably at least 2.

 

[whiteness]

A server at a Michelin star restaurant is going to have much better training than a server at Applebees. If I tried to get a job there I would not be hired, I don’t have the hours of training and experience.

And they should get paid a higher salary. I assume that the chef at the Michelin star restaurant also has a higher salary than the cook at Applebees. Nobody here has a problem with higher pay for higher skills. That is a universal given. But most people get fairly compensated for their skills, training and job effort without relying on tips. So that is proof that it is possible.

 

[Moliphino]

A server at a Michelin star restaurant is going to have much better training than a server at Applebees. If I tried to get a job there I would not be hired, I don’t have the hours of training and experience.

They probably aren't making minimum wage, either.

 

[dez1978]

Is that literally all you understood from what I wrote? I guess I really am just wasting my time, here.

That was literally what your post was about. Widen the tax base blah blah, More taxes are good for everyone etc etc. You admit you have never worked in a tipped position or have experince with it, yet you refuse to consider the fact that what you propose hurts those people. Then act as if you are the right one and everyone else who refuses to conceed to your opinion, talking to them is a waste of time. You care about what is good for you. Not what is good for the employee or the business who employ them. Hello pot, meet kettle.

If anyone thinks the purpose of a conversation is to primarily convince everyone yours is the only way of thinking, they're mistaken. Just because I may disagree with you (I don't recall who posted what, so this is the global "you"), doesn't mean you're wrong. It means you think differently than me. Hopefully you've made some points I never considered. Maybe this is why everyone now-a-days thinks everything is a personal slight?

This. All of this. My best friend and I are just so opposite in our beliefs that sometimes I wonder how we are friends lol. But when we actually bother to listen to each other, we find that we both want essentially the same things, we just differ on how to get there. Like I agree, servers should be paid more, we all agree on that. We just don't agree on how to get there. Sometimes my comments are meant to bring up things people wouldn't normally consider. Sometimes its helpful to know why someone has the opinion they do. But I don't expect anything I say will make anyone agree that I am right and they are wrong. Admittedly I feel pretty strongly about this subject and am not likely to change my mind, but thats becasue I served and bartended for years, and DH runs a restaraunt, so I am very aware of how most tipped employees feel about it and how it would affect the business and the customers.

 

[whiteness]

If anyone thinks the purpose of a conversation is to primarily convince everyone yours is the only way of thinking, they're mistaken.

I agree with you.

Now, rather than trying to convince anyone, I can just speak to what I, personally, will do:

From now on, I am personally going to aim to tip just enough to pay my portion to make up the difference between whatever the restaurant pays them and a "fair wage." The cost of my meal will no longer be a factor in that.

I will assume that the other tables in their area will be doing the same, and that they are making something from the restaurant as well, and from that, I will estimate how much I should give them so they earn a fair wage. And that's it.

My goal is to be revenue neutral: they should neither benefit no lose from working for tips. Which I, personally, feel is fair. What other people chose to do is none of my business. If others continue to tip more than that, then fine. It neither helps nor hurts me.

 

[mjkacmom]

And they should get paid a higher salary. I assume that the chef at the Michelin star restaurant also has a higher salary than the cook at Applebees. Nobody here has a problem with higher pay for higher skills. That is a universal given. But most people get fairly compensated for their skills, training and job effort without relying on tips. So that is proof that it is possible.

But servers are a tipped position. Restaurants know their profit margins, whether you pay 20% more for your food vs. 20% tip, it’s coming from your pocket, not from the business owners.

 

[whiteness]

yet you refuse to consider the fact that what you propose hurts those people.

If by "hurts", you mean they will earn less money and pay more taxes then, yes, I agree. They will. I think that implication was obvious. And I also think that is fair. They shouldn't expect to have their taxes subsidized nor should they expect to earn more than similarly skilled and hard working people. I don't think that class of employee should have that expectation, so I oppose an arrangement that allows them to enjoy those benefits while others cannot. That is fair and equitable, in my opinion.

Nothing that I've seen or heard in my life (and certainly not here) justifies special treatment for people with that specific job. It should be possible to compensate them in the same way as other employees. Although they might earn less money if they were, just because some class of employee happens to earn less money is not, on it's face, "unfair." Different categories of jobs shift in their compensation all the time. People that do those jobs love it when they earn more and hate it when they earn less. But that doesn't make it more or less "fair." It's just a fact.