Three siblings killed getting on school bus

[zoo2tycoon]

https://cbs4indy.com/2018/10/31/unc...y-complained-to-school-about-unsafe-bus-stop/

This makes this even more tragic! Family had warned school bus stop was dangerous.

 

[katie01]

I haven't stopped thinking of this case since yesterday. Life isn't fair and tragedies happen all the time, but a family losing three of their kids (all of them?) in one day, in one "accident" that likely could have been prevented, just seems to violate every law of righteousness or fairness or....anything I can make any sense out of.

Granted, not all the facts are out yet, but I completely understand where everyone's anger is coming from, because it IS a fact that all over the US, every single day, there are people passing busses with stop arms out, willfully and consciously choosing to speed and violate laws that are put into place to keep kids safe, for stupid reasons...they are late to work, they are bored waiting an extra two minutes, whatever. Whether that was the case with this driver or not, I don't know, but I wish everyone who has heard this story will learn from it, and for the love of God, slow down and follow the rules of the road. Almost every day I am tailgated aggressively on my way to taking my kids to school, and I'm not driving under the speed limit or having slow reaction times, I'm driving according to the law in school zones and elsewhere. And just yesterday after the tragic event in Indiana, I saw a local school bus driver post that yesterday ALONE, he had four people pass his bus when he had the stop arm out and kids were loading and unloading, and one of those other drivers had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting one of the kids.

So in that respect, I think we are probably all wanting to see justice done for this poor family who lost their kids, and for an example to be set for the rest of the world that killing three kids isn't just an "oopsie" that gets a slap on the wrist. At the same time, I heard this woman has kids of her own, had a job working with kids, and so it doesn't make sense that she would deliberately set out to kill children, and for that I pity her, but again, the law needs to be served.

I just read a book about a man who committed a crime and how greatly his innocent family suffered when the people in the town used their anger at him towards sending hate mail, hate calls, egging the house, and ostracizing the wife and kids of the man who committed the crime. The quote on the front cover was, "A compelling exploration of the way a crime implicates all of us". It was eye opening and certainly made me feel empathy towards anyone going through something like this...in the case yesterday I mean the husband and kids of the woman who caused the accident. I can only imagine their suffering as well. There are so many families who are going to grieve and feel pain forever because of this, and my heart hurts for every one of them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

https://cbs4indy.com/2018/10/31/unc...y-complained-to-school-about-unsafe-bus-stop/

This makes this even more tragic! Family had warned school bus stop was dangerous.

I take this as a different thing honestly.

I see their points which the article states is: "He says the family previously reached out to school officials to say it’s not safe for kids to cross the highway, especially at the time of the morning when it’s still dark. The school’s been warned. This is an issue. We have said this before. We’ve made complaints, not just them other parents. It’s not safe to walk a child across a highway, especially at that time because everybody’s going to work at that time"

BUT at the same time look at the comments in this thread. The overwhelming viewpoint is the driver was the one responsible. Interestingly also in contrast to the uncle's viewpoint in which he sees the dark as an issue where posters, at least from what I intepreted which could be wrong, the dark wasn't as big of an issue and the lights for the school bus stopping should have been clearly seen (as in the sun wasn't rising causing possible blindness, etc).

Sorta sounds like the uncle's viewpoint is that it was only a matter of time that something happened due to the conditions without respect to the driver's attentiveness or lack there of.

 

[Snowflakey]

You're welcome to feel as justified in anger toward the driver as you'd like. You're welcome to think I'm looking for a defense of why she did it, though I'd be interested for you to find a quote from me where I said it was justified, OK or acceptable. In fact, I said she deserved to be charged. However, my point is that as is often the case, there seems to be a mob with pitchforks who want to burn the driver at the stake. I'm not walking with that mob, at least not at this point. Unless there's evidence she acted with pure malice and intent, it was an accident. An absolutely horrific one, but an accident no less. Doesn't excuse what she did (whatever it was, which we don't know), doesn't make it OK, none of that. The results of her actions were beyond disastrous...but she made a mistake (at least that's what it appears). You're absolutely right, we all have a responsibility behind the wheel and it needs to be taken seriously. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who were permanently injured, scared or dead because of a momentary lack of responsibility. And many of the people who caused those accidents were otherwise "good" people who made make a really bad decision. Many of them have a squeaky clean driving record, not even so much as a jaywalking ticket. But they make a bad judgment that ends very badly. Personally, I don't necessarily think that makes them bad people. I'm not "defending" her mistake or justifying it, but based on what we know so far it was a horrible accident. Her life is going to be ruined too. It's a tragedy for all involved.

Are you a claim rep?

 

[Klayfish]

How fast she was going does not matter. What matters is that she was going, period.

You're taking my quote out of context. I was referring to whether it's gross/wanton negligence. Yes, there is no question she was moving when she shouldn't have been. That's an act of negligence. But while it may not matter to you, speed will very much play a role in how this proceeds forward.

Are you a claim rep?

I'm in claim leadership (not trying to sound snobby, just answering the question)

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

The driver is primarily responsible. But I understand the frustration regarding the bus pickup. I've sat at many a school board meeting over the years and every year some parents come with very legitimate concerns regarding unsafe bus stops. Nothing ever gets done. It appears to be in the hands of not so much the schools as it does the bus company in my area.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

https://cbs4indy.com/2018/10/31/unc...y-complained-to-school-about-unsafe-bus-stop/

This makes this even more tragic! Family had warned school bus stop was dangerous.

This whole story has made me feel ill, but this really makes me want to vomit. I had a similar situation when my twins were little and forced to cross a street alone on their way to and from school, where cars were also going about 50 mph. My concerns fell on deaf ears for two years with people involved in decision making. Until one day when my DH had gone to meet them at the crossing and he heard the sickening squeal of the brakes and saw our son nearly tagged as he was crossing said street. I'd never heard DH as upset - before or since. Fortunately a new administrator had come on board since our last complaint, and he apologized and made things right in one afternoon. The really frustrating thing was that a bus came by our street that only had about eight or ten kids on it, but my kids (and a handful of other kids in the neigborhood) weren't allowed to get on it because it was only for K and Grade 1 kids despite the dire circumstances involved. This new (at the time) administrator made it so that all kids (on the two streets often without crossing guards) could get on that bus, thus avoiding having to cross the street alone in the area where cars were speeding, quite a ways away from the school. I understand the fear these people had that something might happen and the frustration of nobody listening.

 

[Hikergirl]

I take this as a different thing honestly.

I see their points which the article states is: "He says the family previously reached out to school officials to say it’s not safe for kids to cross the highway, especially at the time of the morning when it’s still dark. The school’s been warned. This is an issue. We have said this before. We’ve made complaints, not just them other parents. It’s not safe to walk a child across a highway, especially at that time because everybody’s going to work at that time"

BUT at the same time look at the comments in this thread. The overwhelming viewpoint is the driver was the one responsible. Interestingly also in contrast to the uncle's viewpoint in which he sees the dark as an issue where posters, at least from what I intepreted which could be wrong, the dark wasn't as big of an issue and the lights for the school bus stopping should have been clearly seen (as in the sun wasn't rising causing possible blindness, etc).

Sorta sounds like the uncle's viewpoint is that it was only a matter of time that something happened due to the conditions without respect to the driver's attentiveness or lack there of.

That is because she is responsible.

The earliest my kids have gotten on the school bus was 6:15AM and as you can imagine at certain times of year, dark as night. We have no street lights in our subdivision either. I can tell you that the flashing lights of the school bus literally lit up the entire street, there is no way to miss them. No way, and the fact that it is dark makes them stand out even more. As a pp said they go from yellow and then red, it isn't like they come on the instant the kids are crossing.
Even if it was just a matter of time before something happened, that woman is still 100% responsible for killing those kids.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is because she is responsible.

The earliest my kids have gotten on the school bus was 6:15AM and as you can imagine at certain times of year, dark as night. We have no street lights in our subdivision either. I can tell you that the flashing lights of the school bus literally lit up the entire street, there is no way to miss them. No way, and the fact that it is dark makes them stand out even more. As a pp said they go from yellow and then red, it isn't like they come on the instant the kids are crossing.
Even if it was just a matter of time before something happened, that woman is still 100% responsible for killing those kids.

Look I was commenting on the article posted and the uncle of the children's quote and his viewpoint in comparison to the comments on this thread. Perhaps you missed my earlier comment in the thread regarding consequences of actions..

 

[Hikergirl]

Look I was commenting on the article posted and the uncle of the children's quote and his viewpoint in comparison to the comments on this thread. Perhaps you missed my earlier comment in the thread regarding consequences of actions..

And I'm just commenting on the part of your post that I bolded, which was about the comments in this thread. Building off of that I shared an opinion on why I think she was responsible. That is the nature of a discussion board, is it not?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And I'm just commenting on the part of your post that I bolded, which was about the comments in this thread.

And I would have no issues with that except it sounded like you were putting words in my mouth by saying "That is because she is responsible". I didn't say she wasn't responsible I actually said quite the opposite earlier on in the thread.

 

[Colleen27]

They start yellow lights on bus AT LEAST 300 ft from the stop, then when stopped the stop arm gets extended and the RED lights come on.

No, not the strobe lights, there are lights on each side, top of bus, BIG lights, flash yellow when bus is getting ready to stop, and then red when stop arm is extended. Here, there are red lights on the stop arm flashing too. Don't know how you could miss them at that time of morning when someone stated that the sun was not up yet.

I live on a state highway here, have seen people blow through the lights on a stopped bus. $500 dollar fine here. Wish they would enforce that more. My neighbor kids almost got hit on the highway by someone blowing the stop arm, oldest pulled the youngest out the way. Thank god she was a quick thinker and paying attention to the traffic.

That's what gets me about all the "she might only have been distracted for a second". "bad things can happen in the blink of an eye" logic. We live in a semi-rural district. On the country roads, those yellow lights go on quite some distance from the stop, I'd guess 15-30 seconds. And they carry *forever* on a dark morning. If I'm not careful about how I close my bedroom curtains, the flashing lights on the special ed bus that comes down our street around 6:15 wake me up. And those are just the yellows - buy the time the stop lights go on, the bus is well past our house.

Our police set up "traps" to watch for violators on two 55 mph country roads around here every so often. Usually once at the start of the school year, as a reminder to drivers to pay attention because kids are back in school, and then a couple of times throughout the year. And the county sheriff will sometimes send out a press release about it to amplify the message even further. But I still hear from bus drivers that people blow through the stop all the time.

 

[GreatLakes]

If it is dark and the roads are winding with high speed limits that is more reason to drive carefully and assume around every bend there is a stopped school bus. If the speed limit is 55 you go under it, not "only a little over it" in those conditions.

 

[Snowflakey]

I'm in claim leadership (not trying to sound snobby, just answering the question)

I figured. You speak just like a claims person. (coming from one who had 26 years experience)

 

[luvsJack]

I don't know a thing about the area this happened in, but I am sure everyone would love for their bus routes never require kids to cross the road to get on the bus. But its simply not logical. We live on a 7 or 8 mile stretch of road. Houses are fairly far apart except here and there where there may be a cluster of 2 or 3 and they are on both sides of the road. There would have to be two buses going the same route in opposite directions for no child to have to cross the street. Its a problem, for sure, but from the school districts pov an expensive fix. The other option is to have bus stops where all the kids on the road get on at a central location. Ooohh boy! I can hear the parents now! Buses, routes, drives and parents can be a nightmare for school administrators.

This woman is responsible for what happened, obviously the law feels she is or she wouldn't have been charged. BUT that doesn't mean there isn't a reason it happened. Many people are in prison for bad decisions made in the blink of an eye. Yes those lights on a bus can be bright IN SOME PLACES. The ones here are not. I noticed when we were driving in North Alabama, the lights on the buses were very bright but here, its the white blinking light on top that catches your eye.

I would also say the speed limit may have been too fast for that road but should the speed limit always reflect that children get on and off the bus on that road? The speed limit is set for the speed one can safely travel, it doesn't take into account deer crossing, children playing or bus routes. .

The simple fact is no knows what happened. You don't know how fast she was going, you don't know if she was on her phone, you don't know if she decided to go around the bus or for whatever reason swerved and went around it. The law doesn't know so there is no way for anyone here to know.

 

[mumto3girls]

A horrible, tragic situation for all involved. I realize the driver was most likely outrageously negligent, but I still have sympathy for her. I doubt she intended to take innocent lives that morning. She will relive that accident for the rest of her very young life. And I can’t imagine how those parents must be feeling.

I am surprised by how many people say how common it is for driver’s to blow by the buses with the lights flashing and the arm down. I have rarely seen that happen and I am a middle aged woman who is frequently out and about during bus runs. And for years stood at bus stops with my own kids. I wonder if it is more strictly enforced here? Or possibly more of an issue on rural roads (I am very much in the suburbs)? Occasionally I will see someone going a bit fast in a flashing school zone (speed limit is 15 when flashing here) but even then they slow down, just not to 15.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

I just read a book about a man who committed a crime and how greatly his innocent family suffered when the people in the town used their anger at him towards sending hate mail, hate calls, egging the house, and ostracizing the wife and kids of the man who committed the crime. The quote on the front cover was, "A compelling exploration of the way a crime implicates all of us". It was eye opening and certainly made me feel empathy towards anyone going through something like this...in the case yesterday I mean the husband and kids of the woman who caused the accident. I can only imagine their suffering as well. There are so many families who are going to grieve and feel pain forever because of this, and my heart hurts for every one of them.

I'm more concerned with the well-being of the bus driver and any kids who were already on the bus and may have witnessed this. Granted her family shouldn't be receiving hate mail or death threats, but their interests are very low priority.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm more concerned with the well-being of the bus driver and any kids who were already on the bus and may have witnessed this. Granted her family shouldn't be receiving hate mail or death threats, but their interests are very low priority.

Her kids are innocent and will have their mother in prison, they have my sympathy.

 

[Hikergirl]

And I would have no issues with that except it sounded like you were putting words in my mouth by saying "That is because she is responsible". I didn't say she wasn't responsible I actually said quite the opposite earlier on in the thread.

Then you misunderstood. You made a statement about the comments on this thread, which would include mine.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was stating why the overwhelming viewpoint here in this thread, specifically my own, were seeing her as the one responsible.

 

[Hikergirl]

A horrible, tragic situation for all involved. I realize the driver was most likely outrageously negligent, but I still have sympathy for her. I doubt she intended to take innocent lives that morning. She will relive that accident for the rest of her very young life. And I can’t imagine how those parents must be feeling.

I am surprised by how many people say how common it is for driver’s to blow by the buses with the lights flashing and the arm down. I have rarely seen that happen and I am a middle aged woman who is frequently out and about during bus runs. And for years stood at bus stops with my own kids. I wonder if it is more strictly enforced here? Or possibly more of an issue on rural roads (I am very much in the suburbs)? Occasionally I will see someone going a bit fast in a flashing school zone (speed limit is 15 when flashing here) but even then they slow down, just not to 15.

I'm in the suburbs and have seen it a few times. My SIL is a bus driver in the suburbs and she says it happens pretty frequently.
I've seen videos online of it happening and it is frightening just how close some of those kids were to getting hit.