Three siblings killed getting on school bus

[ronandannette]

Just speculating, but I would think a defense lawyer would indeed encourage some sort of plea. A trial would not go well for her imo. A jury would be justifiably heart-broken hearing the pain of the family members left to deal with this unimaginable loss.

Crazy of me, I know, but I was thinking more along the lines of pleading guilty to the actual charges and accepting the consequences - without legal wrangling or looking for loopholes to reduce the negative impact on herself. It would be the decent thing, the only decent thing she could do for those families.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's a very easy knee jerk reaction...an a common one. Let me ask you this...have you ever made a mistake behind the wheel? Ever? Had a single moment of inattention? Ever? If you're being honest, the answer is yes.

Of course. I mean, yes. However, if my inattention resulted in injury, damage, or a crime, I would expect to be consider responsible, the perpetrator, whatever.

Thanks. I just wanted to rule that out. Other possibilities not the the driver's control... was the bus around a curve or over a hill?

The road curves, but it doesn't appear there are any blind curves or sharp turns near the bus - which I assume had not been moved at all

 

[bushdianee]

Looking at pictures of the damage done to the truck my guess is she was going pretty fast. I wouldn’t think little kids could create that much damage. I’ve seen pictures of vehicles that have hit deer with far less damage. My heart breaks for the family.

 

[ronandannette]

I've just gone back to read the original article in the link, which has been updated this evening. It strikes me as absolutely bizarre that this woman went to work after such an horrific incident. Seriously - she went to work? That's apparently where she was apprehended. Come to think of it, why would she have been allowed to leave the scene and not taken into custody in the first place?

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I've just gone back to read the original article in the link, which has been updated this evening. It strikes me as absolutely bizarre that this woman went to work after such an horrific incident. Seriously - she went to work? That's apparently where she was apprehended. Come to think of it, why would she have been allowed to leave the scene and not taken into custody in the first place?

A poster mentioned upthread that she works at the church she goes to, and so she may or may not have actually been working, but could have been just speaking with her pastor, getting spiritual advice, etc.

It does seem strange that they wouldn't have just immediately taken her in though. Maybe they did, but since the investigation was still taking place and charges hadn't yet been filed, they let her leave.

 

[Klayfish]

No the anger is not misguided, not one little tiny bit of it. The woman plowed down 4 children and killed 3 of them because she wasn't paying attention or she didn't give a crap. Even on the off chance she was traveling to an experimental treatment at the Mayo Clinic to prolong her own life she has a responsibility behind the wheel. We all do, and when we don't take that responsibility seriously it can result in people dying. And any anger towards that driver (even if it is us) is totally justified. You seem to be looking for a defense of why she did it, I'd call that pretty misguided.

You're welcome to feel as justified in anger toward the driver as you'd like. You're welcome to think I'm looking for a defense of why she did it, though I'd be interested for you to find a quote from me where I said it was justified, OK or acceptable. In fact, I said she deserved to be charged. However, my point is that as is often the case, there seems to be a mob with pitchforks who want to burn the driver at the stake. I'm not walking with that mob, at least not at this point. Unless there's evidence she acted with pure malice and intent, it was an accident. An absolutely horrific one, but an accident no less. Doesn't excuse what she did (whatever it was, which we don't know), doesn't make it OK, none of that. The results of her actions were beyond disastrous...but she made a mistake (at least that's what it appears). You're absolutely right, we all have a responsibility behind the wheel and it needs to be taken seriously. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who were permanently injured, scared or dead because of a momentary lack of responsibility. And many of the people who caused those accidents were otherwise "good" people who made make a really bad decision. Many of them have a squeaky clean driving record, not even so much as a jaywalking ticket. But they make a bad judgment that ends very badly. Personally, I don't necessarily think that makes them bad people. I'm not "defending" her mistake or justifying it, but based on what we know so far it was a horrible accident. Her life is going to be ruined too. It's a tragedy for all involved.

 

[LSUmiss]

You're welcome to feel as justified in anger toward the driver as you'd like. You're welcome to think I'm looking for a defense of why she did it, though I'd be interested for you to find a quote from me where I said it was justified, OK or acceptable. In fact, I said she deserved to be charged. However, my point is that as is often the case, there seems to be a mob with pitchforks who want to burn the driver at the stake. I'm not walking with that mob, at least not at this point. Unless there's evidence she acted with pure malice and intent, it was an accident. An absolutely horrific one, but an accident no less. Doesn't excuse what she did (whatever it was, which we don't know), doesn't make it OK, none of that. The results of her actions were beyond disastrous...but she made a mistake (at least that's what it appears). You're absolutely right, we all have a responsibility behind the wheel and it needs to be taken seriously. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who were permanently injured, scared or dead because of a momentary lack of responsibility. And many of the people who caused those accidents were otherwise "good" people who made make a really bad decision. Many of them have a squeaky clean driving record, not even so much as a jaywalking ticket. But they make a bad judgment that ends very badly. Personally, I don't necessarily think that makes them bad people. I'm not "defending" her mistake or justifying it, but based on what we know so far it was a horrible accident. Her life is going to be ruined too. It's a tragedy for all involved.

Imo if she were speeding significantly that equates to gross negligence. That’s like saying a drunk driver didn’t have malice or intent. Perhaps not, but their extremely selfish decision resulted in a death (and in this case 3). I find that equally disgusting & have a hard time calling that an accident.

 

[Klayfish]

Imo if she were speeding significantly that equates to gross negligence. That’s like saying a drunk driver didn’t have malice or intent. Perhaps not, but their extremely selfish decision resulted in a death (and in this case 3). I find that equally disgusting & have a hard time calling that an accident.

Yep, there's things that rise to the level of "willful" or "wanton" negligence. We don't really know if that's the case here or not. I personally don't think it's an apt comparison to DUI, two very different things IMO. Again, for me, by definition "accident" means it wasn't done with intent. From what we know, this was not done with intent, I don't think she meant to kill 3 kids. Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean she should just walk away.

 

[LSUmiss]

Yep, there's things that rise to the level of "willful" or "wanton" negligence. We don't really know if that's the case here or not. I personally don't think it's an apt comparison to DUI, two very different things IMO. Again, for me, by definition "accident" means it wasn't done with intent. From what we know, this was not done with intent, I don't think she meant to kill 3 kids. Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean she should just walk away.

I agree we don’t know the facts yet. But, if she were significantly speeding, how is it not similar to drunk driving? Wouldn’t you agree most drunk drivers don’t set out to kill ppl either. But, they know or should know their selfish actions could have dire consequences.

 

[underdesea]

Crazy of me, I know, but I was thinking more along the lines of pleading guilty to the actual charges and accepting the consequences - without legal wrangling or looking for loopholes to reduce the negative impact on herself. It would be the decent thing, the only decent thing she could do for those families.

Actually, I wasn't speculating about finding loopholes or wrangling down charges. I was speculating that a lawyer would most likely know a jury trial would not end well for her and would advise against taking that route.

 

[sam_gordon]

Imo if she were speeding significantly that equates to gross negligence.

I think you're correct. But we don't know if she was speeding significantly. The "80mph" claim a PP said they saw on social media needs to be taken with bucket, not a grain, of salt. I challenge anyone, if they are stationary (or nearly so) which would include the bus driver and any parents dropping off kids, to be able to accurately judge how fast someone is going. Especially if the speed limit was 55, it's not unreasonable to think someone familiar with the road is probably doing over 60.

Saying "if she was speeding significantly" is no different in my eyes to those saying (me included) "if she was blinded by the sun", "if she was distracted by her kids", etc.

 

[ronandannette]

A poster mentioned upthread that she works at the church she goes to, and so she may or may not have actually been working, but could have been just speaking with her pastor, getting spiritual advice, etc.

It does seem strange that they wouldn't have just immediately taken her in though. Maybe they did, but since the investigation was still taking place and charges hadn't yet been filed, they let her leave.

Ahhh, that makes a lot more sense. The article referred to it as “her place of employment” but didn’t identify it any further.

 

[Klayfish]

I agree we don’t know the facts yet. But, if she were significantly speeding, how is it not similar to drunk driving? Wouldn’t you agree most drunk drivers don’t set out to kill ppl either. But, they know or should know their selfish actions could have dire consequences.

I completely understand what you're saying. I just see it a bit different. We don't know the facts here, so I'm not going to jump to conclusions. I don't know how fast she was going. I have an educated guess based on tons of experience, but I don't know for sure. I'm also not sure what the speed limit was. The data recorder in her truck will give indisputable evidence of speed, steering, gas, braking etc... (it won't show radio, bluetooth, etc...that has to be gathered separately). We'll likely never see that data.

The willful and wanton negligence argument can..and does...become a very grey area and it's a judgment call. Obviously, if you're doing 85mph in a 40mph zone, that's pretty clear cut. But how about 55? 50? 45? You see what I mean. I don't know enough here. In DUI, the person makes a conscious decision before they even get behind the wheel to do something that puts everyone in danger. If...and it's an "if" because we don't know...she was going at or near the speed limit...and simply made a bad judgement (pretend she looked down at her radio for a few seconds) I personally don't find it to be the same thing. There are plenty of other similar circumstances...imagine you're northbound, waiting to make a left turn and go west. There are two lanes of southbound traffic. You see the left southbound lane appears clear, but you're in a hurry and trying to check your GPS to make sure you're supposed to make that turn. You simply don't see the southbound car in the right lane and you turn directly in front of them. That driver dies. Does that make you a horrible person? That situation happens, a lot.

This is a terrible event. I've got 3 kids, including a set of twins. I can't even begin to imagine. However, don't know exactly what happened. This well could have just been a horrible accident from a sudden lack of judgment.

 

[sksjasams]

Such tragedy.

My DH is a special needs school bus driver. He said people drive past the flashing lights and stop arm all the time. They take license plate numbers and turn them in to the bus company, who gives them to the police, but I am not sure what the follow up is at that point.

 

[rajak73]

I don't know how things work in the state where this occurred, but here, it would typically take more than a moment of inattention to pass a stopped bus. They have flashing lights on the bus that are on at all times, so you notice them from quite a distance. Then they put on additional lights as they are about to stop to capture attention of vehicles closest to them to warn them. Then they stop. Then they put out the stop sign. Then they put out the arm. And only after all of that do they open the door for the children.

They start yellow lights on bus AT LEAST 300 ft from the stop, then when stopped the stop arm gets extended and the RED lights come on.

The busses here have a strobe light on top. Is that what you're referring to?

No, not the strobe lights, there are lights on each side, top of bus, BIG lights, flash yellow when bus is getting ready to stop, and then red when stop arm is extended. Here, there are red lights on the stop arm flashing too. Don't know how you could miss them at that time of morning when someone stated that the sun was not up yet.

I live on a state highway here, have seen people blow through the lights on a stopped bus. $500 dollar fine here. Wish they would enforce that more. My neighbor kids almost got hit on the highway by someone blowing the stop arm, oldest pulled the youngest out the way. Thank god she was a quick thinker and paying attention to the traffic.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

As far as the driver goes -- she's obviously responsible for these deaths. On cellphone or not, speeding or not, it doesn't matter. But I do feel some sympathy for her. I doubt she woke up yesterday morning thinking "I want to go run over 4 children." I'm going to assume it was an accident, and is something that will haunt her the rest of her life. I'm not going to dance around enjoying the fact that she's going to jail. But she still committed a crime. Those 3 children are still dead, with one critically injured.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I completely understand what you're saying. I just see it a bit different. We don't know the facts here, so I'm not going to jump to conclusions. I don't know how fast she was going.

How fast she was going does not matter. What matters is that she was going, period.

 

[anniemae]

What a horrible tragedy. Oh my goodness I am so sad for the family of those three children. That poor family, especially with the holidays coming up. I am heartbroken for them.

 

[rajak73]

The road curves, but it doesn't appear there are any blind curves or sharp turns near the bus - which I assume had not been moved at all

Looked it up on mapquest, there is a very slight curve in the road from the south, straight from the north, the curve is probable close to 1/4 mile away from where the bus was stopped. Also looked up the sunrise time, sunrise was at 8:15 and the road heads NE so sun should not have been a factor at that time. The driver of the suv should have been able to see the flashing lights from quite a ways away. Even if the lights were flashing yellow, that means the bus is about to stop to pick up passengers.

 

[zoo2tycoon]

Yesterday here in Indiana the weather was good also- no rain or fog. As I stated earlier and poster above me looked up the sun didn’t rise until about 815. Leaves have not dropped so there appeared to be no leaves in the roadway either.

The road does have a curve but not a sharp one- from seeing the video on the news.

Two families have been changed forever - people need to slow down and be cautious. We all know busses are out there!